A College Clem

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who doesn’t ride, sigh). 

My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of saying… 

Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 

I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.

I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey through undergrad together.

I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…

Leah

[Leah Peterson]

Here are the first pics. The grips and pedals are in the mail. 

A truer picture of the blue paint.

Swapping parts from his old 52 to the “Big Bike”

Are these good photos? No. Have you tried taking photos of your teenager lately? They frown upon it. You get good at stealth photos.

Don’t you think it fits him nicely? Up next: wheels, dyno, a rear rack and basket and fenders. 

On Aug 5, 2023, at 10:56 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who doesn’t ride, sigh). 

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[lucky...@gmail.com]

Don’t do it. I used to work on a college campus and the reality is, bikes are stolen like crazy, campuses are targeted by bike thieves, college kids are busy and forgetful and all it takes is one careless lockup and it’s (or parts of it’s)  gone. 

I don’t believe there’s any way to keep a nice bike like a Clem safe or intact on a college campus.

Get a big steel 90’s MTB and put a Sunlite fake Albatross on it. 

Just my .02

Congratulations to you for guiding your son towards the next phase of his life! 

On Aug 5, 2023, at 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who doesn’t ride, sigh). 

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[Sarah Carlson]

Such a beautiful bike and kind of lovely to see him on his grandpa's frame. Looks like it fits him really well. I have no good insight into this, other than it would be really sad to see that bike turn into a "garage queen" when he looks so natural on it. Is there room for him to stash this gorgeous bike for pleasure riding and also keep a beater for all the student activities?

[Curtis McKenzie]

Our children both had their bicycles stolen.  One child had two bicycles taken.  They were hurt even though the bicycles were "beater" bicycles as they liked the cheap bicycles.

Save the Clem for when the child is at home and so he will come home to ride the Clem.

The child will be expanding their universe greatly during the first year of college.  Save them a bit of responsibility by sending in the "beater" at least for the first year.

Peace,

Curtis

One outta Grad School

One a third year Medical Student

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[Matthew Williams]

Don’t do it!

The college towns in which I’ve lived—and currently live—have a terrible problem with bike theft. I frequently see cut locks and stripped frames in the racks outside the dorms, apartment complexes, and university villages, and certain streets in this college town are littered with sad piles of disassembled frames, wheels, and miscellaneous parts.

Get a beater bike he won’t have to worry about when he locks it up outdoors. My college beater bike got me around campus even though it was badly neglected: I nad neither the time nor the money to spend on it . . . but I never had to worry about it being stolen.

He shouldn’t have to worry about his heirloom Clem, and he’ll be heartbroken when it’s stolen. Keep it safe in the garage, and save it for when he graduates. 

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[Josiah Anderson]

I'm going to go against others' strong opinions here. It probably depends on where exactly he's going, but a Riv can be fine on a college campus if he's careful. My Crust and Rivendell have both survived college campus life at the University of Montana with me. I've had to use all sorts of creativity for keeping them inside in Montana winters; they've ended up under my bed, hanging in a closet, in the garage at work, in my living room in the house I live in now, and the list goes on and on. When leaving them locked up, my thinking is that they don't look like fancy modern bikes that would be attractive to theives, and if they are locked well (I usually use two u-locks if leaving for more than a couple hours) then the theives will go for the abundance of basic modern mountain bikes locked with cables instead. It's worked well for me for the past three years, and I know several others who have ridden nice bikes on college campuses for many years. Lock it up well, don't completely ignore it and it'll be fine. And if it's not, then at least it was being loved and not just sitting around.

Josiah Anderson

Missoula, MT

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[Kim H.]

DON'T DO IT !

I am collectively in the same thought as the others before my post. Save the Clem Smith Jr. "L"  for after his college years for him to thoroughly appreciate it, as a graduation present.  

Yes, the likelihood of it getting stolen is very high in a college setting. Buy him a second hand bicycle to ride to college. If it does get stolen, you will be heart-broken and have a very difficult time forgiving yourself for allowing him to ride the Clem to college. 

Rivendell bicycles are very special and their owners treat them well with the utmost care.

*The Clem will not fit on the bicycle rack of a transit bus. It is nearly 80" long.*

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Luke Hendrickson]

Do it!!! What a way for him to think of your father and remember him. 

[Bill Schairer]

I'll take the middle ground.  Let him get the lay of the land before making a decision.

[Johnny Alien]

I know nothing about college theft BUT if he is relying on bus transportation as well I am 99.9% positive that a Clem that size won't work with their racks. If thats the case then more often than not the bike won't get used. Side note...judging by photos the 59 Clem looks like a really good fit. Side, side note...congrats to both you and your kid!! 

[Richard Rose]

First, what an awesome story. What a lucky & no doubt deserving young man. And oh, what a beautiful big Clem. That said & having started my cycling life @ University in the ‘70’s, I would take something like this to college.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 6, 2023, at 9:35 AM, Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> wrote:

I know nothing about college theft BUT if he is relying on bus transportation as well I am 99.9% positive that a Clem that size won't work with their racks. If thats the case then more often than not the bike won't get used. Side note...judging by photos the 59 Clem looks like a really good fit. Side, side note...congrats to both you and your kid!! 

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[Mike Davis]

I've spent over 30 years on college campuses and 20 of those with an Atlantis. If I ride to work, it stays in my office until I leave. I have seen literally hundreds of bikes stripped and stolen. If you can't keep it indoors,my advice is a 80-90s steel MTB frame that fits. 

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[Jay Lonner]

Another consideration is the climate where your son will be attending college. Road salt is a good way to trash a bike, or at least the drivetrain. It happened to my XO-1 after my first winter in Wisconsin — after that I road a sacrificial beater.

My oldest daughter went to college in sunny LA and I bought her a used Trek that lasted for a few years before it got stolen. 

There’s also an argument to be made that we get too hung up on attachment to material things. If you can embrace the mindset that it’s just a bike, and that bikes are meant to be ridden and can always be replaced, then that renders all of the above moot. 

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Aug 6, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Mike Davis <jmda...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mathias Steiner]

I'm with the majority here: don't do it. What's the upside? You didn't say what his major is, but if it's anything that requires his full attention, the bike is for getting around, not primarily enjoyment. If it won't require that, why go at all?

This suggestion is valid:

>> I've had to use all sorts of creativity for keeping them inside

but that's like having another job, especially if it isn't a dry climate. Wet bike indoors = no fun. Ask me how I know.

When our daughter went to college, way back in 2017, I got her a Trek 830 in the usual condition and hung fenders on it and oiled the chain. Problem solved. Add a U-lock, and miracle of miracles, she still has it and it stayed with us when she moved out. For her birthday this year, I spruced it up, got Schwalbe Marathons and built a dyno front wheel for it, and now she locks it up in her apartment carport. Four weeks later, some yatz stole the saddle and post. Not thinking, I had left the quick release on, b/c who would want a cheap take-off saddle?e. That's when I remembered we live in a college town, too ;)

With the COVID bike boom over and cheap mountain bikes everywhere, I don't see the upside of taking a $2k+ bike to college. Let him do the minimal wrenching required to get the bike in fighting shape. Taking his  late Grandpa's bike doesn't make sense to me -- he'll want to hold on to that for life, no?

cheers -mathias

[Bill Lindsay]

Leah

I think I share most of the attitudes of the people shouting "Don't do it!"  But, I think there's some nuance behind it.  

That nuance is this: If you send your child to college with a bicycle, PLAN on that bicycle being stolen.  Since you are planning on that bike being stolen, what will you do next?  Will you buy another Clem for him?  Or will you say "well, that sucked, let's get a craigslist beater!"  If you want to plan on buying a replacement Clem every time his Clem gets stolen, then absolutely send him to college with a Clem!  He'll always be on a nice bike.  If the number of bikes he goes through is 5, or 3, or 7, who cares?  He's always on a bike he likes!  

If, on the other hand, you'd rather those stolen bikes hurt less (emotionally and financially) THEN preserve the Clem and set up a beater.  You've got a great eye for bikes now, even though you need to pay mechanics for some services.  I bet you could do a great job of curating a beater for your son, but if you do, plan on that also getting stolen someday.  

If you had a crystal ball and knew that your son is going to go through 3 bikes in college, what would you do?  Whatever that something is, that's what I'd recommend.  I had a blast curating my son's college beater, and it's still in our possession.  My daughter has a tiny hand-me-down mountain bike from an aunt, and she's using that as a college beater, but she's more of a public transportation person.  Still, I count on that bike being stolen someday.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Brent Knepper]

I agree with Bill's sentiments above. Clem at college would be so enjoyable for your son, if that is worth the risk that others have shared their fears/experiences thoroughly now.

I dunno how the timing would work out, but with the upcoming Chicago rbw ride you're organizing you could chat up Chucky at Mack's in Evanston. He's got a fun hustle of Riv'ing up older mtbs (more on that on his IG account: https://www.instagram.com/marygoldcyclery/) that may scratch the itch for riv flavor without the risk to the Clem.

Brent in Chicago (and hoping I can join da rbw ride coming up)

[Eric Daume]

I'm going to join the majority and say don't send the Clem to college. IF* your boy needs a bike at school, buy a cheap hybrid, new or used. Bike shops are desperate to sell anything right now, and the used market is also oversaturated. 

*It's been a long time since I was at college, but even as a bike loving kid, I didn't ride my bike to classes. Too much hassle, too much risk. It was easier to navigate crowded campus paths by walking, even though I had one or two bikes tucked into my tiny dorm room.

Eric

Plain City, OH

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[Ryan]

What others have said....

BUT a Clem could go to college if...in an ideal world

If he's living on-campus they're not going to fuss if he brings it inside his room at night to avoid leaving it locked up outside and creating ample opportrunity for theft...and maybe don't take the Clem bar-hopping

If the college is car-free maybe they have some sort of infrastructure set up for secure bike locking on campus...maybe there's some student-driven bike valet system...or your son could find like-minded folks on-campus to initiate something like that for secure lockup at the library or class buildings. Where I live in Winnipeg, the University of Winnipeg even has indoor locking facilities for a fee...but it's a downtown campus with a small footprint; you can easily hoof it from class to class. A large state campus, I imagine, not so much

In the absence of things like this , I'm afraid , a stealth beater that's actually fun to ride is the way to go

[Leah Peterson]

Lots of good points were made here, and I’m grateful you took the time, All. 

We still have a year left with our son, and the Clem will hopefully get lots of use here, for now. One of the Riv Riders on this forum is a professor at our university of choice (no, we aren’t certain my son is going there yet) and he gives some good marks regarding bike culture and theft there. So, lots to think about.

Meanwhile, we’re prettying the bike up with some colorful parts and planning an adventure or two with it.

Thanks again!

Leah

On Aug 6, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Ryan <ryte...@mts.net> wrote:

What others have said....

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[Roberta]

This is really tough.  A lot has to do with where he is going and how much he will be using the bike.  Someone above said to get the lay of the land before deciding.  I kept my bike vertical in my dorm room, but it was outside and locked up when I went to work or class; even a long bike like his doesn't need to take up that much room (or keep it behind the bed).    Johnny above said that the Clem L will be too long for bus racks.  I can attest that my 55cm Platypus is too long for bus racks and Amtrak, if he needs those transportation options.  From a purely logical perspective, get a beater.

However, I know you (and you'll have to ask your son).  How much joy is he going to get riding a nice bike to class and thinking of his grandfather when he does?  How much will he be heartbroken IF the bike disappears?  If a lot of joy, get him Dynolights so you'll know he's able to be seen, Hexlocks on the wheel set, saddle and seat post and two really good U-locks.  Take the bags off the bike when parked.  Teach him good and bad ways to lock up the bike. Show him what to look for (like unbolted bike stands and cut thru lock-to bars). Get good pictures of it and register for it on bike registry sites.  Hide an air tag.   Just make it harder to steal.  

Although I'm sure you'll be heartbroken IF the bike disappears, since it was your Dad's originally, you can physically replace it.

Roberta

[Ryan]

One thing, Leah...and believe me ,no offense meant, but I know your penchant for pretty things😊 If that bike goes to college, you might want to dial down the bling. Just sayin'. In this wicked world, it's stressful owning nice things. Your son SHOULD be able to ride his lovely Clem to college, but I would just hate to think of it being stolen  for both your sakes. Especially given the history of the bike....so I'm leaning into the nice but understated beater more and more...worked for me when I was still commuting before I retired. My beater was the old battle-scarred, but still elegant PX-10

[Russell Duncan]

I'm currently building a bike for a good friend's son who is going off to college. It's a mid-1990s Mercian. Its going to Boston. I'm having second thoughts and thinking of just giving him the cash and telling him to buy a decent enough beater off of the local Craigslist, and having a LBS replace the chain and giving it a maintenance once over. Currently, I've installed pit locks, replacing the skewers and seat post bolt. I've also install Ezy MKS pedals that he can remove between classes and carry in his daypack. All parts are used, low to mid range and do not match. The locks and chain will be Kryptonite's New York lock standard. Heavy, yes, but probably the best available. these locks will at least frustrate would be thieves. I'm hoping that he'll be able to keep it in his dorm with him overnight. 

Russell Duncan

Saratoga, WY

[Matt Beecher]

I'm sorry to say that I think it will get stolen.  I took a bike to college and enough parts were stolen off of it to make it unusable within the first year.  It wasn't even a desirable bike or parts.  

I wish you good luck if you try this.  

Best regards,

Matt in Oswego

[Max S]

When I was a kid, I had a Specialized Ascent (?) MTB stolen from an apartment complex parking "garage". I had bought that bike with my paper route & other kid job money, so it really hurt! In grad school, I also had an XT seatpost & Ti Flite saddle stolen from my MB2 parked in front of a campus building at 8 am in the morning. In the first case, the thief snipped through a simple cable. In the second case, the thief used the seat quick release. These experiences taught me to use better locks and to replace QRs with bolts.

I've owned decent bikes in college and grad school, and I have worked on a college campus for nearly two decades, and have parked my bike on campus. When I did use my nice MTB in college, I'd take off the front wheel and lock it together with the frame and rear wheel to a post. When I ride my nice bike to campus now, I protect my Brooks saddle and Nitto post and Phil Wood wheels with some security bolts, and use a good lock.

But I also don't park my bike outside overnight, and I don't ride around in the slush much, without cleaning the bike after the ride. 

So, I think a lot is going to depend on the kid and their particular living situation, degree of awareness, and the kinds of activities they get up to in college... What if they want to ride dirt roads and coffeeneur on Wednesday mornings with the local bikies, instead of partying late at night and going to football games? What if they want to ride down to the farmers market for fresh veggies instead of eating crappy pizza 7 days a week, or hit up the handmade ice cream shop downtown after a day of studying for finals?.. Wouldn't it be nice to have a good bike on hand that can carry some apples and books and have lights for the way back when it gets dark? These bikes are meant to be used and are designed well for that.

- Max "if it ain't got disc brakes, not many thieves will want it" in A2

[Joe Bernard]

I'm with Max on this. It's a good bike designed to be used as a commuter/shopper/cruiser, and not so maddeningly expensive that it can't be replaced* if need be. 

*Yes I realize this is relative and a Clem isn't cheap by 'Walmart bike' standards. I'm talking in terms I can relate to, i.e., my custom would be a huge expense to replace if lost, a Clem would be a bummer but not end of the world. YRMV. 

Joe Bernard 

[Patrick Moore]

It's fast, isn't it? I recall your bike-trains to school. My baby daughter turned 22 in June -- I told an acquaintance at church yesterday carrying his just-churched newborn girl that in 20 years he will still be counseling, encouraging, guiding, correcting, and paying for the child.

A Clem at college: I did some desultory research about bikes at Northwestern (daughter) and UMich Ann Arbor (boyfriend) and in each case theft is a real problem. Me, I'd not risk a nice Rivendell outside at even a good university.

Back in ~2000 when I was a baby-faced 45-year-old MBA student at UNM I commuted on a beater (nice beater!) fixed gear -- 1966 Bertin World Champion or somesuch -- with decent but still entirely unfashionable wheels and parts, but this was just before the fixie fad and the bike was weird enough and the frame scratched and scuffed enough that no one bothered it when locked with a Kryptonite lock. Also, I was a day student and left my bike on the racks for only a few hours at a time in daylight. 

On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 8:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who doesn’t ride, sigh). 

My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of saying… 

Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 

I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.

I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey through undergrad together.

I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…

Leah

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

The boy will think of his grandfather with nostalgia and love and think of the bike with regret and bitterness because it was stolen within the first 48 hours.

BUT!!! I recall a Blahg post or posts where Grant described his then-college-attending daughter's campus Clem. Why not ask Grant?

[Bill Schaefer]

Throwing in my two cents as someone who had a bike on campus all 4 years of college. I always brought it into my dorm room when I was there, and just kept it locked outside of classes during the day. it can be a bit cramped in the dorm room with a bike in there, but I always made it work. Never had an issue with theft, but I was also at a pretty rural college (Uconn),and I'm sure that location plays a huge part in it. It's not the worst idea to send him off with a used 90's mountain bike or something similar, that would be much less of a blow if stolen - but I couldn't imagine being at school without a bike. Such an efficient way to travel everywhere.

[Eric Daume]

A Clem with a dyno hub and a few accessories is a $2500 machine. That’s pretty expensive by most any standard. 

Eric

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[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I think Grant sent his older daughter to school in Minneapolis with a red Glorius. I think she made it halfway through college with it but it was finally stolen after she locked it to a chain link fence. https://bikepirates.livejournal.com/3520587.html?

I did email Grant and ask his opinion. And I really do wonder what that is, since he has also recently written about not being precious about a bike. No response yet. 

Yes, the time flies. You think you have a luxurious 18 years to love and enjoy them; they get more interesting and more fun every year. But suddenly they are 17 and threatening to graduate and exist out of eyesight, separate from you. He has been the best boy I ever could have dreamed up, and now he’s leaving and I can barely take it, so happy has he made me. I suppose this is why I want to send him off with the best of what I have to give. Even if it might be thief bait.

Crying in my coffee, starting now and ending sometime late 2024,

Leah

[Patrick Moore]

I'll toss this out, FWIW, which may not be much, but: for a year or so (sophomore/jr years) my daughter got around campus on a longboard, compact enough to haul into the lecture hall, until her project responsibilities with bulky kit made it impracticable. But books fit in backpacks and the campus and town are/is relatively compact (NWU, Evanston, IL).

[Doug H.]

I've been following this thread/discussion and it really is a bit of a downer. Reality bites. Theft is rampant on college campuses I guess although I was a commuter student (car) for most of my college years so didn't witness or even hear about crime on campus back in the late '80s. I didn't live on campus. I'm sure I was just oblivious to it.

Based on this thread I would have to lean toward the 'don't take a relatively expensive bicycle to college' crowd. 

Doug

[Piaw Na]

I went to college at Cal Berkeley. My first bike in the USA, a $50 walmart special, got stolen my first year while I was attending a lecture at Warren Hall. After that pain, I never had a bike stolen again, since I learned to lock the bike properly and bring it into my house/apartment overnight. I submit that the Clem should be the second bike your son rides in college. 

[christian poppell]

  TL;DR

• I disagree... Clem College Cruiser FTW!
• Properly lock it up with multiple locks to a secure rack
• don't leave it in one spot outside more than a day, less if the spot sees high traffic
• Revert it to stock/cheap(but cheerful) configuration
• make it uGly to thieves, duct tape, spray paint (over the duct tape), stickers, used parts. 
• understand the responsibility of caring for a bike on campus and the possibility that despite your sons best effort, it still could get stolen
• If the thought of losing this specifc clem is too much, get a used or new Clem that you don't have an emotional attachment to

Hey Leah,

I'll be a voice of dissent, I rode a precious to me bicycle through college (Gainesville, FL), locking it up both outside at a dorm room. on errands to the store, and outside the architecture building where I spent most of my time. Later, it spent time locked up outside the Ashby BART station in Berkeley while it was at work.

Most of the bike theft that happened on campus was due to bicycles being left in one spot too long. A thief will grab a wheel or a saddle and from there, the bike begins losing parts left and right, like a dead whale at the bottom of the ocean. The other thefts that happened were due to poor locks or incorrect locking.

I think if the Clem were dressed down to less expensive parts and became less pretty it could work. Pitlocks, ball bearings glued into allen heads, and hose clamps all make great deterrents as does tape, stickers, and other adornments (helps save the paint too). Multiple quality U locks properly used should be enough deterrent to a casual thief. The question to your son would be if that kind of responsibility is something he is up for? One of the great things about going away to school is being immersed in the culture and having the flexibility to do new things with new people. Worrying about your bike being stolen can put a damper on those experiences.

At the end of the day, if someone recognises the bike and wants to take it they will; even quality locks are easy to cut with the right tools. The good news is that the giant Clem is a very "cool" bike to most people.

One additional solution is to get a pre owned or new Clem that you have less history with, won't sting as much if it does get nicked. Grant and Co. designed the Clem to be a bike one could do everything on and not be precious about.

There's a metaphor here about loving something and letting it go and the freedom that comes when we separate ourselves from the items that we own but this is getting long.

Christian
Phoenix, AZ

PS: The only things that happened to the bike while outside was people putting garbage in my basket (cups, wrappers) and someone unraveled half my bar tape which was fine because it was time for new tape anyway.   

[Junes]

I agree with Christian’s general message. 

If the young man does end up taking the bike to college, make sure he locks it properly and redundantly. 

Whenever I lock a Rivendell to a rack, I lock the heck out of it. I’m talking three U locks and a thick cable lock. It’s a pain, you have to find the right kind of rack to accommodate all the locks, and it means carrying an extra weight. The additional few seconds a thief would have to spend dealing with the locks might be enough deterrent. 

Yes to Pitlocks, too. With a couple of extra keys. 

There are no guarantees, even with the crazy number of locks I use. I’m not sure how else to integrate the bikes into daily life, though. 

I had a bike stolen from my front lawn when I was a kid, and another one in college. It’s a horrible feeling no matter how cheap or fancy the bike is. The college experience taught me that you have to make it onerous for a thief, and you can’t ever be lax about it. 

Also, be sure to insure the bike! As a college student his property might still be covered under his parents’ homeowners policy. My college bike was. Best to check to make sure. 

Jim

On Aug 7, 2023, at 18:09, christian poppell <smo...@gmail.com> wrote:

  TL;DR

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[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

Whenever I lock a Rivendell to a rack, I lock the heck out of it. I’m talking three U locks and a thick cable lock. It’s a pain, you have to find the right kind of rack to accommodate all the locks, and it means carrying an extra weight. The additional few seconds a thief would have to spend dealing with the locks might be enough deterrent. 

If I had to carry 3 U-locks and thick cable locks, why not just ride a heavy cheap used clunker? I remember someone once suggested the theorum that all bicycles + locks weigh the same (the light bike had to have a heavier lock). I once rode my Heron Touring bike in New Hampshire where I met cycling author Marty Basch. He and I walked into a restaurant for lunch, leaving our expedition-style loaded touring bikes in front of the restaurant unlocked. After a 2 hour lunch we walked back out and he looked at our bikes and said: "Darn. The bikes are still there. I guess we have to keep riding." (https://blog.piaw.net/2009/06/new-england-2000-bike-trip.html)

I take the approach that if I have to worry that much about my bike being stolen, I should start to worry about my personal safety as well. Here in the Bay Area there have been stories of bicyclists riding their bikes being forced to hand over their bikes at gunpoint and left stranded in the hills: https://www.berkeleyscanner.com/2023/06/23/crime/oakland-bikejacking-bike-robberies/

[Kim H.]

@Piaw -

Oh my goodness ! How terrible that is being forced at gunpoint to hand over your bicycle and being left stranded. Unbelievable. I am glad I do not live there anymore. I moved away decades ago not too far from you, near Cuesta Drive in Mountain View, California.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

I'm 2 long blocks from Cuesta Drive. I'm pretty sure if this happened in MTV or Sunnyvale the police wouldn't be unresponsive. I have no idea why Oakland and San Francisco don't consider a holdup at gunpoint worth getting a search warrant over.

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[Kim H.]

@Piaw -

I lived on Sladky Avenue between Springer and Fordham Way to be more specific.

Kim Hetzel.

[Bill Gibson]

All things are things. They pass on, as we all do. The experience using the thing is more important than the thing. He, and we, will learn from whatever thing he rides. But, so long as we live, we will make another thing. But to ride, that is the thing.

Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA

My Photographs : https://billbgibson.myportfolio.com/ and on Behance: https://www.behance.net/BillGibson

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 9:18 PM Kim H. <krhe...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Piaw -

I lived on Sladky Avenue between Springer and Fordham Way to be more specific.

Kim Hetzel.

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 8:42:37 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

I'm 2 long blocks from Cuesta Drive. I'm pretty sure if this happened in MTV or Sunnyvale the police wouldn't be unresponsive. I have no idea why Oakland and San Francisco don't consider a holdup at gunpoint worth getting a search warrant over.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 7:17 PM Kim H. <krhe...@gmail.com> wrote:

@Piaw -

Oh my goodness ! How terrible that is being forced at gunpoint to hand over your bicycle and being left stranded. Unbelievable. I am glad I do not live there anymore. I moved away decades ago not too far from you, near Cuesta Drive in Mountain View, California.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 4:33:43 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

Whenever I lock a Rivendell to a rack, I lock the heck out of it. I’m talking three U locks and a thick cable lock. It’s a pain, you have to find the right kind of rack to accommodate all the locks, and it means carrying an extra weight. The additional few seconds a thief would have to spend dealing with the locks might be enough deterrent. 

If I had to carry 3 U-locks and thick cable locks, why not just ride a heavy cheap used clunker? I remember someone once suggested the theorum that all bicycles + locks weigh the same (the light bike had to have a heavier lock). I once rode my Heron Touring bike in New Hampshire where I met cycling author Marty Basch. He and I walked into a restaurant for lunch, leaving our expedition-style loaded touring bikes in front of the restaurant unlocked. After a 2 hour lunch we walked back out and he looked at our bikes and said: "Darn. The bikes are still there. I guess we have to keep riding." (https://blog.piaw.net/2009/06/new-england-2000-bike-trip.html)

I take the approach that if I have to worry that much about my bike being stolen, I should start to worry about my personal safety as well. Here in the Bay Area there have been stories of bicyclists riding their bikes being forced to hand over their bikes at gunpoint and left stranded in the hills: https://www.berkeleyscanner.com/2023/06/23/crime/oakland-bikejacking-bike-robberies/

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[Ian A]

Have you considered a Brompton for a college bike? The folding nature of it means it can always be safely inside with your son. 

IanA Alberta Canada

[Mackenzy Albright]

I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a college commuting bike. 

I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted with high(er) end bikes and never had any issues. I like riding nice bikes - which is why I own them. I've parked in high foot traffic zones (in front of libraries, security, etc.) or bring my bike inside ( absolute in downtown Vancouver) when possible or parking my bike is in eyesight (outside my old office at a bike rack in UVIC). Just the standard back wheel lock with cable around the front wheel. Nothing fancy. (no QR seat) Never ever ever leave them parked over night. I always avoid dark or hidden area's, especially near residence halls or maintenance buildings. Granted - some universities and colleges are more sketchy than others. I've found eventually other cyclists with nice or similar bikes will start parking around you. It's a little heartwarming. My biggest issue is the occasional bike jammer - which leads to fender misalignment or dents. Scratches etc. It's the life of a bike. 

I am of the opinion have a wonderful bike to have a wonderful ride everyday not to hide in the garage. On the counterpoint - if one is going to be riding to the bars or parties or potential overnight parking...this is where the shenanigans will happen. It could be good having a "bar hopper" single speed or something of the sort if biking is desired in these situations. 

[nlerner]

Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve never had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never park it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a larger home break in.

Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to college as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear (bike racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for an excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.

Neal Lerner

Brookline MA

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…

Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his destination. 

The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 

And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 

Leah

[Curtis McKenzie]

If this is a question of bicycle happiness level (BHL)for a first year college student we may be spending more energy on this than we should.  Difficult to judge the BHL for an 18 y.o. when we are looking at this through our rose or not so rose colored glasses.  Who is to say the student on the 100 dollar "beater" has a different BHL compared to the student on the 2500 dollar bicycle?  

Perhaps only the rider knows.

Perhaps we should hope that the student is indifferent about the bicycle they ride and are focused on the task at hand.  

If this bicycle and not that bicycle makes the student happier at college then pick this bicycle.

Peace,

Curtis

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[Johnny Alien]

I mean the fallback is to take the smaller Clem H. It will be easier to get onto public transport bike racks and be easier to slot into a dorm at night too. The choice doesn't have to be Clem L or total beater. That Clem H is a killer bike that has slightly less sentimental value if it happens to get stolen. If it doesn't then he knows he can go with the bigger one the next semester. 

[Kim H.]

@ Jonathan -

Does the Clem H and the Clem L have the same wheelbase or not ?

I know my Clem L from the outer length from end to end of the wheels measures close to 80" long. Too long for a bike rack for a transit bus is my belief.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Leah Peterson]

Not these two Clems - the H is a first generation model, which was shorter AND it’s a 52.

On Aug 9, 2023, at 12:14 PM, Kim H. <krhe...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Kim H.]

@Leah -

Thank-you.  

Do you know, if both the first generation Clem H and L models are both shorter than the new generation Clem H and L models ?

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Leah Peterson]

There is no new generation H. They were discontinued after a short while. The old L models are shorter than the new models. I have a 2019 Clem L and it is much longer than the 2015 Clementine my MIL owned.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2023, at 1:02 PM, Kim H. <krhe...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Kim H.]

@Leah-

I thank-you for the information. I appreciate it.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Wesley]

Hi Kim,

The way to measure is from one axle to the other. The maximum measurement that will fit on bike racks on Sacramento busses (pretty much identical to racks I've used/seen in other cities) is approximately 45".

-Wes

[Kim H.]

@Wes -

 Thank-you.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Eric Marth]

Hi Leah — Congrats on sending your son off to college 🥲. This question does seem a little tricky! My short answer: Send him off with a racked and bagged dyanmo-equipped Clem. 

I'm not precious about my Rivendells in terms of dirt or scratches to the paint. But I make sure they're in good mechanical condition, running well and I take care to make sure they aren't stolen. But that's the current version of me. When I started college 20 years ago I didn't have racks, I didn't have bags, I didn't have lights and I didn't have a clue. My bike was two sizes too small for me.

I would not give College Freshman Eric Marth a Rivendell to take to school. I didn't have any tools, I didn't know how to change or repair a tube or adjust brakes. And I wasn't interested! I didn't know how to ride safely and didn't have good lights or reflectors. But I was not adjacent to any kind of bike culture and I didn't have a parent who was into practical, beautiful bicycles as tools to enhance life. Having a bike become a part of everyday life in college could be transformative. Especially with a bike as means of self expression and something more than a machine to get you from A to B. 

One recommendation might be to send him off for with a beater, but a good one. Something like an 80s or 90s steel mountain bike in the Rivendell style. A Bridgestone, Trek or Specialized with swept back bars, basket, bags and lights. Here's a picture of Roman's Sequoia (maybe not the best example, those bikes are pretty desirable and not too cheap!). 

But here's the thing: Finding a bike in the right size that checks all the boxes (steel, braze-ons, good tire clearance, etc.) plus all the accessories required (racks, bags, fenders, lights) and you're looking again at the cost of a Clem in the first place! Plus a lot of time getting all the stuff sourced and put together, whether you do it yourself or leave it to a shop. Any old steel mountain bike you find will almost certainly need tires, tubes, cables and brake pads. On an older used bike the brakes, pedals, derailers and gearing might not be right. The handlebars will certainly not sweep back gracefully. If you look around on Craigslist in your area you might get suuuuper lucky and find someone who has already upgraded an old steel bike in this style. I see them from time to time. You might also have some luck by starting a Want To Buy thread here with your requirements. Someone might have a nice beater they're ready to move along. 

Another alternative is an off-the-rack hybrid from your local bike shop. Well that's so un-groovy as to be pointless. Surely it will not be as practical as the Clem or half as good looking. I think it's worthwhile to customize the bike with whatever you have in mind. Once that stuff starts to weather and get a little dirty I wonder if the bike will become a real head-scratcher for thieves. Step thru, waxed sacks, wire basket, fenders, what is this thing? It doesn't have suspension springs or carbon anything. It's an everyday bike. 

I'm curious about the transition and how he's suited to land and college and get right into riding the bike everyday. Does he currently have a bicycle lifestyle and use his bikes for errands, shopping, meeting with friends, going to work? Do you anticipate he'll use the bike every day at college as his primary means of transport? I noticed there's a "no cars for freshmen" rule but you didn't mention the size of the campus or the city where he's headed. 

Regardless of what you do or which bike he takes bon voyage! And best to you and your family with the big changes ahead. 

[Eric Marth]

Hi Leah — Another recommendation: the Electra Loft 7i. My friend in Baltimore manages a Trek store and recently bought one. He quite likes it and says it's okay if it gets stolen. He swapped the bars, stem, pedals, seatpost, saddle, tires and added a front rack (I think it's a Velo Orange constructeur with a Wald 139). Internally geared 3-speed hub. They're around $750 from Trek. Just an idea :) 

[J G]

Just made this decision with my kid headed off to college in less than 2 weeks, as the bike they have had for the past 8 years has no business in a college bike rack.

Was originally looking at 80s/90s mountain bikes, however they can be a little sluggish, so I ended up picking up a ~1997 Bianchi Advantage.  It is a great bike!

Really like these old 700c Bianchi's for this type of purpose.  Fit fat tires (up to 38c generally), upright riding position and 3x7 and depending on year model you can find your preferred shifter type as they seeming were made in thumb, twist and click shift versions depending on year.  Does not feel overbuilt.  They made a few similar models like the Boardwalk so lots of options out there within this 90s/00s Bianchi space alone.

I paid $140 for the one I just got and it was mechanically perfect and a really fun ride!

[lconley]

A hard question. 50 years ago, I left for college and rode a Gitane Tour de France (Reynolds 531 frame, silk sew-up tires, mostly Campagnolo components) to class. I locked it up in the bushes (bike racks were not a thing at that point in time) and carried my books in my Boy Scout Yucca backpack. Two years later I was hit by an on-duty police officer. The frame was bent, but I was unhurt. I used the money that I got from the officer and selling the parts to buy a Schwinn Paramount P-15 (Reynold 531 frame, all Campagnolo except for the brakes). I continued to ride the Paramount to class until I graduated in 1978. When I went back to college from 1982 until 1987, I rode the Paramount, but now I had racks and bags and fenders and a bottom bracket mounted Sanyo generator. By this time there were bike racks to lock it to. I never locked the bike at night, I kept it inside at night. I still have the Paramount.

I might not do the same today for one basic reason - battery powered cutters with carbide blades, available cheap from your local Harbor Freight store. They can cut through anything. 

The basic strategy today seems to be to make your bike look worse that the other bikes in the rack and better locked. Rustoleum makes peel-off paint that you could camouflage the bike with (make it ugly and look rusty, add a few stickers), paint the stem, handlebars, hubs, some of the spokes and seatpost (I would avoid Barbie pink for the time being).  Peel it off after college to find the pristine Rivendell paint and aluminum below. You could even peel off the paint and change paint schemes occasionally. Riding a Rivendell is better than riding an ordinary bike.

Laing

Delray Beach FL

[Eric Marth]

I would love to have a nicely appointed Paramount as a college ride! 

My friend had a big 70s Schwinn in college and he would ride it down stairs on campus like those pictured below! 

[lconley]

That looks like mine on the right - a P-15 in Kool Lemon, but with the Schwinn branded Shimano RD. I didn't have any shoes, I rode it barefooted. It was basically the only thing I owned, other than a couple pairs of pants and T-shirts. The good old days.

Laing

[George Schick]

I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with linear-pull F&R brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect combo for campus riding.

A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area who are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, that's my 2¢.

PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work

[George Schick]

I have to retract my previous message a bit.  A Web investigation reveals that the Surly 1x1 frame is no longer available from the manufacturer.  Rats!!  This would've been the perfect bike.  Evidently the single-speed era has surpassed us now.

[Mackenzy Albright]

We all love our Rivendell's very very much and think highly of them. But just a point of perspective I would like to point out - not many people take a sloping top tube bike seriously. I've been friends with houseless folks in neighborhoods I've worked in the past. Bike and parts theft is often based off of convenience and flash and occasionally wrong place at the wrong time. Most bike thefts I hear of or witness these days are e-bikes (the biggest target), old 26" mountain bikes (since they're un-obsoletable they are valued highly by street folk), squishy mtbs, and flashy roady bikes that look like they're worth some bucks. A rim brake 700c step through commuter bike isn't exactly a bike to "stick out" to bike thieves - at least if it's locked well. Not saying there isn't a chance of any bike getting stolen. But realistically a clem smith jr is a lot less likely than somebody cruising to work on their carbon or full suspension specialized and locking it outside. Good consistent locking - making it apparent its not an easy steal will be good enough. If somebody really want's it they will steal it - but honestly there's going to be something more eye catching to a thief than a Clem 99% of the time IMO. 

I've also had multiple friends lose bikes that were "uglied up" with stickers and spray paint because security or property owners assumed they were stolen or bikes from street folk. Though universities will usually tag bikes before removal.  

Also - in response to George's good point. There is a reason so many college kids ride single speeds and fixed gears. (at least when I was in UNI and maybe I still notice them for that reason) they're cheap and easy to maintain. Not as much at stake. Less to worry about in general. (even though I stand by my Clem JR isn't high on the STEAL ME lists) 

[Mackenzy Albright]

George - I recently went on a quest to find an old non suspension corrected (1st or 2nd gen) Surly 1x1 or Karate Monkey and it was nearly impossible and their prices are quite high at least in Canada. There are little or no single speed specific mtb/atb frames these days (except the crust florida man and wombat) Getting a custom Marino was cheaper (~$500 CAD in total shipped) 

[Eric Daume]

The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as they seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the Lowside, I think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play anymore. 

Eric

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[Brian Turner]

I agree with Mackenzie’s point about swoopy top tube bikes not being taken seriously by most folks - regardless of whether or not they are “bike folks”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked if my Gus is “an old vintage bike”. Haha. Then I try to explain to them what it actually is and their eyes just gloss over.

Y’all are making me miss my old 1st generation Surly 1x1. I used it for most of my bike polo “career”, which spanned from 2007 - 2012. It traveled all over the Midwest with me and my fellow club mates. Man, that was probably the sweetest, most dialed-in bike I’ve ever owned. I had it set up with Motolites and a Paul dual-pull lever on the left side (so I could swing a mallet with my right). Stopped on a dime, and accelerated like a rocket. I had my friend Alex Meade (of Discord stem fame) who lived near me at the time, make me a custom straight blade fork for super-tight, twitchy turning… that bike absolutely slayed!

I’m happy to say it’s still roaming my city as a daily commuter; I ended up selling the f/f/hs to a friend of mine. I still see it occasionally and have pangs of regret!

On Aug 11, 2023, at 4:00 PM, Eric Daume <eric...@gmail.com> wrote:

The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as they seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the Lowside, I think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play anymore. 

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[greenteadrinkers]

I'd have a tough time focusing on/in class knowing I had a Riv. locked up outside.

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[Wesley]

The current best value from Surly is the Cross Check, at $1100 for a complete.

-W

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[Jay LePree]

Hi Leah,

I could not afford a car in graduate school at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, so wound up with a Diamond back mountain bike my first two years and then traded it in for a Specialized Triple Sirrus for my last two years there.  I was OK with both bikes, but after having my saddle and seatpost stolen on my Diamond back, I learned very quickly to install two seat leashes.  My bikes were stored inside my apartment overnight, so I overnight theft was not a concern.  I used a chain and a U-lock as that often can frustrate theives as then need two tools to steal the bike.  I would consider purchasing and installing Pitlock skewers to protect the wheels.  I would be wary of mounting bags to the bike.  Those would be easily stolen.  Baskets with torx nut hardware might be more theft proof.

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/pitlock.php

Jay LePree

Demarest, NJ

T LePree - 2020 ERAU - Commercial Pilot

K. LePree 2023 Columbia U. - Financial Analyst

That first walk past the high school, when all are away at school, will be a shock to the system, but it is part of their lives and ours.  Milestones.

[Ryan]

Fortunately , Leah, you do have a year to think about this. I suspect, since you haven't definitely settled on which college your son is going to, a tour of the campuses is probably part of your plans. Once you settle on a college, I'm sure you'll visit it. When you're visiting maybe a trip to the student union center is in order where you may be able to suss out the local bike culture as these student centers address many aspects of student life outside of pure academia. It's hard to beat the Clem for its practicality. As others have said, the cost of   configuring a beater bought for a few hundred bucks with dynamos, fenders, carrying capacity, etc. can quickly add up. If his Clem is  insured (may need to buy a rider) , you do the pitlock thing, he can keep it in the dorm room , he's meticulous about locking it up and it's a bike-commuter friendly campus, maybe all will be well, if he really wants to take the Clem and is aware of the risk. Risk of theft goes up, of course, when it locked up for several hours after dark on or off-campus

[Ted Durant]

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 3:14:34 PM UTC-5 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

I agree with Mackenzie’s point about swoopy top tube bikes not being taken seriously by most folks - regardless of whether or not they are “bike folks”. I

Be that as it may, the bike that was stolen from me in college was a Schwinn Typhoon. I'd rescued it from the tunnels (a nice feature at a college in MN) and put whitewalls and shiny chrome fenders on it.

Full disclosure, I think I forgot to lock it up that night.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA 

[Kaveh Askari]

I've ridden a Clem on a university campus in Michigan every day for several years. I've been working at colleges for 20 years, and this is my first non-beater that I lock up around campus. The risk has been worth the reward of making thousands of useful trips on such a dignified ride. 

That said, I lock it inside whenever I can during the day, and I almost never leave it out overnight. Like most universities, mine does have paid locking cages inside their parking garages. Those are totally safe, but they defeat the purpose of being able to zip around from one building to another (if you're on a big campus). 

Another thing to keep in mind: some campus bike racks are way safer than others. Most campuses have cameras everywhere. Maybe lock up in contained quads, with high visibility, where the traffic is only by foot or bike. It's good to avoid racks close to roads where someone can quickly hop out of a truck with an angle grinder or bolt cutters. 

--KA

 

 

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:48:32 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:

What others have said....

BUT a Clem could go to college if...in an ideal world

If he's living on-campus they're not going to fuss if he brings it inside his room at night to avoid leaving it locked up outside and creating ample opportrunity for theft...and maybe don't take the Clem bar-hopping

If the college is car-free maybe they have some sort of infrastructure set up for secure bike locking on campus...maybe there's some student-driven bike valet system...or your son could find like-minded folks on-campus to initiate something like that for secure lockup at the library or class buildings. Where I live in Winnipeg, the University of Winnipeg even has indoor locking facilities for a fee...but it's a downtown campus with a small footprint; you can easily hoof it from class to class. A large state campus, I imagine, not so much

In the absence of things like this , I'm afraid , a stealth beater that's actually fun to ride is the way to go

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 11:27:14 AM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote:

I'm going to join the majority and say don't send the Clem to college. IF* your boy needs a bike at school, buy a cheap hybrid, new or used. Bike shops are desperate to sell anything right now, and the used market is also oversaturated. 

*It's been a long time since I was at college, but even as a bike loving kid, I didn't ride my bike to classes. Too much hassle, too much risk. It was easier to navigate crowded campus paths by walking, even though I had one or two bikes tucked into my tiny dorm room.

Eric

Plain City, OH

On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 10:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who doesn’t ride, sigh). 

My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of saying… 

Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 

I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.

I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey through undergrad together.

I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…

Leah

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[David Jones]

Let's make it 3 for 3.  Keep the new Clem at home.  There will be plenty of time for him to enjoy it during college breaks, and post-college.  In 20+ years as a campus pastor at a Big 12 university, I don't ever recall seeing that nice of a bike on campus.

David Jones 

[Jason Fuller]

My take, in point form: 

- Any bike is at risk of theft or vandalism in this situation, no matter how 'perfectly suited' to the job it is. 

- That said, the Clem L is definitely less attractive to thieves than a Surly, despite being better in our eyes. Surlys are much better known. 

- If you are comfortable with a real risk of losing it to theft, and want to see it live its life, I'd go for it

- If it's painful to think of it being stolen, I'd hold it back and buy a $300 single speed for its disposable nature

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

These posts are so engaging. I have enjoyed reading all of them, and I see your points and they are good ones. 

I may send my son off with the 52 Clem as a test bike, but it really is too small. My WORD, the big Clem L fits him so nicely. Still, I hate to risk it right away before he really gets a lay of the land and sees where the safe bike parking is located. Further complicating matters is that I plan to get him a dyno wheelset and the 52 takes 650b and the big Clem 700c. Not interchangeable, sigh. 

I am most encouraged by those in academia who have reported they still have their bikes after years of commuting with them. Bike thieves; there’s gotta be a special place in hell for those…

L

[Ryan]

Not to put a damper on things...but those in academia employed as professors can probably wheel their bikes into their offices(if they;ve got room or make room),  a  privilege students don't enjoy unless they're grad students who may be lucky enough to share office space.

And one other thing to note is that your son might add an inch or so to that 6'1'' frame. It's so weird...I've been reading and enjoying your posts since those boys were in elementary school...wow! 

[Leah Peterson]





Wow, since the boys were in elementary school, Ryan, that’s a long time! But yes, I started out in late 2012 with a Betty and was pulling the younger one on his “one-wheeler.” 

[John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ]

Leah

I might I missed it, but does your son want a bike at college????

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Leah Peterson]

John,

Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.

1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for him that you would like to gift him?

2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused about the topic of the conversation?

3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was imposing my choices on my son?

If #1, no thank you, we have 2 good Clems to choose from.

If #2, I would direct you to the beginning of the thread. Freshman don’t have cars at the campus we’re looking at, and one needs alternate transportation.

If #3, I’ll not dignify your question with any answer. 

Leah

On Aug 14, 2023, at 9:52 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Leah

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[Doug H.]

Leah,

It looks like the ole Betty Foy served you well during your sons' early years. Where is that bike now? I don't remember if you sold it or have it stashed away. And, doesn't time fly!?! We were looking at some old photos of my sons recently and reminiscing.

Doug

[John Phillips]

Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.

John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the strength of his desire for a bike at college could correlate to the amount of attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.

You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you don't like.

John

[Doug H.]

John,

I took the question exactly as Leah interpreted it. The triple question mark at the end of the question was pretty emphatic. Take a breath? Really man?

Doug

[John Phillips]

Doug, I was addressing Leah's response to John Hawrylak's question, not your posting.

John

[Eric Daume]

I think many of us have had an experience where we cared much more about the bike for a loved one than the loved one does. Maybe that’s where the question was coming from.  

Eric

Three kids, zero who care about bikes :(

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[Patrick Moore]

Sorry, I have to agree with both Johns; the question seemed to be serious and without condescension. The triple question marks indicate reserve in asking the question and not exasperation or putdown; "Perhaps you might consider ...?"

[Johnny Alien]

Written communication can often come off the wrong way. The original question does come off a bit rough but might not have been intended that way. In addition I think the "take a deep breath and count to 10" comment comes off as very condescending (but hopefully wasn't intended that way). Just as easy to say "I think you may have taken that the wrong way".

[Joe Bernard]

This is going great you guys. I think it was clear after many days and many posts that the question is "what bike?", not does the kid even want one. It'd be super if we could stick with that. 

[Leah Peterson]

John,

Over the years I have found this forum to be extremely helpful. The willingness of members to answer elementary questions from someone just entering the bike world has been invaluable. I’ve always been appreciative, and I have made it a point to say so.

But here on our forum, there also exists an undercurrent of condescension. Every now and again, seemingly out of the blue, someone will pitch a mean comment and change the conversation. It’s happened to me several times, and I’ll never get used to it. 

We can have 75 helpful posts offering experience and well thought-out opinions and then suddenly one person chimes in with a question that sounds very much like sarcasm. It’s part of the culture of this forum, and it’s unfortunate.

John #1’s question could have been genuine, but if so it was poorly phrased, so I doubt it. 

John #2’s (yours) was out of line and can only be received as rude. I’ve lived long enough that when I hear “calm down” I know it’s usually a man saying it to a woman. If you doubt me, ask yourself if you’d have said these same words to Bill Lindsay. 

To the rest of you, thank you! I have had so much to think about, thanks to your excellent points and stories about your own experiences on college campuses. 

And that is all I have to say on the matter.

Leah

On Aug 15, 2023, at 1:57 PM, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Mackenzy Albright]

Admittedly, I had almost the exact opposite issue as a college student. I grew up without cyclists in my family, and think it's so rad that there are parents like Leah to give a good starting point of living a happily car free college life. 

I was messy messy messy in my hyperfocus niche interests (bikes). As an adolescent I got into bmx bikes. I had a very high end BMX I kept in my dorm room under my bunk for the first two years. I worked at a skatepark and rode with many professional friends. Eventually, a visiting friend "from the city" brought his IRO fixed gear. I was absolutely smitten. He taught me about fixed gear conversions - so I went to one on one bike studios in Minneapolis and Gene helped me pick out a beat Schwinn Letour in my size and parts I needed to convert it to fixed. 

Within the next few months - I befriended a local bike shop worker who talked me into buying a 54cm Surly steam roller frame (I am 6' 2" mind you) for nearly wholesale as it'd been sitting for ever a year. My IRO friend came back and took me down the biggest hill in town (sanfrancisco style) on that brakeless steamroller. Literally probably the stupidest day of my life. We continued on a 40+K ride in the country side to a waterfall and it blew my mind. My friend with the IRO was also into racing on a geared bike - and informed me on the magic of "geared bikes" 

I sold the steamroller and dropped all my savings on a Long haul Trucker. Except - except they all fit weird and I didn't like the loooong top tube after a short period. So I traded it for Cross check. I despised the cross check frame even more - but somebody offered to trade a geared Karate Monkey for my Cross check. I rode the Karate Monkey for a while, but fell back in love with single speeds, so converted it to single speed and rode that a long time. To my detriment "Ride the Divide" came out. Mark Remier's first Generation Salsa Fargo was on display - dirt and all at the premier. Within the week I rode to Angry Catfish and picked up a Fargo in my size. I loved that bike. That concluded my undergrad....I wont even start on my bikes during my "Grad school years" 

I was quite..."promiscuous" in my bike building because "college" is for experimenting right? (I never drank or did drugs - most of my bike dealings were trade/second hand based being in QBP land) There was just so much to learn and try out -  I couldn't get enough. There were definitely other bikes and builds in there I am forgetting like a shogun touring bike etc. and lots of BMX bikes. That was just my undergrad...20 years later. Oof - not going to think too hard about it. But the enthusiasm hasn't stopped.

I think it's super cool to have an option for such a versatile bike from the get go and supportive parents for a *much* better starting point. I absolutely believe that Leah's kid is in good hands. Who knows what'll happen, but he's got a great bike to work with and obviously a lot of love and support which is super great. 

[Doug H.]

Great story Mackenzy! I think many of us started on BMX bikes. I was an 80s kid and the group of guys in my neighborhood all had BMX bikes. In college I rode a Trek mountain bike (low end) but also had a car so the bike was primarily for exercise. I tried single speed a few years ago and really enjoy the simplicity of it even with the limitations.

Doug

[matt miller]

I've been thinking about this situation a lot. (And thinking back about 20 years to my time in college.) I was from a small town, and went to a large public school. I learned a lot, and a lot of learning is through mistakes. I did lots of dumb stuff, and minus the time I went flying over the handlebars and got an ambulance ride, I was lucky to escape without life-altering implications. My grandpa died when I was in college, and I still treasure a few small items I have from him. Ultimately, things are things, but some things mean more than others. It will be up to your family to decide the best route. I'm not sure it's been mentioned before, but any thought to taking an entirely different bike first semester/first year with the plan to revisit taking the Clem second semester/sophomore year? 

Good luck with your decision.

Matt in STL

[Will]

When I was in college I had a Raleigh Competition and a Raleigh RRA (French metric Raleigh bike). It was a small campus in Williamsburg, VA. I had no problems with either bike. Yes, I locked them. Yes, I didn't leave them out at night and so on, but my point is... with a good U lock and maybe some wheel theft clamps, I think you'll be fine. No one is looking for a classic steel bike  these days. Now they want carbon and disc brakes. And there are plenty of those bikes to steal. I'd give him the Clem. 

Will

[Will]

Oh yes.... it might help a bit if the bike didn't look so new. With a few duct tape patches that can be easily solved without hurting the frame. 

[Davey Two Shoes]

Send Grandpa's Clem! 

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Leah,

I probably can't add much to the discussion that hasn't already been mentioned aside from more personal anecdotes, but catching up on this thread has ignited some thoughts and reminiscing so will try my best to share my .02 cents without being redundant.  Fortunately, you have more time to figure things out but that same time leads to more fretting and potential for circumstances to change but best of luck with this decision and to your son on his journey either way.  Initially, I leaned to the 'get the lay of the land' perspective before being pressured to make a 'which bike decision' but I then realized this is also somewhat ironic in that depending on the school/campus just having a bike those first few weeks could in turn help your son get a better lay of he land!  

I attended a small, suburban, public school - I had no need for transportation to get around campus as it was easily walkable no matter where your dorm or classes were.  I didn't have a car on campus until halfway through my 2nd year. I didn't have a bike on campus until my 3rd year when I moved into an off-campus, but very local, private rental with friends and transported the bike from home to school in my own vehicle.  I was a fairweather bike commuter that 3rd year but had a garage to store it and never kept it locked overnight (that I recall) but would leave it locked up for extended periods in a somewhat high traffic area.  It was a 90's MTB that I bought new at around 14-15yrs old as my first proper bike shop bike.  It was ridden heavily until I began driving.  Then it collected dust, aside from occasional summer use, until I came back to school that 3rd year.  I was fortunate to go unscathed that year with nothing more than a small cable lock for security and still have the frame in use today!  It's a basic, rigid MTB Mongoose branded bike which had reliable Shimano 3x7 indexed components but by that point I think Mongoose had already devolved into a low end big box brand so wasn't likely drawing too much attention from even opportunistic thieves even though it predated the Mongoose sale/demise and is a decent Taiwan made chromoly frame with full Shimano components.  Despite sitting for a few years it showed it's age from it's heavy initial use and remained almost entirely stock with little more maintenance than an occasional chain lube.  I didn't have racks or carry spare tubes or a pump or anything and was really fortunate going flat-less and theft free that entire year (I'd eventually learn the hard way several years later to prepare and be self sufficient for flats and roadside mechanical failures!) 

4th year I moved further away into another rental and the bike went back home.  In hindsight, and based on my adult biking experience, the distance was certainly 'bike-commutable' but this rental lacked a garage so bike storage would have been relegated to a covered porch but in a more theft prone neighborhood so I just abandoned it for the year knowing I'd use it very little that year.  I was a 5th year undergrad student after cutting back to part time for my 4th year and brought the bike back for my 5th and final year but not for commuting purposes.  I moved even further from campus but we found a nice house adjacent to a rail trail system so the bike was purely for leisure rides along the trails that year and I again had a garage for overnight storage.

My own early college experience was also based on the fact that I did not come from a bicycle-centric family.  I rode everywhere in my teens but we as a family were nowhere near prepared to transport my bike to school that first or second year.  You already have that part all figured out with a car rack, etc.  Some dorms had racks out front but my sophomore dorm had basement bike storage - looking back I should have at least taken advantage of that opportunity with the basement bike rack.  I could have ventured off campus more frequently and at my leisure without relying on hitching a ride or borrowing a friends car.  Those fist two years were actually rather confining now that I reflect on it.  There was no need for transportation to get around campus just a need for transportation to get away from campus.  As a freshman I also lost my father unexpectedly a month into school and that set an unexpected trajectory into diving deep into my coursework but also into partying at the same time.  I was already a night owl in highschool but further deepened this routine of staying up all night and sleeping all day.  In hindsight, having a bicycle available may have provided more opportunities to explore other interests besides video games, partying, and my coursework and may have provided a little more motivation to get out and explore around town on weekends rather than choosing the more self destructive uses of my time.  Maybe... though probably not... just knowing where I was at the time and not having the overall interest in cycling I do now... but maybe.  I also tend to care for my belongings so would not have likely neglected a bike on campus knowing it was my only bike and only escape vehicle.

Guess you could make this one long winded vote to stick some Huffy stickers on the Clem downtube!

Brian Cole

Lawrenceville

[Kim H.]

I went to Foothill Junior College in Los Altos Hills, California from the fall of 1973 to June of 1977. You ask why I went there for four years ?  I had to be on my mother's employer's dental insurance to be covered for dental bridges for most of my entire mouth.

In the course of my college attendance, in December of 1973, I purchased for $380.00 my first real ten-speed bicycle a 1973 Cilo Sprintx semi-professional racing bicycle from owning a $150.00 Dutch Batavus ten-speed bike from the previous summer as an upgrade. Not knowing a lot about bicycles and what style of riding I enjoyed that most, I found myself selling most all of the Campagnolo componentry within six months of purchase, because the drive train gearing limited me from climbing the foothills above Santa Clara County to Skyline Boulevard SR 35 and beyond.

I bought new componentry of the day that was the best of its time for my Cilo, such as Phil Wood hubs and pedals, Super Champion rims, Avocet saddle, Suntour Cyclone f/r derailleurs, T. A. Cyclotourist,crankset, Suntour Bar-Con ratchet shifters, Bluemel fenders and ultimately finding a NIB Campagnolo Nuovo Records side pull brakeset for my sports touring bike. The Campy brakeset was the ultimate cool to have back then. I purchase the brakeset for a bargain price of $75.00, plus tax !  They were going for $140.00 retail.

I rode my Cilo to college year round from my parents house and back was 4.4 miles. There were times that I rode my 1966 Raleigh three speed, as well. I did lock up my Raleigh three speed in a bike rack. It never got stolen. With my Cilo, I took it every where I went inside the classrooms and lecture halls, including the bathrooms around campus. It never left my sight. I never locked it up. It never has seen a kickstand either.

When I was not attending college on the weekends, I would make my rounds of visiting all the bike shops in the area from I lived in Mountain View to Los Altos, Sunnyvale, Cupertino, to Palo Alto to see what was new and talk to a few of the owners or staff or ride solo up into the hills of Santa Cruz or ride with a friend out to Woodside and over to the coast through Portola Valley to San Gregorio to Half Moon Bay.

Over time, my Cilo became my favorite road bike of all for about forty years. It fit me perfectly in very way. It felt like a European sports car. I honestly cannot tell you how many miles I rode on it. Bicycle computers were not available back then. I never bothered to buy the old mileage/odometer meter. My guess would be between 3,000 to 5,000+ miles ?

I retired my Cilo back in 2011, I grew older and riding in the drops was not comfortable anymore. I wanted to find another bicycle for an upright riding position and lower gearing. It took me a very long time for the right moment to purchase a Clem Smith Jr. "L" bicycle last year and fall in love again. Owing a Rivendell bike was the last thing I thought I would ever own.  I know now what it like to own a bicycle from Rivendell Bicycle Works. Thank-you, Grant Petersen !

Kim Hetzel

.....sheltering inside my the intense heat in the low 90's today in air conditioning. I wish I could have stayed longer in Sitka, AK with grey clouds and rain.

Yelm, WA.

[Piaw Na]

Foothill/Los Altos isn't the den of bike thieves that a big city college campus like Berkeley or City College San Francisco is going to be. Of course, my mother in law left a $1700 REI ebike unattended outside ranch 99 for a few minutes while shopping and of course it was gone before she came back.

Here's the thing: if you can be bothered to be on a bicycle mailing list at all you're probably a bikie and would care about bikes.  Someone who's not a bike (like me during my freshman year in college) is going to get a bike stolen and shrug. (I hurt more from my MIL losing her ebike than she did --- she shrugged and walked home --- needless to say we did not buy her another expensive bike to replace the one that was stolen!) 

[Kim H.]

@Piaw - I had a feeling you would be chiming in after me mentioning of Los Altos and Foothill College.

Kim Hetzel.

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

I resisted moving to Los Altos as long as I could, but having moved here, I will say that the riding is superlative compared even to Sunnyvale. All the hills you can get, while the valley being flat enough that the kids can bike to school without complaining. I was quite impressed to see so many kids riding to school and even more impressed that the elementary school had a bike cage that locked once classes started! 

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[David Jones]

Well, Leah, you sure opened up a thread that everyone seems to want to weigh in on, and a thread that seems to be enjoying a longevity that few can match.

One thought I had that hasn't been covered by anyone, yet, is:  "What would your father's wishes be for this bike?  Which of the different actions you are considering would honor his memory to the fullest degree possible?" 

My original, brief, response was to keep it home during college to protect it from being stolen.  My thinking was that "it's a long life" and your son will have a better chance of staying connected to his grandfather by having decades to enjoy riding the bike.  But if your father was a person who was a "pin your ears back" risk taker who approached life as if there were no guarantees of tomorrow or appreciated a certain detachment to "things," then by all means "seize the day" and send the bike with your son to college, fully recognizing the inherent risks involved and, hopefully, having made peace with the possibility of him graduating from college without the bike in his possession.

David Jones

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