Comebacks for when people think your bikes cost too much

[Kushan]

Wife and recently marked the 10th anniversary and decided to get each other nice presents. She is getting me an Appaloosa built and I got her something she really wanted in the jewelry department (of 20-30% higher value than the bike). 

We are both financially responsible people, don't live lavishly, and can afford both items. However, the reactions of the friends and family who hear about our gifts and their values have been somewhat puzzling for me. While no one has given a second thought to the price of the jewelry, the reactions on the bike have almost universally been that of astonishment. And these are from people who know me well, know I enjoy cycling, and that I only have one bike right now which I am planning to sell when the new one arrives.

So that got me thinking, I can't be the only one who has experienced this. What are some other similar stories? More importantly, what do you say to a well-meaning loved one when they ask things like "$3500 for a bike?" and "but isn't your current bike orange too?"

[Joel S]

Of the few people I have told about the cost of the bikes I have only a couple get it, one is a bike guy.  Most people will not get it.  It’s the same with guitars, cameras, etc.  Best to not discuss with those that really do not get it.  For most $1,000 is an extravagant bike.  Jewelry, watches, best not to discuss.  

[Drw]

I think about this a lot. I currently have vintage bikes that i've spent maybe 300$ total on, and i have 2 rivs that are probably approaching 4k all in. Do they ride THAT differently....not really. Why do i feel the money is justified?

I think one point would be that if you are into bikes, 3k is not crazy. i just perused the specialized website and 3k is sort of in the middle. They have a couple 15,000$ bikes!?! all of their gravel bikes are kind of in the rivendell range- some more, some less.

Another point could be about bikes and parts made responsibly in the US or other places that i trust rivendell to source from. A friend of mine needed some cantilever brakes recently and texted me "i dont know who PAUL is, but he seems pretty full of himself."... which was a joke. I get it though, to a non bike person, why would you pay 200$ for brakes when you can buy 30$ tektros. 

and then lastly, i rely on, "This is my hobby. i dont drive a fancy car. i cook my own food. this is the thing that i like to spend what little extra money i have on." Whoever you are talking to also has their thing,  and if they can link that your thing, to you, is equal to their thing, to them,  its a good start i think. 

[Ian A]

Most people understand watches, so the example can be compared to buying a Rolex or a Grand Seiko vs a Timex. 

Between 2009-2011 I spent the two years riding 20,000 miles from Vancouver BC to the tip of South America (Ushuaia) then north as far as Uruguay. I had bought a used touring bike for US$650, spent a bit on upgrading the wheels, bought used panniers and lots of used gear and was probably tour-ready for under. $1500. I travelled on the cheap by avoiding hotels. One evening in rural Colombia where I camped outside an army baracks (with their permission) a couple of gents I was chatting with had an old 250cc motorbike. They asked my how much I had paid for the bicycle and I said approximately $1000 and they were gobsmacked and told me the motorbike was only worth $500. I asked if the motorbike would make it from Canada and be able to continue to Argentina. Their response was hillarious as they said they wouldn't trust the motorbike to the end of their road and acknowedged a bicycle that could go all that way would have to cost some. It put the price/value equation into some perspective.

IanA Alberta Canada (That tour was the last interesting thing I have done!).

[Benjamin L. Kelley]

I generally remind them it's less expensive than most peoples cars. Then I remind them that I don't own a car and that my bike is my transportation.

--ben in KC, celebrating 5 years of being car free in car country this summer.

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[Matthew Williams]

I like the line I heard from my friends who built and rode motorcycles:

"If I have to explain, you'd never understand."

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[Joe Bernard]

If I have to explain you better be married to me. Otherwise we're not discussing the price of my bicycle. 

[Garth]

I'd likely shrug my shoulders and smile.

I put myself in the "other" shoes, so to speak. From that position, fully aware of the comedic situation I apparently now find myself playing "both".....I "return" to where I never left. 

So where's the offense, the call for justice, equality and such ?

Nowhere.

Now what ? 

I shrug my shoulders and laugh, smile . 

[Philip Barrett]

I typically find that the critics are the same people who eat out 3 times a week & a buy a new car every 2 years. $,3500? You know, same as you lost in depreciation when you drove off the dealer lot last week!

[Jay LePree]

"My dog did decided not to go to college".  

[Johnny Alien]

I don't ever discuss how much anything cost with anyone. Solves lots of problems. :)

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 8:12:57 PM UTC-7 Kushan wrote:

So that got me thinking, I can't be the only one who has experienced this. What are some other similar stories? More importantly, what do you say to a well-meaning loved one when they ask things like "$3500 for a bike?" and "but isn't your current bike orange too?"

I'm probably pre-conditioned and biased, but $3.5k seems like a good deal for a nice complete bike like an Appaloosa. WorldTour road bikes are $8k and up (>$12k for a few, excluding fancy wheels), and World Cup mountain bikes are similarly priced. Looking at the other end of the spectrum, the cheap (and I don't mean inexpensive) bike-shaped objects sold at Target and Walmart are just wasteful expenditures of natural resources that are analogous to Harbor Freight and Old Navy stuff – good enough in a pinch, but wouldn't want to use them long-term.

Looking at the items themselves, bicycles are useful devices whereas jewelry is mostly for show. In addition, a bicycle like an Appaloosa, if well cared for and properly maintained, will likely last for decades. Amortized over such a long period, even including replacing consumables, $3.5k is an absolutely steal. And we haven't gone into the physical and mental healthful aspects that riding a bicycle can bring, nor the fact that if you use a bicycle for short trips, you're effectively extending the useful life of your car and helping keep climate change at bay.

Think of bicycles as rideable art that can just about save the world — Grant Petersen

[aeroperf]

The only people who have ever asked the price were fellow bicyclists.  They usually preface the question with “Nice bike!”
I note that most ride carbon frames, and don’t bat an eye because their bikes typically cost more.
And I only think they asked because they recognize that it is a modern lugged steel bike.

It is an interesting point, however.  I’ve become well acquainted with the owner of an LBS, who has an RB-1.
His comment - “The boomers come in here and drop 2, 3, 4 grand on a bike.  They want carbon.  They want Ultegra.  I’m glad to sell it to them, if I have it.”

Well-meaning loved ones know that I owned a Lotus 7 sports car for 30 years.  “I sold the Lotus and bought a bike” would suffice.

[Kushan]

Thank you all for the interesting perspectives. Keep'em coming. 

I agree that how we spend the money is our business and don't need validation from anyone else. However things always get interesting in a family like mine with boundary issues when it comes to cost of things (the first things my uncles, aunts, and cousins asked me when we got our first home or get a new job was "how much?" :) ).

I think the biggest surprise for me was that there was the lack of similar to my wife's similarly priced jewelary. As a culture, we have accepted cost of things like cars, vacations, jewelry, fancy dinners. Even the simple analysis will concede that you get a lot of value out of a good bike. But most people,, unless you're a cyslist yourself, still think of bikes as kids plaything (as opposed to a form of recreation or transportation) and so anything above $1k triggers a reaction. 

[Jason Fuller]

With all respect to your wife's taste in jewelry, I just can't get past the fact that people question spending a few thousand dollars on a complex and immensely useful machine like a bike, but don't bat an eye and spending that kind of money on a few grams of stone and metal that has no moving parts and offers no function beyond being an accessory.  What a wild society we are a part of! 

I would just counter that this is what a bike costs if you want dependable, quality parts made by fairly paid people - and that in the long run, it'll be a good deal, because it's made to last.  (Plus it has super high resale value but I prefer not to think about selling!)

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Most people understand the concept of a "mid-life crisis car".  I can buy 10 bikes for the price of the "crisis" car, which I will never buy, so I don't feel too bad.  Yes, it is non-essential to buy such a "fancy" bike, but it is used and has big contributions to my health and well being.

Toshi

[Matthew Williams]

As someone elsewhere suggested,

"Maybe forty-year-old men driving sports cars aren't going through a midlife crisis. Instead, they can finally afford the car they wanted when they were twenty."

On Jun 28, 2021, at 11:41 AM, Toshi Takeuchi <tto...@gmail.com> wrote:

Most people understand the concept of a "mid-life crisis car".  I can buy 10 bikes for the price of the "crisis" car, which I will never buy, so I don't feel too bad.  Yes, it is non-essential to buy such a "fancy" bike, but it is used and has big contributions to my health and well being.

Toshi

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[Toshi Takeuchi]

True, true, and I am able to afford my bicycle now, although I will leave you to guess whether any existential crisis was involved with my purchase :).

Toshi

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[Philip Barrett]

Since my wife just bought this as a retirement gift for herself she's starting to resent the assumption that desirable ICE vehicles are purely a male domain!

[Joe Bernard]

At first I was like "cool race bike replica" then I realized..that's a race bike! 

[Philip Barrett]

Wondered who would catch that! Toni Elias' 2016 Championship Superbike, not exactly road legal there er...officer.

Or "Jewelry by Yoshimura?"

[Joe Bernard]

I hope she got the giant sunglasses, too 😎 *

* Sorry everybody, I know nobody else knows what we're babbling about 😋

[Benjamin L. Kelley]

Do they have zwift fake indoor "riding" for motorcycles too? or is that trainer looking apparatus just for moving it around?

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[velomann]

There are so many possible comebacks...

As others have pointed out, f you're not a bike person, that world is a different planet for you, as evidenced by transportation planners and politicians who can't see beyond bikes as toys that some adults apparently haven't outgrown.

I realize this doesn't apply universally, but for me if I felt the need to justify the costs (I don't), it would go something like this. there's four of us living in our home and we've chosen to own one car. I ride everywhere. AAA estimates the cost of owning a car (NOT counting the purchase price) at about $800/month, which includes insurance, fuel, maintenance, depreciation, licensing, etc. And that does not count the health care cost incurred by people who live a sedentary lifestyle. I'm 61 years old, weigh the same as I did 30 years ago, my resting heart rate is in the low 50s, and I spent zero on prescription drugs last year. It's not all about the bike, but a lot of it is. And every time I ride I smile. Every. Time. Which from what I can see is not the experience of most of the drivers around me.

Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a bike and that's pretty close.

Mike M

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 8:12:57 PM UTC-7 Kushan wrote:

[Philip Barrett]

There's no integrated stand (Grant would have a field day with this) so this is used to support the bike sans rider. But your idea is actually pretty brilliant, except for the carbon monoxide part I guess?

[Jeffrey Arita]

I 100% agree with Joel Stern - better to simply not state how much it cost.  Cost, like many things, is relative.  What is inexpensive for some is extravagant for others.  Keep the cost private.

Jeff

Claremont, CA

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-7 Joel S wrote:

[Kushan]

Speaking of mid-life crisis car, I am going to need one of these for my bike :) 

[A. Douglas M.]

This is such an interesting topic from a sociological perspective. 

The idea that we don’t want to talk about costs with others has always confused me. My wife says it’s because people make judgments about others, but who cares?

Ultimately, it’s a conversation about the application of subjective values. Do Rivendells cost a lot? To me, with my income, yes. To others with theirs, no. Do I think they’re a great bargain? Totally. Do I care if someone thinks I spent too much? No. Unless I overpaid out of ignorance, but that’s really my own fault.

I wouldn’t want a comeback for someone having a different opinion of value than me. It’s one of the great things about people. We value things differently. Even people spending the same amount on a specialized carbon bike would think were silly for spending that much on a heavy steel bike. And what do we think of their purchase?

Did you know some people don’t like Brussels sprouts? I can’t believe it either.

Best,

Aaron in El Paso 

[dougP]

When I'm asked the "how much it costs?" question by non-bike people, my response is "...oh, are you interested in getting one?..."  If the answer is "no", my rude response is "then it doesn't matter".  It's curt enough to end the conversation.  I recall the old adage about someone who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing. 

dougP

On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 2:21:23 PM UTC-7 Jeffrey Arita wrote:

[JRStern11]

I grew up in metro NY, we always asked what something costs, it was an ok thing to do.   I moved to CT after grad school, then later to MA.  That’s when I learned here it is considered rude to ask what something cost.  But a little preface, ‘do you mind if I ask’ goes a long way.  Still, I don’t like to talk about cost of things with those that would not get it.  

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS

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[Clark Fitzgerald]

"Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a bike and that's pretty close." - Mike M

I'm going to use this line!

[Tom M]

Amortize the cost: $3600 / 10 years = ~$360 / year = $30 / month = ~$1 / day = low price for happiness.

Tom 

Alexandria, VA 

[Philip Barrett]

On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 7:30:09 PM UTC-5 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

"Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a bike and that's pretty close." - Mike M

I'm going to use this line!

I've got another one for you from the fuddled mind of mine;

If you strive to be happy you will never be content.

If you strive to be content you will always be happy

 

[Brian Campbell]

Take them to a bike shop. Most people are out of touch relative to the cost of a modern bicycle. I have found that most folks seem to equate bicyles with childrens toys and as such, interact with them mos;ty in big box store toy departments. 

On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 6:39:56 AM UTC-4 philipr...@gmail.com wrote:

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Yeah, Riv bikes are a baa-gn compared to the space age composite frames and electrified drive trains on these bikes that are meant to be replaced when the latest "improved" model comes out.

Toshi

[Michael Morrissey]

I think it's not price itself so much as priorities. It's important to remember that the bicycle remains relatively countercultural. No matter what the price tag is, it's still outside of the house/cars/kids/food pyramid of needs for most American people. 

Here's an article from The New Yorker:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-bicycle-as-a-vehicle-of-protest

"These regimes recognized the bicycle for what it is: an emblem of freedom. The invention of the bicycle was the realization of an ancient dream. It was the elusive personal-transport device, a contraption that liberated humans from their dependency on draft animals, allowing individuals to move swiftly across land under their own power. Long after its primacy was usurped by the automobile, the bicycle retained a unique appeal."

[Clark Fitzgerald]

Here's a comeback:

I spent all my money on bikes, books, and beer. The rest I just wasted.

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[Mike Godwin]

That is pretty dang cool Phillip. Do you get to ride it too?

Off to Willow Springs, or? 

Mike "former Suzuki GSXR 750 owner" SLO CA

On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 1:34:23 PM UTC-7 philipr...@gmail.com wrote:

[Ben Mihovk]

Nobody has asked…I don’t really have any friends who know enough about bikes to know what they’re looking at (but they do appreciate the Atlantis color and the Russian sub backstory). 

But…I’d happily let anyone know how long I wanted a Riv, how I saved up from my part-time job for almost a year to pay for it without charging it. It’s been one of the best experiences of my life, hands down…from deciding to do it, from the first time I called Riv and talked to Vince, to the day it came and I assembled it (after watching the YouTube video of Mark assembling a packed bike every morning for a month!). 

So if anyone balks at the price, I’m guessing after I explain all of the above they’ll either be excited for me or will change the subject to get me to shut up.

Ben

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 1, 2021, at 10:05 AM, Brian Campbell <bdcamp...@gmail.com> wrote:

Take them to a bike shop. Most people are out of touch relative to the cost of a modern bicycle. I have found that most folks seem to equate bicyles with childrens toys and as such, interact with them mos;ty in big box store toy departments. 

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[lconley]

I have been explaining about what ridiculous prices I paid for a bike since 1972 when I paid $250 for a used Gitane Tour de France (lugged Reynolds 531 frame with Campagnolo hubs and derailleurs and included a set of Rivat cycling shoes that actually fit and had Vittoria silk sew-ups). This was when a Schwinn Varsity Sport 10 speed was less than $80.

Laing

[Craig Montgomery]

I just tell'em there are bikes for kids to do kid things, and there are bikes for adults to do adult things. Or I've used, When you drive a '61 Ford Falcon, you know you're in a '61 Ford Falcon. When you drive a Mercedes 380SL, you know you're in a 380SL. Bikes are the same way. Though I do miss my '63 Ranchero with a 260 and 4 speed. 

Craig in Tucson 

[Nick Payne]

My brother-in-law's main hobbies are fishing and scuba diving. He recently had to replace the twin outboard motors on his boat at about $15000 per motor (it's quite a large boat), and he has a $70000 top of the line Landcruiser to be able to tow said boat to the places where he wants to go fishing and diving, as quite a lot of these places are well off the beaten track.

By comparison, the few thousand I spend here and there on bikes is chicken feed. And I get to ride my bikes almost every day, whereas he's lucky if he can get out on his boat once a fortnight.

Nick