Cantilever brake recommendations

[Joel Stern]

I don’t think I need to go with V brakes (smack me if I am wrong), and I an unwilling to buy Paul’s due to price.  I got a recommendation on Velo orange grand cru at $145 a set.  

Ant thoughts on what to use on an Appaloosa  or Atlantis? 

If I use cantis I have a nice NOS set of Suntour levers, with V’s I start from scratch.

Thanks 

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

If you're using a nice NOS set of Suntour levers, my bag-matching instinct would be to suggest a set of Suntour cantilevers, like maybe a set of XC Pro. If you're not in a hurry, you can probably get a nice set for <$100 on eBay.

However, practically speaking, with the biggest crux about cantilever brakes being proper adjustment, older cantilever brakes often use the smooth post brake pads that are inconvenient to adjust properly. The newer cantilever brakes that use V-brake style threaded post brake pads are much easier to adjust for toe and position. In addition, I'll also look for low-profile brake arms, as the wider profile ones can interfere with panniers and other things. The VO Gran Cru will fit these requirements, but if you desire something more budget-friendly, Tektro's CR710 is about 1/3 the price of the VO (which themselves are almost half that of Paul brakes).

Finally, if you're not going to use fenders, and are ambivalent about putting those Suntour levers into service, V-brakes are probably the easiest to set up and use. Especially on the front, saving that headset brake hanger for that cleaner look, and entirely mitigating brake judder are worthwhile advantages.

[Ginz]

Shimano cx-50.

[Garth]

Yeah, if you can some XC Pro cantilevers by all means do. They open ALL the way, as in past the frame. If a Kool-Stop pad gets in the way of the front, chop off the rear @ the rear notch. You'll know how far you can go as there is an internal metal frame in the pad. File it off smooth.  I love smooth post cantis because they are so adjustable.  I do love any canti that places the pad in front of the arm, not behind as many models of lat seem to do, except the Shimano Alivio CT-91 and Dia Compe 988. Tektro's 710/720 look great until you install them and find where the pad holders bolt is ends up hitting the frame, limiting the amount of space you have to remove the tire. Really stupid beyond words. I ended up using other brakes. I even prefer regular road size pads, not those elongated things, and ones that are centered over the post, like the Sun Tour canti's came with and Dia Compe uses on the 988 canti, which is remarkably similar to the XC Pro and it's currently made. The silver and black version use their Salmon colored OPC12 pad, it's regular road sized and centered.

For the front with my XC Pro's I use a fork mounted Origin8 brake cable hanger so you can run a cable directly to it. Those two in combo is superb, truly superb... it just couldn't be any better !

I also only use a regular free floating cable hanger guide. I abhor the fixing the cable as Tektro and Shimano "suggest". I see their intention, but again, it's utterly dumb in the real world where having the straddle cable run free allows for instant centering of the brake at any time with the slightest of touch.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it !  Hah ! 

-Garth !

[John Bokman]

Shimano CX-70 (no longer in production) are the best I've used for stopping power, modulation, and feel. I believe the CX-50 is the same functional brake, and is a bargain, in my estimation. If you want to spend even less, I would go with the Tektro CR 710.

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 9:14:06 AM UTC-7, Ginz wrote:

Shimano cx-50.

[S]

+1 on Shimano CX-50. No complaints. That said, I prefer V-brakes. More powerful and easier to set up. Some people complain about a lack of modulation with V-brakes, but I think there is enough once you get used to them -- just requires a lighter touch.

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 9:14:06 AM UTC-7 Ginz wrote:

Shimano cx-50.

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Benz, good info.  

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/0gky7l0ogag/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/044ed92b-a231-4536-8baf-817ecc1acfc8o%40googlegroups.com.

--

~IMPORTANT~ Note to all~~ EMAIL ETIQUETTE
If you forward this email, please highlight and delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address and maybe others. It is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all over the world. Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from obtaining addresses, prevents viruses from being propagated, and limits the proliferation of spam. Also, please use the “BCC” area instead of “TO” and “CC” when forwarding to several people at once.
~~Thank you~~

[Joel Stern]

Garth, thanks for so much good info

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/0gky7l0ogag/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4cf4e4d7-b0e8-49a2-9ba8-5bfc546286b4o%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

Thanks a John.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/0gky7l0ogag/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/39fee70d-8bb7-4beb-8317-3d47ba323ba5o%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

Ginz, I did not watch auto correct. 

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 12:14 PM Ginz <the...@gmail.com> wrote:

Shimano cx-50.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/0gky7l0ogag/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6c6c539a-18a4-415d-958c-ce69b49a06a0o%40googlegroups.com.

[Joel Stern]

Thanks

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 9:35:41 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:

Yeah, if you can some XC Pro cantilevers by all means do. They open ALL the way, as in past the frame. If a Kool-Stop pad gets in the way of the front, chop off the rear @ the rear notch. You'll know how far you can go as there is an internal metal frame in the pad. File it off smooth.  I love smooth post cantis because they are so adjustable.  I do love any canti that places the pad in front of the arm, not behind as many models of lat seem to do, except the Shimano Alivio CT-91 and Dia Compe 988. Tektro's 710/720 look great until you install them and find where the pad holders bolt is ends up hitting the frame, limiting the amount of space you have to remove the tire. Really stupid beyond words. I ended up using other brakes. I even prefer regular road size pads, not those elongated things, and ones that are centered over the post, like the Sun Tour canti's came with and Dia Compe uses on the 988 canti, which is remarkably similar to the XC Pro and it's currently made. The silver and black version use their Salmon colored OPC12 pad, it's regular road sized and centered.

Garth, design is all about compromises. The brakes that place the pad arms "behind" the brake arm will be stiffer overall, since the contact points between pad and rim are closer to the base of the brake studs, so there's less bending moment around the brake studs. Depending on your particular application, this may or may not be moot. As for the clearance issue, one can use Koolstop's "Thinline" pads to minimize the space taken up by the pads, to facilitate wheel removal. Or if one does not insist on using pad holders with refillable pads (that are directional), one can simply flip the pad 180° around, so the "rear" points forward. Yes, it'll look a bit weird, but it works and you only have to do it for the front. Alternatively, one can also use so-called "Cross" pads, which are essentially road-size pads, attached to V-brake type threaded posts.

Finally, a lot of brakes that use smooth post brake pads tend to utilize semi-conical washers for adjustment*. Those tend to deform and take a set, making subsequent adjustment difficult. And the act of balancing at least 3 degrees of freedom while tightening a 10mm nut is a job best left for the experienced mechanic (at least if you want to do it in a timely manner). With brakes that use V-brake type threaded posts, adjustment is as simple as actuated the brake lever to secure the pads onto the rim, shimming the leading pad edge with a penny (for toe), and tightening the 5mm hexnut.

* Exceptions include Avid's Tri-Align, and the Onza HO.

[ascpgh]

These: https://www.ebay.com/itm/254619161809

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[ascpgh]

Scratch that eBay listing unless you're up for some hardware sourcing.

Complete is better (If you can tolerate shipping): https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suntour-XC-Pro-cantilever-brakes-NOS-New-Old-Stock-front-and-rear-set/254625088832?hash=item3b48d68540:g:xpUAAOSwW5Je5dPn

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Philip Williamson]

I like CX50s for clarity of setup. They work well, and they look okay. They are pretty cheap, compared to those Suntour XCs. Once you’re talking $180 brake sets, you may as well pay $260 for Paul Minimotos. Easy setup, extremely awesome stopping power, and no brake judder.

Philip
Santa Rosa,CA

[exliontamer]

I've had the same Tektro 720s on my Atlantis for years. I use the super thin red Kool Stop pads. They've worked through everything and the thin pads allow you to clear big tires easily. They're relatively affordable and the silver looks classy on the Atlantis. 

[Max S]

On the eBay, even the old Alivio / STX / LX low profile cantis work great and can be had cheap cheap cheap. With the right set of tools and instructions (e.g. an Allen key, a 10mm box wrench, a rubber band for toe-in, and maybe a 3-rd hand tool), set up can be systematic and trouble-free. Using the “cross” pads in posted holders means you can simply slide new pads in as they wear.

Of the newer choices, Tektro 720 are fine, Shimano CX-50 are good, too. TRP or Avid Ultimate Shorty have their followers and are not quite as pricey as Paul.

I do like the direct wiring and super simple set up of V / mini-V brakes more than all this extra stuff of cable stops and straddle wires, but choice of suitable drop bar brake levers can be quite limited.

- Max “they all work, might as well try and see what you like” in A2

[Mark Roland]

I guess my approach toward cantilever brakes is similar to my approach to shifting a bicycle (which, Riv content, is similar to Grant's). After being a race/go fast roadie who rode with plug and play side pulls for many years, I started riding bikes with cantilever brakes. Setting them up for good performance takes a bit of skill and experience--a bit more than learning to shift, but similar idea; side pulls are to cantis as indexing is to friction. And sure, most v-brakes are easier to set up, and work great. But cantilevers have a certain aesthetic, they work great too, allow for fenders over fatties.

I'm always a bit surprised when I pick up an old vintage mountain bike how well the original canti brakes work, even with old pads and cables. I prefer the wide profile for the look and less need to worry about exact straddle cable height for performance. Most of my experience is with classic vintage Mafac, Dia Compe, and Shimano. I have also set up Tektro 720 and like those, too.  Have a set of CX-70 in the parts box slated for an upcoming build, though I may try a set of v-brakes for my upcoming Susie, since no fenders planned, and for a change of pace!

Bottom line, the increasingly esoteric skill of calibrating cantilever brakes is one that I enjoy. Sometimes. YMMV.

[Steven Sweedler]

Mark, nice to see the picture of Shimano BR MC-70 brakes, (last picture) these don’t seem to get much love her on the list. I have used them exclusively for several years and am still satisfied with them.  Steve

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a78235d5-80da-4830-9fe8-61ce56d70553o%40googlegroups.com.

--

Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

[Joel Stern]

Yeah, I’m not going to spend that kind of money, will look at affordable good quality as you state.  

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/0gky7l0ogag/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/629c620a-adda-4960-baff-e86a9a5781a2o%40googlegroups.com.

[Jason Fuller]

I have Tektro 720s on my Hillborne and they're okay. Their power is fine and their price is hard to beat, but they have limited adjustability.  IRD Cafam are a nice brake with Paul-like adjustability (great!) but for their price you're too close to Paul pricing to not make the jump, IMO. 

As mentioned, old Shimano canti's work surprisingly well. Paired with good pads, you could just get an old set from a local community bike shop for a couple dollars and be done! 

[Clayton Scott]

I really like the Campagnolo cantis from a few years ago (made by Tektro I believe). They are no longer made but come up occasionally. I have 2 pairs and got both for around $80 dollars a while back. Here is what they look like: https://www.evanscycles.com/campagnolo-cx-cantilever-brakes-EV153864

Besides them, most Shimano cantis I tried have been good.

If you believe that "harder is better" I recommend some Empella froglegs. They allow you to waste and exorbitant amount of time and still likely won't stop your bike. 

Clayton Scott

HBG, CA

On Thursday, July 16, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Joel Stern wrote:

[Ash]

When I built my Appaloosa I went through a few cantis over 12-14 months before setting with v-brakes.  I have not tried CX 50/70, but VO Gran Cru and Avid Shorty Ultimate were very good.  I do remember that with Grand Cru I was able to remove front wheel without deflating (2" tires)

Of late I've been experimenting with using a modulator for the front v-brake. I'm liking what it does.  Will@Riv had suggested a good combo would be canti for the front and v-brake for the rear.  I might build the Susie that way.

[Brady Smith]

I was sort of surprised upon buying my BMC monster cross that Mike Varley specs Tektro Oryxs, but honestly I’ve had good experiences with them. On my dad bike/commuter (a heavily customized Jamis Aurora), I have the Oryxs with Kool Stop dual compound pads and I’ve had no problem stopping down steep grades with 40 pounds of stuff in the rain. I’ve since upgraded my Monster Cross to Dia Compe 980s (mostly aesthetic reasons), but for a bike that I ride hard year round regardless of weather, the Oryxs are a good value.

[Eric G@rs]

Hey Joel,

I have a pair of CX50s that you can have if you pay the shipping. They’re in great shape, no issues. Let me know if you want them.

Eric
SF

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Eric.  I’ll send a private message.  

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/0gky7l0ogag/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/668701ce-334e-45e3-8d4a-6407f4f9e34bo%40googlegroups.com.