going down the Brooks rabbit hole...

[Richard Rose]

Since getting my Clem in January I've logged nearly 600 miles. I mention this because of all the bikes I have owned I have never looked forward to each ride the way I do with this one. The bike however has revealed a chink in the armor of my much liked SQ labs saddle. It just is not wide enough to support my sit bones in my very upright position. It is great up to a little over 2 hours but starts to reveal itself after that. So, I took advantage of the opportunity to pick up a very gently used B67 too close to home to turn down. Here's hoping this saddle will provide the support my current one lacks without raising any ugly issues with unwanted pressures the SQ was so good at eliminating.

[Garth]

If that doesn't work out and you feel adventurous, try a Selle Royal Lookin Womens saddle, the Moderate is 198mm wide, if not there is the relaxed version about 228mm. These have a sweet spot everywhere, so there's no comparing them with Brooks or many other types. Their foam/gel stuff has to be experienced to be believed ..... it's very dense, giving, supportive yet never hard and certainly impossible to bottom out on, it's goldilocks,  mmmmm just right, for ever and ever. 

https://www.selleroyal.com/en/look-moderate

https://www.selleroyal.com/en/look-relaxed

[Joel S]

How wide is the SQ saddle? I have very narrow sitbones and can ride a B17 at 50-60 degrees so not totally upright.  There are some easy ways to measure your sitbone width.  

[Richard Rose]

Using the SQ “fit kit” (piece of corrugated cardboard!) I get a consistent measurement of 110mm. The second part of the SQ method for choosing the right saddle is to add between 10-50 mm to this measurement base on your posture on the bike. Based on my slightly forward leaning position I would add 30-40mm, so my saddle is 140mm wide. I realize that the B17 should be wide enough to perhaps solve my problem. However, I had a B67 for a short while and liked it a lot on my previous bike. I never got it dialed in however & in any event the springs made it impractical to use my bikepacking seatbag - not enough clearance on that 29+ Jones bike. That is not a problem on the Clem being a 650b bike. And I got a super price on this B67 so thought I’d give it another shot.

Interestingly I contacted SQ about my situation. They referred to my bike as a “Dutch” bike! Their suggestion was their 621 model, which very much resembles the shape of the B67, albeit with substantial padding. It would be 180 wide. One of the things I really like about the “Active” SQ saddles is the very subtle rocking motion while pedaling. Rivendell / Grant mention a similarity subtle rocking motion from the springs on the B67. I hope my 170lbs. is enough to feel that.

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On Mar 23, 2022, at 10:23 AM, 'Joel S' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

How wide is the SQ saddle? I have very narrow sitbones and can ride a B17 at 50-60 degrees so not totally upright.  There are some easy ways to measure your sitbone width.  

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[JRStern11]

I’m 140#s, rode. B67 when I was about 150, maybe a bit less.  I never noticed anything from the springs.  I used a B68 (no springs) for years, sold them all stupidly but the 17 seems to work well for me.  I got a bit of chafing from the B68 flare but should have put a couple of holes in it and tied with shoe laces.  Sounds like the 67 should work great for you.  

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[Richard Rose]

So I installed the B67 this morning and experimented a little. I was pretty precise about positioning the same as the SQ. I started with the saddle dead level. Very short ride had me sliding off the saddle - forward. But it felt ok just slippery. So I figured perhaps that is why I see so many Brooks with nose up. So I cranked it up. Felt amazing! But after just a mile I got off & sensed a tiny bit of pressure where none of us want it. So I dropped it a little. The sky’s cleared & I ride that way for over an hour. Pretty good. No sliding, no pressure. Cautiously optimistic. 

So I have a question; what is this weird science at play that is so counter intuitive? Nose up says crotch pressure to me. How does this work?

And yes, the B67 squeaks a bit. And yes, it’s a boat anchor. Neither of which concerns me too much.

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On Mar 23, 2022, at 1:19 PM, 'JRStern11' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[JRStern11]

I ride my brooks level, I use a high quality level to ensure this, I never slide.  Nose up gets me numb.  Many brooks riders ride nose up.  I cannot.  If numbness persists I have read recommendations to put the nose down a bit.  

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[John Hawrylak]

RMRO asked " So I have a question; what is this weird science at play that is so counter intuitive? Nose up says crotch pressure to me. How does this work?"

I always thought the 'nose up' is required since the B17 shape is like a hammock, you need the nose up very slightly to get the sit bones in the right position.  Too much, gets you in the numbing area.  So it's bit of experimenting since every one is different.  Some pictures I've seen show what I think would be excessive nose up for me, but obliviously is OK with the rider

I find a good nose up position and then use a digital angle finder on the straight section just behind to saddle nose to measure how much 'up' I got.   This location seems repeatable since it away from the hammock section.  Eyeballing it is also good.    

Been using B17's and VO Model 3's exclusively.  The VO Model 3 seems as good as the B17, IMHO.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Richard Rose]

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On Mar 23, 2022, at 5:35 PM, 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

RMRO asked " So I have a question; what is this weird science at play that is so counter intuitive? Nose up says crotch pressure to me. How does this work?"

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/76882c12-1ff2-47ab-bc29-899f43983e92n%40googlegroups.com.

[Pam Bikes]

I'm nose up since I like setback and I'm short and the rails angle my (saddle) nose up when I slide it all the way back and I have a weird size seatpost....  I'd post a picture but don't want too many comments that I always get.  I sit on the back not on the front where the nose is up.  That's why it's that way.

[J J]

I've tried nose up, and even slightly raised it is numbing. Level works best for me. When I slide nose up it's uncomfortable. Sliding level is never a problem. I ride a B67 with chrome springs. I'm a big fellow, and it sometimes feels bouncy to me, not so much a rocking motion. The saddle makes noise over bumps and during aggressive stretches. It's like a bird chirping throughout the ride. I've come to find it very pleasant — and it gently signals my approach to others.

[Richard Rose]

Well, I think I am edging closer to the sweet spot. A big help has been the arrival of the S83 seatpost. It really helps when fine tuning things. And of course, it’s beautiful!

I do not know how folks feel about KOPS (knee over pedal spindle for clarification) fit method. But, I checked mine & found I was maybe a bit too far back. That seems to have helped a lot & right now things feel really good. Need a break in the weather to give it a good test.

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On Mar 23, 2022, at 11:54 PM, J J <junes...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've tried nose up, and even slightly raised it is numbing. Level works best for me. When I slide nose up it's uncomfortable. Sliding level is never a problem. I ride a B67 with chrome springs. I'm a big fellow, and it sometimes feels bouncy to me, not so much a rocking motion. The saddle makes noise over bumps and during aggressive stretches. It's like a bird chirping throughout the ride. I've come to find it very pleasant — and it gently signals my approach to others.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c1177fe1-fdf5-4922-a7e2-27a76ea36832n%40googlegroups.com.

[Richard Rose]

Well, 4 rides in the books with the B67. After each of the first three I made adjustments. Todays ride was the longest - 2 hours. No adjustments.:)

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On Mar 24, 2022, at 1:47 PM, Richard Rose <rmro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, I think I am edging closer to the sweet spot. A big help has been the arrival of the S83 seatpost. It really helps when fine tuning things. And of course, it’s beautiful!