Crankset/BB question

[Adam]

Hi all,

A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.

I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.

A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and this is my first attempt.

I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm BB. I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?

My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)

Thanks!

Adam

[Bill Lindsay]

Generally speaking, anybody who wants to do new mechanical maneuvers, and has the will to purchase the right tools, by all means go for it.  

To swap out your crank set without swapping the BB, what you need are:

-pedal wrench

-whatever wrench you need for your crank bolts: Long 8mm allen, 14mm socket, maybe both

-crank puller, and maybe an adjustable wrench to drive your crank puller

Assuming you have all the above, absolutely pull your crank off and test fit the VO.  To measure the length of the existing BB a cheap caliper would be useful.  If your existing BB is "too short" your small ring will hit the frame and if you crank down the crank bolt AFTER you've already crashed your ring into the chain stay, then you'll do real damage.  Aside from that, any clearance is enough clearance, but crazy close, like 1mm would be a concern for many.  3mm is ample.  

Once you have clearance, it's up to you to worry about chain line.  In some narrow Q applications the front derailleur throw can be an issue.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Steve]

Adam, good on you for planning to do the crank swap yourself      (you will likely want a crank puller  - https://www.parktool.com/en-us/product/universal-crank-puller-for-square-taper-and-splined-cranks-cwp-7      & here's a link to Park's how to video -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPQyQnNdews).

I'll cast a vote for mounting the new cranks on your existing BB and then checking the fit. You will be looking for two potential issues (1) adequate clearance between the drive side chain stay and the small chainring aa well as the chain itself, and (2) the chainline.   Good luck!   

Steve in Asheville 

[JohnS]

Hello Adam, 

I agree 100% with Bill and Steve's recommendations. A couple things to be aware of, make sure to put some grease on the puller before threading it onto the crank and to tighten with the adjustable wrench, it's possible to damage the crank arm treads otherwise. Second, the FD may need adjusting since the chainrings may not be exactly at the same locations as with the original cranks.

Good luck,

JohnS

[Joe Bernard]

Emphasizing one point Bill mentioned, slide the driveside crank on the spindle SLOWLY and stop before you think a ring may hit the frame. Ask me how I learned this! 😣

Joe Bernard 

[Adam]

Thanks all,

Great. I have the tools, just ordered the park crankpuller from VO with the cranks.

I'll give it a go and see what happens. I think I get the idea from the videos.

I don't have the cranks in hand yet, but once I sort it out, I'll post back, probably with questions about FDs and chainline. Since I haven't shifted my FD since moving to Chicago. . . I could also pull it altogether for a bit. I really miss climbing, but realistically that's a significant train or drive from anywhere I regularly ride, so manual front shifting is not a bad option for that rare occasion.

Best,

Adam

[aeroperf]

Then, if you do need to replace the bottom bracket, you’ll need a tool like this to snug up the new one.

https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-BBT-22-Shimano-Cartridge/dp/B001A0AIAG/?th=1&psc=1

I took my Sam to the LBS to take the old one out.  The guys in Taiwan (or at Rivendell) must have hydraulic hands when they install the bottom bracket.  It was really in there.

[Bill Lindsay]

I enumerated a list of tools, omitting the most critical one.  

Learning any mechanical manuever is a LOT easier with the bike held in a proper mechanic's work stand.  Every single is a LOT harder doing it on the ground or with the bike upside down.  The work stand is the barrier.  There is not a mechanic on earth who would prefer working on a bike without a work stand.  It's possible to get it done, but it's always harder.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:52:24 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

[Shoji Takahashi]

Also, check to make sure there's no crank bolt washer before you put on the crank puller!

good luck,

shoji

Arlington MA

[Andrew MacDonald]

I second the disclaimer to check for washer prior to using crank puller.  

-Andrew

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[Jingy]

Also, if you do end up removing the BB, the drive side is reverse-threaded, so lefty-tighty, righty-loosey.

Jim in Mpls

[Adam]

Thanks for all of the tips.

I appreciate the acknowledgement of the STAND. I do not have one and there's no chance of finding room for one in my apt. Someday that will change . . .

I'm not sure what a crank bolt washer looks like? Maybe I'll know when I see it. I'm assuming it would be under the initial bolt--revealed when I remove that? And I gather that I should be aware that the small ring may hit the chainstays as I'm putting on the new crank? Good to know.

It will be a bit before I get the cranks and have time to work, but I'll post back here with the result. Maybe useful for anyone with a Sam that wants to try a 115mm bb with VO cranks.

Adam

[Joe Bernard]

If the BB spindle you're testing out is too short yes, a chainring with hit the chainstay. If you slide it on and there's no resistance as the ring gets close..STOP. Not gonna work, pull the crank back and prepare to pull that BB and get a longer one in there. 

[RichS]

Adam, you've already gotten plenty of good advice but I'll add this video of Mark at Riv installing a BB. Good on you for doing this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwjnZfNO1DE

Best of luck,

Rich in ATL

[Bikie#4646]

Adam,

Just saying ..... If you like the paint job on your bike, be mindful when applying muscle to the BB remover tool. You'll be using a heavy-ish adjustable wrench. So, adjust it so it's snug. It's pretty easy to have that tool come out and the wrench can chip the vulnerable BB shell paint edge. Ask me how I know.

Paul Germain

Midlothian, Va.

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 1:07:21 PM UTC-5 Adam wrote:

[Bikie#4646]

Adam,

I meant to add that prices on digital micrometers seem to have gone down over time. I replaced my old "analog" PITA micrometer on Amazon for twenty-five bucks. I would not go for the cheapest though. I opted for one with an auto "OFF" setting so you won't burn the battery out when you set it down and forget it.

Paul Germain

Midlothian, Va.

[Kris Burns]

Adam

I have the VO 50.4 bcd cranks on my Saluki and a 118mm bb was actually too short. I had to use a 122.5 and even that was pretty tight.

-Kris

[Adam]

Thanks all for the help.

I got the VO cranks a week or so ago, and today finally had time to install them. The process was smooth, easy so far. No issues with the current BB, which I forgot to measure, but assume is either 113 or 115, based on the previous cranks. I don't think the picture below captures it well, but the 46 ring lines up just inside the middle of the cassette.

I don't think the FD is going to work--it currently rubs the chain in the lower two sprockets on the cassette, BUT if I move it out so that it doesn't rub it hits the crank arm. Not sure the solution there? Do I need a different derailer? I'm assuming so, recommendations? I really may just pull it and go "manual" for now, since the 30 is more wishful thinking than part of regular rides around here.

Any other thoughts?

Adam

[Josiah Anderson]

It's hard to say for sure from the picture, but it looks like your fd is at a bit of an angle, and rotating it to straight might allow a bit more crankarm clearance.

Josiah Anderson

Missoula MT 

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[Garth]

Those VO cranks with the straight arms all suggest a 118mm BB for a road double 43.5mm chainline. FD's with relatively flat/straight cages are made for such tight tolerances that come with straight arm doubles.  Here's a Campy Nuovo Record for example. 

    

[Richard Rose]

I was thinking the very same.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 2, 2024, at 12:16 AM, Josiah Anderson <anderso...@gmail.com> wrote:



It's hard to say for sure from the picture, but it looks like your fd is at a bit of an angle, and rotating it to straight might allow a bit more crankarm clearance.

Josiah Anderson

Missoula MT 

Le ven. 1 mars 2024 à 7:33 PM, Adam <adam....@gmail.com> a écrit :

Thanks all for the help.

I got the VO cranks a week or so ago, and today finally had time to install them. The process was smooth, easy so far. No issues with the current BB, which I forgot to measure, but assume is either 113 or 115, based on the previous cranks. I don't think the picture below captures it well, but the 46 ring lines up just inside the middle of the cassette.

I don't think the FD is going to work--it currently rubs the chain in the lower two sprockets on the cassette, BUT if I move it out so that it doesn't rub it hits the crank arm. Not sure the solution there? Do I need a different derailer? I'm assuming so, recommendations? I really may just pull it and go "manual" for now, since the 30 is more wishful thinking than part of regular rides around here.

Any other thoughts?

Adam

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[Keith Weaver]

I have a Riv Road Standard with VO cranks and a Campy Nuovo Record FD, it works great for me and I like using the vintage part.

Cheers,

Keith

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