Suggestions on my aspiring Riv-style build?

[Raymond Henderson]

Hello All,

First time poster, but I've been lurking for a few weeks now and really enjoy seeing the community you have here and all of your beautiful bikes.

I was hoping to gauge some opinions or get some suggestions from some of you on a Riv-style build that I am hoping to put together soon. Unfortunately, I'm not currently in a financial position to own a real Rivendell, but because I have such an affinity for the style of bikes and philosophy behind them, I'm planning on building something that can play the role until the day comes that I can have the real deal.

Presently, I am choosing between two bikes that are listed for sale in my area: one is a 1983 Specialized Expedition and the other is a 1992 Bridgestone XO-2.

In one corner, we have one of the most well-renowned, production touring bikes ever made, and in the other, a brainchild of the man himself. Ultimately, I don't feel like I could go wrong with either, but I wanted to present this to you fine people to see if you have any thoughts or have experience with either or both of these bikes.

Because I already have a road bike that I would be more inclined to take for longer, faster rides, the purpose of this bike would mainly be for commuting and more leisurely rides around town with my partner. It would be outfitted with racks, fenders, and a dynamo set up. Also, regardless of whether I decide to go with the Expedition or not, I am planning on using some kind of upright or swept-back bars. Basically this: https://www.flickr.com/photos/35377964@N06/3337138600/in/album-72157614731857771/

Given that both bikes are my size and both cost around the same price, my pro/con list looks something like this: for the Expedition, it was not designed to ridden as more of a hybrid and so might not handle the way I would like with up-right bars. The XO-2 was, but it doesn't have some of the feature that I like in the Expedition (internal wiring for the dynamo, loooooong chainstays, mid-fork eyelets for the front rack, and of course a lugged frame without a unicrown fork--looks matter!). For the XO-2, I like the wider tires even if they are 26'. It might mean going a little slower, but this bike isn't being built for speed, and the added comfort of the larger tires would be nice. And then of course, it was actually designed by Grant Petersen to do the kind of riding that I'm describing. If my goal is to create a faux Rivendell, compromising with a prototypical version makes a lot of sense, but I would hate to be the person who sacrifices overall quality for the sake of some kind of cult appeal (even if I have bought in to a certain degree already).

I'm open to any thoughts that you all might have and would love to hear about experiences with one or both of these bicycles.

Thanks,

Ray

[Drw]

I haven’t owned an xo-2, but I did have a 1983 expedition. Tire clearance was tighter than I was happy with. I think I could barely fit 38s, no fender room, and very close at the chainstays.

I’d definitely choose the XO over the expedition for anything mixed terrainy.

All that said, both are nice bikes that I’m sure would be suitable. Also you might think about flipping a few Of these nicer pedigree vintage bikes to make a riv happen.

[Joe Bernard]

I would start with the bar you're going to use, then match it to the toptube length it will work with. The Expedition is nominally a dropbar bike and you show one with Moustache Bar, which is a similar reach situation and should work. But of you're going for more of a "3-speed bar" situation like Albatross or Billie then that bike might get too cramped.

If the XO-2 is longer saddle-to-bars that's better for sweptback. Another benefit on that one is the parts will be more modern and will fit the new bars well with maybe longer cables.

[masmojo]

Having owned an XO-1 for 23 years, I would tell you that the XO-2 is probably quicker than you are giving it credit for. I would definitely go for the XO-2!!!!!!
No question

Bridgestone has cult appeal for a reason, just like Surlys or Crusts have cult appeal, because they bring something unique to the table. It's not just hype. If it were an XO-3 or 4 maybe the other would be better?

[greenteadrinkers]

Tough choice. 

Personally, I'd get the XO-2, seem's to have more of the "fun" baked into the DNA. Kinda perfect for all things local on or off road.

Not sure what the world has to offer in regards to 26" tires these days, something to consider.

IMO, save the $$$ and get a Cygolite, a rim brake 26" dyno wheel might not have the best ROI, esp. if you plan to move to a Riv. down the road. You could always mount the Cygolite low to the front  fork with https://www.paulcomp.com/shop/components/mounting-solutions/light-mounts/gino-light-mount/ and as far as front racks go, maybe this might work?: https://www.rivbike.com/collections/racks/products/wald-bosco-basket That way you get a basket and a light, all for like around $200, and the basket is easy on easy off, sometimes you just don't want to live life surrounded by racks, aesthetics aside..., and fork crown aesthetics aside....I think I'd get the Specialized if I wanted to put in a lot of big paved miles carrying a lot of stuff.

Just my 2 cents.

Scott

[Patrick Moore]

Oh, and I hear distant scuttlebutt that Rene Herse is working on a light, supple, and of course very expensive 26" knobby.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 11:31 AM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

Among a variety whose abundance surprised me, the ineffably nice Rene Herse Elk Pass (~28 mm tho' labeled 32), the Naches Pass (42, labeled 1.8") and the Rat Trap Pass (~50 I think, tho labeled 2.3"). Also Pasela in 42, labeled 1.75", and Tioga makes a 42 I think.

My new 26" wheel road bike Chauncey #2 is even as we speak having the fork rebuilt to give proper space under fork crown and fender for a 45, with the idea that I can use a Naches Pass if I decide I want something fatter than the Elk Pass.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 11:25 AM greenteadrinkers <greentea...@gmail.com> wrote:

... Not sure what the world has to offer in regards to 26" tires these days, something to consider.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

[greenteadrinkers]

A little digging around, this Flickr stream showcasing a XO-2 built a few ways, looks fun.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/134363652@N03/36132440922/in/photostream/

[Nathan Mattia]

Hey Ray, 

Until a few months ago, I had both a 1993 XO-2 and a 1983 Expedition in my stable.  I sold the XO-2 when I got my Sam Hillborne in March and I’ve never looked back.  The X0-2 definitely felt speedier, but my actual ride times in my 9-mile loop around my part of St. Louis showed the Expedition usually winning out.  I built both up with Albatross bars.  Make sure you get a longer stem than I had for my XO-2.

At the end of the day, the Expedition always felt a lot more solid and required far fewer adjustments.  Everything just worked, which I found amazing on a 37 year old bike.  I had racks on both at different times.  The Expedition never even blinked.  Just kept rolling like a Cadillac.  The XO could get squirrely with a load.  

Expedition

https://flic.kr/p/2gCLXTc

XO-2

https://flic.kr/p/2gCopwN

[Clark Fitzgerald]

It sounds like you're on a budget, and you know what bike you *actually* want. In 2007 I wanted a touring bike, but the Rivendell's seemed too expensive. I've spent thousands of dollars going through 5-7 different bikes and frames, wheeling and dealing, swapping stuff, upgrading components, never really satisfied. Now in 2020, I bought the bike I should have purchased in the first place. I wish that I would've just bit the bullet and bought the right bike in the beginning. That money spent along the way seems like a waste now, but it did help develop my tastes.

If you do buy a bike I would get the one that has the most similar sized components and geometry to your dream bike, so that eventually you can just move the parts to a new frame. That's why I still have a very nice 26" handbuilt dynamo wheelset. Wanna buy it? :)

[Ginz]

Which hubs? ;)

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Hi Ray,
Your current scenario echoes one of mine from several years ago and I would also caution you on the potential growth of expense in upgrading this or that. Reflecting on my own progression the hands on learning that came with all my parts swapping is invaluable but came at a hefty cumulative price tag when all was said and done. I ultimately purchased a complete Rivendell Clem Smith Jr. when the 65cm became available for pre-order. The irony is that I’d have been able to buy the real deal sooner had I not spent all my time and funds tweaking my old MTB, but I’d have been less informed and potentially less happy had I not waited for the Clem.

You don’t specify what parts you do or do not already have nor what specific Riv model you are most drawn to, but if this entire project is beginning from scratch I’d suggest outlining your parts wishlist (bars, racks, etc.) and adding up costs.

In my case I had a stash of spare parts but still needed 29er wheels for the Clem. The presale complete gave me the better value vs Clem frame and separate purchase of new wheel set/cranks and time to figure out the rest of the build.

Lots to think about and I have no experience to offer with the Expedition or XO series but will confirm building your own could be very fun and rewarding just be prepared to absorb sunk costs even if you end up flipping this or that to work your way up to an eventual Rivendell frame.

Best,
Brian Cole

[Surlyprof]

I had similar experiences as Clark did. I went through bikes by Surly, Bianchi and SOMA trying to outfit them as Riv-like country bikes. I spent a few thousand dollars upgrading parts on each bike and never achieved the ride quality I had experienced test riding Rivs. I eventually sold all those bikes at a substantial loss and finally bought the Hillborne I should have bought initially. 8 or 9 years later, I still own (and love) my canti-Hillborne which is dialed in to my personal tastes (learned from the other bikes) Although I also bought a dedicated mtb a couple of years later, I still like throwing on my trail wheelset and taking the Hillborne out on fire trails. It is by far the most comfortable bike I’ve ever owned. I can’t see ever replacing it.

John
Niles, CA

[Ray]

@Clark I really appreciate the advice, and having already had several bikes come and go that just didn't quite fit the bill, I know you're right. I could certainly scrimp and save or add to a bike fund by flipping some vintage restorations as another user suggested, to pull the cash together for the dream bike. But I guess what I mean when I say that I'm not in a position to afford it isn't just that I couldn't get the money but that even if I did, there's no way I could bring myself to drive something so valuable through the salt and snow on my commutes or lock it up while I pick up groceries or go to the bar. I would just worry about it constantly. And since I really only have room for one commuter/all 'rounder at the moment I think I'm going to keep it something just nice enough that I enjoy riding it but not so nice that I'm stressed about it when out of sight. Maybe that's the wrong philosophy though? Would love to hear from others who do see their Rivs as commuters.

And as for the dynamo wheelset, lol thanks for the offer but I already have a hub and light. I just need to get around to lacing it up. Maybe some time next week.

[Ray]

As I mentioned in my last attempted response, me replies are still being moderated so it's difficult for me to engage with the conversation here as quickly as I'd like to. In any case, thanks for the link to the flickr photos @greenteadrinkers. That is definitely the right idea. Unfortunately, mine is the '92 XO-2 so I don't have the lugged frame and fork of the '93 pictured there. This (with swept back bars):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanadventureleaguepdx/26906965191

is another bit of inspiration for what I'm going for, though I talked with the owner of this bike and he told me he did have a custom fork made--not sure I can make such a commitment, but it certainly looks nice...

On Thursday, August 6, 2020 at 2:08:45 PM UTC-5 greenteadrinkers wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

I know one person who thinks you should ride a Riv through salt and snow and lock it up outside the bar, it's Grant. He designs them to be used and is famously appalled to see an older one in showroom condition.

Forget dumping money into an old Bridgestone or Specialized, find a new or used Clem, Hillborne, Appaloosa or Atlantis and ride it everywhere!

[Patrick Moore]

This is the story of my life, circa 1990 until circa 2012 (tho' the bike building begins far earlier; built my first bike from scratch -- bought frame and scavenged parts in high summer -- Nov/Dec, southern hemisphere! -- 1970). Buy cheap, upgrade at huge cost, sell cheaper, repeat until you have spent a great deal of $$ and the lesson has sunk in.

Now I am in the enviable position of owning only bikes that are customs or ones selected and refurbished according to my own wishes. It would have been cheaper to go custom from the beginning -- except for the fact that I learned what I want by making all those mistaken upgrades in the first place.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 9:06 AM Surlyprof <jmcc...@gmail.com> wrote:

... I went through bikes by Surly, Bianchi and SOMA trying to outfit them as Riv-like country bikes.  I spent a few thousand dollars upgrading parts on each bike and never achieved the ride quality I had experienced test riding Rivs.  I eventually sold all those bikes at a substantial loss and finally bought the Hillborne I should have bought initially.  

[Clark Fitzgerald]

Shimano DH-3N72 Dynamo, Deore XT rear. Alex rims set up tubeless with Compass Rat Trap Pass tires. Also a BM taillight and a Schmidt Edelux II internally wired in a Pass and Stow rack. Everything is 1 year old. Make me an offer.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 5:41 AM Ginz <the...@gmail.com> wrote:

Which hubs? ;)

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[Clark Fitzgerald]

I think having a comfortable "beater grade" bike that you don't have to worry about is an excellent idea. You just have to resist the temptation to swap parts and upgrade! I've never been able to. ;)

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[S]

I agree. If you plan to ride the bike through "salt and snow" and lock it up outside public buildings, then it makes sense to use a less expensive frame.

As for the XO-2 versus Expedition, I prefer the looks of the the Expedition, but, again, for "salt and snow," the XO-2 may be the better choice, as it can take wider tires. The tight clearance on the Expedition could be frustrating. And the XO-2 still looks nice, eg,

https://www.cycleexif.com/bridgestone-xo-2

Grant Petersen designed the XO-2 for his own mixed surface commute, so in a way, it's really a commuter bike, which is what you are after.

[Ray]

Thanks for the sound advise, everyone. You've given me a lot to think about. I'm sure I will make some upgrades to the XO-2, but I will keep things reasonable and not make any additions that couldn't be easily migrated to a future Atlantis should that day ever come. Who knows, maybe a used one in my size with pop-up for a good price...

-Ray

[Joe Bernard]

I don't think I caught your size but maybe this could work. Says he'll ship.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/bik/d/santa-cruz-rivendell-atlantis-2-51cm/7168591492.html

[Ray]

Hey Joe,

Thanks for looking out. Unfortunately, that would be far too small for me. As for sizing, I'm not 100% sure as I've never had the opportunity to test drive a Riv, but I have a PBH of about 86 cm, so according to their charts 56-58 would be for me, but it's hard to know for sure

[Nathan Mattia]

If you find yourself near St. Louis, Your welcome to test (and haggle over? My 56cm 1983 Expedition w an Albatross setup. 

-Nathan Mattia

“I saw a tiger. Now I understand. I saw a tiger and the tiger saw a man.”

On Aug 14, 2020, at 9:44 AM, Ray <rah...@g.clemson.edu> wrote:



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