Anyone run 650b on a Sam Hillborne?

[Brenton Eastman]

Hi all, I have a Sam Hillborne without canti posts. I was considering trying 650b hoops to get some even beefier tires on the bike. Has anyone seen it done? Pics?

[JohnS]

Hello,

I have not tried a 650B conversion for a Sam, but I did on my Surly Pacer. I didn't like how much lower the bb/crank was, so it's going back to 700c. I have a pair of Paul Racers,  long reach center pull brakes in silver, which I would be willing to sell. Let me know if you would be interested in them.

JohnS

[Bill Lindsay]

Generally speaking, switching from 700c to 650B on any cantilever-equipped bike is considered a very bad idea, with two exceptions:

1. you have a poorly placed set of canti-posts so that they manage to work OK

2. you have a frame builder remove and attach your canti posts in the right place for 650B

If your canti posts are in the right place for 700c, you need to run your brake pads a full 19mm lower to hit 650B rims.  That's practically even with the pivot itself and the leverage just doesn't work well at all

Generally speaking, switch from 700c to 650B on any 700c bike with large BB drop is considered a risky maneuver, with two exceptions:

1. you don't mind a really low BB and pedal strike doesn't concern you

2. you are going to MUCH wider 650B tires, so that the resulting BB height may be close

On disc-brake bikes, swapping from 700xTHIC to 650xTHICCC is pretty common.  I've got a few bikes in my stable that are intended for that kind of flexibility.  My cantilever-Sam is not one of those bikes.  700x38 + fenders and it's perfect.  For beefier tires, I grab one of my machines that has beefier tires  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Erik Wright]

I have a 2014-ish sidepull Sam Hillborne that I picked up off this list in spring 2018. The bike came to me with Paul Racers and I rode tires as big as 700x44. After seeing Ultraromance's 650b conversion on his Sam H, I thought I'd give that configuration a go (because there's just something about fat knobby tires on a road bike that get's me goin').

In early 2019 I had a local framebuilder add canti posts at 650b placement for about $150. Nervous about committing to 650b on this bike because of the reasons Bill and others mention (bb drop, pedal strike, etc), I purchased Paul Motolites so I could swap between 700c and 650b if/when needed. I managed to squeeze in 27.5x2.1" Schwalbe Thunderburts with very little clearance, but went on a few bikepacking trips with this setup. I've since added a Crust Evasion to my lineup (which also has two wheelsets, *facepalm*) and have made my Sam H a dedicated 700c bike... for now.

I remember Blahgs from 1-2 years back where Roman @ Riv did the same thing with his Sam H. One Blahg showed him dimpling his chainstays so he could more easily squeeze a 2.1" tire in there. To this day I'm still waiting for a feature of that bike on a Blahg or a newsletter, but it looks like that day may never come.

Regarding pedal strike- yeah, there was some, but I have a pretty high tolerance for it so didn't really notice a huge difference. The trails around here are pretty rocky and rooty so if I'm riding my SamH on trails, there's going to be pedal strike no matter what I do. The other thing people often ask is about mechanical advantage with the Motolites. I mean, sure, there's probably better stopping power with 650b wheels/pad placement, but my bike stops just fine with the pads adjusted for 700c.

Overall the 650b conversion was a fun project and adds to my ability to tinker with that bike- BUT, not night & day to the point where I'd wholeheartedly recommend.

Erik, Philly

[Joe Bernard]

The limiter here is going to be finding caliper brakes that will reach. Caliper-Sams already start with long-reach Tektro R559 or equivalent, I'm not sure even Paul Racers will reach down to 650B rims. 

Joe Bernard

On Saturday, October 2, 2021 at 10:08:08 AM UTC-7 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

[David Person]

I have R559s on my 700c Hillborne and I could drop the brake pad down about 12mm more than it is.  You would need 19mm to run a 650b rim, if I did the math correctly (622 - 584) / 2 = 19mm.  The options for sidepull calipers with more than 73mm of reach are very limited.

[Ryan Stanis]

A local rider, who was present at our weekly coffee outside meet up this morning, has a sidepull sam that they had canti posts added at the proper height for 650b. They’re currently running the bike with Paul motolites (which have a considerable range of adjustment) and 700c wheels. A funny way to end back up at 700c, but now with options!

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[maxcr]

Hey Erick,

What brake levers do you use to run motolites on a dropbar?

Thanks

Max

[Erik Wright]

I used the Tektro RL520 when I had drop bars on there. I have no complaints about the braking or lever feel or anything like that. I was always curious about the Dia-Compe 287 because it seems to be the list's consensus on best v-brake drop bar lever, but never took the plunge.

Erik, Philly

[maxcr]

Thanks Erik! (and apologies for the typo in my earlier post)

Two more questions for the group:

1) I just got a used pair of Paul Motolites off craigslist - what should be included in the box? Just want to make sure I get all the parts!
2) I read in other forums that the RL520 are better than the Dia-Compe. Erik said the consensus here was the opposite. I couldn't find any threads comparing them here and they both seem to be ok - any strong opinions on one over the other?

Thanks

Max

[Joe Bernard]

Here's the exploded diagram from the Paul site. Make sure you have the pivot bushings, Pauls don't slide onto the canti studs as one piece like most canti/v-brakes you're familiar with. Those springs and adjusters are separate and go sailing across the room, too. Ask me how I know these things! 😂

[Joe Bernard]

[maxcr]

Thank you Joe, helpful as always 

Max

[maxcr]

Hey Joe,

Thank you again, I received the brakes with 3 missing pivot bushings... if it wasn't for you I wouldn't have known. The seller found them still attached to the studs and they're on their way to me.

Max