Advice Needed: Best Remedy for a Slipping Hunqapillar Seatpost

[John Phillips]

   Okay, I admit, I can be the world's worst procrastinator, but after seven years, I'm getting tired of raising my seatpost after every ride. The slot cut into seat tube on my 2013 Hunqapillar doesn't have the space needed to accomodate the long-style Nitto brake cable hanger my Hunq came with, so I am done with procrastinating and am looking for the best possible solution.

Should I grind away a bit of the seat tube so the the brake cable hanger no longer interferes with the seat post binder bolt?

Switch to a different cable hanger like a Paul Component Funky Monkey?

If anyone has a solution they would like to recommend, I would be very grateful. I certainly don't want to make matters worse.

Thanks!

John

[Clayton.sf]

I have had good luck with a seatpost size larger by 0.2mm.

Carbon friction paste is an option too.

Clayton Scott
HBG, CA

[John Phillips]

Hi Clayton,

        Thanks for the idea. I should have specified I would also very much like to stick with my Nitto S83 seatpost.

John

[Patrick Moore]

As Clayton suggested, friction paste. I solved a slipping Syncro seatpost with blue Loctite, but I think there is another type made expressly to prevent slippage.

(And linking to another thread, about flexing seatposts: This thinwall titanium post flexed; I noticed things when I swapped it out for a -- non-slipping -- American Classic in aluminum; the feel got more "solid" all of a sudden.)

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Kurt Manley]

The post on my Hunq had to be knurled to prevent slipping. I think Riv has the tool as do most bike shops that have been around for a couple decades.

[Clayton.sf]

If it is a 26.8 you may be able to flex hone the ST to get a 27.2 in there (Handwringers need not apply). Also Nitto makes 27.0 posts, not sure about 27.4.

Clayton Scott
HBG, CA

[Philip Williamson]

File down the hanger? File up the slot?
I’d do both, a little bit.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

[Brian Reeves]

I third the idea of trying friction paste on the seat post to help your slipping seat post as long as it is the right size seat post.  You might also try a thinner cable hanger such as a surly brake hanger since you are hitting the seat post with your Nitto brake hanger:

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:23:55 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:

As Clayton suggested, friction paste. I solved a slipping Syncro seatpost with blue Loctite, but I think there is another type made expressly to prevent slippage.

(And linking to another thread, about flexing seatposts: This thinwall titanium post flexed; I noticed things when I swapped it out for a -- non-slipping -- American Classic in aluminum; the feel got more "solid" all of a sudden.)

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 6:35 PM John Phillips <w00ly...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Clayton,

        Thanks for the idea. I should have specified I would also very much like to stick with my Nitto S83 seatpost.

John

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 4:48:08 PM UTC-8, Clayton.sf wrote:

I have had good luck with a seatpost size larger by 0.2mm.

Carbon friction paste is an option too.

Clayton Scott
HBG, CA

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[lconley]

This is from the Riv website, works on the rear brake bridge also:

But on a Hunqapillar, I would use the Funky Monkey.

Laing

Delray Beach, FL

[Pancake]

I have one of those surly hangers if you want. Postage plus $2 and it’s yours. But I agree with the others that friction paste is the first thing to try.

[spencer robinson]

One really nice feature that I admire on Rivendell frames is that the "pinch" bolt for the Seat post is just a normal bolt and nut.  I think I would ensure that the cable hanger is not limiting how tightly the pinch bolt is influencing the seat post.

If the hanger is in conflict, I would take my dremil to the hanger and fix that. Then a bit of grease on the post and grease on the pinch bolt threads and tighten that bolt, really tight, worse case is you strip the bolt, you can get a new one out of the parts bin or the hardware store.

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 7:28:17 PM UTC-5, John Phillips wrote:

[Ian Dickson]

I agree with Spencer that the hanger is the first thing I'd work on, whether replacing or modifying it. 

[John Phillips]

Hi Everyone,

   Thank you for all your suggestions.

    My 27.2 Nitto S83 seatpost is snug enough in the seat tube to stay put at a given height if there is only a very, very thin film of grease, so I suppose the friction paste might work. How clean does the seat tube need to be of grease for the friction paste to work? And how did you degrease the interior of the seat tube?

      

   With the seatpost in the seat tube, and no binder bolt present, I have a total of about 0.5mm of play between the hanger and the edges of the slot in the seat tube. I'm kinda leary about grinding a bit too much off of the brake hanger, because if I weaken it too much, I would worry about the hanger snapping while braking downhill on a dirt road.

    So far, switching to something like the Paul Funk Monkey brake hanger seems like it might the the easiest route? Or am I missing something?

Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions,

John 

   

[Eric Norris]

John:

Sorry for jumping into this a bit late, but I’ll just add that the mechanics I have spoken to about slipping seatposts would *never* recommend friction paste. If your post is slipping, there is something going on that shouldn’t be “fixed” with friction paste. That’s like putting a band-aid on a broken arm.

When I had this problem on a bike recently (Soma Saga), the fix involved removing a tiny amount of excess material on the inside of the seat cluster that was preventing the seat post from being properly gripped. A few minutes with a file fixed the problem.

--Eric N

On Feb 19, 2020, at 11:34 AM, John Phillips <w00ly...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[John Phillips]

Thanks Eric,

     The interior of the seat tube is smooth, no problem there, but I could file away a bit on either side of the slot in the seat tube to accommodate the  brake hanger.

John

[David B]

John,

I think what you laid out in your initial post are the the permanent solutions. To confirm - your seatpost fits correctly and wouldn't slip if the brake hanger were not there, correct? The issue then is that the brake hanger is interfering with securing the seatpost fully.

If so, filing the frame slot or swapping brake hangers are your options.

I've filed the seat cluster/slot of my Redwood when I put in centerpull brakes - I had the same issue you're having. I do think that finding a thinner brake hanger (the Surly one is the thinnest option I've seen) or going with the Funky Monkey would be an easier fix.

Alternatively, you could switch to v-brakes and not have a need for a hanger.

David

[Garth]

First of all, leaving off the rear brake bridges for bikes that have canti studs is just plain stupid .... dumb dumb dumb.

Before you go about anything John you gotta know if the post stays put without the hanger.

If the post still slips you have either an irregularity in the seatpost or frame. Do measure with digital calipers.

If the post stays put w/o the hanger, don't go filing the inside of the seapost clamp, just don't .... repeat ... repeat .... repeat.  I would measure the thickness of the Nitto hanger and compare it to the gap. Filing "some" off is a slippery slope, you may be better getting a different one.

As mentioned try either the Surly hanger or the Origin8 one.  I use the Origin8 one on the front of one of my bikes and I found the brake works better having the hanger so close to the brake as opposed to way up at the headset.  The rear is no different.

 

[John Phillips]

Thanks David,

      Yep, no problem tightening the seat post binder bolt sufficiently with out the brake hanger present to interfere.

John

[John Phillips]

Thanks Garth, and everybody,

     Rather than futz around trying one or two thinner hangers, I think I will go with the Paul Funky Monkey rear brake cable hanger to solve my problem. More expensive but at least it will complement my Paul Touring canti's.

   I really want to thank everyone here for chipping in with all your advice, suggestions and experiences, you guys are the best!

   If this problem has been popping up since the Redwood, I wish Rivendell had paid a bit more attention to the issue. But I can't say I haven't enjoyed learning from everyone here on the forum how to best solve this problem.

Thanks again everyone!

John

[Joe Bunik]

I believe one **possible source** of this issue **IS** the Nitto cable
hanger itself --

On many Riv frames it fits "just fine" between the ears of the seatlug
-- but, on some, when you tighten down the post -- it actually catches
between the ears and cams the tube back open just enough to cause the
seatpost to slip.

I agree that while canti frames should include an integrated cable
stop, the rise of V-brakes makes the proper design treatment
ambiguous!

=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

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[Joe Bunik]

Follow-on thought question :

Does/did Riv use the same seat-lug (the "basic hardware/bolt-nut") -
for both 27.2 **and** 26.8 seatpost-sized frames? Perhaps that's the
key to the problem, that the Nitto hanger is incompatible on 26.8
frames using this lug?

=- Joe

[Joe Bernard]

Same hardware, but the OP's bike is a Hunqapillar with a 27.2 post. I think he just got unlucky with the dimensions of the binder ears and Nitto hanger on this one, something needs to be filed down or replaced in there.

[John Phillips]

    Hi,

     Yes, the outer edge of the long Nitto rear hanger nearly reaches my 27.2mm seatpost within the seat tube slot no matter what angle it hangs from the M6 bolt. It wouldn't be able to cam the slot in the seat tube open because it is already in the slot.

      I checked the seat tube on my AHH, which is using the smaller Nitto hanger, and if I needed to tighten the seat binder bolt a hair more, I would have the same problem with my AHH as well.

John

[David B]

To be fair, the Redwood was designed for sidepull brakes, so I don't think there needed to be thought about brake hangers.

David

[Clayton.sf]

Getting a longer binder bolt and using a Mafac hanger might be another solution as it bolts to the outside rather than into the slot. Like this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/291709320587.

Or get a longer bold that sticks our a little and bolt the Nitto hanger to the side. This will put the brake cable at an angle but depending on frame side it might not matter much. 

Personally, I'd just get a new frame.

Clayton Scott,

HBG, CA

[Brian Campbell]

This is my AHH, which had Paul Racers brazed on.

 

I used the Surly hanger at the suggestion of the builder. He told me it was the least likely to interfere with the seat lug and a lot cheaper than brazing on a dedicated stop along with the re-paint.

[Joe Bernard]

"Personally, I'd just get a new frame."

That's what I do when I get a scratch.

[John Phillips]

Well, I hadn't thought of that, but I guess I could order a custom Rivendell with 54cm Hunqapillar geometry, maybe with an iridescent Woolly mammoth brown paint job?

But I think there's a more reasonable solution, like the Surly or Paul brake hangers. ;)

John

[hugh flynn]

Things like this also exist - centered hanger but attaches outside the seat lug ears. May require some ebay work, but probably easier than getting a custom Riv built. 

https://www.renaissance-cycle.com/product/692267/weinmann-rear-brake-cable-hanger-nos-bx5-04-5-29-19

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Hugh Flynn
Newburyport, MA

[John Phillips]

Hi Hugh,

    I'm curious, what are the slots on the sides of the holes where the bolt goes through, and why are the holes on opposing sides of the holes?

Thanks,

John

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:38:37 PM UTC-8, Hugh Flynn wrote:

Things like this also exist - centered hanger but attaches outside the seat lug ears. May require some ebay work, but probably easier than getting a custom Riv built. 

https://www.renaissance-cycle.com/product/692267/weinmann-rear-brake-cable-hanger-nos-bx5-04-5-29-19

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 9:15 PM John Phillips <w00ly...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, I hadn't thought of that, but I guess I could order a custom Rivendell with 54cm Hunqapillar geometry, maybe with an iridescent Woolly mammoth brown paint job?

But I think there's a more reasonable solution, like the Surly or Paul brake hangers. ;)

John

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 5:35:00 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:

"Personally, I'd just get a new frame."

That's what I do when I get a scratch.

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[hugh flynn]

'Twas a time that builders used special bolts in seatpost binders. They were a socket and bolt combo that fit through holes in the seat lug tabs. One side was free to spin (the bolt side) and the other side (the socket side) had a key on the collar that fit into a slot cast into the lug to prevent it from turning.

Those slots are there for the "key" on the socket side of the seatpost bolt arrangement. One could choose which side to put the keyed socket in I guess, but you'd never use both keyed sides at the same time or you would be able to tighten the seatpost binder.

Hugh Flynn 

Newburyport, ma

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[John Phillips]

Hi Hugh,

      Thank you for your explanation, very easy to picture.

John

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[lconley]

Actually, this dates from the time when Allen heads were not the default. What is pictured is exactly what came on my Paramount. The bolt head had the tang and was stationary and fed left to right - opposite of what you find on current Rivendells. The nut fed on from the right (chain) side. If you had sidepulls, the bolt head tang fit into a slot in the lug.

Laing

Delray Beach FL

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[John Phillips]

   Thanks again to everyone, I did learn quite a lot from you all, which made this more fun than aggravation.

   I solved this problem with a Surly Brake hanger. Kind of a tight fit length-wise, but it works. I checked out everyone's suggestions once again before going forward, but it was simply a matter of the longer Nitto brake cable hanger being too wide and too thick to fit between the bolt and the seat tube.

Thanks!

John