RD shift cable creaking, chain “rumbling” after bike gets thoroughly dusty from riding in sand

[Patrick Moore]

Yes, the rd cable creaks when shifting (Suntour barcons), and the chain (SRAM 11 speed on custom 10 sp cassette) “rumbles,” both only after ~10 or so very sandy and dusty miles. Both occurred after last week’s 21 mile sandy ride along Corrales Lateral and again, after rinsing the bike, on the homebound leg of the 13 mile rt to church and back via ditchbank roads.

Rinsing the bike off quiets both but the sounds recur again after a few more sandy miles.

I did not rinse the bike after yesterday’s ride, but I did spray a very light lube over the standard, bolt-on plastic bb cable guide, wiping off excess, but I daresay that’s not the best solution.

As to the rumbling, the chain is not rubbing on anything. The fat (80 mm edge to edge) Kelpie aluminum fender (double gauge alum, in case it matters) obviously amplifies the sound. I expect that bolting the rear fender to the underside of the rack (in place of stays), a Matthews custom with threaded boss for this purpose, increases the resonance.

Have others experienced this? Does it bother you? Were you able to eliminate the noise?

Any thoughts welcome.

This evening’s rain will compact the sand for a few days, but the surfaces will loosen again.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Ron Mc]

Wippermann NsX stainless chain and molten speedwax - nothing sticks to it, and you can hose it down.  

After 1000 mi, clean chain in mineral spirits, let it dry completely, and re-wax.  

Before I switched to MS Speedwax, ultrasonic chain cleaning would yield a teaspoon of sand and wear particles from the drivetrain.  

Afterward, only a little wax residue in the bottom of the beaker.  

 

[Steve]

A great big +1  on waxed chains. I use a different product (Squirt drip wax) but the results are the same; the chain stays grit free even after long rides of dusty dirt roads.

As for that rumble - I'm guessing you've already checked for chain & cassette wear.  How about the RD jockey wheels? I once mis-threaded a chain through the rear mech, which produced a distinct rumble. 

Can't say I've ever encountered a creaking cable, though my 20 some year old Shimano barcon recently developed one. Cured it with a liberal application of light oil.  Could your creak be due to a frayed section of the cable?

Good luck solving the mysteries. Creaks, groans and squeaks coming from somewhere on a bike drive me absolutely nuts!  I once overhauled a bottom bracket only to later determine that the source of the creak was the saddle rails. Maybe ask a friend to ride beside you to see if they're able to pinpoint the source.

[Ron Mc]

I've been spoiled with DuraAce shift cables. They don't splinter, and are fused in FEP plastic (thermoplastic teflon).  
They also come with nice ferrule guides that extend into the shift cab;e housing and protect the cable from rough edges.  

Do you think creaking is in the cable, or the RD pivots?  Boeshield is pretty good for both cleaning and lubing derailleur pivots.  

[Dan]

I have experienced RD cable creaking several times on my Appaloosa. Usually accompanied by much more force required to shift. 

I also thought it was the bb cable guide but I seem to recall that last time the problem was indeed solved by cleaning and lubing the pivots of the rear derailleur as Ron has suggested!

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Ron, Steve, and Dan.

Chain: the chain is a modestly-priced SRAM 11 speed and it was waxed using Molten Speed Wax (I shudder every time I say this name) just about exactly 110 miles ago. I generally get 200 to 400 miles between waxings before the chain gets very noisy, and again, it’s only when doing more miles in deeper sand that I have the “rumbling” problem. Do you think that spending more on a Wipperman NsX ss chain would help?

No, it’s not chain threading thru the derailleur cage; that produces a considerably louder and more “rasply” sound.

Creaking: I think it’s the cable, as when I spritzed the plastic guide with a light lubricant the sound stopped. Yes, when the creaking sound was present, I could feel resistance to lever movement. The RD pivots were lubed when I waxed the chain, 110 miles ago, but I will lube them again.

The rd cable is sound, not frayed.

Perhaps worth spending for the Dura Ace cables?

Will be grateful for any further ideas.

[Ron Mc]

Hi Bert, at one point in the past, I bought a Wippermann Connex 8SE chain because it was available and cheap.  

I ended up not using it, because I found the 8sX from BikeInn with a Challenge Strada tire order.  

Recently I used it to build and proof-ride my RoadUno.  When I found my 8sX onshore for $59 (Canitoe Road Cyclery), it was a no-brainer purchase.  

I just checked, they have 11sX for $80.  

On 6 bikes, I've never replaced one of these chains, and several are past 20,000 mi

[Dan]

Not sure if you ever resolved this issue, but a similar issue reoccured on my Appaloosa this week after a wet, dirty (and fun!) gravel ride through the hills:

I was able to restore shifting to normal by cleaning the BB cable guide and lubing the rear derailleur pivots and all points where exposed cable entered the housing.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Dan. I did fix the rd cable creak (very odd, that!) by (lazily) spritzing a bit of spray lube over the cables as they pass thru that plastic guide bolted under the bb. I was surprised to realize just now that the creaking remains banished despite a number of other very dusty or sandy rides since that action.

The “rumbling” chain and some odd, fugitive creaks remain, however, after even 5 or 6 sandy miles. I must reconsider whether “Molten Speed Wax” is the best chain lube for the riding I do on this bike; or perhaps I just need to re-wax the chain more often; perhaps every 150 miles or so.

As to the creaks, these occur when I stand or otherwise torque very hard on the pedals: SKF bottom bracket? I tightened it back when I raised this issue, and the loud creaking diminished to a slight creaking; but I wonder if that is the source. I hope, God willing, to have a wonderfully accommodating machinist make a custom 124 mm spindle offset 3 mm to the right to replace a 130 mm symmetric Phil, and when I get that back, I’ll install it in place of the SKF. I never had creaks with Phil bbs on this bike.

*No, chain waxing is not tedious. Slip the master link, coil chain (not dirty on outside because it’s waxed), put into crockpot on top of hard wax, turn on crockpot, and walk away for 2 hours. Come back, pluck chain from pot, dangle over newspaper and give it a quick wipe with a rag (to avoid wax “dandruff”), let cool, re-install.

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[Ron Mc]

@Bert, I have dry teflon spray around (e.g. CRC), use it on kayak rudder, and it works on the BB cable guide also.  

Kinda of the same logic as speedwax, since the dry lube doesn't have surface tension, it doesn't pick up sand.  

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. I wonder if rubbing paraffin wax on the cables where they pass through the guides might work as well. At any rate, my Finish Line spray lube seems to be still working.

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[Garth]

Okay, I waited long enough to chime in ! What you could use in Jagwire Slick Lube  inner shift lining. It's for 1.1/1.2 shift cables, not the brake stuff. I use this under the BB on my Franklin that has no nylon guide, just the metal. Cables were fraying. You can make it as long as wish to keep crud out, mine extends about 2-3 inches fore and aft. You likely need a fresh cable unless the ends of your existing cable are still intact. 

JSAY051is the Jagwire item  code.

It's available at many online retailers, here's some from ebay to choose from. I wouldn't pay more that $16-17 w/shipping there as it retails for $12.99. 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=JSAY051+Jagwire&_s

[Ron Mc]

Great idea Garth, and it keeps the cable 100% clean.  

[Patrick Moore]

Another good suggestion from Garth. Thanks.

In other news: I think that my indestructible SKF bottom bracket bearing assembly is creaking, despite massive re-torquing recently. It doesn’t creak much, but there are muted “cracking” sounds when I stand up and push hard in a highish gear. It looks like I might have to go back to Phil. I did get the SKF second hand but new at a very low price compared to full new retail, though.

Lastly, the Jagwire cables also creak slightly in the headtube-mounted stops, but judicious spraying of Finish Line lube also solved that problem. I’ll bet beeswax would work there, too, but you’d have to melt it and drip it in.

[Garth]

Patrick, check your chainring bolts. Those are easily mistaken for BB noises. Pedros Chain Checker Plus II has a chainring nut tool on one end, and it's notably longer so easier to reach behind the rings. I've used PTFE/teflon thread tape on BB threads before. Lightly grease the threads then wrap them in 2 layers. Blue Monster is the best teflon tape, ever. It doesn't shred apart when tightening and loosening. It's like $3.50 from Home Depot. 

[Patrick Moore]

Garth! Font of cycling Wisdom! Thank you.

I just torqued down the chainring bolts on the Logic 110/74 1x + granny, all except for that nasty one hiding behind the crank arm. I left it to sulk and bear the consequences.

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