Am I thinking practically? Riv for all seasons

[Trevor Oleniuk]

First time posting here. Not yet an owner, but working on it!

A few years back, I sold my year round commuter (a Surly Steamroller with custom Canti mounts) in favour of a bike with disc brakes, thinking that would be the way to go for all-season riding. For reference, I live in the middle of Canada where we have snow up to 6 months of the year, with temperatures hovering well below -20C for a lot of that.

I've recently been eyeing up the Joe Appaloosa as a contender for my next bike. The idea is that it would be commuter as well as tourer/light trail/etc. There would be some overlap with other bikes, but I am going to be honest and say that I am smitten with that bike.

Does anyone have any experience riding their Riv in awful wintery conditions? I've survived on 33c CX tires before, so that aspect of the bike is less of a concern. I am mostly thinking about the rim brake concerns and any other things to watch out for. Or maybe I am just trying to coax myself into moving distinctly into N+1 territory. 

I would be happy to hear any thoughts about riding Rivs in awful winter conditions.

[Will]

I have a Toyo Atlantis and my son has an Appaloosa. They are very similar. The Appaloosa has longer chainstays but that doesn't seem to change handling much. We're in Wisconsin and can ride from March until December. In December the roads get icy and it's not worth putting on studded tires for the couple of months we'd want them. 

Both bikes are wonderful all rounders. You can''t go wrong with either. Both take fat tires. My son's bike will easily take 700x45s (fendered) which is plenty of tire. It will probably take 50s with fenders, don't know, but suspect it would. 

Your concern is brakes. The Appaloosa comes with V brakes. They do well. Not sure that discs would do much better. 

I'd do the N plus 1 route until you're sure about the Appaloosa. It's a great bike. You won't do better. 

You'll want an Abus U lock for it. It's that beautiful.     

[Jason Fuller]

I would vote two bikes, one being the Appaloosa because I'm biased just like everyone else here and we all have an insatiable thirst to see more of them built up. The other, a disc brake bike for winter if you plan to ride year-round because while V-brakes are great in the dry and still pretty good in the wet, they're pretty much useless when frozen as you have no doubt experienced!  I hate how loud disc brakes become in the snow, but to their credit, they keep working.  Depends on your riding though - if you are just cruising MUP's in the winter, maybe that few moments of delay on the brakes (while the pads heat the rims) isn't a big deal, but if you're commuting in the city and need to be able to stop quick to avoid a collision, I'm team disc brakes once it's snowy. 

It's frustratingly hard to find a bike with Riv-like geometry and disc brakes - some compelling bikes made by Crust, Black Mountain etc but tend to be drop bar fit so probably not suitable for the bars you're likely thinking for an Appa. A Crust Evasion for winter and an Appaloosa for summer sounds pretty excellent as a two-bike household IMO!  I'd actually go Hillborne in that situation, as it's quicker but still capable of all the things you've listed.  Cheers!  

[Ian A]

I'm in Alberta and in the past ten years I have lived here, I have winter commuted on an 80's Rocky Mountain MTB with 26"x2" Schwalbe Ice Spikers. The bike has held up well, but all components have to be considered sacrificial as the winter is hard on the bike. I ran it as a 2x6 for the first ~six years, then converted it to a single speed (50x20) and it does well. Hauls groceries and commutes in the winter and hauls groceries, commutes and gets locked up around town in the summer!

My nice bikes don't do the winter stuff. The grit, salt, spring thaw puddles etc are just too wear inducing. I rebuild the Rocky periodically and has never let me down. I would say the Appaloosa would handle the winter conditions well, but keeping it nice for Spring/Summer/Fall touring, commuting, errands etc and a slightly more sacrificial winter bike that you can still be fond of is the way to go.

IanA Alberta Canada

[Den John]

I agree with Ian from Alberta. I've used a variety of old 80s-90s non-suspension MTBs for commuting the past few years. There aren't many better

bikes for commuting as long as they have mudguard and rack mounts. Components will suffer in the winter, so stick with basic stuff. Steel chainrings might be good idea. I currently have a specialized stumpjumper converted to 650B with 42mm tyres.

If you do decide to use a Rivendell, get the best mudguards you can. I bought some Gilles Berthoud stainless guards a couple of years ago and it is remarkable how much difference they make keeping the frame clean in horrible conditions.

Another consideration is what your bike storage at work is like. I found that my employer has a secure underground bike storage that is little used, so I'd be ok with storing a nice bike there. Previously I locked up my bike at a crowded bike rack in a train station, and then at a public bike rack used by students. I wouldn't want to do that with my nice bikes.

Cheers,

Johnny

[J S]

I would not rule out a Hillborne. 

[Joe Mullins]

+1 on the Hillborne. It’s really a swiss-army knife bike! 

On Mar 14, 2022, at 10:48 AM, J S <jrst...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would not rule out a Hillborne. 

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[Mackenzy Albright]

I am also a canadian - Edmonton Alberta. For winter commuting I used to use a salsa elmariachi 29er single speed. That was 10 years ago when it'd get cold and stay cold and conditions were stable. I find the last 3 years there's been a lot of freeze thaw which produces more ice patches, sludge, grime, and general unpredictable conditions. 

I used to ride 80's mtbs which I love, but always have so many quirks. I ended up ordering a custom SSFG MTB frame from marino bike to double as a winter/ single track MTB. A mix of a surly 1x1 and crust evasion. It was cheaper than buying a surly frame and fork and designed it around parts I had in a bin. It's an incredible simple bike and I enjoy the fixed with hydraulic front brake that is very reliable in all conditions. I just load everything down with fluid film and it cleans up nicely in the spring. 

I also recently acquired a ClemL. I just sit on it half built in my living room imagining warm weather and sunshine. I am in love - and can tell it'll be amazing once the steel rot snow sludge is gone. 

I've admitted to myself that I needed multiple bikes in Edmonton. It was easier to have only a few living in victoria/west coast with more mild weather. 

[Trevor Oleniuk]

Thanks for all the replies. I have basically come to accept that any Riv I get will need to be N+1 for now. My current commuter is a 1x9 running disc brakes and 700x42 (though I dabbled with 650x48 for a blink). I will likely keep that around for the time being. The evasion is pretty awesome for riding, but its not especially a bike I want to lock up for any period of time. As often as a Riv is, it doesn't strike me as a theft-magnet, especially where I live.

I always find it so fascinating how different people view this topic. I appreciate the comments about going through parts/drivetrains, which I have definitely experienced some on my current and former winter set ups. When I had my Steamroller set up with v-brakes, the brakes themselves only lasted a winter before they succumbed to rust. Fortunately, where I live now, they don't salt the roads so that will be less of a concern, regardless of bike choice. 

[Mackenzy Albright]

I'd suggest not overthinking or overly justifying the purchase of a Rivendell. If you're keen and really are into that style of bike and afford it just go for it. I finally picked up a second hand clem L from a user here and the details on the frame are astounding. I love the mixte style bikes and have wanted one for quite some time. Happy I did and cant wait to be able to get it built and into my riding rotation. Plus, It's always easy to set up something less precious for locking up or grimy days. 

[Jason Fuller]

A Clem set up with utilitarian parts for winter riding combined with a Hillborne with higher end parts for summer riding sounds pretty awesome, thinking about it!

I bet that long wheelbase on the Clem (and Joe) would handle real nice in snow, too 

[Patrick Moore]

MacKenzy has a good point. A Rivendell is valuable enough for its design, ride, quality, and style that -- I think, depending on one's finances and responsibilities -- one can justify owning one simply for the pleasure of having a truly wonderful bike to ride; utilitarian considerations come second, or at least take a lesser place than, perhaps, with other bikes less distinctive.

As to riding it in harsh conditions: I've never ridden in heavily salted urban weather conditions -- I have ridden in snow enough to know something about what it is like; recall the snow packing up under the fender at the brake bridge on my first Road Custom on at least a couple of winter commutes to work. But this was rare and, in any event, no salt. 

OTOH, I converted that custom and the next but one (2003 Curt) to regular commuting duties as fixed gears, in the first case personally removing unneeded braze ons, and in the second, having a builder do it more elegantly. (Conversion 1 actually turned out quite well, though.) In the case of the 2003, the clean, shiny bike was hanging on the wall while most of my cross-town commutes were on a (nice) beater, and I said, "Hey, that makes no sense," so I turned it into a commuter to enjoy it a lot more, and so it happened. This 2003 often got slung on cross-town bus bike racks, and locked up at public parking racks, so it got a few bumps and scuffs.

So, I think that, if I were in the OP's position, I'd have a Riv (or equivalent custom) dedicated to commuting, build it up to be as maintenance-free and cheap to maintain as possible (fixed gears wonderful for this), and simply be careful about washing and wiping it down in the harsh season.

OTOH again, I wouldn't trust to the oddity of a Rivendell to protect it from theft. And, depending on your riding preferences, you can certainly make a very wonderful commuter out of much less expensive and cherishable bikes. I've ridden many a nice errand beater, but the 2 I wish I'd kept are (1) the very early Raleigh Technium sports tourer, flexy, heavy, cushy, fixed conversion, great fun with (then) "fat" 32s (that's the one I used to pull the child trailer), and a pre-susp, NORBA-type top-end DB mountain bike, fixed conversion with White ENO hub and 60 mm Big Apple tires, 64" or 65" gear, and 46 cm Noodles. A really wonderful all rounder.

(Aside: I didn't own it during one of our more snowy years, but I did ride it in snow and on ice patches, and I can heartily recommend a British Racing Trike as the ultimate winter riding machine. Ice? No worries!  It's also a 2-wheels-good / 3-wheels-better grocery vehicle, with a huge saddlebag -- mine was a Riv Hoss. And I wonder what a prospective thief would think at seeing a BRT ...?)

But none as nice as commuters as custom Riv road bikes!

[ascpgh]

Your location may insist, for peace of mind more than reality, a second bike for subjecting to the conditions of winter riding. Why I have a "sacrificial" commuter: 

My thought was same as yours. I also rationalized needing disc brakes on a drop bar bike for these conditions. I've had few points clarify over the years I've had this bike (first year Surly Disc Trucker) for year round commuter use. 

-I have not had to replace any component of this box bike other than some preference switches of bar, stem, pedals, seat post, saddle, and generator front hub.

-I do not ride this bike farther than 15-20 miles because box stock geometry (besides my under square Rambouillet) has never worked for me. My legs are longer or my torso is too short for my height. If I settle in  to position to optimize pedaling, the bars are just too far away. The next size down presented worse seat post and stem issues. 

 

-I value the longer wheelbase when things are sloppy or the ravages of winter have taken their toll on the roads and look like trail surfaces in the headlight. Steady as she goes when potentially disrupted or the threshold of control is near in the slick stuff, despite studded tires. 

-I do not care for disc brakes in this application. They haven't risen to be better than rim brakes in my use, maybe it's the mechanical format. I've found that the pads wear suddenly, not rewarding monitoring which I do visually and refuse to advance to removing the pads to caliper on an interval but perhaps should.  If they get wet in the rain or exposed to winter slop I might as well replace if not almost new or risk a sudden frightening absence of function. I have enough esoteric parameters of function I've come to know about bicycles and monitor but I've tired of the whole set particular to mechanical discs and find that I sink more money into replacement discs, pads, cable and housings without correlation to improved function that I get from care maintenance and adjustment from my rim brakes. It may have been a more pleasant riding bike without the engineering up of the fork, rear dropouts and seat stays for disc brake dynamics.

Hope all the input from others has helped justify or rationalize your bike decisions. Either choice, n+1 or n=1,  is right because it's yours.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh