Good read on Bikepacking.com

[Max Faingezicht]

I enjoyed the article, it made me wonder if n+1 makes sense or is it just the result of the progression of bike marketing. I don’t know, sometimes Im happy at at N=8, while pondering a bike purchase on FB marketplace or eBay, and sometimes I want to go to N=1 or 2 max and call it a day because I feel the wastefulness of a basement with 6-7 bikes that aren’t ridden often enough.

Also, I found it surprising that Riv and/or Grant weren’t mentioned.

Max

[Steve]

Max - I agree, I thought Nic Morales critique of the current state of the bike industry was spot on, though I was also a bit surprised that he neglected to mention Rivendell.  I don't think he was attempting to cast shade on the notion of N+1 so much as he was the effort of the industry to convince consumers that each category of bike - MTN, road, gravel, ATB, rando, bike packing - is only suitable for its own specialized niche.   

There is no shame in N+1.  If bicycles are your thing and you happen to have the means and inclination to indulge yourself a little bit (mea culpa), then all is good. Collecting a handful or two of bicycles is still much less profligate than owning and maintaining a high end sports car or motorcycle.  -- If you have all three then I'm just plain old jealous and probably hate you ;-)

Steve in AVL

[James McGregor]

I thought it was a good read too, although the comment section was a bit of a dumpster fire as comment sections often are.  I intended to reply to a comment in there and then couldn't be bothered to register to do so - one of the benefits of being into "lower tech" bikes is that the parts just last longer, so there's some sustainability there.

As for stables and N+1, my Hunqapillar does 99.9% of of what I need, whether it's trail or road.  It's just slower on either, and I don't really care.  My only other bikes right now are my father-in-law's restored Motobecane, which i take for an occasional road ride, and the Surly LHT that predated my Hunqapillar (and which I'd ideally like to see be "N-1").

[Richard Rose]

Yes, great read. But, there exists more than one way to interpret & implement N+1. I am down to just two bikes, Clem & Gus. I have little interest in acquiring any additional bikes that might improve my performance in a particular arena. I do however simply lust after any myriad of beautiful bicycles. Bill’s Gallop currently has my attention.:)

Richard, two is all I need but, damn!

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 13, 2025, at 11:42 AM, James McGregor <mcgr...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Ted Durant]

On Tuesday, August 12, 2025 at 9:14:44 PM UTC-5 maxcr wrote:

I enjoyed the article, it made me wonder if n+1 makes sense or is it just the result of the progression of bike marketing.

I also enjoyed it, thanks for sharing.

Interesting that one of the beginning points of his thinking is a comment from the product manager at Ritchey. Of course, Tom Ritchey was a long-time participant in the Jobst Rides, so it's interesting that the author didn't refer to that. 

I don't think it's fair to take that discussion and summarize it with the question, "Has Marketing Ruined Bikes?" The author concludes, correctly IMO, that bikes and bike components broadly are much better today than they've ever been, especially as it relates to riding off road. I think the more appropriate question is, "Has Marketing Made It Less Fun to Just Ride?" The example ride the author describes includes a technical trail that his friend "was navigating with ease on his full suspension bike". So, the author has swallowed the marketing pill that it's important for him to be able to navigate a technical trail with ease? What if you think part of the fun of going for a ride like that is the challenge of navigating a technical trail with difficulty?

This all reminds me that in the last two months I've had two similar-age now-retired casual biker friends tell me that they've been told they need a gravel bike. One of them lives in Vermont (I've told that story elsewhere here) and he, for a variety of reasons, definitely needed (and got himself) a bike better suited to where he wants to ride. The other lives less than a mile from me, rides the same roads I do but has yet to join me on either of the 2 short stretches of gravel that we have within 50 miles of us. He rides a nice Jamis 653 framed bike on 28mm tires and it would do just fine on them. (I desperately want him to put some supple 32mm tires on there, but the LBS just sold him some Conti 5000s.) It's worth noting, though, he's a nervous rider, and would probably not feel confident on the gravel at any kind of speed, even on 32s. Anyway, for both of them the term gravel bike came loaded with it assumptions like disc brakes, tubeless tires, 1x drivetrain, shallow-drop wide-flared handlebars, etc., each of which may or may not be appropriate for the range of their intended uses. 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[Will Boericke]

As a rider of Conti 5Ks, I nominate them for the supple club.  Jarno agrees.

It has been interesting to watch the gravel singularity.  I'm about to head to D2R2, one of the original "gravel" rides.  In the early days, you'd see all sorts of bikes with modifications to run larger tires.  I personally went from a Cannondale CaadX in 2013, graduating to discs a couple years ago in several iterations (Volagi Viaje and now a Seven Mudhoney), but I'll be riding this year on my Lemond Zurich 650 conversion because I can.  I guarantee I'll get several "what the hell is that" comments :).   Thinking about riding my 3 speed Lenton Gran Prix next year.  Pretty sure my fellow Bob Scott will be riding his Mercian KOM.

Will near Boston

[Patrick Moore]

Oh, do post photos in the event! Heck, post photos even absent eventuation!

Close(r) ratio SA IGH or 3 speed freewheel?

On Thu, Aug 14, 2025 at 10:57 AM Will Boericke <wboe...@gmail.com> wrote:

… Thinking about riding my 3 speed Lenton Gran Prix next year. 

[Jason Fuller]

There is an irony, for sure, when it comes to followers of brands who are producing buck-the-trend, set-for-life bikes like Rivendell - we tend to collect them, despite the fact that, by definition, we really only need one. Stooge is another brand that parallels Rivendell in most respects and also has fans who've got several of their frames and always keen to buy the next new release. It's a real 'you can lead a horse to water' situation. I say this with self-awareness that I have five bikes but could easily have two. 

Rivendells are very much "bikes you don't need to think about, for people who think about bikes" 

[Bryan Dalik]

Really good points, Jason. If it were up to me, I'd have a bunch of them, but 2 is truly the best number. I've got a Clem H and a Rambouillet. I'm a sucker for things that are no longer made anymore. In my eyes, I've got one "short" and one "long" bike. I think that's a cool way to experience Rivendell's history and evolution all while sitting in a saddle. I'm not a huge fan of the extra long chainstays, but it is a Rivendell trademark at this point so having one makes sense. And that bike is a Cadillac, a true comfort. If you're only going to have 2, maybe think about short and long.

[Mathias Steiner]

>>  but 2 is truly the best number. 

Two is the minimum number if you do serious commuting. A bike's not a car, so when you go to the garage and your rear tire is flat, or rodents chewed something up, it's great to just grab the "other" bike and not be late.

Three is the minimum number in places where it snows. No way am I putting my good bikes through the slush and the salt.

And a good road bike -- sports tourer preferred for me -- is a necessary addition for people like me who like a light and nimble bicycle.

Aside from playing around and trying different things, there are other reasons for more bikes:
lockup bikes for the bar or the train station;  
"zero bikes" you keep elsewhere[search bikeforums' vintage section for the origin of the term, props to @gugie];

cargo bikes for the car-less;

an Eroica-ready classic, if and when; 

..and bikes you can loan to friends so we can ride together. 

That just happened to me last weekend and it was great to pull two bikes from the hoard, set them up, and still have a couple to choose from for myself.

"Best number" my foot.

Cheers!
 
-Mathias "I can stop anytime I want to" Steiner 
in East Lansing, MI

[Richard Rose]

Mine are long (Clem L 52) and longer (Gus 57). My current thought process is that I own a tigged Riv & a fillet brazed Riv. I “need” a fully lugged one to complete the collection.:)

Who is sitting on a 54.5 Roaduno?

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 15, 2025, at 7:31 AM, Bryan Dalik <bryan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Really good points, Jason. If it were up to me, I'd have a bunch of them, but 2 is truly the best number. I've got a Clem H and a Rambouillet. I'm a sucker for things that are no longer made anymore. In my eyes, I've got one "short" and one "long" bike. I think that's a cool way to experience Rivendell's history and evolution all while sitting in a saddle. I'm not a huge fan of the extra long chainstays, but it is a Rivendell trademark at this point so having one makes sense. And that bike is a Cadillac, a true comfort. If you're only going to have 2, maybe think about short and long.

On Thursday, August 14, 2025 at 11:13:26 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

There is an irony, for sure, when it comes to followers of brands who are producing buck-the-trend, set-for-life bikes like Rivendell - we tend to collect them, despite the fact that, by definition, we really only need one. Stooge is another brand that parallels Rivendell in most respects and also has fans who've got several of their frames and always keen to buy the next new release. It's a real 'you can lead a horse to water' situation. I say this with self-awareness that I have five bikes but could easily have two. 

Rivendells are very much "bikes you don't need to think about, for people who think about bikes" 

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[Bryan Dalik]

Apologies, Mathias - 2 is the perfect nubmer of Rivendells I meant to say. I have 7 total bicycles :). 

[Will Mill]

Thanks for sharing this, Max.  It's always good to be reminded of the reasons that n-1 > n+1.  

The quote, "They typically rode steel, straight top tube bikes, wore natural fibers, and emanated a sense of joy" reminds me of our thread from March 2008 about the tweed dot cc folks (their website is still up!).

Omitting Riv/Grant is a journalistic oversight, but Mr. Morales is 29, so we need to give him time to catch up on the 40-45 Riv Readers that discuss such topics.  Or perhaps he should have known? (He interviewed Will Keating at the Philly Bike Expo and reported on other all-roadish Rivs in 2025).

If I may push back slightly against Mr. Morales's thesis: I *needed* a 2004 62cm Rambouillet and a 2006 62cm Quickbeam, even if they had essentially the same geometry and tires, and even if one of the Ram's 27 gear combinations was identical to the QB's.  Alas, one can only stash so many bikes in apartment building stairwells. 

Will in NYC

[Jay]

Love that quote, Jason.

[PDXJohnny]

Thanks for sharing, that is a great read. Before I had a "gravel" bike I rode gravel all day on 28mm road tires and long reach caliper brakes. My hands hurt and I was generally more sore, but at the end of the day I was just as fast and had the same square metric volumes of fun.

[Garth]

If cycling is your psssion, it doesn't matter how many bike you have. To me it's no different than clothes, each article I own has a purpose for being here. 

Marketing is funny, it seems on one hand you can never have enough, and on the other is the minimalist life sucking vampire energy of guilt for having too much/many, if at all. As one with a vivid imagination, it's easy to get swept away into the abyss of such la-la-land. Sooner or later though I catch on to what's happening. Reality is right where here, right now, and it's alive, vibrant, and ever suprisingly beautiful. It's not for sale and can't be bought, don'tchaknow. There's no shortage of BEING, nor is there such a thing as too much. The grass is green everywhere ! 

When I see a premade bike frame that suits my dimensional standards, and where and how I like to ride, I buy it. Because I'm very precise in those dimensions, there aren't many that qualify, at least prefabricated ones. 

I really do wish I could own another Riv, but as of today none qualify. The Bomba seems a one-off for suitability in Riv terms. I've studied enough of geometry to get the gist of the handling, so one of these dayze my custom from Jack @Franklin frames will get around to making one like it but with my own specified modifications to better suit me. That's what's so great about a custom, every detail is up for negotiation. Especially the paint ! 

[Jason Noonievut]

Gives you all the justification to buy a new bike!  I’m still thinking N-1 as I don’t love the Fargo

Jason

On May 8, 2026, at 10:16 AM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

If cycling is your psssion, it doesn't matter how many bike you have. To me it's no different than clothes, each article I own has a purpose for being here. 

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