Dura-Ace and Japanese Recycling

[John Rinker]

One interesting thing about living in Japan is the gomi. 'Gomi' is any trash/refuse/garbage that is bigger than a toaster oven and must have a special tag in order for it to be disposed of. Japan's recycling system is complicated but effective, and the gomi is just one aspect of it.

It never ceased to amaze me what can be found in the gomi- beautiful furniture, golf clubs, karaoke machines, and, yes, bicycles. While technically one is not supposed to take things from the gomi, during my two years in Japan, I couldn't resist pulling a number of bicycles from the gomi including a brand new Tern folding bicycle and a 1990s-era Bottechia racing bicycle, handmade with Columbus tubing and a Dura-ace groupset. The Bottechia looked as though it had been ridden less than a dozen times, and the Dura-Ace (7400) is in mint condition. The Japanese tend to treat their goods with care and respect, and the Bottechia was no exception. 

Alas, the frame was far too small for me and Italian racing bikes, while very beautiful don't really fit my style of riding. Before offering up the frame to a local shop, I did strip all the parts and was left with a beautiful group of Shimano's finest road mech. 

Fast forward to last week, when I swapped out the crankset on my Atlantis and found that the beautiful Dura-Ace front derailleur works beautifully with the Rene Herse triple...even in the snow.

I miss so much about living in Japan, to my mind the most civilized of countries, but I'm delighted to know that as I pedal about exploring the mountains of BC I'll have a bit of Japanese trash adorning my bicycle.

Cheers, John

[amill...@gmail.com]

John,

Thanks for sharing and teaching me about Gomi. Sometimes small reminders are the best.

Best,

Aaron in El Paso

p.s. a full size photo of the Atlantis is now expected. 

On Dec 2, 2022, at 17:34, John Rinker <jwri...@gmail.com> wrote:

One interesting thing about living in Japan is the gomi. 'Gomi' is any trash/refuse/garbage that is bigger than a toaster oven and must have a special tag in order for it to be disposed of. Japan's recycling system is complicated but effective, and the gomi is just one aspect of it.

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[Scott Luly]

I wanna see a full size pic, too, please! Toyo or MIT? Judging by space between rear wheel and seat tube, probably Toyo?

Such a handsome FD! Clamp size is 31.8? No fussing to mount it? I'm building a new 62cm MIT Atlantis right now and am on hunt for a FD for it. Think I just found some direction...

Scott

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

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[John Rinker]

Hey Aaron and Scott,

I'll snap a photo when I'm out and about tomorrow. The Atlantis is a 2005 (I believe)Toyo Scott, regarding the FD, it was a braze-on mounted one so I bought an 28.6 clamp for it. No fussing around with it and it shifts beautifully.

Cheers,

John

[Mike Godwin]

John discovered the older FD magic. All my bikes have older (late 20th century) generally two-ring FDs - Campy, Suntour, Shimano - shifting triples. I really like the aesthetics and function.

Mike "scrounging the bike kitchen for gems" Godwin SLO CA 

[John Rinker]

You bet, Mike. My Hunq has the original XT FD from my first mountain bike from the early 90s, and I've got some Deer Heads that I'm saving for something, someday. 

[Scott Luly]

John, the Atlantis I purchased new from Riv last month takes a 31.8 clamp FD. Yours is a 28.6? They must have changed along the way?

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3fe21f75-011d-4afa-bff0-a4905605cf0en%40googlegroups.com

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[John Rinker]

Hey Scott, I certainly cannot speak to the new Atlanti, but mine definitely takes a 28.6. Looking forward to a photo of your build.

Cheers,

John

[Nick Payne]

On Saturday, 3 December 2022 at 2:24:41 pm UTC+11 Scott wrote:

John, the Atlantis I purchased new from Riv last month takes a 31.8 clamp FD. Yours is a 28.6? They must have changed along the way?

I think you'll find your Atlantis seat tube is 28.6mm diameter (AKA 1⅛"). That's what the Riv website says.

Nick

[Joe Bernard]

The website description is fascinatingly murky, like I couldn't make it murkier if I tried. The seattube ovalizes as it heads down to the BB shell and I believe it is indeed 31.8 at the fd section (the MIT model). Toyo/Waterford was 28.6. 

[John Rinker]

Aaron and Scott,

Here's the full meal deal. Atlantis in the snow.

Cheers, John

[Scott Luly]

Thanks for sharing, John!

Great picture...and a GREAT bicycle! I love its proportions.

You exceeded expectations

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[Luke Hendrickson]

Positively gorgeous bike!

[Ryan]

That is a beauty...and even more intriguing is your gomi story. So intriguing I dreamed I rode an Atlantis last night...but I can't tell you whether it was a gomi harvest or not, unfortunately.

[John Rinker]

Well, Ryan, it is a dream bike, so it's no wonder it showed up in yours. Someday I hope to ride one of the newer Atlantii to have an understanding of how they've changed over time, but I do really love the way this Toyo model rides. 

Cheers,

John

[David Hallerman]

That’s much like how I’ve found Dura-Ace FDs of that era, the originally 8-speed 7410 in specific, are perfect for the 48/34 compact doubles I run on many of my bikes.

I wonder how those late 20th century FDs would do with subcompact doubles, like a 46/30. Has anyone here done that?

Dave, who has his first 46/30 crankset incoming which sparks curiosity 

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Hudson Valley NY

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[lconley]

For my Rivendell Custom, I use a Dura-Ace FD-7800 (31.8 integral clamp, 10-speed era) with my RenéHERSE 42-26 double. Chain is a Dura-Ace 11 speed (ultrasonically cleaned and waxed), cassette is a Dura-Ace 12-28 11 speed. Rear derailleur is a Dura-Ace RD-7700GS (large pulleys, 9-speed era). Friction shifted with frame mounted Silver-1 shifters. Everything works the way it should. 25 to 95 gear range. Basically a 1x system (40 to 95) on the 42T with a 26T granny bail-out.

Laing

[Russell Duncan]

I’ve used a 2016 Campagnolo Chorus FD with 46 x 34 and 46 x 30 doubles with good results. The Chorus derailleur was originally from a 52 x 39 setup. 

Russell Duncan 

Leverett, MA USA

[Eric Marth]

I love rescuing stuff from the trash, my friend Gil and I have done this for years and we are often subtly one-upping one another with stuff we find in dumpsters and on the side of the road. Among my best finds: a fully functional, late-model Kitchen Aid stand mixer, a Lightspeed carbon tri bike with full Dura Ace and a quilted Ciocc with Campy Athena. Also found a new Japanese hand hoe in a dumpster, not of great value but beautiful and useful (I was working on an organic farm at the time). 

This poster detailing waste disposal in Osaka, Japan is like a fentanyl patch laid gently on my nucleus accumbens. They really take great care. 

[Eric Marth]

I might have shared this somewhere else on the forum a while back but I'm also reminded of the stunning recycling center in Kamikatsu that's built mostly from recycled materials. More info and pictures here. 

[John Dewey]

David, I've matched a beautiful IRD Defiant 94 BCD (I think my only crankset that didn't come from you 😉 ) with 46 /30 rings and an early 2000s 960 DA XTR front derailer. It all works perfectly together.

Cheers / Jock Dewey

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[John Rinker]

Groovy, Eric! That's on the island of Shikoku. Have you lived in Japan?

Very cool article on the Zero Waste facility. I was, however, nonplussed by this statement: "Kamikatsu's main industry was once forestry, but all that remains of this today are neglected cedar forests." The many cedar forests that I spent time in while in Japan were anything but. I do believe the Japanese have the wisdom to understand the difference between humans managing a forest and letting a forest manage itself. In addition, the Japanese can see clearly beyond the idea of wood being the singular resource of a forest. Shinrin-yoku, forest bathing, is a deep, active cultural practice. Another of my favorite things about living in Japan.

Cheers,

John

[Eric Marth]

John, I've never been to Japan! But I've collected a few tidbits in the olde mental filing cabinet. 

I'd love to do some riding in Japan one day, hopefully with some shinrin-yoku included. 

[Nick A.]

Dave - I'm running a 46/30 on my Atlantis with a Shimano 600 tricolor FD and if works splendidly.

Nick near D.C.

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 2:48:03 PM UTC-5 David Hallerman wrote:

[Russell Duncan]

How about some Italian recycling. I’ve coupled Suntour late 70s barcons with parts from a mid-1990s Campagnolo Record 8-spd group, including the rear derailleur, the wheel set, a stock 13-26 Campagnolo 8-sped cassette modified with a 28 tooth low gear, an early 80s Record front derailleur, and a 2010-ish Campagnolo CX 36/46 10-speed crankset with Le Tour chainring spacers for retrofitting to 8-spd. The system mix works perfectly and I think that it would work with a Campy 9-spd setup too. 

Russell Duncan 

Leverett, Massachusetts USA

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Russell
 

"Life is like a ten speed bicycle. Most of us have gears we never use."
--Charles M. Schulz

[Russell Duncan]

Beautiful building with all those recycled windows. A nightmare of a job to reglaze them. A Zen effort perhaps.

Russell Duncan 

Leverett, MA USA