The 3x1 road bike. Anticipating some of your RoadUNO builds

[Bill Lindsay]

Thanks to unintentional prodding from Leah, I've pressed my new-to-me Romulus into service.  Some serindipitous objects in my parts inventory enabled a build concept that is functionally similar to the forthcoming RoadUNO.  It's got a single 18T freewheel, a Paul Melvin tensioner (from Joe B), a triple crank with 46/36/24 rings and a single DT shifter for the front derailleur.  This morning I "upgraded" the front derailleur to a Campy Mirage, which qualifies this bike for my "Every Bike should have one Campy Part" club:

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72157719595208740/

The other upgrade from this morning is I swapped out the front wheel to a quick release front hub, rather than the bolt-on Phil track hub.  I will likely rebuild that Phil front wheel with a dynamo hub.  Now the F+R hubs are both black.  Also, I "downgraded" to much skinnier tires.  This accomplishes two things: It allows wheel removal without deflation -AND- it generates ample clearance for fenders.  The three gears are 35/53/68 inches with these tires.  

I'm becoming progressively more and more "SOLD" on the validity of 3x1 as a build concept.  It works.  I may end up doing my May 2024 monthly Diablo summit on the RoadTrio.  

Even though I'm not buying a RoadUNO, I'm excited to see who else gives 3x1 a try with an open mind and concurs that it works for them.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Gordon Stam]

Hey Bill, nice build on the 3x1. Used frames and lots of spare parts are fun that way.

G

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From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2024 12:26 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [RBW] The 3x1 road bike. Anticipating some of your RoadUNO builds

 

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[P W]

Brilliant Bill.

And good reference/inspiration.

I tried out an Uno on Monday.

And committed to a 57 for myself!

I’m really excited by the bike and it’s build and ride prospects.

Mine’s gonna look like a late 80s MTB disguised as a 3spd road bike, for sure tho!

P. W.

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(917) 514-2207

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On Apr 26, 2024, at 11:26 AM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks to unintentional prodding from Leah, I've pressed my new-to-me Romulus into service.  Some serindipitous objects in my parts inventory enabled a build concept that is functionally similar to the forthcoming RoadUNO.  It's got a single 18T freewheel, a Paul Melvin tensioner (from Joe B), a triple crank with 46/36/24 rings and a single DT shifter for the front derailleur.  This morning I "upgraded" the front derailleur to a Campy Mirage, which qualifies this bike for my "Every Bike should have one Campy Part" club:

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[Eric Daume]

I've had a Melvin in my parts stash for years that's looking for a reason, so this build kind of appeals to me. But, out here in the flatlands, I don't really need three super widely spaced gears. With my cruising (normally fixed) gear of 44x17, maybe something like 44/40/36, about 10% jumps. Hmm, maybe I'll see what rings I have in stock.

Eric

Plain City, OH

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[Richard Rose]

How does one “commit” to a RoadUNO at this point?

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 26, 2024, at 7:19 PM, P W <philip....@gmail.com> wrote:

Brilliant Bill.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4A42D825-74FF-4B4B-8D0D-A28F9100F8B7%40gmail.com.

[P W]

I said: “I’m getting one!”

P. W.

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(917) 514-2207

~

On Apr 26, 2024, at 4:52 PM, Richard Rose <rmro...@gmail.com> wrote:

How does one “commit” to a RoadUNO at this point?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/A0B718B3-C050-4FD1-89F3-3C5391DA47C4%40gmail.com.

[Bill Lindsay]

Committing to yourself is the first step.  Stating it on the RBW Group is legally and morally binding, also, so that's step two.  If you wanted to get really committed, email Will and see if Will is able to take your money, or if Will already knows you, you may be able to convince him to agree to hold one for you in your size.  He may tell you to wait until they are ready to do a pre-sale.  

BL in EC

[Richard Rose]

It’s funny because they just released more details including a “probable” pre sale in June. A month or two back they announced the lugged Susie presale. The next day there was a guy on Instagram riding his lugged Susie!! Had to be a prototype or sample, right?

I really want to “commit” but need is not part of the equation. Resisting in Toledo may be futile.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 26, 2024, at 8:25 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Committing to yourself is the first step.  Stating it on the RBW Group is legally and morally binding, also, so that's step two.  If you wanted to get really committed, email Will and see if Will is able to take your money, or if Will already knows you, you may be able to convince him to agree to hold one for you in your size.  He may tell you to wait until they are ready to do a pre-sale.  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6db9adb8-0a17-4e59-974d-b5e2060c2a79n%40googlegroups.com.

[P W]

A gentleman never tells (of his relationship to certain Rivendell employees, nor his local bike shop with a Rivendell account).

Quietly confident I’ll be able to get one in my size now, tho…

Hopefully even color choice, too. 

I even picked up the wheelset I needed while up in the bay.

I think that means I have most of what I need to build version 1.0.

Let’s see…

P. W.

~

(917) 514-2207

~

On Apr 26, 2024, at 5:43 PM, Richard Rose <rmro...@gmail.com> wrote:

It’s funny because they just released more details including a “probable” pre sale in June. A month or two back they announced the lugged Susie presale. The next day there was a guy on Instagram riding his lugged Susie!! Had to be a prototype or sample, right?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/285C7184-1FFE-4EE4-88AC-64639CE46A83%40gmail.com.

[DavidP]

Bill, glad to hear the 3x1 is working out. I built my Albastache Devil up as my RoadUNO proxy, currently a ss/fixed bike but had a 3x1 setup in the back of my mind as an option.

I'm thinking 48/40/28 keeping the DOS Eno 19/17 in back. FD will likely be a Tiagra, the tensioner a Dura Ace 7402. Since it has a DOS Eno maybe it'd be (3x1)x2?

Tires are GK 38 slicks (measuring ~36mm on CR18s) so gearing would be ~40/57/69 or 45/64/77 inches (not climbing any mountains on this bike).



-Dave

[Bill Lindsay]

Nice Paul wheels!  Good luck with it

BL in EC

[Bill Lindsay]

With your 7402 "tensioner" you could run a tiny short cable, such that twisting the barrel adjuster pulls it from the 17 to the 19.  I run that setup on a different bike.  

I'm summiting mount Diablo once a month, and I'm plotting which month this summer I ride my 3x1 Romulus.  Maybe July.  

BL in EC

[Patrick Moore]

We had a similar conversation back in February and, among the topic discussed was, why 3X1 instead of 1X3? Bill pointed out that commercially available 3 speed fws of good quality with huge tooth gaps are hard to find, whereas anyone can find a triple crank. 

But I keep coming back to theoretical efficiencies: IIRC, the gearing effect of tooth jumps in back are more or less double what they are in front. So the question is, how to get just 2 or 3 big jumps in back without a IGH.

Question: I've never followed BMX, but IIRC I've read of 2-speed BMX freehubs; was that really a thing? If so, perhaps that would be the ideal low-cog-count/big-ratio-jump system. And then there are those packages of spacers and ss HG-freehub-compatible kits that allow you to use just 1 -- or a few -- cogs on your 7-8-9-etc.-speed freehub.

Long ago I asked Phil Wood & Co. if they'd build me a fixed hub that would accept 3 sprockets. They replied, "Sure! Figure on about $400" -- this in circa 2000 dollars which per the DoL Inflation Calculator is ~$740 in 2024 monopoly money. With horizontals or track ends and a good steel internal cam QR you could have yourself a very good time without the need for a lousy (and FWIW considerably less that I paid for my TF hub). A  44 X 17/20/24 would give you 70", 60", and 50", a good spread with relatively unobtrusive hardware and bulk.

[Patrick Moore]

On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 11:40 AM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

... With horizontals or track ends and a good steel internal cam QR you could have yourself a very good time without the need for a lousy (and FWIW considerably less that I paid for my TF hub). A  44 X 17/20/24 would give you 70", 60", and 50", a good spread with relatively unobtrusive hardware and bulk.

Well, not quite, as you'd need very long dropouts/track ends indeed to accommodate 7 teeth: almost a good usable Inch of axle travel -- usable travel is not at all the same as theoretical travel. And as for a chain tensioner: with a single rear cog and 3 rings your tensioner would not have to move laterally as the chain was shifted, while 2 or 3 cogs would require chain tensioner re-alignment. So I've argued myself into agreeing with the 3X1 idea. Only, the ideal system for 3 wide ratio gears is the IGH.

[Jim M.]

Quickbeam came with 40/32 chainrings. The fork ends were long enough to cover the 8-t difference.

[Bill Lindsay]

The alternate configuration for this Romulus is going to be a re-think of a popular build configuration when I first got into cycling in the early 1980s: "sport tourer".  My first drop bar bike was. a 1983 Univega Sportour.  It had 28mm tires, a fairly wide range 2x6 drivetrain, and attach points for racks and/or fenders.  I've put skinny 27mm tires on the Romulus to accommodate full aluminum fenders, which I'll install this week.  I have a rear wheel built on the same rim that will take a 8/9/10 speed cassette.  I think I'm going to set that up with an 8sp 12-32.  Then add a single bar-con shifter and replace the tensioner with a rear derailleur and it's a light touring bike.  

For truly light loads the 3x1drivetrain will suffice, but with a 3x8 I'd be ready for anything (provided it's paved).  The trick in the setup will be to see how "quick change" I can make it.  There are a couple details in the set up that I believe could make it a ~5 minute switch.  We'll see how it shakes out.  I

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Ted Durant]

On Saturday, April 27, 2024 at 12:41:12 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

But I keep coming back to theoretical efficiencies: IIRC, the gearing effect of tooth jumps in back are more or less double what they are in front. So the question is, how to get just 2 or 3 big jumps in back without a IGH.

 Just build a 3-speed cassette and fill the rest of the space with spacers.

Bill's 46-36-24 is jumps of 25% (46-36) and 41% (36-24). An equivalent 25% jump in back would be 15-19 (24%), 16-21 (27%), 17-22 (26%), 18-23 (25%). An equivalent 41% jump in back would be 16-24 (41%), 17-25 (39%),  17-26 (42%), 18-27 (41%), 19-28 (39%), 19-29 (42%), 20-30 (41%), 21-31 (39%), 21-32 (42%),  ...

A very close equivalent to the 46-36-24 in front would be 15-19-28 in back. Pair that with a 44T chainring and you'd have 42-63-79 gear inches on 700x32C tires. At 22t of required chain wrap, take your pick of any rear derailer. I would expect much crisper shifting with that setup than a wide-range triple up front. Combine it with a compatible index shifter and you'll have a nice 3-speed externally geared hub. 

If you were so inclined. 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

[Bill Lindsay]

"I would expect much crisper shifting with that setup than a wide-range triple up front. "

If you build one of each and offer the comparative ride report, I'll be pleased to read it.  I still have the gear chart in front of me the last time Patrick Moore offered the theory that three gears in the back is objectively superior to three gears in the front.  That gear chart has a 36T ring with a 14/18/27.  I built a three cog freewheel and ran it on a 120mm O.L.D. hub, but not with a derailleur.  Usually (and I expect now) Patrick Moore will say how he is philosophically opposed to a tensioner of any kind and prefers long horizontal drop outs and a QR skewer for manual gear choosing.  

The thing that keeps coming to mind is the classic 5-speed freewheel:  14-17-20-24-28.  That has all the span we're talking about.  A nice 120mm O.L.D. frame with a 1x5 drivetrain, friction shifted with a modest rear derailleur would do all these things.  Don't be surprised a drivetrain of that kind pops out of my workshop in the next 3-6 months as well.  I encourage Ted and Patrick to build their ideas also.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Ted Durant]

On Sunday, April 28, 2024 at 7:10:32 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

 At 22t of required chain wrap, take your pick of any rear derailer

Bad Sunday morning math. 13 teeth of chain wrap. Even better

On Apr 28, 2024, at 9:36 AM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

The thing that keeps coming to mind is the classic 5-speed freewheel:  14-17-20-24-28.  That has all the span we're talking about.  

And if you pair it with, say, a 42-46 combo up front you have an ideal half-step setup… and you start back down the rabbit hole 

:-) 

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[Bill Lindsay]

" an ideal half-step setup… and you start back down the rabbit hole"

I've got a developing build concept that will feature a 12-14-17-20-24-28 cogset in back.  I've got a 130 BCD crankset for the conceptual build which has 53/42 rings.  I ran the numbers for 42/45 and 42/46, and I think I like 42/45 better.  I'm going to grab a 45T 130 BCD ring and a half-step front der and have some fun

BL in EC

[Gordon Stam]

I'm finding this discussion of 3 speed transmissions pretty interesting, to the point where I'm leaving the chain on the middle sprocket in the rear and just shifting the three cogs up front. It's a nice experience. You have to bear down and grunt sometimes, and sometimes you spin out, but you get the full range of cadences and the pedaling is more like you did when you were a kid, before discovering "cadence". I may be a convert, and I want a new wheelset anyway.

[Bill Lindsay]

One more significant step to a fully equipped "sport tourer" is now in place on my RoadTrio.  Soma recently had a tax-day 65% off sale on selected items, and one of the items was skinny (41mm) Honjo smooth fenders.  I'm used to paying $200 for Honjo fenders.  Soma had this model at $90 MSRP, and so 65% off was $31.50, so it felt like stealing.  Anyway, I finished the full-fender install last night.  The current tires on there are 27mm, and I could go a tiny bit wider with 41mm fenders, but it'll be skinny tires all the time.  

Pics prove it:

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53692239929/in/dateposted/

The next move is a rear rack, which I have picked out, but will have to save up to order.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

...and now, fully set up as a 3x8 with a different rear wheel.  I deployed a Rivendell endorsed "cheap RD", and an 8sp barcon.  Pics prove it:

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53706446278/in/album-72177720310604809/

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53706670515/in/album-72177720310604809/

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Drew Fitchette]

Love how it’s turning out Bill! 

[Bill Lindsay]

I just gotta get that perfect (PERFECT!) rear rack...

BL in EC

[Bill Lindsay]

Rear rack in place now on my Romulus.  It's a full on "sport touring" build now.

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53724531148/in/photostream/

The very last bit will be to get a dynamo setup.  Aside from that, it's ready for overnighter duty.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Drew Fitchette]

That rear rack is in fact the perfect one. 

I think the Salsa Stem is actually my favorite part of the whole build. Crushed it Bill!

[Bill Lindsay]

Thank you.  It's kind of a four decade anachronism.  A 1980s build concept and tire clearances.  1990s stem and 3x8 drivetrain.  2000s frame set.  2010s wheel set and handlebar.  2020s front rack and bag.  Timeless 1950s - 1960s metal fenders, retro-copy rear rack and saddle.  

I'm going to pull out my ultra-minimalist camping stuff and do a mock-up of how I might load it up for a potential summertime ride down the California Coast.  

BL in EC

[Bill Lindsay]

I wanted to get my 3x1 up Diablo before all you 3x1 RoadUno riders have the chance!

Today I finished my 6th summit of Mount Diablo, on my 6th different bike.  I've summited Mount Diablo every month of 2024 (so far).  

This time it was on the RoadTrio, my version of a RoadUno 3x1 build.  In the last few shots I've been rounding out the 3x8 sport touring configuration.  Part of the rear end set up was to enable a quick change, and I did the quick change against the clock last night.  In under 5 minutes I had it switched from 3x8 to 3x1.  I had also switched out the crankset to a very slightly different gear range: a 94mm BCD Ritchey crankset let me run 22/34/46 rings, instead of the 24/36/46 of the 110 BCD Ritchey crankset that had been there.  Whether that difference was critical for my ride today is debatable.  What is certain is that the 22x18, 31-inch gear was welcome.  

Even though I only had to shift like 5 times all day, this front end shifting is totally liquid, and while riding each gear rode silently like a single speed.  The White Industries ENO freewheel may be the best sounding freewheel ever (among freewheels that make a sound).  

I picked this day for my June summit because the temperatures swung low after our first hot-snap.  It was low 50s to mid 60s all morning, and maybe peeked into the 70s in the lowlands of Walnut Creek.  I took BART from home to the shadow of Mount Diablo, cutting the mileage down to ~52 miles and 4950 ft of climbing.  The Romulus climbed and descended like an absolute champ.  I am extremely proud of my rack/bag/fender integration, and the handling even with a front load was great.  I was shocked at how well my knobby 700x26 Gravel Kings rode.  By looking at them it would be natural to assume they'd stink, but they were great.  After my summit I swung by Riv HQ and got the Will stamp of approval.   

Pics prove it:

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53778303336/in/dateposted/

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53778627464/in/album-72177720313832831/

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53778626719/in/album-72177720313832831/

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53778303561/in/dateposted/

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[tio ryan]

That's a lovely setup, Bill! It's reassuring to know the 3x1 setup works well. 

After 6 months with my Platypus, I find myself lusting after a single-speed Riv for my daily commutes. I recently reached out to ensure I didn't miss the pre-sale for the Roaduno. I was informed the Roaduno pre-sale will be taking place two weeks from now, Jun 27th. Now I find myself wondering what colors will be offered :) 

Tio "99.9% getting one even if it's the same color as my Platypus" Ryan 

[Bill Lindsay]

Presale at the end of June!  Exciting.  That'll be fun to see the builds start coming.

BL in EC

[tio ryan]

Thanks Michael! I must have missed that when I got unsubscribed from the email list. Assuming it's the mustard and silver from those Blue Lug images, this will be a tough choice. 

Tio "mustard-curious" Ryan 

On Thursday, June 13, 2024 at 12:42:01 PM UTC-4 Michael Connors wrote:

From the 4/26 email newsletter-

The Roaduno colors that will be available are: Silver, Purple, and Mustard. Silver will sell out first, but blessed be the flexible who get whichever is available in their size; they all look good, and keep in mind that our photos never do the colors justice. Mustard is the most toned down but it has a little sparkle in the sun and looks fantastic once it's dusty and well used. It would be nuts to expect everybody to like Purple, but if you could see it in person I'm sure we could convince everybody who's on or even near the fence to get one.

[tio ryan]

Highly anticipated Roaduno update in this weeks newsletter!

 

[06/14/2024 - Sams are here, and Roadunos are next]

[Richard Rose]

Highly anticipated indeed. Sadly(?) I am out & not because of my disappointment that they missed the target price of $2,100.00. One could scoff a bit over the $2,400.00 for the complete + $250.00 for shipping. But I will remain a fascinated observer for now based solely on need - or lack thereof. I have finally been able to ride my Gus on singletrack some more & realize all of my road riding exists primarily to keep me in shape for mountain biking. My Clem fills that need in spades. Cannot wait to see the Roaduno’s though & will likely get sweaty palms every time a used one comes up for sale.:) If I was intent on getting one I would suffer paralysis from analysis big time  - Mustard or Silver?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 15, 2024, at 9:12 AM, tio ryan <rdo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Highly anticipated Roaduno update in this weeks newsletter!

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[Patrick Moore]

I linked to the site and see that Riv still offers the Phil DOS FW in 17/19 and 20/22: I'd thought that these were no longer made. Good to know that they are still available, if quite expensive. Me, I keep an eye on them for the future, but for now I'm good with a lifetime supply of 17/19 Dingle fixed cogs.

As to $2400 + shipping for a complete Roaduno: that seems pretty reasonable to me, given Grant's superlative designs and the quality (I assume, judging from the Rivs I've owned). From a very casual Google search: the single drop-barred single speed road bike I saw on the Performance site is 1,600 and that's mass produced from aluminum with no pedals and Joytech hubs.

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When thou didst not, savage, know thine own meaning,

But wouldst gabble like a thing most brutish,

I endowed thy purposes with words that made them known.

[Bill Lindsay]

Patrick Moore translation services ACTIVATE.

When Patrick Moore says: "Phil DOS FW in 17/19 and 20/22"

He means: "White Industries DOS ENO freewheel in 17/19 and 20/22"

Patrick Moore translation services TERMINATE

"I'd thought that these were no longer made"

No, it's just the 16/19 that is no longer made.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Patrick Moore]

Correction understood; thanks.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/bee7cd62-f297-4bde-b7d6-34d7504a0256n%40googlegroups.com.

[P W]

A silver 58 is coming my way through my local bike shop.

And I can’t wait.

For the first time I think ever, I have the entire build ready to go before a bike even arrives.

P. W.

~

(917) 514-2207

~

On Jun 16, 2024, at 7:15 PM, tio ryan <rdo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Taking the price into consideration, I've got a decision to make... 

tio "wombat-curious" ryan 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/61aa4473-8ef5-4d5d-8e43-cbcff13dd0f8n%40googlegroups.com.