Can someone do a timeline on where Rivs were made and when?

[Joel S]

I had an first run Rambouillet and Saluki, I just assumed they were USA made.  I see a lot of posts saying Toyo so I am not sure if this was for the original runs or a bit later runs.  I always thought the first not made in USA was the MIT Bleriot.

Thanks

Joel

[Steve Palincsar]

Rambouillet and Saluki were made by Toyo in Japan.  They never were US made.

On 10/31/20 10:52 AM, Joel S wrote:

I had an first run Rambouillet and Saluki, I just assumed they were USA made.  I see a lot of posts saying Toyo so I am not sure if this was for the original runs or a bit later runs.  I always thought the first not made in USA was the MIT Bleriot.

You're wrong about that. 

Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Steve. 

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[Joe Bernard]

The Atlantis started in Japan, too. Bleriot was the first Taiwan model, then some time after that the costs got so high for the Toyo frames that it made more sense to have those done in USA at Waterford. There are two model names that have existed on Toyo, Waterford and MIT frames: Atlantis and Homer. 

[Joel S]

So every frame other than the original Roads, AR’s and of course customs started as imports even if at some point they came back to Waterford it would seem.  Am I missing any other originally MIA frames? 

[Steve Palincsar]

You're missing the LongLow, which was also Waterford-made.

On 10/31/20 1:02 PM, Joel S wrote:

So every frame other than the original Roads, AR’s and of course customs started as imports even if at some point they came back to Waterford it would seem.  Am I missing any other originally MIA frames? --

[Joel Stern]

That’s what I was trying to remember.  Thanks again Steve. 

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[Cyclofiend Jim]

This has come up before, and those are interesting threads - so worth using the search feature for the group - one of the real assets of having this via the googling-groups... 

There was a spreadsheet posted here - 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JRuMAwuQ-Rc6bQXCBmfkmXA9jMMF5zBdBIyUOmkruYM/edit#gid=0

There was a thread from back in 2013 - quoted  below:

The _VERY_ rough page for "Generation 1" Rivendell frames is here:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/gen1/

There are some Catalog scans (Catalog #5) of the Road Standard, Long Low and All Rounder

The Long Low (and Road Standard) begat the Rambouillet

The All Rounder begat the Atlantis

As for the the specifics... mmmm.... wow. That's probably a bit of an essay. 

My opinion is that most of the Rivendell models have been tweaks and evolutions.  One of the driving factors was actually the availability of certain parts - specifically "real world" reach brakes and large volume, round profile tires.  When the Long Low was around, most of the road tires were 19, 21 and 23 cm, while the brake reach was extremely limited.  So, there's that.

The other thing is that I think Grant hones in on what makes each bike different and then intensifies the ideas - the essence of each design, if you will.  For example, the Rambouillet sits between the Hilsen and the Roadeo, but probably each is influenced by it.  When the Rambouillet came out, it wasn't common to ramble singletrack and mountain trails on a "road" bike, but with the increased clearances and larger volume tires, it was possible.  That design really was at the edge of what could be done with common brake components, and when the Silver dual pivots came out, that obstacle was removed. Big tires and ample clearance moved the design one way (Hilsen) and then the idea of running the comfy undercarriage (itself influenced by working with the 650B/584 tire size), but bringing back the light responsiveness of the Rambouillet into a more road focused design gave us the Roadeo.

If you read back through the early Readers, Grant wrote a lot about this - trying to maximize his ideas against the realities of what was available.  Sitting here in 2013, it's hard to believe that only 10 years ago it was about race-driven design.  That pretty much no one had heard of larger than 23 cm road tires, let alone 650B.  If you have the time, get the copies of the early Readers - it's well worth going through them.

The 2009 Series - which gave rise to the Hillborne was really a refinement of the Atlantis made by someone other than Toyo.  Unfortunately economics of Japanese crafted frames has been a challenge.  I still want to expand some of the RBW history on the site - but have been pretty busy getting my VO work up and running for the past year or so.   Here are specific "early model" pages:

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/atlantis

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bombadil

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/hilsen

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/quickbeam

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus

It's also interesting to see how the idea of frames begin and where they end up.  The First Bombadil doesn't look at all like the final iteration, while the Hunqapillar morphed dramatically during conception.

There's a lot of gaps in what I just wrote, of course.  The answer I always give is that when you are ready to get a bicycle that rides great everywhere, and can be adapted to your needs, it's time to check out Rivendell.

[Cyclofiend Jim]

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, Joel S wrote:

I had an first run Rambouillet and Saluki, I just assumed they were USA made.  I see a lot of posts saying Toyo so I am not sure if this was for the original runs or a bit later runs.  I always thought the first not made in USA was the MIT Bleriot.

Rambouillet was not made in the US, AFAIK. The first "named" production models - Atlantis and Rambouillet (as opposed to "Rivendells") were Japanese (Toyo) built. 

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/rambouillet/index.html

Bleriot was essentially a distribution deal through QBP which was a Maxway built (Taiwan) version of the Saluki

http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/bleriot/index.html

http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr37_pg14.jpg

[Cyclofiend Jim]

There is also a "pinned" post at the top of the group called "Rivendell Timeline" which is a good resource.

On Saturday, October 31, 2020 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, Joel S wrote:

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Jim, this is perfect and a nice reading list to boot.  

Joel 

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[Jason Fuller]

The resources Jim has amassed are wonderful and impressive, but I'm surprised there isn't a more formalized timeline out there (great use of a long-scroll style infographic!) considering the amount of Riv catalog that is still generally lost to history otherwise!  For instance I was trying to find info on the previous Rosco's - good freaking luck! You'd think they never existed, save a couple dozen photos spread across the internet. 

An infographic that showed when each batch of each model was released would be too cool, IMO!  Maybe with its headbadge as the 'emblem' along it.  I might try to enlist my graphic designer partner in this... 

[Fullylugged]

Actually, there was the original Road, with a level top tube and the slightly later Road Standard, with a sloping top tube. Also, the drop outs came from different suppliers.

Bruce (1995 Road)

[Joel Stern]

I had 2 Roads, not sure which, first was ‘97 second was ‘99.  They were both great bikes but like a fool I wanted a total custom.  

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