Platypus Weight?

[Philip Barrett]

Any ideas what the Platypus frameset will weigh? Yes, I know it's a weight-weenie question & the Riv-Mafia will be all over me for it but I'm just interested. I thought it was mentioned somewhere on their website but I can't find it.

[aeroperf]

I would be interested to find out what ANY of the Riv frame sets weigh.  My only data point is for a 2014 55 Sam, built up with fenders, bell, and rear rack - 30.5 pounds.

[Linda G]

A 50 cm Roadini frame and fork with installed bottom bracket and headset weighs 7 pounds, 12 oz. Subtracting weights for bottom bracket and headset I believe that Rivendell used, found on the internet: 6 pounds, 12.5 oz. Complete bike with no extras except bottle cage: 22 pounds, 9 ozs. This is with Velocity A-23 race wheels, White Industries crank. That's about as heavy a bike as I want to propel and lift around.

Linda

[Bill Lindsay]

Did you buy one and you want to know what it will weigh when you get it?  Or, do you want to know what it weighs as you ponder whether or not to buy one?  Are you planning a minimalist light weight build?  I've contemplated a super light build for a Riv Step Through for many years.  That would be swank!  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[aeroperf]

I can’t imagine someone who wanted a certain Rivendell bike turning it down because another model weighed a pound less.

I’m just interested in what  design choices have what results.  Like the step-throughs.  How does a Platypus (mixte) compare to a Susie (swooping top tube) compare to a Clem L (swooping top tube with brace)?  And how would these compare to a double-diamond of the same approximate fit?  The problem would be finding any way you could compare them directly.

But other than “only a couple of pounds heavier than carbon”, we really don’t hear much about Rivendell weights.

For myself, I love the Sam because of fit and ride.  But I would be interested.

[dougP]

I don't recall Rivendell ever quoting weights, other than a comment that the Atlantis is about a pound more than other frames (this was wayback when they had fewer models).  My 58 cm Atlantis in stock Rivendell build c. 2003 was around 26#.  Like happens to us all, as it's aged it's gained weight.  Heavier rims & tires, racks, dirt, ???.  Last time I weighed it was right at 30 lbs. 

dougP

[Garth]

If I ever get around to opening my Susie box and I can give a rough weight. It's rough because the only scale I have is a 1970's 25 pound "American Family" scale. It's accurate to the 1/2 or 1/4 pound at least. The UPS box is rounded off to 15 pounds though, so if someone has a 59cm. Susie box with packaging they could weigh it and subtract from 15 for an even rougher estimate. My frame inside is plus only the stock headset. 

[Ben Mihovk]

Very interesting discussion! I don't think I care about weight, but I think it's nice to know what you're working with. My MIT 59cm Atlantis is a whopping 39 pounds apparently. That seems WAY heavier than it should be, but I do have a Mark's rack and basket, a flimsy/cheap rear rack, an X-small Sacvkille bag on the saddle with all my flat repair tools/multitool/spare tube, and empty x-small Sackville on the handlebars that I put my phone, keys, wallet in, and I have Atlas rims, shikoro tires, tubes, etc....

I think I could do a lighter setup for fast/fun riding, but since I ride to work as much as I can, the stouter and heavier frame of the Atlantis was needed as I carry at least 10lbs of stuff (weight of market bags that hang on the rear rack + laptop, charger, etc... Maybe someday I'll get a Sam and put nothing but a pair of bottle cages on it. 

Ben in Omaha

[Patrick Moore]

Wow, 40 lb! No matter if the bike is fun to ride. But I regularly carried 35 lb in groceries, and up to 45 lb, on a very light tout 531 early '70s Motobecane racing frame with 11 oz Tubus Fly rack with no problems in the 2 or 3 years that it was my principal grocery and commuting beater -- I was commuting 15-16 miles 1-way across town back then. 67" fixed gear with full fenders and considerable TCO; set up for a while with wonderfully capacious rear panniers constructed from $5, 10 gallon white plastic kitchen trash cans from Target. You do not need a 40 lb bike to carry heavy loads!

[Ben Mihovk]

I think when you factor in my size (6'3" and 225) and the fact that I do carry at least 10 additional pounds (and a lot more when I'm picking up stuff at the store on the way home), the Atlantis made a lot more sense than a Homer or Sam. Riv's website says 220 is a good weight limit for a Sam frame, and if you weight that much you shouldn't load it up with extra stuff. I'm sure a lighter bike would do everything I need to do and more, though. I just wanted to follow what Riv suggests...they know their bikes better than I do. 

I should also add that I weighed my bike by picking it up and standing on the scale I use to weight myself. Probably not the most accurate way to measure, but I doubt it's more than a couple pounds off. 

[Philip Barrett]

This is turning into an interesting discussion, here's my measurements on a Clem Smith L;

Frame = 6.6lbs

Fork = 2.4lbs

Total = 9lbs

With a very typical Riv build kit including dynamo wheel, front & rear Nitto racks and a bell, the total weight comes to 37.2lbs.

On Sunday, March 21, 2021 at 7:19:05 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

You're 50-55 lb heavier than I, but I still think Riv's weight limits are in good part warranty control, and I have no problem with that. That goes double for the official Nitto rack weight limits. 

On the other side of the coin, I have a 60 X 56 (center-to-center, my perfect size with level tt) early '70s Libertas frameset, light 531, waiting for a buildup. F + F + steel Campy headset = 5.9 lb on a digital scale. A similarly-sized Calfee Ruby F+F+hs in tout carbon fibre' was 5.4 lb. Libertas may take 38s; tempted to build it up as an all-rounder fixed gear.

1999 Joe Starck Riv custom 26" wheel gofast custom: 18 lb with heavy-ish Phil hubs and 2 cogs.

I think my blue 58 cm Ram built up with fenders and dyno was ~24 lb.

For contrast, I could not get my M Fargo with dyno and rack over 32 lb.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Anthony Coffin]

Not an answer to the question you are asking, but word from Will is it’s essentially the same tube set as the Appaloosa. I’m guessing that would be a medium duty tube set by Riv standards.

On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 9:11 AM Philip Barrett <philipr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Any ideas what the Platypus frameset will weigh? Yes, I know it's a weight-weenie question & the Riv-Mafia will be all over me for it but I'm just interested. I thought it was mentioned somewhere on their website but I can't find it.

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[Nick Payne]

The Appaloosa I recently put together weighs 15.5Kg (~34lbs) ready to ride. That's everything you see in this photo except for the saddlebag:

Nick

[lconley]

My data points (Park Bicycle Scale):

Rivendell:

Hubbuhubbuh, small - Frame 14 lb 6 oz, Fork 2 lb 11 oz

Roadinin 48cm - Frame, Fork, Headset, BB - 7 lb 9 oz

Custom - Frame 5 lb 13 oz, Fork 1 lb 13 oz (53.4 ST x 63 ETT, all main tubes are 31.8 OD)

1971 Gitane Tour de France, Reynolds 531, 58cm -  Frame, Fork, Headset, BB - 7 lb 4 oz  

Laing

[Philip Barrett]

FYI - those Kenda tires weigh over 5lbs a pair!

[Chris L]

The tube thicknesses Will quoted to me on the Appaloosa were pretty stout.   The down tube and seat tube were 1.1 and 1.2, respectively, at the butted ends and .8 at the other ends.   Top tube was .9 x .7

[aeroperf]

This thread is becoming a very interesting discussion for me.
For 40 years I designed and tested airplanes.  I specialized in aerodynamics/performance, hence: aeroperf.  When a boss would ask what was my greatest challenge, I would have to say “Weight!”.

So Phillip points out that “those Kenda tires weigh over 5lbs a pair.”  That leads me to wonder where my Sam’s 30.5 pounds has come from, especially since Linda G is riding a 22.6 pound Roadini, and all frames seem to be in the 6 - 10 pound range.
And I’m thinking Bill Lindsay has a great idea to try a super light build for a step through.  Where DOES one pick up (or shed) all that extra weight?  And, does it really affect how a Riv rides?

I know tire weight does, because both my wife and myself have commented how riding 810 gram Schwalbe Marathon tires seem to be like going through mud compared to the 505 gram SpeedRides we’re used to.   Plus, my college bicycle team would line a set of wheel rims with lead under the rim tape if they wanted to “challenge” the hill climbers.  But that still appears to be a small contributor to overall bicycle weight.

I really haven’t seen where a pound or two makes a difference on my Sam.  If I add a rear-view mirror, it seems insignificant.  On the other hand, my touring bike, a Soma Saga Disc, weighs only a half pound more than the Sam comparably equipped.  But when I pile on 40 pounds of gear, the Sam chokes while the Saga goes “Meh.”  So there must be a cumulative effect, that only seems insignificant.

Back to the subject.  The Riv web site advertises the Platypus as a “country bike” just like the Sam.  How DO the frame weights compare?

[Joe Bernard]

The first place to go for weight savings you can feel when riding are (in this order) tires, tubes, rims. All that stuff rotating way out there adds up fast. Then ditch racks, fenders, front derailer and its shifter, extra chainrings. That'll getcha down to a base weight that's still ridable and Rivish; beyond this you're looking at weight weenie hubs, bars, stems, seatposts. And that Brooks B17 is out!

Dang, now I want to try this on my custom. Could be pricey! 💸💸💸😳

[Philip Barrett]

@aeroperf - I'm liking the idea of the lightweight step-thru, which returns us to the question regarding the Platypus weight. For reference, the Soma Buena Vista comes in at 7lbs with a fork. My data point is my Trek 330 which is my sort experimental platform bike and comes in at 29lbs with rack, vintage light etc. which just feels about right. How much of that is weight & how much is 531 of course?

[Bill Lindsay]

If you want to build a lightweight step through, you should start with an Ebisu mixte before Iimura-san finally completely retires.  

Gallery of Customer Bikes-Mrs. Shirai's mixte (jitensha.com)

About the Ebisu bicycle (jitensha.com)

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Fullylugged]

continuing the stream of non-platypus data :)...    My 52 cm Ram frame is 4 lbs, 8 oz. The 54 cm Road frame is 4 lbs 1 oz.    Both forks are 1 lb 11 oz.  A waterford steel fork is 1 lb 7 oz.  Frames alone without BB, etc.

[Philip Barrett]

So far, I've only found quality new Mixte's from Rivendell, Soma & Ebisu (which is $2,500 for a frame & fork). The vintage Peugeots appear all the time on local listings & I missed a good one going for $25 two weeks ago which would have certainly been worth the investment if only to experiment with. I know Colnago & Basso both made them, Raleigh had a 531 based model and Motobecane apparently had an upmarket model too. As to the Peugeots & other less esoteric brands I'd expect the frames to be pretty stout & around the 6-7lb range?

On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 10:13:40 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

[Philip Barrett]

...but wait there's more...

Again, still far from the weight-weenie grams obsession, I measured the typical generic ribbed seatpost against a Nitto & found nearly 1/2lb in there! Significant enough to worth considering.

[Jason Fuller]

I am firmly of the opinion that "bike parts will weigh what they'll weigh" and that using weight as a metric for choosing what to buy is a bad idea - however! - I am also firmly of the opinion that unnecessary weight will be to the performance detriment of any bike part, especially frames.  Frames should have the right "spring" for your weight and use, tires should have the most flexible casing you can get away with without too many flats, and even brake calipers should be whittled down so there is no excess inertia to them. 

With that in mind what I would absolutely love to see is a tubing spec of each frame cataloged somewhere. Without extensive experience it's not exactly a science to look at these specs and know ride quality, but IMO weight is just an indirect result of this, more useful, information :) 

[Philip Barrett]

@Jason - Agreed, I think there's weight-obsession BS & then there's sensible reductions easily achieved. As above, if changing tires & a seatpost can save you 5lbs I think that's an easy decision? Switching from Deore to Dura-Ace to save 3ozs, not so much.

[Linda G]

On some parts it's hard to know how light it is possible to go without having problems. The wheels I bought for the Roadini have Velocity Race hubs, which are definitely thinner looking than the 105's on another bike. They must have smaller bearings as well as thinner metal at least in some places. I weigh 130 and don't carry a load, ride mostly on pavement, so I can most likely get away with it, but only experience will tell. I want wheels that don't need maintenance and will last a long time, Frame and seat post I'm pretty sure I could go lighter but light production frames are hard if not impossible to find and the Roadini has a seat post size that is hard to find in lighter models. Tires I had too many flats and had to take the Compass extralights off the back.

Linda

[Nick Payne]

I have a Open Upper, which is weight weenie everything except for two things: the tyres, which are Compass Bon Jon Pass 700x35 (though they are the ultra light casing version), and the saddle, which is a Berthoud Aravis. Complete with pedals and bottle cages, it weighs about 8Kg (17½lbs). It's really a very comfortable bike to ride. It'll take tyres up to 44mm in 700c or 50mm in 650b.

[Joe Bernard]

Ok that's funny on the Riv List. I just happened to check the Crust site the other day - hadn't looked in months - and they have one for sale with ti cranks and rainbow cassette and all kinds of crazy lightness. Not my thing (or price, $8k!!!) but it's cool 😎

Joe "needs a rainbow cassette on his custom" Bernard

[Jason Fuller]

You know it's a light bike when Compass Extralight tires are considered an exception to the otherwise lightweight spec.  It is a cool bike, despite being quite literally the opposite of a Grant bike. 

Question is, how much faster is it vs. a ~24 lb Roadini build to the same fit but with modest parts? Honest ponder, I'm quite curious.  

[Nick Payne]

On Wednesday, 24 March 2021 at 9:36:05 am UTC+11 Jason Fuller wrote:

You know it's a light bike when Compass Extralight tires are considered an exception to the otherwise lightweight spec.  It is a cool bike, despite being quite literally the opposite of a Grant bike. 

Question is, how much faster is it vs. a ~24 lb Roadini build to the same fit but with modest parts? Honest ponder, I'm quite curious.

On flat ground, essentially no difference. On hills, some difference, but unless you're racing, not enough to bother about. This website attempts to quantify things: https://cyclinguphill.com/time-saved-weight-loss-bike/.

Nick

[Anthony Coffin]

Nick, that’s a fantastic build. Now I know roughly what mine will weigh if the wait for inventory is not eternal. What size is your frame? I’m going to be on a 57 and I’m not sure if that’s what you have or the next size up.

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