New frame day: Charlie H Gallop and a weight weenie Riv build status

[Bill Lindsay]

I picked up my 57 Gallop frame today.  I told Will and Roman about my weight weenie build intentions, and they were entertained.  Will said he doubted I could get it into the 19-pound range, and I told him it hinged on the claimed frame weight on the Gallop page.  He didn't remember that there is/was a weight claim on there.  The quote is:

"A 57cm frame weights about 4.8lb. That's plenty light."

I didn't actually expect it to be quite that light, given that my Roadeo frame weighed in at almost exactly that weight.  My guess for the fork weight was 970g.  I did my weigh in and the fork came in light at 930g with the (practically weightless) crown race.  The frame though was a full 2528g with the headset cups still pressed in.  That's about a half-pound heavier than the claim on the webpage.  That's also about 1/4 pound lighter than my RoadUno frame, and about 3/4 pound heavier than my Roadeo frame.  

That actual weight makes my sub-20 pound target a little harder.  It may end up being more like 20-1/4 pounds.  We'll see if I can make up that 115 grams elsewhere.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[nlerner]

Bill, I think you'll need to skip water bottles and cages and go with a Camelback.

Neal Lerner

Brookline MA

[Bill Lindsay]

It's a single Ti King Cage as it is.  28 grams.  Bike weigh-ins never include bottles.  :-). 

BL in EC

[Max S]

Congrats! 

My 57 has a fully 1 kg fork, 2 kg frame. Built up into 25 lbs with a heavy Salsa stem (130 mm) and swept back bar, Kalloy post, Brompton saddle, 32* CXP33xDA wheels with 40 mm Conti “basketball” tires with butyl tubes — an upgrade from a normal Riv build, but nothing extraordinary.

I can raid my other, unused parts bin and throw on a Ti stem with a very short bolt, American Classic post, Berk saddle, some carbon tubulars with 36 mm Strada Bianca tubeless tubulars… That could well get it under 20 lbs. Hmmm… 

- Max “ my biggest issue is the weather… :-( “ in A2

[Piaw Na]

The frame though was a full 2528g with the headset cups still pressed in.  That's about a half-pound heavier than the claim on the webpage.  That's also about 1/4 pound lighter than my RoadUno frame, and about 3/4 pound heavier than my Roadeo frame.  

Dang that's a boat anchor! The Ritchey Montebello by contrast is 2000g, and that's partly because it has to be overbuilt because of disc brakes. (my wife's Ritchey RoadLogic Rim Brake frame was 1640g, almost 2 pounds lighter though it was a 51cm, so a smaller frame). I remember weighing my 54cm Roadini frame and fork and it was 7.1 pounds (3220g) assuming the fork is also 930g, that means my frame was 2290g. Guess the Gallop isn't really made lighter than the Roadini. 

[Bill Lindsay]

"Dang that's a boat anchor!"

In truth, it is not a boat anchor.  Neither is your Roadini.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[David Hays]

I’m just curious Bill: as we enter weight weenie deliberations, what is excluded? Pedals? Saddles?…

Thanks.

David Hays

Williamsville, New York

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[Bill Lindsay]

David asked: "as we enter weight weenie deliberations, what is excluded? Pedals? Saddles?…"

I guess that depends on what exactly you mean by "we".  If "we" includes David Hays from Williamsville, New York, then by all means enumerate the stuff you want to exclude in the weight weenie build you are currently working on.  I'm also not clear on what is meant by "deliberations". It sounds like somebody is going to approve or disapprove of my build.  If "we" is code for "Bill Lindsay", and "deliberations" is code for "disclosure" then I'll happily respond to the rules I apply to my weight weenie build(s):

Pedals?  Pedals are absolutely INcluded when I weigh in.  For this particular build I am going to take the liberty of excluding several things:  a pump, a water bottle, a bell, a cyclometer, any reflective items, lighting, and a repair kit.  I don't always exclude those items, but this time I will.  

Saddles?  The use of the plural here again makes it sound like there are many of us submitting our builds.  If it is still just focused on me, then my build will have only one saddle, and my weigh-in will include that singular saddle (but it's insanely light).  :-)

BL in EC

[Piaw Na]

On Tuesday, December 17, 2024 at 10:54:07 AM UTC-8 David Hays wrote:

I’m just curious Bill: as we enter weight weenie deliberations, what is excluded? Pedals? Saddles?…

If you want to compare to OEM website published specs, it's no pedals, but yes saddle. (No pumps or bottle cages either) 

[Bill Lindsay]

Riv has updated the Gallop page to reflect the weight that I measured.  Wink!

BL in EC

[David Hays]

Not sure of your issue…

I was just wondering as I make my builds and look to see what choices to make, how everyone weighs a bike.

Dvid Hays

Williamsville, New York

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[Bill Lindsay]

I wouldn't call it an issue.  I was just that I was trying to understand the specifics of your question.  It seemed you were asking just me, but now I understand you are taking a poll, asking everybody to chime in on how they weigh their bikes.  My impression of the RBW Group is that most people would respond "I don't weigh my bike".  

BL in EC

[David Hays]

Sorry for the confusion.

I have see people showing bikes without pedals and indicating the weight of the bike.

David

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[Bill Lindsay]

I will go out on a limb and predict that VERY few posts on the RBW Group are of people showing off their lightweight Riv build without pedals.  Wink!  I think maybe the Roadeo product page might say how Mark A built a Roadeo at 18.5 pounds without pedals, but that's about it.  

BL in EC

[J J]

Bill, it's fun to watch your rational and systematic builds and weight limiting considerations. 

I suspect you're right that most RBW Group members don't weight their bikes. I never have until just a minute ago, when I weighed my most recent project, a size 58 Hunqapillar, out of curiosity.

The Hunq came in at 31.8 pounds. That was less than I expected, having paid no attention at all toward limiting weight (i.e., it has front and rear Nitto racks, Cliffhanger wheels, 700c X 50 tires, Boscomoose, triple crankset, Pletscher kickstand, fenders, Lambda pedals, etc.). I corroborated the weight with a second luggage scale. 

[P W]

Let’s see it!

Sounds perfect.

P. W.

~

(917) 514-2207

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On Dec 17, 2024, at 1:59 PM, J J <junes...@gmail.com> wrote:

Bill, it's fun to watch your rational and systematic builds and weight limiting considerations. 

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[Jonas]

Hi Bill, 

thanks for your efforts and have fun with the built. Without considering the claim Riv made on their page, this is still what I would have expected, maybe 100-200g more, but that's ok. The frame has a kickstand plate, a lot of eyelets, a pump peg, pretty lugs and a longer top tube with that design. Are the tubing specs known? I expect them to be .8 - .6 or even .9 - .6 and I guess that they used the BB shell and headtube from other frames, which might be overbuilt a bit, too. 

These additional 500g won't negatively influence the ride qualities compared to a classic 2kg road steel frame. Even ambitious road cyclists with a sub 20 BMI could use this as an All Road training bike or as a long distance rig. I would definitely like to test ride this with its special geometry (relatively slack HTA and this rando fork design). How does it steer and behave compared to a rando low trail design like a Crust LB?

Best, J

[Bill Lindsay]

As you say, 500g doesn't make a bit of difference.  For me, a light build is exactly what it is: a light build.  Some people think there is some other point to a light build.  Some people think a light build is a fast build.  Those people are correct, but the exchange rate is 1MPH per 12 pounds of bike weight.  In other words a lighter bike is faster, but only a teeny tiny bit faster.  Others think the point of a light build is one of "feel" or "fun".  They say they enjoy "throwing the bike around" and a lighter bike feels more fun to throw around.  I'm neither of those people.  I just like doing light builds, to show they can be done, even on a Rivendell.  That's the end of it.  After I've done a build I just enjoy my bike.  

The unique thing about the Gallop in my stable is that it's a purpose-built flat-bar road bike.  It is too long for a drop bar build, and is long enough to get a good athletic fit with a flat bar.  My expectation is it won't "compare" with my Lightning Bolt.  It will complement my Lightning Bolt.  Both will have a welcome slot in my stable, because they are different and are what they are.  

I don't have any ride reporting to do because I put the chainring bolts on my Christmas List and I expect my son to give them to me for Christmas.  No chainring bolts, no drivetrain.  No drivetrain, no riding.  Hopefully around New Years I can do a build reveal and a ride report.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

Christmas is past, and my son did in fact get me my chainring bolts for Christmas.  Today it won't be raining in the Bay Area, so I'm riding today.  Tomorrow, Sunday the 29th it is supposed to be raining hard all day so that's when I'll wrap up the Gallop build, most likely.  Today's teaser is that my fully tuned brake calipers are ready to go.  

Rivendell sells both the Tektro and the Yokozuna variants of long reach caliper brakes.  I had the Tektro model on-hand and that was going to go onto my Gallop build, but my complete RoadUno came with the Yokozunas, so I pulled them off and weighed them.  Apples to apples, the Yokozunas are about 20g lighter and they are quite a bit cheaper.  So I "upgraded" my RoadUno by installing the more expensive Tektro on that bike, and reinforced the weight weenie Riv theme to the Gallop.  I did three "tuning" operations on the Yokozuna brakes.  

1. I have the very fancy Velo Orange Grand Cru side pulls on a road bike.  They feature feather light aluminum recessed allen bolts with a TORX head.  I swapped those out for steel and deployed the alloy bolts on the Yokozunas..  

2. I bought some titanium M6 cable anchor bolts, and swapped those out

3. I swapped out the stock pads for Grant-approved KoolStop E-Bike inserts, which are a few grams lighter.  

My fully tuned but unassailably Rivish brakes are now 333g for both calipers.  The $200 Velo Orange Grand Cru, mentioned above, have a claimed weight of 355g for both calipers but are merely mid-reach.  Contemporary Shimano Ultegra, also about $200, are also in the 360g vicinity and are short-reach.  Paul Racers, which are more in the $400 range, may be a couple grams lighter.  (They have a claimed weight of 157g per caliper)

Onward!

BL in EC