Mixte vs Diamond Frame

[Melanie]

All this discussion of mixtes on the list has made me curious. I’ve never ridden a mixte. Other than mounting/dismounting, do owners of both types of bikes experience any real differences between riding a mixte and riding a diamond frame?

Mixte-curious Melanie 

[Eric Daume]

I had a Cheviot for a brief spell. I found it a surprisingly zippy feeling bike, which I attributed to some nice flex in the frame. But, a mixte really is a trip thru design for me, so I didn’t see any advantage for mounting or dismounting.

Eric

On Wednesday, January 27, 2021, Melanie <myo...@gmail.com> wrote:

All this discussion of mixtes on the list has made me curious. I’ve never ridden a mixte. Other than mounting/dismounting, do owners of both types of bikes experience any real differences between riding a mixte and riding a diamond frame?

Mixte-curious Melanie 

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[Tom Palmer]

Hi Melanie,

I concur with the trip through design, but it is worth it for me. I have wanted a Cheviot since they came out. I have 3 mixtes currently built and a few frames for future builds. The gateway for me was a Schwinn Mirada Mixte (really a Sport with single top tube) that fits huge tires- 26x2.8 or 650Bx 50 plus fenders. It is a bit of a tank, but just fun to ride. I have 2 more of these. A similar vintage Schwinn Traveller in Scarlet red was my primary hop on and ride bike until my newest bike that is now built but not ridden - a Soma Buena Vista Mixte in Russo Red. It isn't a Raspberry Platypus, but it really pops. This will be my touring bike I think. 

Where they shine for me touring is the lower top tube that allows easier mounting when loaded. I have fallen and hit my helmeted head twice on tours- one just starting out and once at the the end of the day when tired. Swinging a leg over what is on the rear rack is more difficult the longer the day in the saddle and I caught my foot and fell hard. Leaning the bike away from me slightly and lifting my leg over the top tube is  easy even when tired. Hopping off the seat with the no top tube worries is good as well. The biggest reason for me is they are just fun. I enjoy the comments and looks by "serious" cyclists. Spirted riding is just as fun as on a diamond frame road bike, just slightly different the way the bike rides, but diamond frames vary greatly too.

As always, a different bike to ride is a good thing.

Tom Palmer

Twin Lake, MI 

[Joe Bernard]

My answer is a little off-topic because you're not asking about mounting/dismounting, but it's for a different part of the ride. I don't actually get much benefit from the mixte style at the beginning/end because I tend to swing my leg over the back of the seat regardless of style of frame, even little folders like your Bike Friday tikit. The benefit for me is in all the stop-and-go's during a ride where I'm hopping off the saddle and dropping a foot to the ground; there's a comfort factor in knowing the toptube is way down there out of the way and I don't need to consider it. This is especially true on trail rides where I'm off the saddle and dabbing a foot often, I used to "underbike" my old Riv Romulus on singletrack and yeah..that could be an interesting ride at times! 

Joe Bernard 

[Steve Palincsar]

On 1/27/21 2:26 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

My answer is a little off-topic because you're not asking about mounting/dismounting, but it's for a different part of the ride. I don't actually get much benefit from the mixte style at the beginning/end because I tend to swing my leg over the back of the seat regardless of style of frame, even little folders like your Bike Friday tikit. The benefit for me is in all the stop-and-go's during a ride where I'm hopping off the saddle and dropping a foot to the ground; there's a comfort factor in knowing the toptube is way down there out of the way and I don't need to consider it. This is especially true on trail rides where I'm off the saddle and dabbing a foot often, I used to "underbike" my old Riv Romulus on singletrack and yeah..that could be an interesting ride at times!

On the other hand, when you stop with a level top tube diamond frame and put both feet on the ground, the frame is securely trapped between your thighs and can't easily fall over.  A frame like the space-frame Moulton,

on the other hand, flops over easily unless you consciously hold it by the handlebars because there's nothing between your thighs to keep the frame stable.  I don't ride my Moulton all that often, so I forget this every time I go out for a ride.

Joe Bernard 

On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 5:47:49 AM UTC-8 Melanie wrote:

All this discussion of mixtes on the list has made me curious. I’ve never ridden a mixte. Other than mounting/dismounting, do owners of both types of bikes experience any real differences between riding a mixte and riding a diamond frame?

Mixte-curious Melanie 

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Joe Bernard]

True! But that doesn't apply to a bike like my sort-of-mixte-sport, the toptube is still up there where it'll stabilize at a stop. Definitely true of something like a Brompton or Moulton. 

[Linda G]

If you are comparing a mixte and a diamond Rivendell frame, you could have both bikes set up in a similar way, with a handlebar that swoops back and is set up fairly high. In that case the ride would not be all that different. Mixte frames are usually designed for a higher handlebar so you do not have to use a long stem and I think they look better than a diamond frame when using that setup. I have a mixte frame bike set up with swoopy handlebars just above seat height and another which is a diamond frame with drop bars set at about the same height. The riding experience is very different. It's a slower, leisurely ride on the mixte with a good view in all directions. I'm leaning a little more forward on the diamond bike and so my pedaling is more efficient. On the drop bars I can change my hand position up/down and forward/back more easily. It's much better if I am going for a longer ride. The mixte is better around town. A lot of the difference in ride depend on how you set the bike up and not as much on the frame. If you are talking about non-Rivendell frames, many are not as adaptable to being set up different ways.

Linda

On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 5:47:49 AM UTC-8 Melanie wrote:

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Hmmm...I’m marching straight out to the garage to see how I do the lean-the-bike-against-the-leg thing. Because I *do* do this, so, it’s possible. 

Also, Melanie, how will you ride in your darling sundress to the picnic to meet your friends if you don’t have a mixte?! (After this pandemic is over, you know...) Putting that plug in for the mixte - you don’t need to plan your outfit around it! ❤️

[Mark Roland]

As pointed out in the other thread, mounting and dismounting a mixte uses the same techniques that apply to a diamond frame, unless A. you are very limber, or B. you let the frame drop away from you to effectively lower the top tube further. In terms of functional differences, also mentioned in the other thread, it is much easier to ride it in clothing other than pants or shorts, and it is less intimidating when sliding off the saddle for a stop light.

In terms of ride, modern mixtes with a single top tube as opposed to the skinny twin tubes of some vintage mixtes, can be considered almost like a compact frame with a radically sloping top tube. Except instead of lots of seat post, you have the seat tube itself extending well beyond the top tube. The ones with the twin tubes can be overly flexy, especially in bigger sizes or if loaded.

I like mixtes because I think they look much better with swept back bars than diamond frames. My first extensive experience on a mixte was with a stock Schwinn Le Tour Tourist mixte. They made this model for a year or two in the 80s. It was a Le Tour with North Road style bars and white  Bluemels fenders. After that bike went down the road, I started making my own from regular drop bar Le Tour mixtes. My upcoming violet will be Le Tour #6 if you count the first one.

On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 8:47:49 AM UTC-5 Melanie wrote:

[Roberta]

Hi, Melanie.

I have a Handsome Cycles She-Devil that I got for errands around town and locking up.  Even with excellent locks, I worry about locking up my Rivs in the city.  The mixte is great for city riding--grocery, library, other things I used to do but cannot these days...   I have a Wald basket affixed to my rack with zip ties, so I'm always prepared for a library pop in (when they were opened) or a snack from the farmers market.   I can hop off without fear at intersections.  There is also something "more open" and more freeing when I ride with the much lower top tube.  I'd rather be cruising on this one.  Still, I don't think I put 100 miles a year on the bike, because most shopping I do is so close, it's easier to walk.  However, when I do ride it for my purposes, I'm glad I have it.

As far as mounting/dismounting, I tilt the bike to me and put my leg over the top tube (if I forget, my basket reminds me as I usually hit it swinging my leg over).  For dismount, I also tilt the bike and and bring my leg over the top tube.    Like the others have said here, it's a trip thru, not an easy step thru, unless you are very limber and can get your foot high enough strictly with your leg muscles (yoga can help).

But... I want a Riv mixte for my retirement bike (a few years early) because of the reasons I stated above,  and the Platypus might fit the bill.  So, I bought (will buy) one and you're welcome to join me for a ride whenever I have it and we can have a nice ride and you can try it out!

Roberta

On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 8:47:49 AM UTC-5 Melanie wrote:

[Melanie Yolles]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on mixtes. So there is no difference in the ride per se, just some perceived advantages (aesthetics, ability to hop on/off without fear of hitting the top tube, ability to wear a sundress, LOL!).  There are definitely times I wished that my Appaloosa had a lower top tube. So now I'm trying to fight off a case of BBDD-induced Platypus fever. Is there a vaccine?

Melanie

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 8:47 AM Melanie <myo...@gmail.com> wrote:

All this discussion of mixtes on the list has made me curious. I’ve never ridden a mixte. Other than mounting/dismounting, do owners of both types of bikes experience any real differences between riding a mixte and riding a diamond frame?

Mixte-curious Melanie 

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[Leah Peterson]

There is no cure for mixte-itis. The only way to be rid of it for sure is to ask your Appaloosa to scoot over and  allow a Platy to move into your garage. Once that is done, the next step in your treatment process is to message your #RivSisters and start planning your build and dreaming about finery.

There is no other way. 

Leah

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On Jan 28, 2021, at 6:28 AM, Melanie Yolles <myo...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mark Roland]

Melanie wrote: Thanks for everyone's thoughts on mixtes. So there is no difference in the ride per se, just some perceived advantages (aesthetics, ability to hop on/off without fear of hitting the top tube, ability to wear a sundress, LOL!).

True to an extent. But not all mixtes are created equal.  You will not find a road+ (aka country bike) mixte that uses cantilever or v-brakes, that takes such wide tires, that has a luxuriously long wheelbase, that has attachments for racks & fenders, that comes in sizes to fit many riders, that has lugs and beautiful paint (I want that Legnano Green!) outside of a Rivendell Platypus.  Bonus for outrageous head badge. If I had not acquired the full Hillibike lineup (including tandem) in the last year, I would be putting my money on a Platypus.  Mixte zenith. Zenithauras. Zenithaur.

[RichS]

Hello Mark,

I don't own a mixte or a step-thru (yet) but it sure puts a smile on my face whenever I see some of your "fleet" posted here. The Schwinns look great. It's also fun for this former resident of NY State to see them posed in the Hudson River Valley settings. Thank you and keep up the good work! 

Best,

Rich in ATL

[Leslie Tierstein]

The only difference I found is that, since the mixte doesn't have a traditional down tube, it didn't have a down tube braze-on for a water bottle cage. How it rides depends on other design characteristics. Also, there's no top tube, so no pressing your thighs against the top tube when you go downhill.  But I have that same issue with my folding bike. 

On Wednesday, January 27, 2021 at 9:01:13 AM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote:

I had a Cheviot for a brief spell. I found it a surprisingly zippy feeling bike, which I attributed to some nice flex in the frame. But, a mixte really is a trip thru design for me, so I didn’t see any advantage for mounting or dismounting.

Eric

On Wednesday, January 27, 2021, Melanie <myo...@gmail.com> wrote:

All this discussion of mixtes on the list has made me curious. I’ve never ridden a mixte. Other than mounting/dismounting, do owners of both types of bikes experience any real differences between riding a mixte and riding a diamond frame?

Mixte-curious Melanie 

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[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Leslie - the good news is that after you mentioned the bottle mounts I went and checked my frame - there are two sets of mounts for water bottles on the Platypus! 🥰 Rivendell mixtes >All other mixtes. 

[Leslie Tierstein]

Glad to hear it. A friend has a mixte and it had bottle mounts. I guess because my mixte had a non-standard tube it didn’t. It was an older Austro Daimler. I’ll see if I can find a picture - just lent the bike to a friend. 

On Jan 28, 2021, at 5:38 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leslie - the good news is that after you mentioned the bottle mounts I went and checked my frame - there are two sets of mounts for water bottles on the Platypus! 🥰 Rivendell mixtes >All other mixtes. 

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[Mark Roland]

Leslie wrote: I guess because my mixte had a non-standard tube it didn’t. It was an older Austro Daimler.

Hi Leslie. What is "non-standard" about the tube? I assume, based on your previous comment, you are referring to the down tube. Bottle mounts can be brazed into almost any tubing. This did not become standard practice until circa mid to  late seventies, maybe  early eighties in some cases. Many older bikes, both diamond and mixte, have no brazed mounts. They use clamps to hold the cages.  These are still available, at Velo Orange and a few other places. Apologies if you know all this, but it seems from your response that maybe you did not.

The one limiting factor specific to bottle mounts on mixte style frames it the spacing between the top tube (yes, mixtes have a top tube, either single or twin, mixte, side by side) and the down tube is too close, as is often the case on smaller frames. Some frames of either type only had one set of braze-ons.

None of my Le Tour mixte frames have bottle braze-ons. I don't bother clamping cages, since I do not ride these far enough away to get thirsty. Here's a couple on two of my frames from the early 70s:

My simulation of an AHH

My simulation of a Roadeo.

[J Imler]

My mixte-itis remedy was a 59 Clem L.  I had a bad case. I’m glad that’s behind me.

[upyou...@yahoo.com]

HI Leah,

I really want to know how your new Platy rides.  I'm in line for a lovely green one and have never ridden a mixte.  I have an old road bike and an old trail bike.  I ride anywhere from an hour to a week of riding 40 miles a day.  I'm hoping the Platy will cover all my bases and I can unload my old bikes which I do not love. 
Can you confirm that there are braze-ons for 2 water bottles?  You sure do look happy with your bike.  Cheers

Kate 

[Leah Peterson]

Kate! A new #RivSister? Color me delighted! 

You are going to LOVE your new Platy. Love. You can take it off on trails or ride it on the road. You can haul things around with you, commute, run errands, pedal aimlessly - it’s good for it all. I have a Clem, too, and while it is very multidimensional, it is not as fast. The Platy turns so easily and just feels perfect for me. It has the comfort of long chainstays but is not as long as the Clem - it truly does not feel like a long bike to me. The Platy is quick and light and I swear it will be even more so in that gorgeous green. I really am so happy for you. You will show us your bike and report back, won’t you?

Braze-ons - YES! There are two water bottle mounts and I am picturing them below. Mine have some other stuff blocking a great view, but they are there. 

Did I miss anything? Ask all the questions you want. I’m so happy to share.

#RivSisters,

Leah

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On Feb 24, 2021, at 4:02 PM, 'upyou...@yahoo.com' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

HI Leah,

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[Joe Bernard]

The Pro Shop guys (I'm sure I have the name wrong) routed your taillight wire through an eyelet mounted at a cage braze-on. That's pretty sweet! 

[Kate Gilson]

Oh hello new sister!!!! I will post pics. I just spoke with Will last evening and secured myself the green. I’m so nervous and worried since I’ve never ridden a Riv nor have I ever ridden a mixer ha ha. I’ve never had the opportunity to select any parts of a bike before. This is so new I wondered if I made a mistake and should cancel but I came across this group and found your pics and got excited that this could be a real good thing. 

I will sleep better tonight knowing there are 2 sets of braze-ons fir water bottles. 

More questions to follow.

Thanks for connecting. 

Kate from NJ

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2021, at 19:42, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kate! A new #RivSister? Color me delighted! 

You are going to LOVE your new Platy. Love. You can take it off on trails or ride it on the road. You can haul things around with you, commute, run errands, pedal aimlessly - it’s good for it all. I have a Clem, too, and while it is very multidimensional, it is not as fast. The Platy turns so easily and just feels perfect for me. It has the comfort of long chainstays but is not as long as the Clem - it truly does not feel like a long bike to me. The Platy is quick and light and I swear it will be even more so in that gorgeous green. I really am so happy for you. You will show us your bike and report back, won’t you?

Braze-ons - YES! There are two water bottle mounts and I am picturing them below. Mine have some other stuff blocking a great view, but they are there. 

Did I miss anything? Ask all the questions you want. I’m so happy to share.

#RivSisters,

Leah

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[Leah Peterson]

#RivSister Kate, 

I knew less than nothing when I got my first Rivendell - I didn’t even know you could tilt your saddle or raise your handlebars. In fact, in my Facebook memories a memory popped up with me and my first Riv, a Betty Foy mixte, after it had come out of the bike shop. I had apparently been riding it around on bald tires and a cracked rear wheel and never noticed. So, believe me when I tell you: You are doing just fine, and you are a great candidate for a lovely Rivendell mixte. You will adore the ease of mounting it, and dismounting is a cinch, too. Riv is really patient with us newcomers and you can trust them to help you choose the right parts! I recommend the Bosco bars, though. 😃 

Yes, keep the questions coming and if you are on Instagram there are lots of Platy pics on my account, which is the same name as my name on this forum.

So happy you’re here!

Leah

Sent from my iPad

On Feb 24, 2021, at 4:57 PM, 'Kate Gilson' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Oh hello new sister!!!! I will post pics. I just spoke with Will last evening and secured myself the green. I’m so nervous and worried since I’ve never ridden a Riv nor have I ever ridden a mixer ha ha. I’ve never had the opportunity to select any parts of a bike before. This is so new I wondered if I made a mistake and should cancel but I came across this group and found your pics and got excited that this could be a real good thing. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7DB187BB-B090-4519-B8CA-0C2DE063D6E1%40yahoo.com.

[Joe Bernard]

Hi Kate, welcome to the Riv Show 🙋‍♂️

I think you'll love that gorgeous Platypus, it's the business! You can't go wrong with most of Riv's suggestions for parts, but the indexing/friction shifter conundrum may come up and I don't know what you're using on your road and trail bikes (and you may already know what you want and my advice is moot). Friction front is great, but Riv is also a big propronent of friction rear, as are many of its riders. I am not that person, I need clicky shifts for the rear derailleur. My recently-purchased-used Riv Susie came with friction rear and I just replaced it with this clicky-thing..I'll have a friction thumbshifter for the front and this index for the rear, this is a setup Riv offers. 

https://www.rivbike.com/products/kljs-gl46sgg

Joe Bernard

[Roberta]

Welcome new  #RivSister Kate!!!!  I"m in Philadelphia and drive to Morris County every month.  Where are you located?

My story is this:  I rode my high school bike for 15 years or so until it was stolen.  I then got a Specialized hybrid, which I liked a lot but never loved.  After 25 years, I wanted something more comfortable so I could keep doing my weekend rides of perhaps 7 miles.  WELL... I tested a Riv Joe Appaloosa and then gladly handed over my money.  It was more money than I spent on all my bikes, repairs, tires, etc., in my entire life into this one bike.  And, I can say after 3 1/2 years, it was worth it!  Best investment ever!  (BTW, I"m not a bikey person, I just wanted a nice bike to ride.)

Oh, the JOY it brings me and the lack of neck and shoulder pain!  It is SO  pleasurable to ride.  Now, instead of riding 7 miles two days a week,  on the weekends, I ride as many days as I can.  My "short" ride is 12 miles.     Oh, the feeling of getting on a quality bike.  I ride more!  I ride longer!  I ride happier!

I love my diamond framed Joe A, but I'm selling it to get a Platy (I've ordered a Mermaid blue from a Riv dealer) mixte.   The green one is gorgeous and their paint jobs look even better in person.  I"m looking forward to jumping off and not being "worried."  Also  there is a "freeing" feeling when looking down and the top tube isn't so close--more open real estate.

Riv will fix you up with a nice bike with quality parts (quality doesn't always mean expensive).  If you're near Philly, Keystone Bikes is not a Riv dealer, but they are a Riv-loving group, with two of the owners owning Rivs.    Any other quality bike should near you should do.

Please ask lots of questions, read lots of threads and welcome to the group.  You might also look for a thread by Melanie recently (past four weeks???) where she asked about "why a mixte."  

Welcome!  You're in for a real treat!

Roberta

[Roberta]

" You might also look for a thread by Melanie recently (past four weeks???) where she asked about "why a mixte."  "

Oh, duh, this IS Melanie's post! I thought this was in Bicycle Bell Ding Ding's (aka BBDD or Leah) post about the Platys.  We'll that's one worth reading too!

[Kate Gilson]

HI Joe, 

Thank you for the warm welcome.  I appreciate your input as I am just getting started and will have to make this decision for sure.  I am only use to rapid fire thumb shifters on my hybrid and brifters on my road bike.  I don't know anything about friction shifting so I'm not sure if this is for me.  Why didn't you use them for front and back?

Kate

Trenton, NJ

upyou...@yahoo.com

Kate Gilson

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/58ede046-e0c4-4ede-b1dc-aa140d29ec02n%40googlegroups.com

.

[Joe Bernard]

Front indexing works well if you have the exact match of shifter, derailleur and cranks and not at all if one of those pieces doesn't fit. For instance my Rivendell Custom has a Sugino triple with 24-36-44 rings and a Campagnolo triple front derailleur. This works for me but there's no chance I could find a front index shifter to shift it, plus friction shifting front rings is very easy: It's only two or three rings and I can see what the derailleur is doing as I'm moving the lever. I don't have the same "easy" experience with the rear so I go index there. *

* No shade on folks who like front index and can live with the matching bits it requires. Ride what you like! 

[Joe Bernard]

To wrap up my story and possibly amuse anyone who thinks I have the weirdest FrankenShifting ever, here's the shifter. It's a Silver downtube lever on a Paul Thumbie mounted on the right side (arthritis reasons I won't bore anyone with again, most of you have heard it). Enjoy the weird! 

[Tim Baldwin]

Kate, if you're friction curious, Riv has Microshift thumb shifters or Shimano bar end shifters that can switch between friction and index. Then you can try both and see which you prefer. I like friction front and rear myself.

Joe, dig the reverse shifters. Gotta do what works for you.

[upyou...@yahoo.com]

Thanks Tim and Joe for the shifting info and crank pics.  I'm just not sure what way to go with the new Platy.  I will ask for help from Riv HQ on this since I don't know.  I think with a Losco bar I will go with thumb shifters.  Haven't firmed up if I should go 1x11 or compact double.  I ride in flat areas but can also tackle some steep hills here in Central NJ and Bucks County PA.  I would like to have low enough gearing for that.  On my road bike, I rarely use the big ring and don't pedal down hill.  I'm just trying to control my speed mostly and keep it safe with my eye out for deer and critters crossing the road.  

Kate

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Kate,

Welcome! I, too, am awaiting a platypus. I've collected parts over the pandemic and can hardly wait to build it up for the spring season.

For gearing decisions, take a note of your current bike. You mention that you rarely use the big ring. What gearing do you typically use? What low is adequate for your steep climbs in NJ and PA? What is the highest gear that you use? I'd use these points to start my thinking of what cassette and chainring(s) to choose. That might inform whether you can go with 1X or double. 

I've got a Riv S!lver crankset (wide/low with guard). I don't need the small chainring. I might run it as 1X, which will simplify things (no front derailer+shifter needed), but I have the parts and maybe it'll come in handy for an infrequent heavy grocery run or something...

Good luck!

shoji

Arlington MA

[Linda G]

Kate,

    I like a 42/26 compact double in front and an 11-32 cassette.  I can go up steep hills in a sitting position and I have plenty of high gears, never using the outermost cogs on the cassette. At first it was a little embarrassing to think I needed such low gears but I quickly got over it. The gearing was never right for me on production bikes I had in the past. This is the combo I run on my two diamond frame bikes. I'm thinking of redoing my mixte from a triple to a 1x system. The mixte is mostly for around town and I don't climb steep hills. I like the simplest possible solution. There are cassettes that go lower than 32 so maybe you could opt for a 1x with Riv's advice.

Linda

[upyou...@yahoo.com]

Hi Linda,

That sounds like fine gearing to me.  I have a Jamis Coda hybrid bike that is a triple 28/38/48  with a 11-32 cassette.  I'm in the middle/middle most of the time but use the low gearing for sure when loaded or on hills.  

My road bike is a Shimano 9 speed 30/42/53 and I use the lowest granny gears for the long hills here. 

Hi Shoji,

Thanks for your input.  I will look at my current set up to be sure what I have.  

cheers,

Kate