New-to-me: 59cm Roadeo

[Bill Lindsay]

I haven't been active on the "Daily post Your Riv" thread, so this seemed kind of out of place.  I've always been a 'roadie' first and foremost.  I've always had a bike in my stable that's a stripped down road bike.  The slot in my stable has always existed, but there's been a bit of flux on which bike fills that slot.  Regardless of the bike that fills my "road bike" slot, in my heart the right bike to permanently occupy that slot is the Roadeo.  For several years I've been filling that slot with placeholder bikes that I consider functionally equivalent, but I've always been confident that a 59cm Roadeo would be mine someday.

Turns out a 59cm Roadeo cam available on I-Bob at a good price and I jumped on it.  I had been so prepared to own a Roadeo that the build came together from parts I already had in stock.  The only new part I bought to do this build was the red Newbaums. 

Frameset: 59cm Roadeo, Chris king red no-threadset

Wheelset: White Industries, HED Belgium, Compass Stampede Pass EL

Drivetrain: Rene Herse 42/26, White Industries Ti BB, Shimano SPD pedals, Dura Ace 10sp RD, CX70 FD, Shimano Barcons, 11-28 cassette, SRAM1091 chain

Components: generic carbon seatpost, Avocet O2 saddle, Soba Noodle bars, Campy Xenon brakelevers ("gutted"), Shimano brakes, Cinelli Sesamo stem, King Cage Ti

PHOTO

I've only had it out on one short ride on it, but this build has been ready in my head for so many years, that it was kind of like "of course it's perfect".  I'm certain I could go do a century on it tomorrow

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Patrick Moore]

Lovely. It makes me want to move the Roadeo up by several notches on my "want one" list. (And I'm glad I'm not the only one on this list with titanium bb spindles; mine are Phils.)

Odd -- to my eyes -- but rather appealing stem.

Please post your impressions after you have more miles on it.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

[John G.]

YES BILL! Glad you like it so far. I love mine, too. Everybody should own a light, steel road bike that can take 32mm tires. I really need to put a Ti BB and Herse crank on mine.

[Bill Lindsay]

Patrick Moore understandably observed:

"Odd -- to my eyes -- but rather appealing stem."

The 1" threadless period in mainstream road bikes lasted for a VERY brief period of time.  During that time, Cinelli and a couple other manufacturers had kind of a freak-out over the industry changing faster than they could keep up.  Cinelli came up with stem models to react to that changing market, and they serve (for me) as a tiny little time capsule.  The Sesamo was the sleek and cool model, and the Alter was the completely gross over the top model. Both are still easily gettable as NOS items.  I bought two NOS Sesamo stems.  This is the first one, and the second will be on another build of mine in a few weeks.  If I ever run a Cinelli Alter, I could only pull it off on an ironic build.  It's too gross for me to run un-ironically.  The Sesamo is super cool, in my opinion, and I like that I'll probably never see another one on the road. 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 3:48:22 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

Lovely. It makes me want to move the Roadeo up by several notches on my "want one" list. (And I'm glad I'm not the only one on this list with titanium bb spindles; mine are Phils.)

Odd -- to my eyes -- but rather appealing stem.

Please post your impressions after you have more miles on it.

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 1:38 PM Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

I haven't been active on the "Daily post Your Riv" thread, so this seemed kind of out of place.  I've always been a 'roadie' first and foremost.  I've always had a bike in my stable that's a stripped down road bike.  The slot in my stable has always existed, but there's been a bit of flux on which bike fills that slot.  Regardless of the bike that fills my "road bike" slot, in my heart the right bike to permanently occupy that slot is the Roadeo.  For several years I've been filling that slot with placeholder bikes that I consider functionally equivalent, but I've always been confident that a 59cm Roadeo would be mine someday.

Turns out a 59cm Roadeo cam available on I-Bob at a good price and I jumped on it.  I had been so prepared to own a Roadeo that the build came together from parts I already had in stock.  The only new part I bought to do this build was the red Newbaums. 

Frameset: 59cm Roadeo, Chris king red no-threadset

Wheelset: White Industries, HED Belgium, Compass Stampede Pass EL

Drivetrain: Rene Herse 42/26, White Industries Ti BB, Shimano SPD pedals, Dura Ace 10sp RD, CX70 FD, Shimano Barcons, 11-28 cassette, SRAM1091 chain

Components: generic carbon seatpost, Avocet O2 saddle, Soba Noodle bars, Campy Xenon brakelevers ("gutted"), Shimano brakes, Cinelli Sesamo stem, King Cage Ti

PHOTO

I've only had it out on one short ride on it, but this build has been ready in my head for so many years, that it was kind of like "of course it's perfect".  I'm certain I could go do a century on it tomorrow

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

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[lambbo]

I know I shouldn't ask, so I won't...but that looks like a pretty light bike.   Fierce but elegant. 

[Bill Lindsay]

Don’t be shy about weight asking. Know that lighter is faster (just a tiny bit faster). Lighter is definitely more interesting. This build weighs in at 20.9 pounds. I just swapped road SPD pedals with another bike to get the free 30grams off the Roadeo.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

[Fullylugged]

Approve

[Jock Dewey]

Beautiful machine, Bill! Nice work.

Grant's designs all ride so so well, and these two, RAM & ROADEO, just rise like cream. Why, oh why, however, doesn't that true road bike, ROADEO, have bosses for DT shifters. A quirky Grantism I guess, they all seem to have one buried in there somewhere.

Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

On Monday, June 3, 2019 at 3:38:41 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:

[Dave Grossman]

I've been waiting for you to get a Roadeo so we can get a full write up and comparison with your old (now for sale) Roadini!

Enjoy and also FULLY APPROVE!

[M G]

Yes indeed, what's the difference between it and the Roadini (longer chainstays on Roadini = change in handling / how?)

[Bill Lindsay]

It is natural for people to think they can isolate out one variable and make some isolated statement about the effect of that variable, in isolation, on the behavior of that system.  In the case of bicycle frame design, I believe that people are wrong about that.  The handling of the Roadini and the Roadeo is the same, because they were designed by a bicycle designer named Grant Petersen to handle the same.  Grant knows better than anyone on this board and a lot better than me that frame design is complex.  It's possible to design a slow handling bike with short chainstays and a fast handling bike with long chainstays.  Anybody who tells you that they know how a bike handles from its chainstay length doesn't know what they are talking about.  The most anybody can say is "I rode Bike X with long chainstays, and it was a dog"  It would be an ignorant leap to then conclude "That Rivendell I've never ridden must be a dog because it has long chainstays".  

The Leo Roadini and the Roadeo are both excellent road bikes that handle the same and are equally comfortable and stable.  The Leo Roadini is more evolved in appearance, and the Roadeo is more traditional and classic in appearance.  More welds and fewer lugs make the Roadini look like it is more welded and less lugged.  The Roadeo has a two tone paint job, and might be close to a full pound lighter.  It is much much harder to get the bars up on the Roadeo.  The Roadeo can't take a light rear rack.  The Roadeo lacks downtube shifter bosses (on mine and almost all the time).  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[M G]

Good point re overall design; i agree; bad phrasing on my part.  I was curious what difference there was, if any.

I suggested a friend get a Roadini (and he did) and we both love how it rides.  Having ridden a bunch of longer chainstay'd Rivs, I do feel they ride differently than my [former] Saluki, and other older Rivs I've had; and different than my wife's Riv mixte, which is likewise an older one.  Though the mixte has some of the feel of the newer bikes.

The tandem we have likewise has that feeling of tracking, yet quick to turn that the Roadini has - and yeah, it's oversimplification to attribute it to that one more obvious thing.  I picked up a BMC road frame as a stop-gap when the bike i ride the most needed a frame repair (i moved the parts over from it), and while i love how the BMC rides, the Roadini kinda got me thinking that would have been a good choice.

 Further up [Bill] yr description of the BMC is good; it's a quick, comfortable, well handling ride; my friends Roadini feels the same, ie quick and comfortable BUT - there is a singularity to it's handling that is obvious and great.  It feels smoother, and turning is different (and no, not 'planing')

[Bill Lindsay]

"Having ridden a bunch of longer chainstay'd Rivs, I do feel they ride differently than my [former] Saluki, and other older Rivs I've had"

This is something to which I can't relate.  I can't do a comparison of handling between a bike I'm riding today vs. a bike I rode years ago.  I must not have the refined sensibilities or body memory to be capable of such a thing.  It must be a common ability because a lot of people on these boards seem able to do it: providing detailed and nuanced ride reports on bikes they rode years or even decades previously.  I can't do that.  Maybe people take notes in a bike diary?  Like wine people or whisky people? 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[M G]

Could be. You 'can't relate'.  Like you, i've had lots of bikes; the memorable ones, i do remember quite well; whether or not that's 'refined sensibility' I dunno; and whether it's actual or just speculative; likewise, it don't matter - eventually we're all food for worms, so whatever works, works. Until then, as much time on the bike as possible, whether or not well remembered.

[Patrick Moore]

I have very distinct memories of the "feel" of certain bikes owned 10 or more years ago; heck, even close to 30 years ago. That is, certain qualities stood out when I rode them, and I remember those qualities now. The memories do not at all make up a complete "handling evaluation;" my point is that things stuck out and that I remember them today.

Example: The Fuji Royale "12 Speed" (that was written on the right chain stay) from circa 1997-8. I don't recall how it handled unladen, except that it handled badly with an old Carradice Boxy Bag on a Nitto bar holder with ~6 lb in a gusty crosswind, but I do recall that the handling distinctly "mellowed" or became more docile with ~29 lb in rear panniers.

The 1991 Specialized Stumpjumper team bought 1991, no suspension: I noticed the "neutral" quality of the handling compared to the 3 other mountain bikes I'd owned and extensively ridden; and compared to the Performance Ti mtb that replaced it -- silly, bought it because it was "ti" and "lite".

The 1958 Rene Herse, bought ~ 2010 that fit just right with a simple adjustment of saddle height (60 X 56.5 or so c-c): The fit was magnificent; for some reason the bike made me want to choose a 1-tooth smaller cog. All that was very nice, But it didn't feel as nimble or as planted (both) as my Rivs; one reason I sold this other wise very nice bike.

1989 Falcon bought 1990: I recall the disastrous handling when I built this bike, with long stays and very short front center, with hugely front-biased position: Flite all the way forward on rails (it would slip downward on the Logic post until blue Loctite), and 140 mm stem. I guess it would have been very nice had Grant set it up: bar up and back, saddle back and down.

1973 Motobecane bought ~ 2006: very light frameset compared to my Rivs, and one of the best rear load carriers I've owned; odd; Tubus Fly, though; stable under 35 lb in rear panniers; but somehow muted in its willingness to go forward. I'd say the tires, IRC Tandems, 28s, but the same tires on the Herse felt fast.

Oh, and the ancient Raleigh Technium sports tourer bought ~ 2003: heavy, flexy, muted in changing direction (but not sluggish; just mellow); but oh so mellow-ly soft with 32 mm Vittorias.

Early '90s Diamond back Axis Team bought ~ 2002, set up with 64" fixed gear, 60 mm Big Apples, and Noodles: another very mellow and sweetly stable bike (those are engineering terms), and a bb high enough with 60s that I could pedal nicely around corners.

Etc. And I don't have the patience for the detailed analysis of handling and build characteristics that contribute to this or that handling quality. But I certainly recall distinct "feels" of bikes.

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[Bill Lindsay]

I’m also one of those people who believes that bike reviews reveal much more about the reviewer than the bicycle. For what it’s worth

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca.

[Paul G]

Roadeos don't have DT shifter bosses for two reasons. Firstly, the Roadeo was designed to be as light as possible and still meet Grant's requirements for strength and durability (I guess cable stop braze ons are lighter than DT shifter bosses) and, secondly, since the bike is an alternative to Modern Carbon fiber Road Bikes, it was presumed that most buyers would use integrated brake/shifters. Or bar end shifters.

I, like you, wasn't satisfied with that so I ordered mine with DT shifter bosses which was a $50 add on. Since Roadeos are built to order, there's opportunity to do this sort of thing. I also had a chain hanger peg added to the right chain stay (an additional $50) to keep the chain under tension when the rear wheel is removed. That comes in handy when putting the bike in the car with the wheels off.

I bet fork eyelet braze ons for a front rack wouldn't be out of the question either. Indeed, there was a Roadeo shown on the BLUG in the past with such braze ons.

Paul

[Patrick Moore]

Roadeos don't have DT shifter bosses for two reasons. Firstly, the Roadeo was designed to be as light as possible and still meet Grant's requirements for strength and durability (I guess cable stop braze ons are lighter than DT shifter bosses)

I expect that the reason is rather that cable stop braze ons are more aerodynamic, right?

Kidding of course. But Grant being Grant, I doubt weight was the reason. But I have no idea what it was, unless it was simply taking for granted that only 1.037 owners out of 1,000,000 (approx.) use dt shifters nowadays.

But: it is good to know that they can be ordered, along with a chain hangar. I've had these added to both my remaining Riv Road customs. (Mine are little "L"-shaped hooks, since these bikes are fixed gears without derailleurs: the hook slots through a link to hold the chain off the ambient sand when removing the wheel.

Patrick Moore, wondering about a Roadeo himself, in ABQ, NM

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[Bill Lindsay]

Several years ago, I gave Will and Roman a fierce but sincere justification why the Roadeo should have DT shifter bosses.  The main response was that the Roadeo was basically Mark's baby with respect to those braze on details, and Mark is a huge fan of in-line cable adjusters. 

A year or so later, Roman told me that the forthcoming Leo Roadini was going to come with DT shifter bosses and that my 'vote' had been the tie-breaker.  I don't know if it's true or not, but I do like to claim that I'm responsible for the Leo having DT shifter bosses. 

Bill "influencer-puppet-master" Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[ted]

Way to go Bill, and thank you very much.
I was really glad when I saw the Roadinis were going to have dt bosses and my wife’s Roadini has dt shifters. I’ve got dt shifters on my drop bar AHH, and Im using a dt front shifter on my bulmoose bar Bombadil.
Guess I’m that 1.037 in 1,000,000 user.
The way I look at it you can always use the dt cable stop adapters to get in line cable adjusters for brifters or bar ends, but you can’t put dt shifters on cable stops.
DT shifter bosses rule.

[Brian Campbell]

I ordered the final Legolas and got mine with downtube shifter bosses, front and rear rack mounts (for light loads), rear canti cable stop and brazed on fender mounts at the bridge and chainstays. I am not sure they will ever get used since it is meant to be my light road bike but I like to have options for the future. It was delivered to the painter this week. It will be the same color as the Rivendell Redwood but with cream accents. Looking forward to it.

[Paul G]

Funny thing is that I've had down tube shifters on my Roadeo for a total of maybe one month over the nearly six years I've had it. I'm not really getting my money's worth on those DT shifter bosses! But at least I have the option if inspiration strikes again. 😊

I'm glad the Roadeo is still available period. It's somewhat surprising to me considering the Roadini...

Paul

[Mark Schneider]

Lovely bike and build, I've long regretted not getting one instead of the non riv custom I ordered. 

I'm sure you'll love it, look forward to your excellent ride reports.

Mark

[Bill Lindsay]

I went out on a "Coach Bill" triathlon on the Roadeo yesterday. 

Stage 1, the Bike stage:  I went out and did an extended rendition of the East Bay classic road route "the Three Bears".  The Roadeo was as splendid as any road bike should ever be.  It climbed great, it descended as steadily and as fast as any Rivendell.  It's a tremendous road bike.  ~45 miles, ~4500 feet.  It's terrific, even though I'm terribly out of condition

Stage 2, rescue:  I ran across a pair of French cyclists, caught off-guard by the heat, who were taking things slowly to get back to Orinda and Bart.  They had run out of water, so I gave them all the water from my second bottle and a pep-talk that they were almost there.  They were very grateful and encouraged and urged me to ride on

Stage 3, emergency:  One of my High School Mountain Bike Racers was off to Tahoe, but broke a hydraulic brake hose.  I did a quick repair to allow him to enjoy the first day off of school and the first day of Summer Vacation.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA