Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was the bike for?

I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to bring.” And she was right, and I did. 

Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell off a cliff. 

So, who truly loves their Rivendell? The one who lavishes it with care and protection? Or the one who pulls it out of the garage and into all of life - the mundane and the adventurous? 

On one end of the spectrum we have those who will only take a Rivendell out for special occasions so as not to spoil it, and on the other…well, we have Pam and Ana, who will give it a good thrashing. (Oh, don’t take it personally, friends, I’m being funny about both types of owners.)

I find myself wanting to be precious but fighting it and succeeding *most* of the time. I’m lucky that the raspberry paint hides beausage and dirt, so it looks pretty new. But a dent in the top tube or a large chip in the paint would really hurt my feelings. Heaven help me. 

Where are you on the spectrum? What words of wisdom might you have? What strategies do you employ? Do you want to change? Or are you unapologetically staying put on the matter? It might be fun to hear perspectives.

Leah

[Joe Bernard]

I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, "What if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made exactly for my size, weight and riding preferences?", and at first I was super precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a perfect bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm doing.

Of course I'm still absurdly touchy about scratching all that beautiful Joe Bell paint but I don't let it stop me, I lock it up at Walmart, I fill the bags with laundry and go to the laundromat. Because I want my bike to do all the things bikes do!

Joe Bernard 

[Leah Peterson]

Joe, I know how worried you were about your paint and now your custom hauls laundry?! This is huge, huge progress. So impressed. And locking up at Walmart can be really scary. Good for you. I’m so glad your custom is doing all the things you meant for it to do. I’m sure you would never be happy riding a beater bike to do these things.

L

On Nov 5, 2022, at 7:14 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

I love this topic! I had my custom designed to answer the question, "What if I had all the qualities I love about Rivendells in a frame made exactly for my size, weight and riding preferences?", and at first I was super precious about it. Later I realized the whole point was to have a perfect bike I could ride every day for everything and that's what I'm doing.

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[Richard Rose]

I like to think I am both. Ride it hard, lavish it with love & hope for the best. I’ve owned bikes more “precious” that most Rivs, custom hand made by one craftsman bikes, and those makers share Grants sentiment. These (bikes) are tools first. That said, nothing wrong with protecting your investment. It’s very hard to not want to protect the beauty of an object someone worked so hard to make beautiful.

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On Nov 5, 2022, at 6:15 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was the bike for?

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[George Schick]

I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any wear and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care of you."

This is no different than what one might do having just bought a nice new automobile and drives it everywhere, but also maintains it, washes and waxes it regularly, and is careful where they park it.

[Jay Lonner]

My Hunq is a daily driver and has the dings and scratches to show for it. Probably the worst one is that the kickstand plate is pried partially loose — no big deal, I just took the kickstand off and used the mounting hardware to snug things back up. Worst case scenario for me is that someday I treat myself to a new paint job and maybe some frame modifications to go along with it. 

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

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On Nov 5, 2022, at 4:28 PM, George Schick <bhi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I haven't read Grant's Blahg on this matter (the ancient OS on my computer is so out of date that I can't load certain websites), but what he has to say does not surprise me.  He's always been all about what he calls "beausage," a term he coined to mean "beauty through usage," or IOW don't sweat all of the nicks and scratches, "just ride" your bike and be happy.  The good news though is that there is a happy middle ground between the complete over-the-top utility use of a bike (like Pam's), ignoring any wear and tear versus a finicky protectiveness, hovering over the bike at all times and worrying about theft, damage, etc.  And in my way of thinking that means "just ride" it for all it's worth, but don't just throw it in the corner until the next ride, but take good care of it.  Another way of saying that might be, "... take good care of it and it will take good care of you."

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[Joe Bernard]

Leah, I had to do an honest soul-searching about what kind of riding I like to do and where the custom is supposed to fit in it. As you know I'm not very good at riding to "just ride"..I like to have a place to go, a thing to do somewhere on the loop. If I have a designated beater bike for those kinds of rides I'll always be on my beater and the Riv will sit gleaming in a room. So I said to heck with that! I'm still careful and wouldn't leave it locked up outside all day, but I ride my Rivendell. It's comfortable and useful and gorgeous and I love it!  

[Eric Marth]

First, I have to say that bikes like Pam's Betty are, to my mind and eye, the most beautiful. Those that show years of love, utility, wear and tens of thousands of miles on the road. More beautiful to me by far than a perfect fresh paint job. 

I don't go out of my way to abuse my Rivs but I'm a bit careful and when the occasional dumb ding or mishap occurs (always my fault! Sometime in collaboration with the cruel and indifferent Old Man Gravity) it stings but I do my best to let that go. I'm not so much concerned about scrapes, dings, chips but I am bothered by real damage that requires replacement or repair. 

My Hillborne was repainted by a local frame builder and the paint job is a little brittle. Like, paint popping off from chain slap, paint popping off from removing the frame pump. I'm trying to not be too precious about it. 

My Appaloosa is about a year old. This summer I leaned it up against a building and I didn't do a good job. It pitched over and I thought "Oh brother." There's a scratch in my brake lever, can't detect any other damage. 

When I had my Surly that sucker pitched over off the kickstand more times than I could count. I almost got used to it. Never had any damage to my paint, racks. Some scratches to my bar end shifters. 

I have a harder time with true damage to a frame or component where something ends up broken. At a bike rack I just don't want someone else to do something stupid and bend my rack struts or damage my Schmidt lamp. I did get pushed over by a van at low speed in January of 2022 (no injury to me, kinda scary, I'm okay). It ruined a wheel (made it into a taco) and bent the fork. That was painful and harder to deal with. Appaloosa is road worthy as of late spring with a new Rich-built Cliffhanger with a Son hub. 

Enduring damage to a bike that puts it out of commission can "do terrible things to, let us say, the gyroscope of the soul," as Tom Wolfe wrote in the Right Stuff. 

[Piaw Na]

I buy my bicycles to ride. So I ride them. I don't wax the chains, preferring to just replace them when they're worn out rather than spend time waxing them. I ride my road bikes off road, with and without a load. My tandem/triplet has paint patches all over, and I expect that to eventually happen to my Roadini (which has already got a paint chip within a week of me riding it!). I've cracked 2 titaninium frames that were custom built and on my 3rd (hence the roadini as a backup!). I will say that the nice thing about titanium is that being harder than steel it doesn't scratch easily and there's no paint to chip!

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

[aeroperf]

I had this discussion with my wife today, because she is about to join the Riv Sisters with a Platypus.  I ordered her frame yesterday.
The discussion turned to lights.  Add a front hub generator and a light, and now you’re talking over $4000 for the bike she wants.
$1750 for a frame, $400 for a set of wheels, $225 for the generator hub, add fenders, etc., and pretty soon you’re talking real money.

Then the discussion turned to “precious”.  Is she going to ride it to downtown Atlanta and lock it to a lamp pole?  
With my Sam, the question also arose.  Every 5 years I strip it to the bare frame and reassemble after cleaning and lubing everything.
So it looks like new and I have a bit of trepidation taking it to town and locking it to a bike rack.  But I still do it, Brooks B17 and all.

We each have decent, comfortable $800 bikes in addition to our Rivs.  Which do we ride?  How many locks do we take today?
It wouldn’t be so bad if you could get a replacement Riv.  But the shipments come in every other year (if that often).  So if yours is stolen and you want another…what, 55 Sam?  Wait two years and hope for a good lottery number?  Will it ride the same or have the chainstays grown again?  Does my size now come with 650b wheels when everything else I have is 700c?

I ride the Sam almost every day because I live on a bike trail.  It never leaves my sight on those rides.
But when the discussion is “Let’s go shopping for groceries at Publix, lock the bike, spend a half hour shopping, and then come out and see if it’s still there”…well…
I’m not worried about beausage.  I’m worried about finding it gone.

[Richard Rose]

When I was talking to Will about getting a double legged kickstand he warned me about the “peeling” mounting plate on the Clems. But, he thought I would be ok they had beefed them up. So far so good.

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[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

What does a peeling mounting plate look like? Anyone have pictures? Not that I have kickstands on any of my bikes --- the one on the triplet got taken off ages ago... Just curious.

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[Jay Lonner]

I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

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[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?

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[ascpgh]

Over twenty year's riding I would expect my bike to have about the same number of flaws and mars as I do since I care for each with the same respect and value. I'll never replace either. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Jay Lonner]

No damage that I could detect. The kickstand plate isn’t integral to the frame, it’s just tacked on with some not-very-strong welds. I’m fairly certain it could be removed with only superficial damage to the paint, but then I’d have nothing to attach a fender to. 

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

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On Nov 5, 2022, at 6:13 PM, Piaw Na <pi...@gmail.com> wrote:



No damage to the frame? Or did you have to get it repaired?

On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jay Lonner <jay.l...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don’t have a picture, just imagine the weld giving way and the plate separating from the seat stays. I was using a double-legged kickstand at the time and carrying a fair amount of cargo (see attached), and evidently the seesawing action was enough to pry things loose. It bummed me out for maybe half a day, but it’s been fine ever since, now I just use the kickstand plate as a fender attachment point.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

<IMG_0750.jpeg>

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[J J]

Thanks for starting this thread, Leah. I enjoy your writing… as I enjoy Grant’s. He’s very funny even when discussing serious things. At least I see some humor there, whether he intends it or not. 

Anyway, my daily ride is a Hunqapillar that I bought new about 11 years ago. I was precious about it for a hot minute, but a) I realized pretty quickly that it was futile and thus stressful to try to avoid dings and scratches; b) I reminded myself that a primary reason I got the Hunq was that I wanted a fun do-everything bike, an “all rounder plus”, the plus being that it is robust enough to carry me and any size load I wanted to haul, for as long as I want to haul it. 

So I use it in that way. I will take it grocery or farmers market shopping. I run errands with it. I use three or four locks. I used to occasionally commute to work on it (before my office went to mostly full-time remote work post-pandemic), but I realized that I do not enjoy commuting by bike. I live in a busy area in DC and the morning and afternoon rush hour commuting energy — definitely from cars, but also other bikers,  including the rushing, the noises, the risk taking, the aggressiveness — was turning one of my very favorite activities, riding a bike, into another source of stress. It was as if commuting by bike was starting to sully my relationship to my bike and to biking. And I did not want that. 

This sort of goes against Grant’s notion, or at least hope, that biking will be a huge part of people’s everyday lives. As far as a commute goes, it’s aspirational for me. I will do that when there are protected bike lanes and much fewer cars on the road. I am not keen on being a martyr for the cause of biking (or commuting!). The sort of change in road and bike infrastructure that I’d like to see (and I imagine most of us want) requires collective action, organizing, and so on. Individuals can only do so much. 

By the way, my bike’s kickstand mounting plate also “peeled” partway off. I sent photos of it to Riv and Will said: “yeah we see that on some of our bikes, best thing to do is to buy the kickstand mounting hardware and a long bolt to pass through the (peeled) plate.” I believe it was a very rare for Rivendell design or manufacturing misstep. The weld simply was not strong enough. The peeling exposed a big area of raw steel on a part of the bike that is most likely to get wet and mucked up. I just have to be mindful of it. No rust has developed, I clean and treat it regularly, and one day I’ll get it repaired and reinforced and repainted (I’ve been telling myself this for a few years now! — I just can’t stand to be without the bike even for a day. 

Jim

[Kim Hetzel]

Hi Jay,

Today, I just installed a double-legged kickstand on my Clem "L".  If I do not carry a heavy loads on the back end of my bike, like you did, I should be fine ?...regarding possible damage of separating the kickstand frame plate.

Thank-you,

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Jay Lonner]

Kim,

I guess I’d put myself in the “once burned, twice shy” camp — I personally wouldn’t install a kickstand again, unless maybe the mounting plate was super bomber. That’s something you’ll have to assess for yourself. I keep meaning to order a Flickstand but haven’t gotten around to it, which goes to show that in my riding there’s no shortage of things to lean my bike against. 

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

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On Nov 5, 2022, at 8:37 PM, Kim Hetzel <krhe...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Kim Hetzel]

Thank-you, Jay.

Kim Hetzel.

[Luke Hendrickson]

I first saw an Atlantis here in San Francisco some 14 years ago shortly after moving here. For one reason or another, I always found something else to spend my money on while admiring Rivendells from afar. Now that I have my Atlantis, I ride only this and use it for mtb trails, park trails, commuting, and road riding (knobbies don’t make the best road tire, but it’s no matter). For me, I get a little thrill each time I get on my Atlantis and remember just how wonderful the ride is and so see no reason to not use it for everything. 

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

https://www.rivbike.com/products/pletscher-kickstand-hardware?variant=23336090241

This is the chainstay sandwicher that Rivendell sells, it takes pressure off the welds and puts it on the chainstays themselves. The only bad thing is that the over tightening of these will squish tubes, but that can be avoided by not over tightening. 

I don’t use a kickstand, but if I did, I’d use one of these plates…

And for the record, beater bikes are bunk, use the good one.

-Kai

[Richard Rose]

If your Clem is a newer one it should be fine. 

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[Garth]

             Everything is okay Leah. 

[Leah Peterson]

Thank you for your kind words, Jim. I’m glad you enjoy my silly posts because I enjoy writing them. 😊

I am enjoying everyone’s responses and have had a lot to think about after reading them. It’s so true that one cannot just replace a Rivendell. The availability is one factor, the discontinuation of models and changes to existing models is another. The presale for the Platypus was April 2021, and only now, November 2022, has another shipment arrived. So, yes, not a quick replacement if the bike is wrecked or stolen. 

So, there are the above factors. And then there is choosing not to be precious about bikes. SO….what is everyone’s opinion of having a spare in a box? 

I told Pam Murray that she might be the first Rivendell customer in history to wear her bike into steel powder. And what would she do without her tiny 47 cm Betty? There was a Betty frame at a dealer that I thought she should purchase and keep in case her bike is damaged or stolen. I guess that is kind of my plan with my two Platys, too. If the raspberry goes missing, I’ll have the mermaid painted raspberry. I even have the color tube so the painter gets it right! And where did I get this idea? From my recurring nightmare. I used to have differing variations of the same dream. I used to have a One and Only, a Betty Foy, that I would dream would be stolen. I would look for it relentlessly and always, always, I would find a spare Betty frame in a box in the garage and all would be well. Same ending, every time. But this seems rather wasteful, doesn’t it? Just keeping a Rivendell in a box just in case? People will have opinions. I am interested to hear them.

Lastly, I agree with Eric that there is beauty in a bike with miles on it. I want to keep mine nice, but I appreciate beausage. I am of two minds.

Leah

On Nov 5, 2022, at 10:37 PM, J J <junes...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for starting this thread, Leah. I enjoy your writing… as I enjoy Grant’s. He’s very funny even when discussing serious things. At least I see some humor there, whether he intends it or not. 

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[J]

I've always had a problem buying brand new "nice" things, or maybe better said I struggle to use brand new "nice" things as much as I want to use them for fear of causing damage. I blame it on having an impoverished childhood. Even though that has not been the case for the last 20 years since I became an adult, I still have the "resale value" thought floating above every big purchase. So I tend to buy 2nd hand whenever I can, even if it's pristine 2nd hand, and that resale value/use avoidance thought is usually quelled. All that said, I like to ride my bikes as much as possible and I can be rough on things in general, so the thought of keeping them beausage free isn't worth the worry. 

A few years ago my Waterford Sam H was stolen from my front porch, 2 kryptonite U locks drilled out in the night. Insurance was quick to send me the funds for a new bike but how do you replace that bike? Once the replacement is purchased I was supposed to send them proof of purchase and it couldn't be a different kind of bike like a MTB or a different brand, they were adamant about this. This was also just before the pandemic so no supply chain shortage to blame. So I ended up buying something that I didn't really want or like all that much, could never make it comfortable and ended up not riding it at all. Fortunately I still had another bike that I did like so the desire to ride did not wane. So I do understand the fear of losing or damaging the one bike and the extra confidence having a back up bike(s) can inspire when contemplating the level us beausage one is willing to risk. 

As long as we are still riding is all that matter I think

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

While getting a new Rivendell bicycle is a long wait, the demand for bicycles has dropped a ton since the pandemic. The worst case scenario is that you take the geometry (save a copy of the geometry chart) and get a custom builder to build you one. It won't have the fancy lugs, decals or headset, but it will ride pretty much the same. One of my friends tried a Rivendell Roadeo at the Walnut Creek shop and got out his checkbook to buy it, but since it was their last demo frame they wouldn't sell it to him. So he called up Lynskey and got them to build him a custom ti frame with the Roadeo geometry. The irony of ironies was that the day after he got the ti bike built up Rivendell sent around an e-mail saying they'd decided to sell that demo frame! But he's been very happy with that ti frame since.

To be honest I've never managed to ride a steel frame until it breaks. I did have a car hit me and destroy my bridgestone RB-1, but that's a different story. I've broken rack dropouts and ripped front derailleurs off by shifting at the wrong time. I've even torn teeth off aluminum chainrings and sheared off bolts on a crank by mis-timing a shift, but steel frames well built survive a good long time. You'd have to ride as long and as hard as the infamous Jobst Brandt (and bear in mind he was tall and heavy!) to crack a steel frame. Even then he could find a framebuilder who would just add gussetts to the frame, repair it and keep riding.

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[lconley]

I am a bit of both. I have a lot of bikes and Rivs. When I was younger and only had one bike, it was a full Campagnolo, Reynolds 531 Schwinn Paramount P-15 (still have it). I didn't always own shoes back then, but I had my Paramount, I rode it everywhere, to school (college), work, 120 miles back and forth between Daytona Beach and Gainesville, everywhere. It has been repainted once (by me, in the 80's) and is scratched and chipped, but no dings and the chain and gears are clean. I used the F&R Kirtland panniers and handlebar bag until and past when they had holes in them. I am very careful with my bikes and try never to let them get damaged, but I do use them, but due to the number of bikes (down to 25 total, 12 Rivs) none of them sees much use anymore. I am kind of afraid of kickstands outdoors sometimes, because I have had bikes blow over (my wife's Betty Foy most recently) and damage the seat and grips, but that is life. I don't like it, but I don't loose sleep over it after it has happened. The bike that has seen the most use this year is the Mystery Bike / Protoveloosa single speed and it is, I am ashamed to say, dirty (lots of riding on the dirt/limestone levees). I grew up riding in Daytona Beach, and if you did not maintain your bike, it would rust away. A lot of what people call beausage, I would call abuse. I have not owned or used a bike rack on a car since my rooftop bike rack took flight on the Interstate in Iowa with the Paramount back in 1980. I put the bike inside the vehicle now (three cheers for the Honda Element and the Honda Fit).

I respect a well-used, but well-maintained bike. The chain and chainrings and cogs should be reasonably clean. I touch up paint chips with matching (as close as I can get) paint. I don't put stickers on my paint. 

Laing

Delray Beach FL

[aeroperf]

No spare bike in a box for me.  My second bike is fully built up so that if my Sam does come up lame or missing, I have something else immediately.  If I don’t get the Sam back, I can say “I once had a Rivendell, and it was a marvelous ride”.

I have an ’82 Team Fuji road bike that I got in ’86 and rode for many years.  I adjusted the bike to fit me, and the bike adjusted me to fit it.  It was a marvelous ride.  But eventually it became uncomfortable, especially after I got a couple of pins put in my back.  If I had a spare ’82 Team Fuji in a box, it still wouldn’t ride as well as the original did 40 years ago (or my Sam does today), because I’ve changed.

Likewise, my wife has ridden a KTM heavy touring bike for twenty years.  Now that we’re getting older, it doesn’t fit as well as it used to, and hence she wants a Platypus.  Another KTM frame in a box wouldn’t fix the uncomfortablilty [ok, that’s not a word but you get the gist].  Will she enjoy riding the Platypus, or think “I once had an aluminum KTM with full shocks, and it was a marvelous ride.”?

So, lots of things to consider.  Pam Murray might want to try a custom after wearing her Betty to powder.  Or maybe (Heresy!) a different brand.  Beware the “Cult of Riv”.  And record the geometry, not only from Riv’s site, but from places like BikeInsights which can give you stack and reach and trail.  Use that to get a spare now if you can have more than one bike.

[Ted Durant]

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 5:15:18 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

Where are you on the spectrum? What words of wisdom might you have? What strategies do you employ? Do you want to change? Or are you unapologetically staying put on the matter? It might be fun to hear perspectives.

I'm in the "lucky to be able to afford several bikes for lots of different purposes" camp. I don't obsess over them as precious objects - none of them are "collector" bikes that will make my kids millionaires. I do, however, like to keep them clean and well maintained. (Chain waxing is easy and therapeutic.)  My wife and I gave each other a Santana tandem for our wedding and rode it around Vermont for our honeymoon. Over the years of riding, carrying it in or on the car, putting the kid converter on it, getting hit by a car while towing our infant daughter in a Burley trailer (!!!), it gathered its fair share of beausage. For our 30th wedding anniversary we gave it a fresh paint job in Waterford French Blue and a bunch of new parts. It's doing lighter duty, now, and staying pretty. That's the thing about steel-framed bikes, right? You can have it both ways over time.

My Rivendell Road just had a visit to the chiropractor. A week ago a low-flying hawk took my front wheel out from under me. The scratches will remain, but it's sure nice to have the frame straight again. Another 25 years and maybe I'll get it painted again, but I'll keep the Joe Bell paint on there as long as I can.

My "errand" bike (complete with twin-leg kickstand, but no plate!) is a custom Terraferma designed originally for brevets. The geometry is perfect for carrying a bunch of stuff in the basket on the front. I keep it reasonably clean, but it lives in the garage and is going to be riding on salty streets soon.

This thread could easily occur on a Porsche mailing list, too. My Boxster is definitely not "precious"!

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[Jim Whorton]

Great thread.  I would love to ride my Riv every day but I have the following problem: I live in Rochester, NY and during the winter that means riding in a salty gray slush.  So I have what I used to think of as a "beater," a Rivified 80s mountain bike (Peugeot US Express) that I ride to the grocery store a couple time a week, in winter with studded tires.  I painted the bottom bracket shell and dropouts with red Rustoleum.  Rear derailleur is rusty, chain is rusty, it gets nasty.  Can't rinse the salt off during sub-freezing weather, as I learned, or the shifter cable will freeze inside the housing.  I have not got to the point where I can imagine taking my Riv out in that mess.

Here's the other thing, though--I love the Peugeot US Express.  I paid $40 for the frame--later added Nitto bars, a dyno front wheel, a huge double rear basket--but I ride it with very much pleasure.

[Kim Hetzel]

Since this is the my first time owning a Rivendell bicycle; a Clem Jr. "L", I have grown to appreciate it more and more when I ride it. Purchased it mid-September of this year. I am relieved and happy at the same time to be able love this bike, after years from retiring my road bike (2012); a 1973 Cilo Sprint-X turned into a sports touring bike with drop bars. It fit me well. However, I became older and grew tried of riding in the drops. I struggled with my Raleigh Elkhorn in a lot of modifications that led to not riding the bike very much in the long run.

Generally, the material possessions that I own, I take good care of and not see them neglected. Knowing that my Clem Jr. "L" is not your everyday production bike and not that easy to replace, I plan on not locking it up and not letting out of my sight. My Cilo I never locked her up nor out of my sight. I do have a garage for my bikes. Yes, I would be very sad to have my Clem Jr. "L" stolen. I do not have a back up  bike for it at his time.

I know over time, there will be nicks, scuffs, scratches and deep cuts into the paint and frame. To me, that is a reflection a well loved bicycle, just like the Velveteen Rabbit children's book story. Isn't it ?

It as been quite a journey owning fourteen bikes before my Clem Jr. "L" in my life. I am glad that I made this purchase and crossed over a bridge to finding comfort and feeling the joys of cycling once again in my retirement years.  I long to ride off road, again soon. It handles very confident and true over the terrain. It just wants to keep on rolling.

I need to buy some Honjo fenders for it.

Kim Hetzel

Yelm, WA.

[Jason Fuller]

Your two examples, Pam and Ana, are by no coincidence also my two biggest role models when it comes to using the heck out of one's beautiful bike. I try to channel them all the time, and in fact, I recently sold the Charlie because I was finally able to fully accept that its existence in my quiver was to be a "lockable" alternative to the Hillborne - and I should just ride the Hillborne [but be smart about it]. The Hillborne is closing on 8000km and the Bombadil nearing 5000km which is nothing compared to Pam's numbers, but I'm proud of the mileage nonetheless - and optimistic that this is just the beginning.  

I spent a somewhat embarassing amount of money on the Bombadil's repaint, but generally haven't been too fussed about the scratches I've put into that paint - with one exception: it fell over once and the Paul brake lever put a sizeable gouge in the top tube's paint.  It looks horrible because it doesn't look like a scratch from riding, it looks like a scratch from poor care. So if you ever wonder why I put a "BIKE" sticker in such an odd spot on my bike... it's to cover that scratch (photo from today's cold and wet ride) 

[Mack Penner]

Grant's blahg was a bit of a kick in the pants for me. Here is a photo of my just-winterized Joe in a snowbank on my commute this morning. This commute would have previously been earmarked for my "beater," which I've decided to give to my brother, so he can squirm through the snow on 30mm studded tires while I plow (and sometimes squirm), on 2-inchers.

Coping in -20 degrees on the prairies,

Mack

[James Whorton]

Mack, I like that setup on your Joe a lot.  Cool!  Are those 2-inchers studded? 

I use studded tires in winter (Continental Spike Claw 26 x 2.1") that I got cheap through Craigslist.  I have thought of getting a set of studded tires for my Clem, but would need 700c and haven't begun to sort that out. 

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[Mack Penner]

Thanks, Jim. I’m running studs in the front (Schwalbe Marathon 29x2.0), but not in the back. On days like today, studs on both ends would be better, but where I live we are prone to warm (and fierce) chinook winds, which means that the roads will be clearish for a big chunk of the winter, so I compromise. There is a 90+% chance that I’ll lose rear traction and fall a time or two this winter, but I’ll be wearing lots of clothes so it won’t hurt too bad! If I had the clearance you’ve got on a Clem, I might even run something bigger and spikier (?) like the Schwalbe Ice Spiker, which I think comes in 29x2.25. Along with Schwalbe, 45NRTH seems to be the other good option for studs. They have a tire called the Kahva that is also 29x2.25.

Mack

(apologies to the thread if this message appears twice, I'm having email problems)

[Mackenzy Albright]

after riding a lot of bikes in a lot of terrible conditions i've come to find for the most part a semi well maintained bike is pretty robust and not so worried anymore. 

the two things that DO worry me is 

1. bike theft. Having a bike you can lock up. Ideally the workplace has secure bike parking and if I park for less than a few hours neighborhood pending. I no longer bar hop and in general pretty careful about where to park for short periods. Knock on wood aside from a few stolen bits and bobs off my bikes never had any real major theft. 

2. SALT. Previously living in Alberta, they put some sort of demonic liquid ice melt on the paths. I used the 45north Kavas on my winter bike and they were great in all conditions and especially on ice and hardpack snow. The ice melt would melt through snow and ice making some sort of corrosive slurry that felt like riding on wet sand at a beach. The ice slurry ate through an imperfect powder-coat on my SSFGmtb "winter bike". By spring it was bubbling and flaking terribly and lead to a lot of rust that I have yet to deal with since moving other than a good scrub and light oiling. It's fine as "beausage" on my Marino winter bike - but would have been pretty choked if it were a Riv or Crust 4x the cost and meant as a "lifer".  If they just left the packed snow it'd been fine and i'd ride any bike in the snow with studded tires. 

I feel quite guilty if i'm not using most of my bikes regularly. 

[Mack Penner]

Theft scares me , too. I have some pretty hardcore locks and don't lock up for hours at a time if I can avoid it.

It may be possible to breathe a little easier in places where the bike culture is, let's say, highly modern. This might encompass a lot of places. Even if I struggle to totally believe it, a bike shop owner around here in southern Alberta told me that a decently locked bike without suspension basically isn't going to be stolen. I'm sure that silver or polished (ie "old looking") components make a bike even less interesting to would-be thieves. A basket might make a thief roll their eyes! Swept back bars? Puke! Suspension mountain bikes dominate the scene here, and I'm sure that the rapid takeover of all sorts of e-bikes further concentrates the efforts of real thieves on a particular part of the spectrum.

Something Riv-ish and well-locked so as not to entice an opportunist is probably pretty safe in my neck of the woods, at least, even if I still worry.

Mack

[Scott Calhoun]

Great topic with interesting responses. Like Leah, I'm both guilty and innocent. I ride my bikes a lot, but I'm also guilty of planning so I don't have to lock up fancy bikes for significant periods of time. My most used and useful bike, my MAP randonneur, was also my most expensive. I keep a couple of u-locks at bike racks at stores and cafes I frequent. I also have been riding a 1994 Bridgestone RB-1 that I love, and maybe it is not on the radar for thieves as much, but I'd still hate to lose it.

Which brings me to my biggest bike anxiety: my favorite riding bikes are simply not replaceable (or at least not easily so). Mitch Pryor of MAP has left the bike biz, and finding another nice '94 62cm RB-1 could take forever. The bike thieves in our town are pretty indiscriminate about what they take. Scanning the Tucson Stolen Bikes instagram profile, I see every kind of bike: newer and vintage, MTB, and road, utility to fixie. 

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

I've lost more cameras than I can count to theft, damage, drops, etc. But to me, that's the price of getting good photos. A camera sitting in a closet won't get good photos, and a bike in a secured garage not getting ridden won't leave you with good memories. (Worse, when that bike gets stolen the thief managed to get a bike with very little mileage on it!) I think there's no way around it. Again, my back up plan is to have a very firm idea of what geometry the bike has (down to the diagrams when possible), and then in a pinch I can have a custom builder replicate it. My recent experience this year of cracking a frame (the frame builder jumped me to the top of the queue since it was a warranty replacement) was what made me realized that having a second nice road bike isn't an extravagance. So that's another viable alternative.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/671908f3-913c-4f2e-a9ad-09004c071501n%40googlegroups.com.

[Jim Bronson]

I ride my Rivendells for almost everything, but I'm not going to lock them up outside a grocery store or a bar.  Or an outdoor music festival, like Austin City Limits with 75,000 people.  I have my beater for those things.

The Rivs get 99% of all the riding I do.  They get rode hard and put away wet.  Grant needent fret.

Jim

Austin suburbs, TX

On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:15 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was the bike for?

I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to bring.” And she was right, and I did. 

Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell off a cliff. 

So, who truly loves their Rivendell? The one who lavishes it with care and protection? Or the one who pulls it out of the garage and into all of life - the mundane and the adventurous? 

On one end of the spectrum we have those who will only take a Rivendell out for special occasions so as not to spoil it, and on the other…well, we have Pam and Ana, who will give it a good thrashing. (Oh, don’t take it personally, friends, I’m being funny about both types of owners.)

I find myself wanting to be precious but fighting it and succeeding *most* of the time. I’m lucky that the raspberry paint hides beausage and dirt, so it looks pretty new. But a dent in the top tube or a large chip in the paint would really hurt my feelings. Heaven help me. 

Where are you on the spectrum? What words of wisdom might you have? What strategies do you employ? Do you want to change? Or are you unapologetically staying put on the matter? It might be fun to hear perspectives.

Leah

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[lucky...@gmail.com]

Austin City Limits needs valet bike parking like Sacramento Area Bicycle Advocates offers at concerts. I parked a lot of crazy nice bikes at Aftershock this year! No Rivendells on my night though. 

In context, I ride my Atlantis and lean it on stuff and let it get scratches and dirty, but in the absence of bike valet or what I know to be safe parking, I don’t lock it to public racks.

On Nov 8, 2022, at 16:34, Jim Bronson <jim.b...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mackenzy Albright]

When I was living in Alberta, I had an art studio near a bottle depot. We had a lot of houseless folks in the area for that reason. We were pretty good pals with some of the regulars and we had some very interesting conversations about bike thief's. The main points i remember that i use as general rules: 

1. bikes and parts that can be bartered - 26" wheels are hot. old mountain bikes. anything with QR. Any seat is in danger. 

2. Convenience - anything that can be swiped or taken off easy. (QR) Leaving a bike "for a moment" etc. Leaving a bike in a dark corner street late at night. Leaving it alone draws attention. Riding your carbon roadie and leaving it outside the shop to grab an espresso - its gone. Parking your bike in the same spot every single day makes it easy for more organized thief's. 

3. Making it inconvenient means locking well lit high foot traffic zones, near spaces where other cyclists lock up (we kinda watch out for suspect behavior) coffee shops. bike shops. bars can be OK as there are often smokers outside etc. other social sort of spaces. 

4. if somebody really wants it, they'll find a way. 

[Marc Irwin]

I've often wondered how frustrating it is for Grant.  So many of his bikes end up as garage ornaments.   I've tried to explain to interested people that the fancy lugs and paint get our attention, but the geometry, ride and handling are what keep us on the bikes.   My '87 Trek has nice lugs and looks cool,  but it hands in the garage while the Rivs get the play.   I've used my Hunq for everything six is why I'm on my 4th set of fenders and 3rd paint job. The Sam gets better treatment but several recreational rides a week.   I don't mind locking either at a store, restaurant or bar with a really, really good lock,  but do have a Soma Buena Vista I use for daily commuting and a cheap aluminum mtb to use here in Michigan during the winter.   Despite the practical choices I've given myself,  the Rivs get the play time. 

[Mark C]

It is interesting to read how much our individual situations vary. I'm lucky to live where bike theft isn't a big deal. I know one friend who had a bike stolen in the past many years. He left it unlocked on the his back porch. Then another friend spotted someone riding it on the rail trail and got it returned. I'm not meaning to minimize others situations; it sounds awful having to worry about theft all the time and having to carry bulky locks.

I pick up strays (bikes) way too often and have been trying to get rid of extras lately, but I've kept a few beater bikes around. It is fun to ride the old Raleigh 3 speed once in a while. Until I got my Rosco Platypus I also put a lot  of time on my old mountain bikes on my daily neighborhood rides. Now the Rosco gets almost all the riding. When I finally get some wider rims (so that I can get wider tires), the Rosco can pretty much replace my mountain bikes.

But someone else mentioned the big, big deal for me that doesn't seem to impact most people - road salt. It is hilly here and they really cover the roads with salt. I keep at least one sacrificial bike for those days, and even then try to stay out of the resulting salt river on the roads. If it weren't for that, I'd intended my Rosco to effectively be my beater bike, plus my do-everything bike. Still, it is just fun to have some variety, though the bar for fun bikes has been raised since the Rosco arrived.

[Brian McDermott]

Like Jason, I paid a somewhat embarrassing amount for a repaint on my Hillborne, but I'm not overly-finicky about it. I'm careful at bike racks and when I lean it against something, but I don't wipe it down with a diaper either. Also, the painter lost my headbadge, so I put this Gonza one on (i found it on ebay, and am an aviation nerd; it also sorta works as an homage to the Bleriot). When I put that on, my hand slipped when the epoxy was already on it, and I had to keep it a bit high on the headtube rather than centered, but I figured a slight imperfection is fine. Also notice the bike is pretty dirty- I just rode the GAP and C&O from Pittsburgh to DC. I'll clean my chain and wipe my rims down, but that's about it. I use this bike as my go-to, and I don't mind locking it up as the town I live in isn't a hub of bike theft. If I still lived in Eugene, OR though, I'd be more cautious leaving it locked up for really any period of time, and would be more inclined to ride a "beater" for library trips etc. 

[Leah Peterson]



There’s something really appealing to me about keeping track of the mileage on your Rivendell, and seeing how far it takes you. Pam has close to 69,000 miles on her Betty and I want to know how that feels to have traversed so much ground together. I bet any other bike she throws a leg over feels foreign. And then that makes me want to preserve the bike as best I can, because nothing else will do, so I must keep it close and keep it nice. And therein lies the vicious, precious cycle.

Today I rode with the other Riv Rider in my city, and we stopped for lunch. There was no bike rack so we locked our bikes together and u-locked my wheel. “It will take a truck to move these bikes,” he said. But as he wrapped his Abus Bordo around my top tube, he noticed my grimaced expression. He said it would be fine and it was. I’m working on it, people!

On Nov 8, 2022, at 7:34 PM, Jim Bronson <jim.b...@gmail.com> wrote:



I ride my Rivendells for almost everything, but I'm not going to lock them up outside a grocery store or a bar.  Or an outdoor music festival, like Austin City Limits with 75,000 people.  I have my beater for those things.

The Rivs get 99% of all the riding I do.  They get rode hard and put away wet.  Grant needent fret.

Jim

Austin suburbs, TX

On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:15 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was the bike for?

I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to bring.” And she was right, and I did. 

Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell off a cliff. 

So, who truly loves their Rivendell? The one who lavishes it with care and protection? Or the one who pulls it out of the garage and into all of life - the mundane and the adventurous? 

On one end of the spectrum we have those who will only take a Rivendell out for special occasions so as not to spoil it, and on the other…well, we have Pam and Ana, who will give it a good thrashing. (Oh, don’t take it personally, friends, I’m being funny about both types of owners.)

I find myself wanting to be precious but fighting it and succeeding *most* of the time. I’m lucky that the raspberry paint hides beausage and dirt, so it looks pretty new. But a dent in the top tube or a large chip in the paint would really hurt my feelings. Heaven help me. 

Where are you on the spectrum? What words of wisdom might you have? What strategies do you employ? Do you want to change? Or are you unapologetically staying put on the matter? It might be fun to hear perspectives.

Leah

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[Joe Bernard]

The lock is touching your (not a) toptube! On the Raspberry Racer!!! I can't look. I'm not looking 🙈

[Leah Peterson]

This is the treatment I’ve been subjected to this year. Next thing you know I’ll be as bad as him, riding around with my busted kickstand plate.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 10, 2022, at 8:36 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

The lock is touching your (not a) toptube! On the Raspberry Racer!!! I can't look. I'm not looking 🙈

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[ascpgh]

My Rambouillet has been up and down the GAP/C&O in parts and its entirety numerous times and in all sorts of conditions. If you zoom in on its picture on my post you'll see the scarfing on the right seat stay that came from a person knocking it from a stable pedal prop along a brick planter then trying to stop the fall grabbing one end of the handlebar, guiding the tube on a slow, weighted downward drag along the top edge of the brick. Just paint, no metal damaged. Very unlikely to cosmetically repair without a major repaint, I rattle can clear coated the bare metal and keep an eye on it. Riding leaves marks and I do ride it. 

The non stock ivory blocking on the rear end of my Rambouillet is how I recovered from the baring of metal to re-braze the brake bridge when it broke loose a couple years back. A local builder put me back together but the stark area and margins to cover called for more than the previous plan used on the irregular scratches. I found a rattle can match for the ivory color, primed, painted and clear coated the area after a good surface prep. Black Sharpie to border the amrgin of the Ivory and Creamsicle. 

Each violation of the paint finish triggered a "repaint!" reflex in my mind, built over the time spent searching for receiving, riding, appreciating and ultimately valuing my ownership of a retired model. The other side of my brain adds these things up and said to me that after a driveside rear dropout replacement and prepaint, the events that have elicited that return to stock condition response would add up to a very nice custom frame and fork, which it did, by not executing on impulse. 

My Ram's still a head turner and not compromised from its original form other than how it's looking these days, which is care for and ridden. A lot.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[George Schick]

I was reminded of this blog post yesterday when I got my '72 Fuji Finest out for a ride and discovered this.  I don't recall doing anything that might have caused it other than having locked it up against a small wrought iron fence to go into a grocery.  'Course, this was a DIY rattle can paint job so it's not a very substantial finish.

[Jay Connolly]

When I build up a new bike, I’m precious all the way. I often use a transparent protective tape anywhere a cable might rub or where experience has taught me that I will pick up a ding. And then I’m paranoid for a while. Inevitably, I relax, allow the bikes to wear the signs of use, and abandon the paranoia. Which is a more manageable way to live.

Jay

Vancouver Island, BC, Canada

[Patrick Moore]

I'm happy with good powdercoats on my Rivendells and customs -- the most-loved gofast has a lovely Ford blue powdercoat. In fact, some powdercoats have been so good that they're better than most paint jobs I've seen, but of course the principal value is lower cost with adequate protection if done right. I prefer to put my $$ into frame (for fit and feel) and parts (for performance, durability, but yes, also bike vanity).

[Dustin]

Great thread.  It's good to know I'm not alone.  My saving grace is that I got my Joe A used from a twowheeledtexan in this group.  A bike in great, but not perfect, shape is so much easier for me to enjoy instead of preserve.  

Side note: Wow, Mack!  That's inspiring.  A dedicated Riv for a dedicated rider.  Even more so since I have the same color Joe.  I'll never look at my mid-atlantic "winter" commute the same way.  

D

[Patrick Moore]

Sheldon Brown had a fun webpage describing his beater winter bike somewhere in northern New England; IIRC it was a cheap mountain bike converted to fixed or ss with the absolutely most throwaway parts rideable; he'd park it outside all winter and just dump a bit of cheap motor oil on the moving bits every so often to keep it running. Then he'd replace the drivetrain and cables each year.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2022 at 1:34 PM Mackenzy Albright <mackenzy...@gmail.com> wrote:

... 2. SALT. Previously living in Alberta, they put some sort of demonic liquid ice melt on the paths. I used the 45north Kavas on my winter bike and they were great in all conditions and especially on ice and hardpack snow. The ice melt would melt through snow and ice making some sort of corrosive slurry that felt like riding on wet sand at a beach. The ice slurry ate through an imperfect powder-coat on my SSFGmtb "winter bike". By spring it was bubbling and flaking terribly and lead to a lot of rust that I have yet to deal with since moving other than a good scrub and light oiling. It's fine as "beausage" on my Marino winter bike - but would have been pretty choked if it were a Riv or Crust 4x the cost and meant as a "lifer".  If they just left the packed snow it'd been fine and i'd ride any bike in the snow with studded tir

[Patrick Moore]

If that's -20 degrees American, I salute your fortitude. I've gone out running at 20 below freedom degrees (in socialist celsius Kebek City, Canada) but riding with the extra wind effect: man! Tho' from the photo that's dry snow; I do recall how, below about 20*F packed snow didn't melt under the pressure of your weight and felt -- and sounded! -- when walking on it (and running on it) rather like stiff styrofoam.

Query: Does the sizeable load on a non-low-trail bike compromise handling in slippery conditions? I've always (apart from a 12-month experiment with the low trail Herse) preferred rear loads.

Tip: If you want excellent snow handling, get one of these. I owned one for 12 or 18 months and was lucky enough to be able to ride it briefly in snow and ice, and it is indeed liberating!

[Patrick Moore]

Grant isn't saying it saddens him that people use beaters for everyday riding, he's expressing doubt about being afraid to ride lovely Rivendells in any but "ideal" and "special" occasions.

I largely agree with Grant; sure, have a pretty or "vanity" bike but don't be paranoid about it; but have others that you don't mind scraping or loading or locking up outside.

My own habit is made easier because I have bikes customized pretty exactly for the different kinds of riding I do: stripped gofast, fully equipped errand bike with almost identical geometry and fit and sharing many of the same parts; "road" bike for our sandy dirt; and a beater single speed sandy dirt bike with upright bar.

The gofast gets expensive parts and is treated with extra care, tho' I certainly do use it for grocery shopping (up to~30 lb in the occasional-use Sackville Medium, and I even ride it occasionally on firm dirt and gravel; the errand bike gets expensive parts but I built it to load it and park it in bike racks at need (tho' I rarely have need, and I'd not do so unless things were very safe); road bike for dirt built with mid-level parts where possible, tho' top of line rims tires bar brakes and saddle; Monocog gets top of line tires but otherwise acceptable low end or already used parts (ENO single crank because it gives a low Q and I got a good deal; thanks Bill).

I would like to add a throwaway utility bike for shopping lockup in less than perfectly safe conditions, but so far I have been able to wheel my bike into the stores and businesses I can comfortably ride to.

Commenting as I read the other parts of the blog.

But at least the Hummer e-bike has an integrated kickstand plate!

There are e-bikes and e-bikes; some are really motorcycles; so it all depends on what you mean.

There have been near-quarrelsome debates about e-bikes on the iBoblist and the bulk of opinion, mine included, is that, if the motors are assist devices -- meaning they are not little motorcycles -- and if they have a ~ 20 mph cutoff, they are acceptable for iBoblist discussion. In fact, one of the moderators (whose name I shall not shame by revealing it -- but you know who you are) owns what looks to be a very nice (and expensive) e-bike to regain fitness after an illness or injury. At closing-in on 68, I would certain consider an e-assist bike if the alternative was riding less.

So, including the e-assist type in push-bike legislation and regulation doesn't bother me. I'd regulate the motorcycle type much more strictly; perhaps regulate it as a moped.

As for the new Silver line of products, I wish they'd go ever more against the grain and sponsor a close-ratio 3-speed hub with pretty aluminum shell, like the AR (direct, +7%, -7%). (Kidding, but it certainly would continue their cross-wise product approach.)

+ 1 and 1,000 more for the basic Shimano aero ever; lever perfection, IMO.

Afghan people (Afghani is the currency), or rather the dominant Pathans, often have light hair and blue eyes, especially when children.

Love sardines.

Skipped to beausage bit; read the other stuff many times before.

I'll spare you another photo of the 1999 Joe Starck gofast.

On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 4:15 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was the bike for?

I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to bring.” And she was right, and I did. 

Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell off a cliff. 

So, who truly loves their Rivendell? The one who lavishes it with care and protection? Or the one who pulls it out of the garage and into all of life - the mundane and the adventurous? 

On one end of the spectrum we have those who will only take a Rivendell out for special occasions so as not to spoil it, and on the other…well, we have Pam and Ana, who will give it a good thrashing. (Oh, don’t take it personally, friends, I’m being funny about both types of owners.)

I find myself wanting to be precious but fighting it and succeeding *most* of the time. I’m lucky that the raspberry paint hides beausage and dirt, so it looks pretty new. But a dent in the top tube or a large chip in the paint would really hurt my feelings. Heaven help me. 

Where are you on the spectrum? What words of wisdom might you have? What strategies do you employ? Do you want to change? Or are you unapologetically staying put on the matter? It might be fun to hear perspectives.

Leah

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

Forgot to add that in fact I had a pretty 2003 custom derailleur Riv Road modified into a fixed gear for commuting and errand use for years back when I commuted 30 or 40 miles per day 3+ days per week, then for errands after I started working at home; even put it on bus bike racks, Joe Bell paint and all. I had built it with chichi parts and hung it on a wall where it largely remained while I commuted on beaters, until I said, this is silly and converted it. I had much more fun with it that way.

[Josh Brown]

Imo one of the saddest things you can write in a FS post is "barely ridden"

[Mack Penner]

Patrick, Dustin: don't worry too much about me. -20 and calmish around here is much preferable to the alternative of, say, 5 degrees with 80kmh winds. One way or the other, Patrick is correct: it's dry as can be in these parts. My coldest-feeling commutes were living near Toronto, where it's much wetter. I'm also not that hardcore - my buddy Andrew in Calgary (hi Andrew, he's in the group) is twice as hardcore when it comes to winter commutes, and in harsh winter places like Edmonton and Winnipeg there are some real maniacs, I think.

To your question, Patrick, I am large load capable with the Joe but the basket/rack combo is pretty light, and the bags usually aren't full. Often just a big U-lock in the saddle bag and my messenger in the basket. Today, not joking, I lost traction and did a slow-motion-almost-360-degree-pirouette/donut on a parking lot ice sheet and stayed upright, so handling is fine!

Anyways, blah blah blah, I'm glad to be riding the Joe when I wouldn't have before.

Mack

[Roberta]

This got me thinking about most of my possessions. I take care of what I own and although careful, little is so precious that I won’t use something, even my Rivs. (There was a time I wouldn’t use something because it was “too nice” for everyday so I’d use it once a year or two, missing the joy on the other days of the year.)  Still, I am careful. What I am more concerned with is theft and road salt. 

[JAS]

I'm like Roberta; I take care of my stuff and try hard to overcome the desire to keep everything in like-new condition by "saving" items for special times.  Sometimes I have to take a breath and have a little self-talk when it comes to my Rivs.  "It's OK, it's just a bike.  It's meant to get dirty.  It will be fine on the bike rack."  This was repeated many times when taking my dear Platypus on the rack for the first time,  knowing I had a five-hour drive and Platy would be covered in road grime.  This is even worse when the weather is snotty.  However, I've figured out to cover the saddle and just live with the rest. Cleaning rags are essential gear and besides, it's more important to ride the bike, dirty or not.

Theft is always at the back of my mind, especially when I found out how easy it is to cut a lock.  It has happened twice.  I went on a summer camping trip and left the keys to my 1Up rack at home.  A handy camp-host with a cordless grinder made quick work of it.  Another time, I used my OttoLock at the grocery store rack.  The combination dial failed, so I went next door to the hardware store to borrow a bolt cutter.  The kind clerk brought one out and cut the lock with one snip!  Lessons learned....but still, I lock it up with my new lock and smile broadly when I come out of the grocery store, see that beautiful design and relish the honesty of humanity.  

Joyce

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I was on Instagram this morning and saw a post that echoed the spirit of this thread. The user kindly translated it to English from his native Japanese, and it was so perfect that I can only imagine it was even better in the original language.

[Joe Bernard]

What a beautiful way to express it. 

[John Dewey]

RBW, here's one that we've been riding daily for all its 18 years...and it's precious as well. Gratefully, we can all have our pie and eat it too.

BEST / Jock Dewey

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

That is one gorgeous Rambouillet. Is the background that dam at the bottom of Mt. Tam on the Mill Valley side on the way to the 7 sisters?

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[John Dewey]

Indeed, those Seven Sisters just up the hill.

[Jason Fuller]

I do like that sentiment. In the spirit of avoiding being too precious to use the bike as much as it should be, I sold the Charlie Gallop because I finally accepted that it was basically my other Riv(s) but I was just more willing to lock it up (within reason). It wasn't a good enough reason for the Hillborne or Bombadil to stay home. 

It seems like the Hillborne is the more logical equivalent to the Charlie, but given the way I had the Charlie set up (as more of a city hybrid kind of bike) I'm tailoring the Bombadil for the job - it's received a pannier rack and some stickers; the latter probably doesn't do anything other than signal to my brain that this is a modest bike, regardless of its pedigree or value. It has also received some bike rack scuffs. 

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[Caroline Golum]

I was searching this group for a specific query when I stumbled upon this thread so excuse the revival here but it was very heartening. 

Last week I brought my bike in for a stem swap (shoulder problem, need something shorter) and found out over the weekend that the old stem is frozen (among other issues). Given that I’ve had the bike almost 15 years, and haven’t had a proper overhaul in nearly as long, I was in a real funk about this all day. It’s a costly and time-consuming repair, and I may be sans bike for a few weeks. All day I thought: How could this happen? I’m responsible! I’ve worked in bike shops! I maintain the fine things in my care! Then I read the accounts in this thread and it made me feel a lot better. 

This is a bike I paid for in installments, it is the first truly fine bike I’ve ever owned. And in the ensuing years I’ve ridden it daily in all manner of weather, left it out overnight after having one too many on too many occasions, and put it through a litany of errands and adventures. It’s like the Argo or Washington’s axe: I’ve replaced things here and there, it’s had many different looks and set-ups, but always the same great ride. And ultimately, this is the point of having a great bike: it’s fantastic every time. So thanks everyone for inadvertently reassuring me that a seized stem isn’t the end of the world (though it sucks). 

[Leah Peterson]

Hi Caroline,

I don’t believe I’ve had the pleasure of “meeting” you on this site, but I am glad to have had the chance via this thread today. Welcome, RivSister. 

I’m so sorry about your seized stem. Really and truly. I imagine you feel a little sick at heart about the whole thing. But you also wisely acknowledge the enrichment the bike has brought to your life. You have identified the problem and you are getting the bike serviced now, and this will not happen to you again. (You’ll be heavy-handed with the grease after this.) It will be ok! Also, you have done some of us a service because I bet there will be some who will read this post and then check their stems and seat posts.

I really enjoyed reading your post and picturing your life with this bike. Would you delight us with a little more of the story? What is the bike you have? How did you choose this bike? Do you have a photo of it? I love to see well-used bikes. They have so much character!

Again, I’m SO sorry about your stem, but if Grant knew (I’m assuming it’s one of his bikes) he would be tickled. You did exactly what he hopes - you have used the bike for 15 years and have not made an ornament of it. Bravo, and well done.

Leah

On Jun 13, 2023, at 8:41 PM, Caroline Golum <carolin...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was searching this group for a specific query when I stumbled upon this thread so excuse the revival here but it was very heartening. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5a6b87f7-1541-4d11-9374-13883926bb9dn%40googlegroups.com.

[Caroline Golum]

Thank you Leah <3 it’s a real hassle dealing with this during the high season but better late than never. And while it is a common problem I still feel like a major scrub!

And apologies for neglecting to include my bike details and setup in the reply - I ride a 50cm Betty Foy that I ordered from Riv way back in October 2009! This is part of my anxiety about the whole stem issue - the bike is irreplaceable, so the prospect of messing up my bike after so many hard-ridden years is upsetting, to say the least. 

Anyway, some backstory: I started riding in NYC when I turned 20, figuring if I was still living in my car-dominated hometown I would’ve acquired a car by that time. In HS I hung around a punk bike coop and learned basic repairs and rode an old three-speed Free Spirit mixte before I left home. My first NYC bike was a Bianchi Milano with an internal 8spd hub, which I loved, but it wasn’t quite “enough bike” for me. I was working at a bike shop at the time, and wanted more options so I could get really specific with the build. I ended up selling the Milano for half the cost of my Riv frame and road a beater until I finished making the payments (I’m especially proud of the nail polish touch up job I did on the paint). After some shopping around looking at Soma, Mercian, etc. but went with Riv because of their legendary quality. 

I built up the bike at a shop at which I was working, and it’s been an extension of my body ever since. Picking and choosing the parts, poring over build options, etc. taught me a lot about bikes and bike maintenance, which is something I was already interested in. It didn’t occur to me that these bikes were such cult objects at the time - I just wanted something well-made, good-looking, and functioning. I like to say it was the first time in my life that I got *exactly* what I wanted, and despite years of wear the ol’ gal still turns heads everywhere I go. 

It’s also had an inadvertently positive effect on my romantic life - I got the bike around the same time one of my guy friends got a VO, and our shared affinity for fussy bike stuff became a feature of our friendship. Now he’s my boyfriend, and we still bike everywhere together <3 When I told him about this stem problem over the weekend, he very quickly pointed out that it’s better to use your bike constantly and have to fix it than have it sitting in a garage indefinitely. 

Well if you’ve read this far no doubt you ought to see the bike itself, so here’s a photo I took recently during an outing in Prospect Park: https://imgur.com/a/RoSql4k

[peec...@yahoo.com]

The trails I've been riding lately are very dusty.  I've purposely not wiped that dust off my Atlantis MIT because it reminds me of the pleasurable miles I've covered recently.  Beausage is a real thing!  Just keep the drivetrain clean.  I think we all express our love in different ways and at some point I'll give my bike a good cleaning and admire it all over again.    Tim.

[Leah Peterson]

Wow, Caroline! What a story. And that Betty - I have never seen one unpainted. It is unpainted, right? Hard to tell in the photo but I suppose it could be a very matte gray. Did it come that way? Did you order it that way? I’m so curious.

I so enjoyed reading about your learning journey. Bike parts, mechanical stuff, choosing just what you wanted in the build and getting it exactly right. What a rich history you and this Betty share. Do you have any idea how many miles you might have on it? Pam Murray just crossed over 74,000 on her 2010 Betty (I think, but I can’t find her photo now…) and it’s awesome to know there’s another well-traveled Betty out there.

Our stories are more alike than different. My first fine bike was also a Betty Foy! I had only Walmart and Target up until then, so when I got that Betty it felt like sheer bliss. It’s also funny to hear you use the words “extension of my body” because I have used that exact description - and probably on this very forum - about my Betty. Because you’re right; the bike feels like part of you and all other bikes feel foreign. You don’t even think about it - just jump on the Betty and it’s as natural as walking with your own two feet.

With that said, I really hope the stem is not seized so badly. There are surely some tricks the shop can employ and maybe the stem will come loose. I’m just so sorry (and in the high season, too!) and please let us know how it all turns out for you.

RivSisters,

Leah

On Jun 14, 2023, at 5:27 AM, Caroline Golum <carolin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Leah <3 it’s a real hassle dealing with this during the high season but better late than never. And while it is a common problem I still feel like a major scrub!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/495264a3-fe28-4ed7-ae7e-f58c9267be97n%40googlegroups.com.

[Piaw Na]

A seized quill stem is one of the problems the aheadset style stem was designed to solve. In time, water, sweat, etc., goes down between the neck of the stem and the headset entryway and  causes galvanic corrosion. The preventive measure is to remove the stem once a year, regrease it, and put it back in, but of course if the bike's working and you don't need to mess with stem height it's very easy to forget (I haven't done it in years and I have to put a calendar entry for myself to remember to do it now that I do have a bike with a quill stem). You're supposed to do it with the seat post too.

[Caroline Golum]

Thanks everyone, appreciate the well-wishes because this is truly a pain in the ass. 

And Leah, to answer your questions: 

1) I have no idea what kind of mileage I've clocked, but for a time I was commuting anywhere from 5-9 mi/day five days/wk for months on end, so even at a conservative estimate of 2,000 miles/year I've probably done about 26k. That doesn't include longer rides, going to and fro from different events and errands, etc. Could be more! I never bothered to get a computer. 

2) The paint job is a custom color I chose when I ordered the frame (I wasn't wild about the sky blue, to be honest), although I did inquire about a raw steel/clear coat combo initially. One of these days I'm going to have the whole frame stripped, shipped, and repainted, but for now I just gotta get it out of the shop! 

And PIAW - agree, unless you're regularly making adjustments to the cockpit these things fall by the wayside. I didn't mess with the stem until recently, when I tried to raise it in order to adjust my reach while I deal with this shoulder issue. Tug at the sweater and the whole thing unravels, as they say. 

[Vincent Tamer]

I have a bad mental habit of doing this with not just my clem but all my gear. I don't like to mistreat my things but it can become an unhealthy obsession. Something to meditate on that some will find morbid: our obsession with our bikes (or anything else) remaining pristine and beautiful is ultimately a fear of death. It's not good to fear death, so just enjoy the things you own and love them well. Take care of them but don't avoid using them so that they remain in art gallery quality.

[Pam Bikes]

Thankfully I've removed my stem a few times - usually to box my bike when flying.  So hopefully my stem won't get seized.  Last time was to Philly when I saw Leah and met the Rivsisters.  I'm planning to be there in March.  Keep riding your Betty Caroline.  They go forever.  Only at 72,000 so far.  

[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

On Wed, Jun 14, 2023 at 12:13 PM Pam Bikes <pamlike...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thankfully I've removed my stem a few times - usually to box my bike when flying.  So hopefully my stem won't get seized.  Last time was to Philly when I saw Leah and met the Rivsisters.  I'm planning to be there in March.  Keep riding your Betty Caroline.  They go forever.  Only at 72,000 so far.  

I did some more research and it turns out that some mechanics recommend anti-seize: https://amzn.to/43Xl92j. Seems like it might be good for those of us who're forgetful. 

[Mojo]

In the winter of 2011, I bought a Mark-Nobilette-built Legolas. It was serious overlap with my 2001 custom Riv Road and 2005 Quickbeam. I justified it as my mixed-surface, foul-weather, fine-riding bike. I built it up during that winter with pleasing-to-me parts including a Ritchey Logic crank and a Shimergo drive train (Campy 11-spd Chorus brifters mated to Shimano 9 speed XT derailers (12-36 to 34/46 gearing)). My very first ride, I took it out to the nearby irrigation ditch to snap a photo with some mountains in the background. I leaned it up against a concrete irrigation valve and before I could snap a pic my sparkling new Legolas slid down the edge of the concrete and into the ditch. The top tube scratches were horrible. But those scratches freed me and the Legolas. I've ridden it plenty on paved roads in nice weather, but also without hesitation in gravel, snow, mud mixed with cow scat, thunderstorms with small hail. Big scratches for vanity instead of adventure was quite upsetting, but it has worked out for me and this fine bike. 

Joe in GJT CO

[Leah Peterson]

Gut-wrenching. But also beautifully said. I can almost hear the scraping of metal on concrete and it makes me a little weak.

“But those scratches freed me and the Legolas.” 

I’m going to be thinking about this tonight. It applies to more than just bikes…

Leah

On Jun 15, 2023, at 6:16 PM, 'Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

In the winter of 2011, I bought a Mark-Nobilette-built Legolas. It was serious overlap with my 2001 custom Riv Road and 2005 Quickbeam. I justified it as my mixed-surface, foul-weather, fine-riding bike. I built it up during that winter with pleasing-to-me parts including a Ritchey Logic crank and a Shimergo drive train (Campy 11-spd Chorus brifters mated to Shimano 9 speed XT derailers (12-36 to 34/46 gearing)). My very first ride, I took it out to the nearby irrigation ditch to snap a photo with some mountains in the background. I leaned it up against a concrete irrigation valve and before I could snap a pic my sparkling new Legolas slid down the edge of the concrete and into the ditch. The top tube scratches were horrible. But those scratches freed me and the Legolas. I've ridden it plenty on paved roads in nice weather, but also without hesitation in gravel, snow, mud mixed with cow scat, thunderstorms with small hail. Big scratches for vanity instead of adventure was quite upsetting, but it has worked out for me and this fine bike. 

Joe in GJT CO

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<Tennessee Pass.jpg>

[rlti...@gmail.com]

I’d still be in therapy if that happened to me.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 15, 2023, at 3:16 PM, 'Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

In the winter of 2011, I bought a Mark-Nobilette-built Legolas. It was serious overlap with my 2001 custom Riv Road and 2005 Quickbeam. I justified it as my mixed-surface, foul-weather, fine-riding bike. I built it up during that winter with pleasing-to-me parts including a Ritchey Logic crank and a Shimergo drive train (Campy 11-spd Chorus brifters mated to Shimano 9 speed XT derailers (12-36 to 34/46 gearing)). My very first ride, I took it out to the nearby irrigation ditch to snap a photo with some mountains in the background. I leaned it up against a concrete irrigation valve and before I could snap a pic my sparkling new Legolas slid down the edge of the concrete and into the ditch. The top tube scratches were horrible. But those scratches freed me and the Legolas. I've ridden it plenty on paved roads in nice weather, but also without hesitation in gravel, snow, mud mixed with cow scat, thunderstorms with small hail. Big scratches for vanity instead of adventure was quite upsetting, but it has worked out for me and this fine bike. 

Joe in GJT CO

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[Joe Bernard]

I'd be freaking, too, but in the end Grant's right, the paint is a cover for the tubes. I saw pics of my Nobilette-built before paint and that's the frame. We can repaint them someday! 

[Mojo]

The Legolas scratches are indeed bad, but not very noticable when you ride through the right kind of country.

Joe in GJT

[Jamie Hascall]

My Saluki and my wife Betsy's Glorious are Rivs that truly got used and were not precious. The Glorious lived with a pair of Amish basket panniers for the whole time we lived in Santa Fe and was a true cargo hauler. I recall the mileage on the bike computer was past 10K miles when the battery died and erased the total, so we never knew the cumulative mileage Betsy traveled while there. Here in Seattle it got supplanted by an electric bike for the long and hilly commute to her clinic downtown and the Glorious sat patiently in the garage waiting for attention and some fresh tires. It's looking like that time may be here as we unearth both bikes.

The Saluki has gone through many iterations of bars and racks and I used it for everything short of carrying a bale of straw for the garden. It needs a new set of brake pads as these have dried out out, but otherwise looks almost as good as new. I've been so impressed with the toughness of the paint to survive all the sun and grit of New Mexico with such aplomb. Sadly, the beautiful blue of the Glorious was not so tough and it has the patina of the life it has had.

Jamie

[Cyclofiend Jim]

I still hold in my mind the comment that GP wrote many years ago:

"A bike with no scratches has no stories to tell..."

[Leah Peterson]

What a treat to see Jamie’s pair of old Rivendells (esp that Glorius) and hear their stories. I have not heard that quote Jim gave us from Grant, but I’m very glad to know it. I’m also motivated to get a cyclometer to keep track of my miles. I have been using the workout app on my iPhone, but that does not tell me which bikes get the miles…

On Jun 18, 2023, at 8:53 PM, Cyclofiend Jim <cyclo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I still hold in my mind the comment that GP wrote many years ago:

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[Piaw Na(藍俊彪)]

What a treat to see Jamie’s pair of old Rivendells (esp that Glorius) and hear their stories. I have not heard that quote Jim gave us from Grant, but I’m very glad to know it. I’m also motivated to get a cyclometer to keep track of my miles. I have been using the workout app on my iPhone, but that does not tell me which bikes get the miles…

If you use the strava app instead of the workout app, it'll let you attribute miles to the appropriate bike. No need for a cyclometer.  You can even link Strava to Pro Bike Garage(https://www.probikegarage.com/) and get maintenance reminders.

[Caroline Golum]

That Glorius is just that - GLORIUS! I saw an old one pop up on FB marketplace last year and thought about snapping it up JIC...

[Patrick Moore]

Cyclemeter will also let you enter different bikes. Me, I have an elaborate Excel system for tracking mileage registered by Cyclemeter and tabulating it by bike as well as by total for all bikes, and the Excel system even tracks miles separately for different wheels for each bike. (I mean different rear wheels with different gearing systems, Phil fixed, TC, TF, etc, and not front and rear. Joke.) It's nice (I think) to be able to see miles-by-bike-at-a-glance on a big 42" screen, and the Excel interface makes it easy to keep an adjacent maintenance log.

[Jamie Hascall]

Here are a couple of pictures of Betsy with her Glorious in its glory days. Posting these is much more satisfying than the faded glory photo I posted earlier. It took a bit of digging in her archive to find these. 

Winner of "Best Commuter Bike" at Santa Fe bicycle fest

Our pair of Rivs, ready to ride!

[Leah Peterson]

Caroline, I saw your other thread about need a new wheel - ugh! Is there any news about the stem? Did they remove it without damaging the frame? I am so hoping! 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 20, 2023, at 1:30 PM, Jamie Hascall <mr.wa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here are a couple of pictures of Betsy with her Glorious in its glory days. Posting these is much more satisfying than the faded glory photo I posted earlier. It took a bit of digging in her archive to find these. 

<6E3BCDA7-536D-4785-B781-0DA184BA25CB.jpeg>

Winner of "Best Commuter Bike" at Santa Fe bicycle fest

<1F0A66D9-915C-442E-A740-5B0C89854E30.jpeg>

<26FBB81B-57A6-4790-8EB2-FA7402A15A39.jpeg>

Our pair of Rivs, ready to ride!

On Tuesday, June 20, 2023 at 9:52:29 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

Cyclemeter will also let you enter different bikes. Me, I have an elaborate Excel system for tracking mileage registered by Cyclemeter and tabulating it by bike as well as by total for all bikes, and the Excel system even tracks miles separately for different wheels for each bike. (I mean different rear wheels with different gearing systems, Phil fixed, TC, TF, etc, and not front and rear. Joke.) It's nice (I think) to be able to see miles-by-bike-at-a-glance on a big 42" screen, and the Excel interface makes it easy to keep an adjacent maintenance log.

On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 11:48:44 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

What a treat to see Jamie’s pair of old Rivendells (esp that Glorius) and hear their stories. I have not heard that quote Jim gave us from Grant, but I’m very glad to know it. I’m also motivated to get a cyclometer to keep track of my miles. I have been using the workout app on my iPhone, but that does not tell me which bikes get the miles…

If you use the strava app instead of the workout app, it'll let you attribute miles to the appropriate bike. No need for a cyclometer.  You can even link Strava to Pro Bike Garage(https://www.probikegarage.com/) and get maintenance reminders.

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<6E3BCDA7-536D-4785-B781-0DA184BA25CB.jpeg>

<1F0A66D9-915C-442E-A740-5B0C89854E30.jpeg>

<26FBB81B-57A6-4790-8EB2-FA7402A15A39.jpeg>

[Patrick Moore]

Jamie: I'd guess that the baskets were as material in your "best commuter" award as the bicycle; lovely. Can you name and perhaps provide a link to the source?

You are in Santa Fe? I'm in the bosque in Albuquerque. We had a (IIRC) pre-RBW-list NM iBob ride 15 years ago; perhaps there are enough iBobbers and RBW-listers to hold another Riv/Riv-like cyclist get-together.

I tried to attach a very short video from that 2008 ride, but the system kicked it back for being too big. I did wear a Rivendell wool jersey and rode a Rivendellianesque if not Rivendellian 1973 Motobecane Grand Record beater commuter fixed gear.

Patrick "68 now, 53 then" Moore who rode a 67" fixed gear into a howling NM spring Southerly.

[Patrick Moore]

Forgot to add the punch line, as usual, which is that I realized that hanging my 2003 Riv road custom on the wall while I did most of my riding, commuting, on that beater Motobecane, was depriving me of needed fun, so I had local builder Dave Porter convert the Riv into a fixed gear commuter and sold off the Motobecane. The 2003 now-fixed custom saw several years 15-20-mile 1-way commuting duty including bus bike racks, then many grocery errand runs after I started working at home, until it was replaced by a thinner-wall, narrower-gauge tout 531 Chauncey Matthews clone in 2020.

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Eric Norris]

And that Motobecane is still seeing regular service here in NorCal, now as a rendered three-speed. Still a great bike—Patrick didn’t mention the full Reynolds 531 tubeset and the old school Nervex lugs. Combined with classic French geometry, it makes for a very nice ride.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

On Jun 20, 2023, at 11:45 AM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

Forgot to add the punch line, as usual, which is that I realized that hanging my 2003 Riv road custom on the wall while I did most of my riding, commuting, on that beater Motobecane, was depriving me of needed fun, so I had local builder Dave Porter convert the Riv into a fixed gear commuter and sold off the Motobecane. The 2003 now-fixed custom saw several years 15-20-mile 1-way commuting duty including bus bike racks, then many grocery errand runs after I started working at home, until it was replaced by a thinner-wall, narrower-gauge tout 531 Chauncey Matthews clone in 2020.

On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 12:41 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

Jamie: I'd guess that the baskets were as material in your "best commuter" award as the bicycle; lovely. Can you name and perhaps provide a link to the source?

You are in Santa Fe? I'm in the bosque in Albuquerque. We had a (IIRC) pre-RBW-list NM iBob ride 15 years ago; perhaps there are enough iBobbers and RBW-listers to hold another Riv/Riv-like cyclist get-together.

I tried to attach a very short video from that 2008 ride, but the system kicked it back for being too big. I did wear a Rivendell wool jersey and rode a Rivendellianesque if not Rivendellian 1973 Motobecane Grand Record beater commuter fixed gear.

Patrick "68 now, 53 then" Moore who rode a 67" fixed gear into a howling NM spring Southerly.

On Tue, Jun 20, 2023 at 11:29 AM Jamie Hascall <mr.wa...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here are a couple of pictures of Betsy with her Glorious in its glory days. Posting these is much more satisfying than the faded glory photo I posted earlier. It took a bit of digging in her archive to find these. <6E3BCDA7-536D-4785-B781-0DA184BA25CB.jpeg>

Winner of "Best Commuter Bike" at Santa Fe bicycle fest

<1F0A66D9-915C-442E-A740-5B0C89854E30.jpeg><26FBB81B-57A6-4790-8EB2-FA7402A15A39.jpeg>

Our pair of Rivs, ready to ride!

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Jamie Hascall]

Yes Patrick, I remember a particularly windy Spring ride with you and Tarik and a few others on the Bosque trail. We were assaulted by huge tumbleweeds on the way downstream, but on the way back the wind had shifted just enough to be fully behind us and gave us a mighty boost for the  uphill run. That was probably that 2008 ride you tried to post. I do miss a lot about the riding we did in NM but between jobs and a need for a moister climate we ended up back in the PNW. Glad to hear you're still cranking.

Cheers!

Jamie

[Patrick Moore]

Jamie! I'm sorry, I forgot; the name comes back to me now. The photos show your wife and not you -- now I understand. I wish I could post the video, but even that, which does give an indication of the wind's strength, does not show the compact-car-size tumbleweed clusters that we encountered.

I hope the riding in the PNW is as enjoyable as it is here -- at least, here on less windy days.

P

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[Ryan]

Yes indeed. My 50-year old PX-10 is still being ridden  as a single-speed   . Much more than my Rivendells I'm afraid. Might soon be time to release those precious Rivendells

[Patrick Moore]

What are those Rivs, and why do you choose the PX-10 instead of them? What sort of riding?

I love Rivendell, but I'll not allow ideological purity to keep me from choosing other bikes that please me better. Only, the very best bike of all the scores that I've owned over the last 25 years is that 1999 Joe Starck custom, and if I had the money I'd order a custom Legolas except without the Legolas features to make it a as-light-tubed-as-possible gofast derailleur road bike, and perhaps a customized Clem to take 700C X 3" tires.

I liked that Motobecane, but the expensive Riv custom once converted to commuting and errand duties was even more fun for utility riding, and the Chauncey Matthews replacement for that Riv is even more fun for the same purpose.

[lconley]

Ahh, the mysterious pleasures of French frames. I have a 52 year old Gitane Tour de France - with an all Reynolds 531 frame. The French would use the top tube as the seat tube and the seat tube as the top tube from the tubeset resulting in the requirements of oversized brake cable clamps on the top tube (or just longer screws) and front derailleurs that needed smaller clamps for the seat tube. I found Rivendell years ago when looking for French frames. The 58 cm Gitane Tour de France frame weighs 7 lb. 5 oz. with Stronglight headset, Stronglight bottom bracket and fully Weigle Frame Savered - lighter than a 47 cm Roadini. All of the derailleur cable clamps, FD, and shifters are bolt on and the RD hanger is not part of the dropout, so it would make a very clean single speed, but given that it is an only ridden once, NOS bicycle, I haven't been able to bring myself to do it, talk about being precious!

Laing

[lconley]

Forgot the picture:

Laing