Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Joel S]

I used the finish line product but it goes very fast, then greased with finis line.  Have hear talk of using a citrus based product.  Will use with the park chain cleaning tank.  Any recommendations?

Thank you

Joel 

[Ray]

Simple Green. It might be my favorite product of any variety ever period. It's like magic.

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 10:38:24 AM UTC-7 Joel S wrote:

I used the finish line product but it goes very fast, then greased with finis line.  Have hear talk of using a citrus based product.  Will use with the park chain cleaning tank.  Any recommendations?

Finish Line citrus degreaser is one of the strongest degreasers I've tried outside of industrial degreasers. If you require its full degreasing power, you'll find that the popular alternatives like Simple Green probably won't work as well. In between Simple Green and Finish Line citrus degreaser are the automotive degreasers. I find full-strength Purple Power to be sufficiently powerful enough to easily degrease chains and chainrings. It's also remarkably inexpensive, with gallon jugs selling for about $5 at Walmart.

If you still want to continue with citrus degreaser, try buying in bulk from non-bicycle sources. They're usually sold as "100% D-Limonene" for much less than $14/20oz.

[Tom M]

I'm a big fan of the El Duke degreaser Rivendell sells. Works amazingly well. Silca sells these gear wipes (https://silca.cc/collections/workbench/products/hirobel-gear-wipes-canister-110-sheets) I've taken to using on our bikes after wet rides. One towel will pretty much clean a whole bike, though maybe not the chain or cassette. Saves the need to use an old T-shirt and a separate degreaser.

Tom Milani

Alexandria, VA

[aeroperf]

What Ray said - Simple Green.  It works in my chain cleaner, is easily available, and cheap.

Finish Line is another citrus based product, but pricey.

I've stayed away from Purple Power since the manufacturer says:

"Purple Power is not recommended for use when washing cars as it could possibly destroy the clear coat surface and damage the paint."

"Do not use Purple Power on Stainless Steel or Aluminum as it could leave white streaks or a hazy film. If accidentally used on Stainless Steel or Aluminum and you have this residue, try buffing with a Metal Polish, such as Wenols or Mothers Metal Polish to restore finish."

"Purple Power is not recommended for use on Chrome or Copper.  Chrome can become etched and will be permanently damaged."

Since my Sam has painted surfaces, aluminum chainrings, and some chrome bits, I'll stick with Simple Green.

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Ray.

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[Joel Stern]

Thanks Benz.  Basically just to keep the chain clean, especially after season for winter storage.  

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[Joel Stern]

Thanks aeroperf. 

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[Tim Quinlan]

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 1:52 PM Ray <rah...@g.clemson.edu> wrote:

Simple Green. It might be my favorite product of any variety ever period. It's like magic.

Also works great as a laundry pre-treatment for greasy clothes. 

Tim, Pittsburgh, PA, USA

[Ray Varella]

I also use simple green. 

I use diesel fuel for my parts cleaning. I find it works very well as a solvent and even if you leave it uncovered, the evaporation rate is extremely slow. 

Back to simple green, you can adjust the ratio of cleaner to water if you buy the concentrate. 

Here’s my endorsement: I drive rigs and occasionally someone will drag the air lines and power cord across the 5th wheel skid plate. 

These skid plates are covered with the thickest, dirtiest most tenacious grease you’ve ever gotten on yourself. 

A couple applications of simple green and a shop rag will wipe away a thick coating of this greasy mess. 

No part on any bicycle will ever accumulate this sort of grease. 

It’s also safe to use on many other household chores. 

Ray

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Ray.  I ordered some the other day but always good to get another endorsement. 

Joel

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[James / Analog Cycles]

As a mechanic for the last 20+ years, I'll add my two cents here.  Park chain cleaner boxes are a hot mess, and degreaser is bad.  We don't even have degreaser in the shop.  I just keep it around the house to clean up bacon splatters and grease stains on my pants.  

Here's a write up from our site on prolink, but it talks about cleaning a chain, how to do it, how to relube, with no box, minimal mess, no premature drivetrain wear:

Chain lube should keep your chain lubed, not looking nice.  Clean lubes are giving something up to be clean. Maybe it’s the need to apply to a completely clean chain, maybe they don’t protect against rust as well, but there is no free lunch. Clean lubes are not as effective at protecting your chain as greasy gross wet lubes.  Is the ball joint of your car clean? Heck no, it’s horrible, covered in a goopy mess of black grease. You don’t see them using ‘clean’ or clear grease in there.

Prolink makes a good really thin chain lube.  It’s like WD-40, but for bikes. WD-40 has a whole bunch of solvents in it.  These help break down rust and flush out thicker lubes. When the solvents dry, there is a bit of lube in the WD-40.  Not enough to actually do a good job lubing a chain, but enough to keep a door hinge swinging freely. Prolink is similar, but it has a higher lube content.  Still a ton of solvents, but more lube. That means Prolink is a great lube to clean your chain with. What??!

Cleaning your chain with degreaser is bonkers.  If the degreaser is strong enough to break down the old chain lube, guess what, it’s strong enough to keep the fresh stuff from getting in.  Sure, you can flush the chain with water, after degreasing it, then use a combo of time and an air compressor to blow the water out of the chain.  Me, I don’t like to use an air compressor on a chain. Not only is it hard on our generator, but it also flings black water all over the place, including but not limited such places as your rims, tan sidewalls and disc rotors.  Just air drying a chain could take over a day. I don’t have time for that. I have firewood to process. If you clean your chain with prolink, you flush two things outta the chain: grit (composed of road grit and bits of your chain) and old lube.  

Continue on for more True Facts about Chain Lube:

Analog’s Cardinal Rules of Chain Lube:

• Chain lube (or anything really) should NOT have PTFE in it.  Why not? It’s exceptionally bad for the environment.  Actually it’s inordinately bad for everything.  
• Chain lube should not cost an arm and a leg.  Even our favorite lubes really, should be cheaper.  I wish we found a cheap, good, bio lube that we could sell.  But as it is, the two lubes we offer are pretty cheap, in the scheme of things.
• Chain lube shouldn’t have wax in it.  It clumps, esp in cold weather. 
• Chain lube should keep your chain lubed, not looking nice.  Clean lubes are giving something up to be clean. Maybe it’s the need to apply to a completely clean chain, maybe they don’t protect against rust as well, but there is no free lunch. Clean lubes are not as effective at protecting your chain as greasy gross wet lubes.  Is the ball joint of your car clean? Heck no, it’s horrible, covered in a goopy mess of black grease. You don’t see them using ‘clean’ or clear grease in there.
• Chain lube should be easy on, and relatively easy off.  You shouldn’t have to take your chain off, or scrub your cassette, or take a dental pick to your derailleur pulleys every time you wanna lube your chain.  If your chain isn’t horrendously gross looking, you should be able to just add a bit more lube and keep going. If it’s really bad, you should be able to clean it, with a rag, while on the bike.  If you can’t, you have the wrong lube.
• Ideally, chain lube should be sticky enough to last for a few weeks of riding in whatever conditions you like to ride in.  So in the winter, your lube should be heavier and stickier, and in the dry of summer, it can be thinner, if it’s not all rainy and muddy out.  
• That’s it.  

The process is super simple:  Shift into the big ring up front and the hardest gear in the back.  Apply Prolink generously, so that when you stop pedaling, it’s dripping on the floor.  Do something else for a few minutes. For instance, buy a water bottle from us.  Then mosey back over.  The solvent has done its thing.  Take a dry T shirt, preferably your roommates, and drag the chain through it, holding the chain very loosely in a bundle of shirt.  You can do this on the upper run of chain or the lower. I don’t care, just don’t get your fingers caught in the chainrings. Pedal backward.  Keep flipping the shirt to a fresh spot of cotton and keep wiping. Do this routine until the chain is coated and wet looking but not black with oil.  If you are riding in nice dry weather, boom, that’s it, you are done. If you are riding in the rain, or mud, or snow, etc, you are not done. Leave the chain alone and go buy a hat from us.  When you come back in five minutes, most of the solvents will have evaporated out.  You can skip this step if you are in a hurry.

Now, grab your other bottle of lube, Finish Line’s wet chain lube (Phil’s oil also works fine but it’s double the cost with no noticeable benefit) and apply a thin stream of that to the chain.  Get it fully coated, but you don’t need a gallon of the stuff. Just make sure the rollers and side plates are covered with a thin layer.  Wipe off the excess, good to go.

Prolink is the only lube I have used that pulls bits of metal out of the chain’s rollers.  The chain gets grit in the rollers, and that grit acts like sand paper and wears the chain down.  The little bits of metal that flake off further wear the chain down. Removing those is muy bueno.  Prolink does that. Finish line wet lube is just a cheap, goopy lube that keeps the chain running quietly and does well with wet weather.  It’s sticky and dark green and gross, which are all good traits in a heavy duty bad conditions lube. It comes off easily with Prolink. Reapply when the chain is either noisy, has some surface rust, or because you are about to go on a big bike trip.  Clean it with Prolink a few times a year, or when it’s really mucked up and gross.

Now go throw out that silly chain cleaner, and use that Simple Green on what it was intended for: pizza stains on your favorite concert Tee.  Actually, use Miracle Red for that, it’s better. 

- James / Analog Cycles / Tanglefoot Cycles / Fifth Season Canvas / Discord Components

[ascpgh]

Thanks for that perspective compendium James. Much of what becomes contentious about various lubes does focus on a very narrow aspect of its function (or impact) and environment of use.  Props for the article too. Time remains the most powerful legal tool.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh 

[Patrick Moore]

James: I'm curious what chain lube and what chain maintenance you would recommend for very dusty or sandy riding conditions -- Albuquerque has little grass on the verges and a great deal of sand even on pavement; I ride in sand off road

I've used very many of the "dry lubes" momentarily popular between about 1990 and 2010, with sporadic tests of later ones to the present; the best I've used (without doing any serious comparison tests) being ProLink, Purple something or another, and currently Rock 'n' Roll "Gold" -- all of these applied sparingly and then wiped, wiped, wiped lasting ~400 miles of pavement and at least 200 miles of riverine silt.

But a few years ago I started using Molten Speed Wax, and this seems to be a good compromise between ease of maintenance and length of lubrication: ~200 miles in dirt, double that on pavement; this of course in dry conditions -- ~9" precipitation per year, max. That is twice plain old paraffin, even with small quantities of stuff like transmission fluid and 30 weight added.

My target in all of this experimentation was to keep grit off the outside of the chain, in the belief that this grit would wear down the cogs and rings if not the innards of the chain. 

The wax process is easy with a crockpot and master link: remover chain, coil, and drape over wax; plug and wait for ~2 hours (depends on ambient temp and crockpot), pluck out carefully, wipe, let cool, and install; add drop of ProLink to masterlink. No need to clean chain after initial cleaning.

But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity. Actually, my rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and also shifting performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.

Thoughts and suggestions?

Thanks.

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 7:59 AM James / Analog Cycles <analog...@gmail.com> wrote:

As a mechanic for the last 20+ years, I'll add my two cents here.  Park chain cleaner boxes are a hot mess, and degreaser is bad.  We don't even have degreaser in the shop.  I just keep it around the house to clean up bacon splatters and grease stains on my pants.  

Here's a write up from our site on prolink, but it talks about cleaning a chain, how to do it, how to relube, with no box, minimal mess, no premature drivetrain wear:

Chain lube should keep your chain lubed, not looking nice.  Clean lubes are giving something up to be clean. Maybe it’s the need to apply to a completely clean chain, maybe they don’t protect against rust as well, but there is no free lunch. Clean lubes are not as effective at protecting your chain as greasy gross wet lubes.  Is the ball joint of your car clean? Heck no, it’s horrible, covered in a goopy mess of black grease. You don’t see them using ‘clean’ or clear grease in there.

Prolink makes a good really thin chain lube.  It’s like WD-40, but for bikes. WD-40 has a whole bunch of solvents in it.  These help break down rust and flush out thicker lubes. When the solvents dry, there is a bit of lube in the WD-40.  Not enough to actually do a good job lubing a chain, but enough to keep a door hinge swinging freely. Prolink is similar, but it has a higher lube content.  Still a ton of solvents, but more lube. That means Prolink is a great lube to clean your chain with. What??!

Cleaning your chain with degreaser is bonkers.  If the degreaser is strong enough to break down the old chain lube, guess what, it’s strong enough to keep the fresh stuff from getting in.  Sure, you can flush the chain with water, after degreasing it, then use a combo of time and an air compressor to blow the water out of the chain.  Me, I don’t like to use an air compressor on a chain. Not only is it hard on our generator, but it also flings black water all over the place, including but not limited such places as your rims, tan sidewalls and disc rotors.  Just air drying a chain could take over a day. I don’t have time for that. I have firewood to process. If you clean your chain with prolink, you flush two things outta the chain: grit (composed of road grit and bits of your chain) and old lube.  

Continue on for more True Facts about Chain Lube:

Analog’s Cardinal Rules of Chain Lube:

• Chain lube (or anything really) should NOT have PTFE in it.  Why not? It’s exceptionally bad for the environment.  Actually it’s inordinately bad for everything.  
• Chain lube should not cost an arm and a leg.  Even our favorite lubes really, should be cheaper.  I wish we found a cheap, good, bio lube that we could sell.  But as it is, the two lubes we offer are pretty cheap, in the scheme of things.
• Chain lube shouldn’t have wax in it.  It clumps, esp in cold weather. 
• Chain lube should keep your chain lubed, not looking nice.  Clean lubes are giving something up to be clean. Maybe it’s the need to apply to a completely clean chain, maybe they don’t protect against rust as well, but there is no free lunch. Clean lubes are not as effective at protecting your chain as greasy gross wet lubes.  Is the ball joint of your car clean? Heck no, it’s horrible, covered in a goopy mess of black grease. You don’t see them using ‘clean’ or clear grease in there.
• Chain lube should be easy on, and relatively easy off.  You shouldn’t have to take your chain off, or scrub your cassette, or take a dental pick to your derailleur pulleys every time you wanna lube your chain.  If your chain isn’t horrendously gross looking, you should be able to just add a bit more lube and keep going. If it’s really bad, you should be able to clean it, with a rag, while on the bike.  If you can’t, you have the wrong lube.
• Ideally, chain lube should be sticky enough to last for a few weeks of riding in whatever conditions you like to ride in.  So in the winter, your lube should be heavier and stickier, and in the dry of summer, it can be thinner, if it’s not all rainy and muddy out.  
• That’s it.  

The process is super simple:  Shift into the big ring up front and the hardest gear in the back.  Apply Prolink generously, so that when you stop pedaling, it’s dripping on the floor.  Do something else for a few minutes. For instance, buy a water bottle from us.  Then mosey back over.  The solvent has done its thing.  Take a dry T shirt, preferably your roommates, and drag the chain through it, holding the chain very loosely in a bundle of shirt.  You can do this on the upper run of chain or the lower. I don’t care, just don’t get your fingers caught in the chainrings. Pedal backward.  Keep flipping the shirt to a fresh spot of cotton and keep wiping. Do this routine until the chain is coated and wet looking but not black with oil.  If you are riding in nice dry weather, boom, that’s it, you are done. If you are riding in the rain, or mud, or snow, etc, you are not done. Leave the chain alone and go buy a hat from us.  When you come back in five minutes, most of the solvents will have evaporated out.  You can skip this step if you are in a hurry.

Now, grab your other bottle of lube, Finish Line’s wet chain lube (Phil’s oil also works fine but it’s double the cost with no noticeable benefit) and apply a thin stream of that to the chain.  Get it fully coated, but you don’t need a gallon of the stuff. Just make sure the rollers and side plates are covered with a thin layer.  Wipe off the excess, good to go.

Prolink is the only lube I have used that pulls bits of metal out of the chain’s rollers.  The chain gets grit in the rollers, and that grit acts like sand paper and wears the chain down.  The little bits of metal that flake off further wear the chain down. Removing those is muy bueno.  Prolink does that. Finish line wet lube is just a cheap, goopy lube that keeps the chain running quietly and does well with wet weather.  It’s sticky and dark green and gross, which are all good traits in a heavy duty bad conditions lube. It comes off easily with Prolink. Reapply when the chain is either noisy, has some surface rust, or because you are about to go on a big bike trip.  Clean it with Prolink a few times a year, or when it’s really mucked up and gross.

Now go throw out that silly chain cleaner, and use that Simple Green on what it was intended for: pizza stains on your favorite concert Tee.  Actually, use Miracle Red for that, it’s better. 

- James / Analog Cycles / Tanglefoot Cycles / Fifth Season Canvas / Discord Components

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

Sheesh: More clearly and accurately: the main criteria are: chain and cog longevity; shifting performance; time between lubes; ease of lubing and cleaning; and distant fourth, a clean chain exterior. 

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 6:44 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

... But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity. Actually, my rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and also shifting performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.

Thoughts and suggestions?

Thanks.

[James / Analog Cycles]

Hi Patrick,

By your own writing, you have the same maintenance interval with prolink as you do with wax.  400 miles on road, 200 off.  I'd say the difference is ease of use with prolink.  It's faster, and all you need is a rag and prolink.  It's less expensive.  It cleans the chain, which wax does not.  It has no PTFE, which is just about the worst thing you can use on your bike if you are fond of the outdoors.  Ski resorts are ahead of the game on this, banning PTFE from ski waxes on their slopes.  

So, really, I'd recommend the same thing we use up here in the wet.  Prolink and a rag.  I wouldn't apply the prolink sparingly, it only works as a cleaner if you get it dripping wet.  Let it sit for a just a few minutes, then wipe 95% of it off.  Done.  10 minutes, tops, with the post lube rim cleaning.

Obviously, everyone is gunna have their own best method.  I want mine to be fast, effective, affordable and relatively eco friendly.  BTW, if anyone has used a GOOD actual eco lube, I'm all ears.  I've tried many, been impressed by none.  Requirements: has to be available stateside.  Not very eco friendly to fly lube over from England.

-James

[Joel Stern]

I ride on dry Conditions only and was steered to Fastline dry lube.  I also read about Rock and Roll gold.  For my riding are you saying Prolink, and no degreaser? 

Thanks

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[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, James. I've recently applied "Rock 'n' Roll Gold" which I guess is a "dry" lube to a chain and wiped and wiped; was surprised to see how dry the outside of the chain felt the next morning. I'll have to test this again with a little more attention to see if it holds the squeaks at bay for 400 miles (road bike) and to see if the outside of the chain remains clean. If it works, I may switch to this or to Pro Link again.

The wax method does clean the chain, btw; first, there's very little dirt that accumulates on the chain, and second, what does falls off in the melted wax and forms a sludge on the bottom of the crockpot.

But easy as waxing is, you are right, applying Pro Link, etc to the chain while it is on the bike, and wiping half a dozen times is easier yet.

Aside: Long ago -- 2010? -- I used White Lightning, supposed to be dry and clean. It didn't attract sand, but it built up thick coils of grunge on the cogs that you had to scrape off. I'm still finishing up the last 8 oz bottle, probably a good 8-10 years old, by putting a bit on my pedals' clip mechanism every so often; not sure it does much good ...

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[James / Analog Cycles]

Hi Joel, 

I'd say for everyone who values their time, and wants a functional drivetrain, a bottle of prolink is the current best bet on the market. If you have wet conditions, use prolink to clean, and finish line wet lube to lube.  

-James

[James / Analog Cycles]

Hi Patrick,

Between Rock n Roll and Prolink, I'd recommend Prolink.  No PTFE.  Read up on it if you have never done so.  Rock N Roll Gold is just teflon solids suspended in solvent, more or less.

I'd have to look at the sludge that falls off the chain.  The crud you are trying to get rid of isn't dirt per se, it's the metal filing the chain produces in the course of use.  Those, when trapped in the rollers, are a bigger source of chain wear than anything else I can think of.  If there is no metal in the sludge, it's just a superficial cleaning.  

Best, james

[Joel Stern]

Thanks James

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[Patrick Moore]

Thanks; wasn't aware of the PTFE. And I see just now that ProLink Gold has very good reviews; Ed Pavelka for one. And, it's a known -- to me -- quantity.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 8:41 AM James / Analog Cycles <analog...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Patrick,

Between Rock n Roll and Prolink, I'd recommend Prolink.  No PTFE.  Read up on it if you have never done so.  Rock N Roll Gold is just teflon solids suspended in solvent, more or less.

I'd have to look at the sludge that falls off the chain.  The crud you are trying to get rid of isn't dirt per se, it's the metal filing the chain produces in the course of use.  Those, when trapped in the rollers, are a bigger source of chain wear than anything else I can think of.  If there is no metal in the sludge, it's just a superficial cleaning.  

[Todd G.]

I’ve been using Dumonde Tech for a number of years and like it. I use it year round, and it seems to do the job for me. It lasts somewhere around 150 miles or so before I feel the need to wipe the chain down and re-apply the lube.

Around a year ago, a friend gave me a bottle of Muc Off dry lube. I was a little skeptical at first because when I was a kid I used White Lightening dry lube, and it was a hot mess. So taking in to consideration I didn’t really know what the heck I was doing at that time, I used it. A sit turns out I really like the stuff, especially in dusty dry conditions. My entire drivetrain stays pretty clean, however I don’t feel like I get very much mileage out of a single application. 75 miles or so and I feel like I need to wipe down the chain and re-apply.

 

I have some Rock-n-Roll gold that I have had sitting in a cabinet for somewhere around 10 years or so. I need to finish the bottle off. I have no idea what it was that I heard, but I heard something about the owner of Rock-n-Roll that really rubbed me the wrong way. This was at least 10 years ago. So, now that I can’t recall what it was that I heard, maybe I’ll get a few rides in with it on a clean chain and report back. FOr whatver it’s worth, I feel like the Muc Off keeps the drivetrain the cleanest overall.

As far as cleaning, sometimes I use the Sonic Cleaner at work, sometimes I remove teh chain and put it into a screw top container filled with warm water and a gentle eco-friendly laundry detergent, and shake, shake, shake, air dry, or let it bake in the sun until it is completely dry. Those two are my best and most favorite methods. Between lubes I run the chain through a shop rag for a minute or so, changing to clean spots on the rag, then re-apply lube, run t through one more time to remove any excess, and I’m ready to ride.

That’s my routine for the most part. I don’t really deviate from that, and I get good mileage out of my drivetrains, so I’m sticking to it!