Grant's new Big Clem

[RichS]

In Will's latest news update Grant talks about his newest Clem. In it he describes the "really good, great, best shifting" with his wide-spaced 7 speed cassette / 10 speed chain combination. That makes me curious how much the Nexave Rapid Rise derailer might influence the shifting? Especially from one who has never used a narrow chain on his 7 and 8 speed cassettes with Deore LX derailers.

Best,

Rich in ATL

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

I think it was that alternate cable routing at the derailleur which gave it that extra "really good, great, best shifting". Hopefully this leads to many more huge bikes in the future. 

Would love to be in between sizes

-Kai

[Garth]

Consider the source Rich ... always consider the source !  Grant LOVES rapid rise shifting, so I'd expect him to say only glowing things about whatever the setup may be. He's also a salesman of course ! As for the narrow chain , considering how the cog arrangements are engineered for effortless moving from cog to cog, a narrower chain isn't going to effect that, especially with friction. I've used a 9-speed chain on my 7-speed Sachs and I didn't notice any difference to speak of. At first you might be tempted to feel for every little nuance of difference but after a while you forget all that in the pulse of the ride.

The minute and seemingly restrictive difference in all of the indexed drivetrains is because of just that, the indexing. For friction use as long as the cable pull is the same the chain doesn't know or care what's labelled as what as long as it has some teeth to grab hold of !  That's all...... "gimme some teeth to grab !"  If the chain doesn't care neither should we !

On Saturday, June 4, 2022 at 12:38:35 PM UTC-4 RichS wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

Theoretically - I haven't tried it - you should get less clatter when the chain lands kinda between cogs with a narrow chain on a wider-spaced cassette. So that would make an improved friction shifting experience.*

*This is assuming the Riv 7 uses old 7-speed spacing. The product copy for this thing is not clear on it.  

[Garth]

It's 7-speed spacing Joe. I can tell from the side view, and all 7-speed cassettes in general on 8-10sp bodies require a 4mm spacer, hence why those keyed spacers are made by Problem Solvers, for example, among many.

Also, S-Ride's 7-speed cassettes are configured by leaving off one cog from their existing 8-speed versions. 

For example, their 11-42 8sp cassette has 11,13,16,20,24,30,36,42 cogs. From this one cassette they leave off a high or low end cog to arrive at their 7sp 13-42 and 11-36. The 7sp 13-34 is their 8sp 11-34 minus the 11. 

https://www.s-ridebike.com/uploads/1/3/8/0/13808747/cassette-tablerev4_orig.jpg

Yes, the table doesn't show the Riv versions based on the 8sp 11-42 and 11-34. Riv must have asked to have it reconfigured from S-Ride. No new parts needed to be made of course, just leaving off one cog high or low and presto magico !  

Myself I've been riding a 9sp 12-36 on my Bombadil with a triple crank and only use the seven cog 14-32 portion. The innermost cog represent to me, what's wonky with the whole idea of cassette hubs when they went from 7sp bodies to 8, the further you go to the hub center the greater the chain angle. That cog is also closer to the spokes. Even with a 45-46mm chainline crank in the middle ring the large ring feels wonky, to me at least. Wider chainlines obviously only add to that.  So rather than remove the cog I simply "let" the 36 be a spoke guard, so to speak and adjust the RD to the 32. I'm fluent in "front derailleur" so shifting up and down rings is toally natural and effortless.

Something has to give with hub design, they can't keep going towards the center, and while they may make chains even more narrow, you're still trying to bail out a sinking ship. Stuff that works like 7-speed hubs needn't be tossed aside in the name of "progress" or "innovation" as those are just sales pitches to get you toss perfectly good working parts. In perfection there is no "progress" ! That why Perfect is Perfect and what's not is not... "never shall the two meet".