Charlie H Gallop!

[John G.]

The September email update teases a new bike: the Charlie H Gallop. PREDICTIONS! GO!

Mine: MIT lugged road-ish bike with Cantis. 650B even at the largest size. Level top tube, but fewer size options.

[Matt D]

Really hope it's a less-lugged canti-Sam personally. I'd put a deposit down for one tomorrow if they told me it fit 35s with fenders and came in 62cm and orange.

[S]

I hope it's something like that -- classic geo, cantis.

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Single speed Appaloosa-like lugged frame.

[Drw]

I’d be excited about anything not redundant with other frames. Another Sam/Hilsen, Atlantis/appa hunq/Gus would feel ..... rutty... since we have 2+ models covering already overlapped zones.

A lugged canti mixte, mini velo, budget Legolas, budget quickbeam would all perk me up.

[Erik Wright]

My guess is that it’s the revamped Hunq that was chattered about a bit on an email or Blug.

Erik, Philly

[Wally Estrella]

Ooooh, I like that idea!

On Thursday, September 12, 2019 at 12:37:05 AM UTC-4, Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:

Single speed Appaloosa-like lugged frame.

[masmojo]

I am even more clueless then usual!? Obviously not a hilly bike; that's already carved out. Probably not a nice Mixte, since Grant effectively all but killed the prospect (sadly).
That said, short of a cargo bike what could it possibly be? IDK?
I expect to be disappointed, but I hope not! I was saving my shekels for the new fancy Mixte and that's really the only Rivendell I feel I need.
Lately, I've been buying Crusts & while I don't consider Crust to be a Rivendell replacement; my Bombora is bloody brilliant & I just ordered the new Scapegoat yesterday!
As someone else said if the new bike is a rehash of something else; I guess it's still fine, but I probably won't feel compelled to buy one. I am WAY out of N +1 range now, so any new thing has to replace/be an improvement on something else. Super mixte was going to be the last piece of the puzzle for me. Now what?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Masmojo, do we know for SURE that the mixte isn’t happening? I am with you - I had my heart set on it. It looks like the lug has the cutout of a hummingbird - and nothing warms the heart of Leah Peterson like a hummingbird. I figured he could make the mixte in a jewel-tone, like hummingbirds are, and make it a wispy, light-weight lovely super mixte and all would be well with us.

I have had my heart set on that mixte.

I do like the head badge and even the name of the Gallup bike. Sounds cool but not like a mixte.

[masmojo]

Says"we WERE going to make"; "it WAS gonna be over the top "

Apparently after rereading it the fault is falling with the aforementioned lug maker going out of business. 😕
Progress!
Me thinks this could seriously hamper customs as well; probably explains the recent price jump.

[Robert Hakim]

The first Riv E-Bike! :-)

Robert Hakim

SLC, UT

[Steve Palincsar]

Nah - my friend Tom has a blue Allrounder he's electrified by adding a wheel with an electric motor.

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Joe Bernard]

Hehe, that's exactly what I'm about to do. I just bought a blue All Rounder and I'm putting a Copenhagen Wheel on it. Plus I've electrified two Clems, one Appaloosa and a Cheviot 👍

[Joe Bernard]

I'd love to see them do it, though (yes I know it'll never happen), Sycip has been building some sweet steel frames for the Shimano STePS mid-drive kit. The long wheelbase, big tubes and uprightish design of recent Rivs is a perfect match for a not-overly-powerful integrated system. They'd sell.

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

How 'bout an e-Hunq?. A member here bought my damaged Hunqapillar last year, did some rehab and electrified it. 

[Mark Roland]

Well, a gallop is not a trot or a canter. I suspect something built with speed in mind, Mongolian style.

[S]

I am not sure how much you can read into the name, but it implies a bike that is fast and light. Maybe a single speed, although the market for those seems to be shrinking. I could be wrong about that. Safe to say it will not be a straight-up road bike, as the Roadini sold relatively slowly.

[Mark Roland]

Is this a Gallop Poll?

Tigged bike designed around the Tektro 559, so you can switch from 700c to 650B

It will have 60 to 80cm chainstays. Mid tail.

It will be designed for handlebars, but not suspension. It will not have disc brakes. Some people will wish it did.

It will be offered in two colors, and be super compatible with most current and past basket designs.

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 8:18:23 PM UTC-4, John G. wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

It's a Mystery Bike.

[Austin B.]

What's in a name?

Charlie Hustle is a nickname for Pete Rose

Gallop is something a horse does

I'll put my 2 cents in for a mostly tigged, cheaper roadish country bike to replace the Appaloosa and Sam. Modern Riv geo with long chainstays, sloping TT. 

Would they include centerpull brake mounts for 700c road wheels and canti's for 650b offroad wheels on the same bike? Has anyone ever done that?

Austin

[S]

As much as I would love for the bike to be fully lugged and have a level TT, I think you are right that it will most likely have modern Riv geo and fewer lugs. So yeah, maybe a more roadish version of the Clem, the latter of which Grant says he thinks of as a mountain bike. A new Hunq would be fun, but that would make for a lot of frames in the mountain bike category.

[masmojo]

I've got an E-bike & seeing as the whole bike cost about the same as my Clementine; there's hardly reason enough to buy a Rivendell and electrify it; cheaper just to buy a complete Ebike. It will work better then a converted bike as well.

[Joe Bernard]

I do not agree that a factory ebike works better, it's just a cleaner build. I've converted a few Rivs and having the benefit of a great bike to start with was a big plus, in my opinion. I'll have pics of an All Rounder with Copenhagen Wheel for you folks to admire/be appalled at in a couple weeks.

[EasyRider]

Cyclocross bike, with a Legolas/Quickbeam/Rosco Road geometry.

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 8:18:23 PM UTC-4, John G. wrote:

[Andrew Turner]

I would also love if it was a dedicated 650b frameset. Perhaps even a direct mount centerbrake design! 

[Mark Roland]

Might as well go for low trail and a skinny thin top tube while you're at it !;^)

[Joe Bernard]

Clem Cargobike 👍

[Rob Kristoff]

Wasn't the Roadini meant to be the road version of a Clem?

[Bill Lindsay]

Rob Kristoff asked:

Wasn't the Roadini meant to be the road version of a Clem?

Yes, it was meant to be the road version of a Clem and it successfully was that, in my opinion and experience. I think Rivendell miscalculated what many people want. Many people want a cheap racing bike. The Roadini was a smart civilized affordable road bike. Many people want to buy a bike that looks like a racing bike, and those people in general didn't think the Leo Roadini looked enough like a bike intended for racing. Who cares if it is just as fast and more comfortable? The roadies on my club ride make fun of it because it looks weird.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[masmojo]

Not to get too far OT, Joe I hear what you are saying, but it goes beyond cleaness of the build. Love my Clementine, but if I was to attach the 750watt motor off my Rad Power, no doubt it would be too much! Other things just make it impossible to consider a conversion over a dedicated Ebike. When regularly hauling me down from 20 to 25 mph, especially with the extra heft of the motor & battery, the disk brakes are indispensable. Integrated head, tail & brake lights. Cadence sensors, regenerative braking, etc. All contribute to the overall experience and safety.
I seriously considered getting a conversion for my Clementine, but when you consider what you get for less than $2k with Rad Power, it's hard to justify doing anything else.

[Joe Bernard]

Well I'm not arguing which is most cost effective. You said a dedicated ebike "will work better" and that very much depends on what each rider needs from an ebike. Also, I said I disagree with your opinion, which doesn't make either of us right, we just have different views on the priorities of an ebike. I've owned dedicated and kitted bikes and my preference is for the bike I like first, then figure out what kit will work.

On the other hand, that new Rad Power with the 20-inch wheels and a cargo holder in the middle of the frame is nifty!

[Ray Shine]

Yes, I agree. Large selection these days, as well.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2019, at 8:08 AM, masmojo <mas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> I've got an E-bike & seeing as the whole bike cost about the same as my Clementine; there's hardly reason enough to buy a Rivendell and electrify it; cheaper just to buy a complete Ebike. It will work better then a converted bike as well.
>

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[Mark Roland]

I agree with Grant here that any object with a 750-watt motor is not a bike, even with an "e" in the front. I'm not making a judgement about their merits, just saying they are more related to scooters, mopeds and small motorcycles than to two-wheeled human-powered vehicles, aka bikes or bicycles. I think the taxonomy is important. But I concede that the battle was over before it began. Carry on.

[John G.]

Yeah, I was disheartened to hear that the Roadini didn't sell very well. I think everyone should have zippy but comfy 32mm tire road bike in their stable, and the Roadini seems to fit the bill. I wonder if people talked themselves out of buying because of the sloping top tube or the perceived stoutness of the tubing. I can't fault anyone for preferring different aesthetics--after all, that's one of things that drove my to Rivendell. But it's too bad when aesthetic preferences get in the way of a great, affordable bike.

I do hope they take another crack at a "more affordable than a Roadeo" road bike in the future. I love my Roadeo, but I understand the price puts it out of reach for some.

[Joe Bernard]

I think Roadini was too close to other Rivs with more tire clearance and stronger canti/v-brakes. If you were looking at one it was hard not to just go with a Clem or one of the fully lugged bikes instead. A true TIG-ed Roadeo (read: level toptube, thin tubing) clone would sell better, IMO.

[Mark Roland]

I think at this point the Rivendell design tenets have such a strong gravitational pull that many of the models have more similarities than differences. I see the Roadini more as a sportier, tigged version of the AHH, with seat and head tube angles ever so slightly steeper, chainstays ever so slightly shorter, and less max tire size. It's still very much in what used to be called the "sports" geometry of late 70s early 890s UJBs.

It's a highly practical, comfortable, speedy road bike. But with the DNA from so many sources, maybe it came off too much like a mutt to the bicycle buying public, not a distinct breed that could be easily labeled, like country bike, or hillibike, or allroad or gravel. "Like a 70s sports tourer but maybe with wider tires and tigged" is a tough category.

It's still possible that the Gallop will break out of this gravitational force. I was a little surprised when it was announced that the Gus Boots would be offered in a version with lighter tubing. So maybe a new strain has been introduced, or awakened.

[Mark Roland]

Just to be clear about what I wrote, I don't consider the fact that some Riv models have overlapping designs to be a drawback. Not at all. But it can pose challenges in terms of marketing.

[masmojo]

Mark, I would be inclined to agree that the ebike has a lot in common with a scooter, moped, et. Al., and riding one initially will only encourage that notion, but prolonged exposure reinforces it's bicycleness.

My take on the whole thing now with 800 miles on mine is that (for me anyway) it's not a substitute for a regular bike. It's really a substitute for a car, and that's it's real value. When I want to ride my bike, I want a real bike & an exceptional one at that. But, an ebike is an appliance, a tool, a vacuum cleaner. This is part of the reason I would not sully a nice bike with a motor; IMO it's more of a degradation than an enhancement and making it really nice is counterproductive.
Bikes & ebikes both have their place and their paths are already diverging. I highly recommend everyone have at least 1 ebike; and as many regular bikes as they can fit in the bike garage,finances & spouses will allow.
A real bike is an object of inspiration & passion; an ebike isn't.

[Joe Bernard]

What an ebike is depends massively on which one you're riding and what it's for. My current ride is a RANS Crank Forward with a Copenhagen Wheel which is shortly to be transferred to a Riv A/R. This is pedal assist only - no throttle - and freewheels well enough to be run some miles at 0 assist, effectively turning the ebike into a bike which can get a virtual tailwind on hills and in traffic. It's a bicycle.

OTOH my friend's husband has a throttle-only cruiser which I'm not sure he even pedals. He doesn't have a particular interest in cycling as an exercise activity, he just likes to get out there with the wife and kids who use regular bikes. His version is more of a moped.

In general I think they qualify as their own thing on the line: bike-ebike-moped-scooter-motorcycle-car. And some people are very passionate about them.

[masmojo]

Joe, I think what you are talking about is Apple's vs. Oranges in the Ebike sphere. I guess technically it's still an Ebike, but it's different at the same time. Which kinda goes back to what I said about regular bikes and Ebikes diverging.
The "Ebike" is evolving so fast and the bikes and their components are increasingly not cross compatible. Different everything; spokes, rims, tires, brake levers.
Yeah, some people are passionate about ebikes and they are such an eye opener that I sort of understand the enthusiasm initially, but I think it wears thin pretty fast. Once the "new" wears off. The Ebike is carving out it's own niche in-between bikes & motorcycles.
If you can dip your toes in both pools with the Copenhagen wheel, I guess that's a good thing!
As I alluded to earlier my first two thoughts after getting my Radwagon were "wow, everyone should have one of these " and "hmmm. . . I wish I was riding a real bike" it's the sort of contradiction that only a dedicated cyclist would think of.

[Joe Bernard]

"...were "wow, everyone should have one of these " and "hmmm. . . I wish I was riding a real bike" it's the sort of contradiction that only a dedicated cyclist would think of."

Yep, I have both. I did a nice loop on the RANS/Copenhagen Tuesday, then a shorter shop-and-ride on my Bike Friday yesterday. This choice will in the next few months evolve to a Riv/Copenhagen and a no-motor Riv Custom, which is hard to beat as a selection of bikes to hop on in the morning 👍

[EasyRider]

Yes, I think insta-ready all-road bikes have been en vogue for several years, and a 28mm-tired bike called "Roadini" isn't that, even if UltraRomance rides one.

[Garth]

 This is always fun as however the new bikes look they all ride like a Rivendell ...... like every Horse gallops !   Hee - Haw !

[Mark Roland]

On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 2:17:31 PM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
>  This is always fun as however the new bikes look they all ride like a Rivendell ...... like every Horse gallops !   Hee - Haw !

Not many of us can be as observant and profound as you, Garth. Thanks for sharing your insight!

[Ed Carolipio]

> "This is part of the reason I would not sully a nice bike with a motor;"

Thanks for nailing that for me, masmojo. I had been side-eying my Clem for motor, and now realize that's the reason why my lizard brain didn't want me to do it.

I wouldn't want the CHG to be an e-bike (just to loop back to the topic) but like you all I'm struggling to figure out what niche it would fill amongst their offerings.

--Ed C.

[Mark Roland]

Ed C. wrote:... like you all I'm struggling to figure out what niche it would fill amongst their offerings.

While it may or may be perceived as filling a niche, I don't think that matters. It's a bicycle design that was considered interesting or worthy enough by the designer or designers to bring into being. Part of that is necessity, of course, because we constantly demand something "new" and because that's mostly what sells bicycles in enough volume to survive. Part of it would fit in with the ongoing ideas of the designer or designers. In a bigger company, a new model is often targeted at a "niche" then updated every year with a different color and the latest components.

Rivendell's business model can't be quite like that, and for the most part doesn't want to be. Anyway, there are only so many so called "niches", and after that, it's mostly marketing. Rivendell bicycles of all models are already in a tiny niche of quality steel bicycles without discs or motors designed for Just Ride type riding. Looked at from this perspective, as Garth points out (not quite correctly in his original context, but hey, we cut gurus some slack) A Rivendell is a Rivendell is a Rivendell. But yeah, curious as always to see a new bicycle from Rivendell. Really the only bicycle company I can say that about at this point.

On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 12:28:46 AM UTC-4, Ed Carolipio wrote:

... like you all I'm struggling to figure out what niche it would fill amongst their offerings.

--Ed C.

[masmojo]

In light if recent events I have to wonder if we are looking at the dawn of a new Rivendell; one were all of the standard frames will be TIG welded? (Lug less)?

[Mark Roland]

Lug-less, maybe. But the latest offerings are fillet-brazed, a horse of a different color than tig-welded frames. And true to the construction of some of the earliest Hillibikes, especially those made by T. Ritchey, I believe Grant owned one at some point. His might have been a road though, don't recall. Also, even the tig frames have the seat cluster lug and the fork crowns, unlike any other bicycles being offered today that I know of. A nice connection to the roots.

[Philip Williamson]

Super Legolas.

Lightweight cross-ish bike that takes 55-60mm tires. Longish chainstays, and adjusted front end to handle the tire upsizing. Sloping top tube. May come with a Hite-Rite. SUPERMOTO style.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

[Joe Bernard]

Truss Bike!

[James Warren]

I jump on Philip's idea and add my desire for lugs at the three points of the main "triangle" and a cream head tube.

Philip's idea:

"Super Legolas.

Lightweight cross-ish bike that takes 55-60mm tires. Longish chainstays, and adjusted front end to handle the tire upsizing. Sloping top tube. May come with a Hite-Rite. SUPERMOTO style."

- James Warren

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[Brewster Fong]

On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 3:20:01 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:

Truss Bike!

Maybe the ugliest bike ever made....

[Joe Bernard]

Yes that is indeed atrocious, but I meant THIS truss bike. Which kinda uses the "rainbow" Riv puts on some big bikes.

https://antbikemike.wordpress.com/

[David Bivins]

FINALLY! A bike to carry my laundry detergent!

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[Chris L]

Looks like someone melted and reshaped a milk crate into a bicycle frame.    

[Mark Roland]

I think that was made of magnesium or something very brittle. Only a few were made, most broke. Unless I have it confused with another bike. Though that would take some effort.

[Bill Eberle in Portland OR]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as they say. I was totally smitten when the Kirk Precision came out back in the day. They don't make milk crates out of magnesium, do they? If the Charlie J Gallop is just as much off the wall as the Kirk, I'm all for it.

[Philip Williamson]

Mixte head lugs may allow for a serious sloping top tube...

Philip

Santa Rosa, CA 

On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 5:17:25 PM UTC-7, Jimmy Warren wrote:

I jump on Philip's idea and add my desire for lugs at the three points of the main "triangle" and a cream head tube.

Philip's idea:

"Super Legolas.

Lightweight cross-ish bike that takes 55-60mm tires. Longish chainstays, and adjusted front end to handle the tire upsizing. Sloping top tube. May come with a Hite-Rite. SUPERMOTO style."

- James Warren

On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 2:29 PM Philip Williamson <philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

Super Legolas.

Lightweight cross-ish bike that takes 55-60mm tires. Longish chainstays, and adjusted front end to handle the tire upsizing. Sloping top tube. May come with a Hite-Rite. SUPERMOTO style.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

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[Fullylugged]

Bill Lindsay wrote: "I think Rivendell miscalculated what many people want." This happens ALL THE TIME. RBW makes bikes that GP thinks are "smart", "interesting", "useful" or somehow cooler than what the riding public actually wants. They usually kill off their best sellers in order to produce something more obscure that only the true faithful will find desireable. I have always told people, if you see someting at Riv you like, buy it now. It likely will not be there later. For a 25 year old outfit, the list of discontinued models is long.

Fully lugged and happy to be that way :)

[Austin B.]

Fullylugged wrote: "They usually kill off their best sellers in order to produce something more obscure that only the true faithful will find desirable."

This is where I find myself scratching my head. I don't work in the bike industry, but I do work in product and have marketing experience. I have long struggled to see how RBW segments their product lineup. To make sense of it, this is how I segment their lineup in my own mind: 

This only accounts for what they currently have on their frames page. It excludes recent bikes like the Appaloosa, Hunqapillar & GBW (all are burly, wide-tired, offroad touring frame and would be with the Atlantis on this chart). 

In the way I do the segmentation, a gap exists in lower priced mixed terrain box. This used to be held by the Sam Hillborne before the AHH and Atlantis went MIT, but now the Sam is at the same price point as the AHH. So maybe the Gallop will fill this need? We'll see. Grant's no dummy and I have to think they have a segmentation strategy--I just am not seeing it. And with so many products that have a lifespan of just a couple years, it seems (as Fullylugged suggests) that they have bikes which are "more obscure that only the true faithful will find desirable." 

I don't have any familiarity with product development costs in the bike industry, but have to think there are significant expenses w/r/t prototyping and setting up production. It seems they do it way more often than is necessary. I'd really like to see RBW hang on another 25 years--but given their recent financial struggles, maybe they should focus on the core products for awhile and move away from the niche ones.

[Keith Swanson]

I asked Grant about the Charlie H Gallop yesterday and he was happy to answer any questions about it, saying that it would be a blend of Roadini and Clem, sold as a complete bike.  

On Wednesday, September 11, 2019 at 5:18:23 PM UTC-7, John G. wrote:

The September email update teases a new bike: the Charlie H Gallop. PREDICTIONS! GO!

Mine: MIT lugged road-ish bike with Cantis. 650B even at the largest size. Level top tube, but fewer size options.

[The Snag]

Sounds like Austin nailed it with his empty slot there....

[Joe Bernard]

I don't see a difference between core products and niche as it concerns frames with Riv: They're too small for the whole thing to not be a niche. Within that niche I perceive RBW bikes as analogous to Harley-Davidson, where you have a base idea of what the bike should be, then build various iterations of this theme over the years.

I'm not confused by Riv's bike models because I understand they're not intended to be drastically different things.

[Dorothy C]

According to Austin’s chart I have a good selection - a Noodle bar Roadini, a Cheviot with Chocos and an Appaloosa that I have just put Bullmoose bars on. My low end, can carry medium loads bike is an old Scott aluminum hybrid that I rebuilt with a Velocity wheelset and Riv drivetrain for a much improved ride. It is a 700c wheel bike, and I would prefer a 650b but Riv don’t have anything that wouldn’t be too much of an overlap with my Cheviot at the moment.

[Steve Palincsar]

Especially when they have to develop a new lug set for the bike.  Of course, what with their lug maker leaving the business and the MIT frames, there may be less of that in future.

On 9/22/19 9:26 AM, Austin B. wrote:

I don't have any familiarity with product development costs in the bike industry, but have to think there are significant expenses w/r/t prototyping and setting up production. It seems they do it way more often than is necessary.

-- 
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia 
USA

[Joe Bernard]

Yup, I think the future for Riv is in fillet frames with a seat lug. I'm ok with this, but I say so as a guy getting a fully lugged custom. I'm making sure I get my lugs now!

[Timothy Hurley]

“Mix of Roadinni and Clem” sounds very interesting. What do you all think that would look like? Something like a rim brake Crust Bombora?

[Jeffrey B]

Sounds like a tigged Sam with longer chainstays.

[Joe Bernard]

"Sounds like a tigged Sam with longer chainstays."

Which would be a Clem with a shorter toptube for dropbars. Makes sense.

[Mark Roland]

Not sure what it will look like (other than a bike) but it sounds like "Clemeeni."

But the Bombora has 73 degree seat tube and 42.5cm chainstay and even the Roadini is slacker and longer, so a love child will presumably have at least those numbers, with some additional DNA influence from the Clem.

[EasyRider]

I think it'd look like a Rosco Bubbe Road, except 650b in the smaller sizes because it won't have been designed around leftover SimpleOne forks.

On Monday, September 23, 2019 at 9:11:29 AM UTC-4, Timothy Hurley wrote:

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Unless designed around some leftover Appaloosa... or Sam forks! I’m of course joking, but you never know...

Come to think of it, wasn’t Roman’s Med Rosco Mtn Mixte 650b but with an Appaloosa crown? I know Will’s Huge version was a Hunq fork but wonder if that Med was a one-off fork? Sorry, Not trying to derail the topic and the brain’s a little fuzzy after a long few days/weeks/months.

Either way, very curious to see how Charlie turns out.

[Paul M]

Grant's blog (blahg) early November No. 30 starts off with a partial schematic of a frame design that isn't labeled but looks like part Roadini/Clem/Suzie Longbolt. The top tube attaches higher up on the seat tube than the Suzie and the wheels show 700c x 2.0. With the lack of being able to view the brakes it could be intended for long reach Tektro caliper brakes! A mixed-use lower priced compete. Sounds like Charlie H. Gallop.  

[A. Douglas M.]

During his recent xbiking AMA on Reddit, Grant replied to a comment about quickbeams (and single speed fork ends) that the commentor will probably like the new bike Rivendell is designing.

It would make sense for Rivendell to release a singlespeed with the “new” Riv geometry. It’s been a while since the Frank Jones were released.

Best,

Aaron in El Paso

[Chris L]

The file name is "charlie_for_blahg".

[Eamon Nordquist]

Another quote from Grant’s reddit ama:
“The next one is Charlie H. Gallop, and it's a high-clearance, v-braked roadish bike that'll fit to 50mm.”

Eamon
Seattle

[Garth]

The gung-ho fasten-ation with v-brakes and no rear brake bridge for cantilevers ..... all I can say is roll-of-the-eyes sheesh !

On Friday, December 20, 2019 at 12:29:19 PM UTC-5, Eamon Nordquist wrote:

Another quote from Grant’s reddit ama:

“The next one is Charlie H. Gallop, and it's a high-clearance, v-braked roadish( huh ? ) bike that'll fit to 50mm.”

Eamon
Seattle

[Joe Bernard]

I insisted my custom have no added bits for cantis, which are a gigantic pain to set up with no appreciable braking or aesthetic improvement over v-brakes. Gimme strong simple brakes and tire clearance all day long, if I need more brake I'll buy a bike with discs.

[Bruce Herbitter]

I agree about cantos mostly, but I have been very impressed by the stopping power of the Mafac centerpulls on my Waterford with a Terraferma fork. Centerpulls are easy to set up, but it does complicate front rackage.

YMMV.

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 20, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I insisted my custom have no added bits for cantis, which are a gigantic pain to set up with no appreciable braking or aesthetic improvement over v-brakes. Gimme strong simple brakes and tire clearance all day long, if I need more brake I'll buy a bike with discs.
>
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[Joe Bernard]

Ok, let's roll that out. I had a frame with braze-ons for Paul Centerpulls so I bought them and they worked great. But there was all that business with cable hangers and stops and I don't think they worked any better than v-brakes. What's the benefit? It's not a sarcastic question, I genuinely don't know why someone would pick them when buying or designing a new frame.

[maxcr]

Did I read on the AMA that Charlie is a single speed with very long chain stays?
Max

[Patrick Moore]

I'm no expert, but my experience, such as it is, says that well set up canti brakes have better modulation than V brakes which, like all the 3 sets of BB7 discs I've used, tend to be "snatchy" -- tho' this is all more of an academic discussion point than a real problem. That is to say, the grabby nature of V's and cable discs is noticeable but not problematical.

Yes, I agree, cable hangars are a pain, and I personally have always hated setting up cantilevers with road bars and levers. That said, the best brakes I've ever used, bar none -- and this "none" includes everything from cable disks thru Altenberger dual pivots to Dura Ace centerpulls to Bowden-cable-rod-brake hybrids -- were the IRDs wide profiles set up by Riv on my erstwhile Sam. Braking paradise; after I sold that bike, I had to come back to merely earthly braking performance.

On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 3:36 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok, let's roll that out. I had a frame with braze-ons for Paul Centerpulls so I bought them and they worked great. But there was all that business with cable hangers and stops and I don't think they worked any better than v-brakes. What's the benefit? It's not a sarcastic question, I genuinely don't know why someone would pick them when buying or designing a new frame.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[ted]

Because the levers they like aren’t for v brakes?
Or they don’t see any significant down side to cantilever brakes?
Or they prefer the aesthetics?
I’ve yet to understand what the advantage of v brakes is.
Sure they work fine, but (in my experience) so do other kinds.

[Joe Bernard]

I just read the AMA and my impression is Gallop is a roadish frame with long stays and the singlespeed is a different bike. This is the SS quote:

"We're working on a one-speed for late 2020."

[Joe Bernard]

"Because the levers they like aren’t for v brakes?
Or they don’t see any significant down side to cantilever brakes?
Or they prefer the aesthetics?"

It was a sincere question. Answering my question with questions sounds sarcastic and patronizing to me. Should I not ask any more questions?

[Joe Bernard]

Also, the question was in response to a comment about centerpulls, then offered my own experience with them. The question is v-brakes v. centerpulls, not cantis.

[ted]

Sorry that was not my intention, so I apologize.
My bad.

[Drw]

I like v brakes a lot. In my experience they are definitely simpler and at least equal to any other rim brake. My problem with them is the drop bar lever selection. There are 2 options. One is known to crack and the other is hard to track down and not amazing.
A road bike, I assume, probably means drop bars. If rivendell or anyone wants to introduce a good long pull drop lever, I’d buy 5 sets.

[Joe Bernard]

"Sorry that was not my intention, so I apologize.
My bad."

It's all good, apparently I misunderstood it.

[ted]

Again my mistake.
As regards center pulls, post mounted or otherwise, or for that matter dual pivots with respect to v brakes I think choice of levers, aesthetics, or even just finding no defect in the non v brake alternative are reasons enough for a person to prefer non v brakes.
Which is not to suggest that you shouldn’t prefer v brakes over any other style. We are all entitled to our preferences.

[Joe Bernard]

True and a lot of centerpull bikes have dropbars.

[Pancake]

At Riv HQ today Grant said something like, “roadies v-braked complete bike in similar style to Susie. Likely with the upcoming Riv made v-brakes, tig welds. We’ll see.”

Sounds great to me - looking forward to those v-brakes.

[Jason Fuller]

 From the AMA on reddit yesterday,

"The next one is Charlie H. Gallop, and it's a high-clearance, v-braked roadish bike that'll fit to 50mm."

Nothing new there, definitely sounds very similar to the Hillborne. I expect the chainstays to be ~10mm longer than the equivalent size AHH and longer TT's.

[Joe Bernard]

The diagram Paul M mentioned shows a low stepover, kind of a high Gus/Susie variation. Also it's going to be mostly-TIGed, so lower price point than Hillborne. We're discussing a bike that's "like a Hillborne" but with a lower-curved toptube, different tube joinery and lower cost. That's a different bike.

[Jason Fuller]

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. That said, I don't consider a curved top tube to make any difference in whether it rides like / not like a Hillborne. Price point is a differentiator but also kind of a separate consideration, especially since Sam wasn't a super expensive frame (by Riv standards) to start.  I'd love to see more Clem-level priced bikes from Riv though!  I've been wanting a Clem H for commuting but being squarely between two very far-apart sizes has been a detractor.

[Joe Bernard]

How tall are you/PBH? I just sold a 52 Clem H cuz the current models have longer toptubes (I didn't know that) and the dang thing was just too big for me. That one might be a little snug on you with the stock Boscos, but there's a hundred other less-reachy-back bars you could pop on there.

[Jason Fuller]

80 cm; I would err towards a 45 if choosing because I'd rather a bike a little small than a little large.  And the 45's actually pretty reasonable for my size from a numbers perspective though there is a big disconnect with the recommended height range. I think you were expecting I was between 52 & 59 but it's more likely that we're very similar height!

On the topic of the Charlie H Gallop, segway being that the diagram from the Blahg (whether it's the CHG or not) is one size up from mine probably (580 ETT, 545 ST) - I see that size is 700c, I really, really hope the next size down is 650B!  I feel strongly that 700C is too large for my size on any bike other than skinny tire road bikes. 650B's rise to popularity was a godsend for people our size IMO, it's the perfect proportional size when used with a 35-42mm tire. 

[Joe Bernard]

Oh you're right, the guy I sold to was between the two bigger sizes and my brain stuck there. We're the same height and I have a 45cm L, it's perfect as long as you don't mind a lot of post showing like modernish bikes (I don't mind). The height stuff on the Riv site is way outdated, it applies to the first gens with shorter effective toptubes. Hey, you should grab the deal they're doing on 45 H models right now!

[Joe Bernard]

My Clem L. I use ultra-short cranks so your saddle height will be lower.