What's Good - Wide-ish/flared drops edition...

[Ben Mihovk]

Hey everyone!

I posted earlier about reach in converting to a wider bar and decided to start a different conversation to get opinions on wide-ish, flared drops.

I like the Nitto Noodle quite well, but I think I do want a little flare and I don't want to bend them myself. So what's good out there? I'm tempted by the Crust Towel Rack, but I'd love to hear what you all like.

If it helps/matters, the kind of riding I do with the bike it's going is casual rails-to-trails, some rolling gravel roads, but nothing too technical or serious.

Thanks!

Ben

[maxcr]

Have you looked at the spank flare 25 from Analog? I rode them on one of their demo bikes and it had a nice flare

https://analogcycles.com/collections/bars/products/spank-flare-25-degree-bars?variant=42906531004648

Max

[Ben Mihovk]

Oooh...I like the looks of that. It's a contender!

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

52cm Nitto RM013 - it's essentially a 48mm Noodle with extra flare only in the drop itself (so hoods retain a more normal orientation but that extra flare when in the drops feels nice if venturing off into slightly more technical terrain.) 

I started with a 48cm RM013 after being confused about the measurements, which differ from the Noodle, and found the 48cm RM013 it a hair too narrow for my liking.  I eventually acquired the desired 52cm of the same model through a series of parts swaps and list purchases as well as a Salsa Cowbell in the widest 46cm size (which is 46cm center to center at the hoods making the drop/bar ends over 50cm.)

I really like aspects of both the Cowbell and RM013 for the types of riding you describe but found I personally seem to prefer longer ramps.  The Cowbell's 68mm reach felt much too short for me, personally, and was the only reason I moved away from them.  The 90mm reach of the RM013 felt much better when on the ramps.  I was kind of indifferent to the deeper drop vs. the Cowbell but do like the unique flare combined with a more traditional road drop for a mixed surface road-ish bike.  I'd considered trying Crust's new 31.8 Bonneville bar since I was running a 31.8 thread less stem with 26.0 shim for the RM013's on my only drop bar bike.  I thought I'd like to try the longer/flatter 120mm ramp and 15deg flare compared to the Cowbell 12deg, however, that frame has since been sidelined so won't be attempting any other drop swaps anytime soon.

I also have one of the original v1 Towel Rack/Leather Bar in the 66cm/26.0 (only the single option in the v1) but used it only briefly on a short brakeless test ride mid-build on another project.  It was certainly wiiiide but I have not yet had an opportunity to fully test it yet as the full build has not yet materialized.  Current iterations are also significantly different in spec than the v1 but I do hope to eventually give it a try.

https://crustbikes.com/collections/handlebars/products/nitto-rm-dirt-drop
https://crustbikes.com/collections/handlebars/products/nitto-x-crust-bonneville-bar?variant=39999234146394

Brian Cole

Lawrence NJ

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 9:36:15 AM UTC-5 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:

[Lance Terry]

Check out the PNW Coast bar.  A little flair but not too crazy. They make really nice stuff at a reasonable price and great customer service.

[J]

Brian-

That's good insight about the 52 vs 48, the difference being in the width of the flair only, since nowhere else is that useful info available. I've been considering moving from the narrowest Towel Rack V1 to a Noodle bar but have been unsure I could get along with the narrow width. What bike are you using the 52 Noodle on, any photos? 

[Jason Zakaras]

Ben, I'm also in Omaha and a big fan of the crust towel rack.  I have a 600 on my 58cm quick beam and am holding a 630 for my 58cm hunq that is currently being painted.  If you want to hold the 630 or ride the QB to check the feels I'd be down to meet. 

I had the Nitto noodles and the flares on the Towel Rack reeeeeaaaalllly help me get into a good comfortable but not overly relaxed position.  I've rode them on 150 mile rides around here on the gravel and are quiet easily the nicest cockpit set-up I've used.  Another nice option is the Ritchie VentureMax, I had the carbon bars on my bombora but swapped them out for towel racks, I find there are more hand placement options with the TR.

Cheers!

Jason "in rural Springfield which is basically Omaha" Zakaras

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Hi J,

Adding this link for prosperity...  Primarily compares RM014 to RM013 but scroll to the bottom for the notable Noodle comparison!  I eventually stumbled upon this page some time ago during searches for 52cm RM013 bars and trying to verify how they were measured.  I'll see if I could dig up a photo of the build though it'll likely differ in some regard from the most recent variation as I had swapped bars/levers/cranks/wheel at various points but unfortunately think I missed an proper photo documentation of where it ended.
http://biketouringnews.com/components-touring-bicycles/cockpit/touring-bike-handlebars/nitto-dirt-drop-handlebars/

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I was certain I at least captured something since swapping to the RM013 in 52cm but I’ve apparently failed at documenting anything on this one since this prior Salsa Cowbell build from June’21. 

This would eventually wear the aforementioned Nitto bars with shim, Sugino GLP double cranks bought from Bill L., turned into a single 42t, Nitto 32f mini front rack with partial DIY light mount bracket from a cut & filed 52t chainring drilled and adapted for a Paul Gino light mount to get a battery light bar bracket out in front and above the tire.  Plus a Tubus Tara option for front low riders if another build meant for more errand running went down.  Actually, come to think of it, I never tested whether the Tara hoop would’ve interfered with the new light placement (or vice versa.)  It probably would have…

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[Will Boericke]

I quite like Ritchey's Venturemax, and also have a set of Salsa Cowchippers.  Both are 12ish degrees of flare, which seems just right for me.  Ergo bend bars are divisive, though.

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[Ben Mihovk]

I guess I should add that I'm not really willing to go 31.8 clamp diameter...I'm looking only for 26mm.

Ben

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Venturemax and Beacon from Ritchey both look interesting and I recall seeing praise for them elsewhere.  I have not had the opportunity to try any of the ergo style bends yet so remain neutral for now.

I also just came across a photo of the first 31.8 drop bar I tried that did not necessarily work out for me.  Giant SL Connect 44cm… take-offs from a friend’s CX flat bar conversion and acquired via trade.  No flare on these but if anyone following along is actually looking for 31.8 drops of either flared or non flared variety and wishes to arrange some kind of trade I could make either the 46cm Salsa Cowbell or these 44cm Giant SL Connect drops available.  I’d trade both for a used 26.0 Albastache! But always open to consider a variety of items for trade.

I do not immediately have a box to ship but would certainly arrange accordingly should anything come to fruition.  Sorry for the thread drift ; ) I should clearly do a proper parts purge and updated wishlist for a more cohesive FS/FT.

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[Rusty Click]

Plus one for the Spank Flare.

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 9:36:15 AM UTC-5 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:

[Conway Bennett]

I'd look at Curve WALMER Bar, Redshift Kitchen Sink , or Ride Farr Supa-Wide.

[Conway Bennett]

Here's a pre-dug rabbit hole: https://bikepacking.com/index/gravel-bars/

[Scott Luly]

I'm for extra width...

But I don't like the idea of flare occurring from tops to bottoms because it puts the hoods/lever tips pointing outward. I don't totally get the true functional value of flaring other than bottoms are wider than tops? Is that helpful from a functional perspective?

Help me out here?

Scott

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[Philip Williamson]

I only ride flared drops. The flare in flared drops are mostly for wrist clearance out of the saddle or in technical body-English situations. I feel the width changes from the hoods to the hooks to the ends are also beneficial for different modes during a ride: aero cruising, control on technical trails or descents, and leverage for honking up a loose hill. 

I’ve settled on Nitto RM-3s from Blue Lug or Somafab. It’s my favorite. The 25.4 is often out of stock, but is my favorite bar. I have them on three bikes; my Fitz Supermoto, Quickbeam fixed gear, and Bontrager road bike. The angled hoods are very comfortable to me, and the drops give great control. I set flared bars up high, so the hooks are the main position, but I use the hoods and tops, too.

The On-One Midge bar is similar to the RM-3; I like it almost as much.

The RM-013 someone else mentioned is also a good bar. Deeper, more reach, and less flare. 

On the other end of the spectrum is the Woodchipper, which is short, shallow, and flared. The hooks aren’t angled much, but the tops are wide. 

You can see the RM-3s on my Quickbeam here on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/ClKbS02PGoN/?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=

Philip

Sonoma County, Calif

[Garth]

I used to own the RM-013 long ago but then changed to the 56cm Albatross on my 62cm/62cm seat/top tube custom Franklin road bike. The 013 was "okay", but not great enough that I kept it. I'm changing back to a drop bar and used the bikepacking list as a useful starting point. Mostly I wanted a shallow-er drop and short-er reach drop bar because I'm using some modern Tektro RL-341 levers, the small hand version(same body, shorter, closer-in levers). Compared to how road levers used to be, those Tektro small hand versions have about the same length and reach to the lever as vintage Campy, and when mounted they are on about the same plane as the bottom of the drops. Of course, the lever bodies are so much longer now, hence, I don't need so much reach in the bar. 

I really wasn't keen on anything until I dove into the Zipp Service Course 70 XPLR. It's a rough texture silver, kinda odd, but yeah so what since it's getting taped and I'll take function over fashion every time. I bought the 46cm, which is 52cm at the ends. With it's modest flare and outsweep riding the hoods feel like a regular drop bar. The top has a slight backwseep also, which is really quite nice to feel as I never liked straight tops since the wrists don't conform to straight. The top is oval also, very nice in hand ! It's a 31.8 clamp, which seems to clamp more efficiently , and I only use open face zero or positive rise stems anyway. Yea to threadless quill adapters for the adaptability. I love most of the "vintage" design of many things except when it comes to stems with negative rise and enclosed clamps. I mean they look wonderful but they don't apply practically for my sensibilities. 

From the bikepacking article of the SC 70 XPLR :

There are two metrics that set these bars apart from others in this list: outsweep and flare. Something that often bothers me about more dramatically flared bars is that the brake hoods sit at an awkward angle. It’s not always a problem as different bars are angled and tweaked differently, but sometimes the bend at the point of flare exaggerates the angle of the levers, making grabbing them from the drops a little awkward. At any rate, Zipp’s goal was to develop a bar with a hoods-dominant position at the forefront, in turn, solving some of these issues. I ride in the hoods much of the time, or with my hands resting on the bar curve just behind the hoods, so this piqued my interest. To accomplish this—and maintain control in the drops—Zipp landed on 5° flare and 11° outsweep.

The bar’s drop shape features 70mm reach, but the drop is a shallower 115mm. The service Course also features an ergonomic top with 3° backsweep, 100mm clamping area on top of bar, Di2 bar end junction compatible.

[Pancake]

Soma Portola - https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/portola-bar

56cm wide at the flared ends but 45.5cm on the hoods

Meets your 26mm diameter requirement.

That’s where I landed when I was looking for a similar change (wider, more flared noodle, less drop, less reach). They’ve been great. Though like another poster, I just swapped them for Albatross bars (though upside down and with bar ends mounted in the middle so I get a hood like position). I’ve tried RM-013 and noodles, the the Portola was the best so far. I’m also curious about the 600mm Towel Rack but haven’t tried it. 

Description from soma:

This bar is similar to our June Bug dirt drop bar, except it uses a 26.0mm center and comes in a narrower width. Nice option to try for adventure touring, trail riding or commuting. 112mm drop. 65mm reach. Grips have a slight flare. Width at lever mounting area: 41cm (53cm size), 45.5cm (56cm size) approx.  - Polished 6061 T6 aluminum - 53 and 56cm widths (measured center to center at bar ends) - 26.0mm center 

On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 6:36:15 AM UTC-8 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:

[Will Boericke]

Check out WhatBars to compare profiles for many of the offerings out there.  As I recall, the Portola is a similar profile to the Ritcheys I like, except I needed 31.8 instead of 26.

Will

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[Drew Saunders]

Steve Potts has reintroduced a new version of the original WTB dirt drop, which Soma is selling: 
https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/steve-potts-original-dirt-drop-bar-31-8-60cm-5910

I have the real original WTB bars, bought in 1999, on my Ibis Mojo, and I would definitely get these new ones if I had the space for another bike.

Drew

[Philip Williamson]

The RM-3s are the same as the WTB bars that look very similar to the new Potts bars. I snipped that out of my original reply. 

I sold the old WTBs from my Quickbeam, and ended up replacing them with RM-3s. Same bar. Blue Lug has silver in stock, and some stems that work well with them. 

One of the mysterious birthday/Xmas boxes in the house might have a set of Potts bars for me…

Philip

Sonoma County, Calif

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[Bikie#4646]

Drew, Philip & others, 

While this is not a Rivendell, the bike does sport the Soma Portolas in this discussion. They are on a Bontrager CX that I commissioned from Keith Bontrager in 1989:

https://flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/albums/72157704888845842/with/33876168088/

Ironically, when I built it up, used the original WTB Dirt Drops - also a part of this discussion - with a custom filet brazed stem by Steve Potts. (I'm covering all the bases here!)

http://www.cyclofiend.com/cx/2010/cx057-paulgermain0410.html

Being an east coaster, my only experience with the bars (and bar end shifters)  was a short ride on Jacquie Phelan's Cunningham Indian while she was in Massachusetts for the first Ross Stage Race in 1986 -1987. That's why the bars are truncated like that. I had figured on some tight trail rides for the bike, but I wound up using it more for fire roads. (I regretted cutting them, so did an update on some of the components a few years ago.)

Essentially, the shallow drops make them more accessible for doing shorter, more demanding riding than road stuff, in my opinion.

Paul Germain

Midlothian, Va.

[Philip Williamson]

Wow, that CX bike is incredible. Did you ever hear from anyone else with a fillet-brazed Bontrager cyclocross bike? 

To stay on topic - cutting the sweep ends off flared drops is inadvisable, and the Portola bars are very similar to the RM-3s, Midge, and original WTB. 

I had a LeMond for a while with Portola bars. that was stolen. 

Here’s a $20 Midge bar in SF: 

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bop/d/san-francisco-on-one-midge-bar/7560429801.html

Philip

Sonoma County, Calif

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[Bikie#4646]

Philip,

Thanks for the comment on the Bontrager CX. Yes, I did find one other filet brazed Bonty CX online. Not something Keith was prone to do. A very practical guy, who believed in a useful, long-lived frame. (Thus the gussets he would sometimes use in his MTB bikes.) 

I do imagine he had never gotten a request for a frame with nickel-plated or chromed stays and fork blades though! This bike has served me well over the years, sometimes as the original 3x7; sometimes as my single speed; currently as a 1x7 - before 1x drivetrains were much of a "thing". (I stole the idea from actual CX racers, though I never raced CX.)

And yes, today I would never butcher any handlebars li that. It was done out of pure naiveté. Getting to see what others were doing back then was difficult. Not like today with the Internet. 

What put it into my head in the first place was a 1987 article in Mountain Bike Action magazine:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bikecrazy-paul/48063895973/in/album-72157709086228276/

Once it was in my head, I could never get it out! Looking at it today, it seems like "underbiking" but CX was limited to 32 mm tires, after all. All this was before Grant and his "country bike" evangelization, which may not have been ground-breaking but was certainly influential.