Recumbent help for Dad, un-Rivy post

[Jeffery S]

My Dad and I talked last night and when asking him what he is up to he said, "making sure the couch isn't going anywhere." That is kind of what I want to hear when it comes to pandemic health, but later he said he wants help finding a recumbent. I have no idea where to start.

He will be 68 next month, has had knee replacement on both knees more than once (injuries from being a former college football lineman), walks with a cane and is overweight – knowingly and self conscious of it. Not trying to call him out or rag on him, or anyone in a similar situation. I love him all the same and am really happy he wants to get out and ride. He just needs a bike that will work with what he's working with.

Getting in and out of a chair for him isn't pretty, so I'm not sure a two wheel recumbent is the way to go. Maybe a trike for balance? Or an upright trike? This one looks ok, it's an ebike, but really not sure what to look for: https://hasebikes.com/98-1-Recumbent-Bike-LEPUS-STEPS.html

Is there anything someone can suggest? From searching the RBW group I see some mention of recumbents, but this is probably not the right list to check out. Is there a better place to look that the googler isn't leading me to?

The Riv owner in me thinks he should get a Clem L instead of a recumbent because he already knows how to ride this style of two wheeler. I have an old Schwinn step through in the garage I'm bringing him to see if that will be a solution before dropping some dough on a new bike/trike/whatever.

Here's my Sam to make this a little more Rivy. Thanks in advance for the help.

[ANDREW ERMAN]

A delta trike might work.  Stable and easier to get into and out of than a tadpole trike.   You may want to look at Look at Greenspeed and Hase 

Good luck.  I hope you find something that works for your dad.  

Best, Andy

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4cff1f8d-0cf7-4f98-b80f-2929691ff646%40googlegroups.com.

[Jack K]

Hey Jeffery,

Everyone starts somewhere, good on dad for wanting to get off the couch! Other than "to ride" does dad have thoughts about where he'd like to ride (offroad, MUPs, country roads, suburban neighborhood, etc...), how far, budget, eventual goals if the bike works out? Recumbent and trike designs are many and diverse, with lots of trade-offs to consider in the various designs. A great source for recumbent info is the Bent Rider OnLine forum (http://www.bentrideronline.com). Be prepared for extremely strong and often contradictory opinions, but there's also plenty of knowledge and experience there.

If there's an LBS within driving range that carries recumbents/trikes it'd likely be worth a trip there to see, sit on and perhaps test ride some options. If no recumbent shop nearby then maybe a look at your local Craigslist for some used recumbents to check out. The market for used recumbents is pretty close to nonexistent, so there are some real bargains out there on really nice machines.

According to shop owners the majority of recumbents sold now have three wheels rather than two. If balance is an issue then a trike may be the best option, though they are less efficient, difficult to transport and expensive. Trikes will range from very low-slung speed machines to "toodle around the neighborhood" machines. Most trikes are "tadpole" designs (two wheels in front) these days, rather delta (two wheels in back), but both are available. The first 15 seconds of this video gives an inkling of one reason tadpole trikes have become the dominant design:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8

I recently switched recumbents to a front wheel drive (FWD) moving bottom bracket (MBB) mid-racer recumbent by Cruzbike and so far it's been a fun, though challenging, machine. This thing:

Cruzbike makes an easy to ride cruiser that may be appropriate, the T50. It's available with factory installed electric assist, if desired; i.e.

Bacchetta is another popular recumbent option in the U.S. -- perhaps the most popular recumbent option in the U.S. They offer a wide array of designs depending on your needs and budget.

Just a few thoughts... 

Cheers,

-Jack

[Joe Bernard]

The short answer is that Hase electric sounds perfect for his needs if he's willing to spend the money. But I agree that trying a non-electric step-thru is a good idea first to see if he's happy getting some exercise on a regular bike. In spite of not knowing much about recumbents you seem to already know the parameters pretty well.

[Deacon Patrick]

I rode a Greenspeed trike for quite a few years and loved it ... on smooth roads. Tadpole trikes are much more stable for cornering than delta, but they are like getting in and out of a low to the ground race car. Presuming more sedate riding (not cornering at speed etc.), a delta trike is much easier on/off. I'd recommend talking with Angletech. https://cycledifferent.com/ to learn what the best options are.

As an alternative, how would your dad do walking more? Are those barriers easier to address than trike barriers?

With abandon,

Patrick

[Joe Bernard]

Adding to DP's admonition about low trikes (had one, NOT fun to get in and out of), recumbents in general aren't awesome for bad knees on hills without a motor. Your dad really might be better off tooling around on a Clem L to burn some calories.

[Jack K]

I'm a bit baffled how we were able to identify the perfect type/brand/model of recumbent for Jeffery's dad, when so little about Jeffery's dad's cycling needs, wants and ambitions were stated. Maybe gobsmacked would be a better description than "baffled". In any case, I'd strongly suggest a road trip to a recumbent shop or browsing Craigslist to find some designs to try. Anything else is mere guesswork, at best, based on incomplete information.

Delta trikes fell out of favor in part because the design is inherently less stable than a similar capability tadpole design. Can the stability of a delta design be increased? Sure, but the more stable design will trade off other qualities. In particular, a well designed stable delta is going to give up significantly on sportiness and fun in the ride quality. All sporty trikes I know of are tadpole design, but not all tadpole design trikes are targeted at sporty riding with low-slung, extremely reclined seats. Here's one example of a more relaxed tadpole: http://www.ti-trikes.com/  BTW, I don't have a dog in this race, and don't even care for trikes myself, but wanted to clear up a misconception.

I'm also perplexed by the statement, "recumbents in general aren't awesome for bad knees on hills without a motor." Can you explain further? Recumbents generally don't climb well (quickly) because they're usually heavier and the rider can't stand to mash the pedals to get over a steep section. The only option is to "sit and spin", which is why recumbents usually use lower gearing than upright bikes and, importantly, why they can be easier on knees than a stand and mash geared upright bike. Certainly the fit requirements for any particular recumbent, trike or bike, need to be addressed by the user or his bike shop, which they often aren't. For example, many people find spinning lower gears the way to go on a recumbent and many of those folks find it easier to spin low gears with crank arms that are considerably shorter than they're used to on an upright bike. I always preferred 170mm's on upright road bikes, but even 165's were clumsy when riding recumbent. I'm currently riding 152 and 155mm arms, but lots of recumbent folks are riding much shorter than that (140mm or even shorter) to foster high RPM, low oomph, easy on the knees pedaling. I'd refer anyone interested in this topic to the many discussions on Bent Rider OnLine, where the topic is discussed more than you'd likely care to read.

-Jack K.

[Joe Bernard]

You can be baffled all you want, it's an opinion on an opinion forum to a post asking for an opinion. I was into 'bents for a few years and found them to be quite a drag on climbs, and I extrapolate that out to an overweight fellow with bad knees probably not being thrilled with the experience. If he gets a motor then all that is out the window. At any rate it's an opinion on a topic that really boils down to "ride as many as you can and pick what works for you", which is what Bentrider Online is going to tell him.

[ANDREW ERMAN]

I agree with Joe.  If your Dad is not in great shape, a motor could be a great bridge.  You can also check out Electric Bike Review.  They have a category for electric trikes and some are upright.  

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:40 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

You can be baffled all you want, it's an opinion on an opinion forum to a post asking for an opinion. I was into 'bents for a few years and found them to be quite a drag on climbs, and I extrapolate that out to an overweight fellow with bad knees probably not being thrilled with the experience. If he gets a motor then all that is out the window. At any rate it's an opinion on a topic that really boils down to "ride as many as you can and pick what works for you", which is what Bentrider Online is going to tell him.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/619adaa6-9f8b-4615-9310-4401be01aa39%40googlegroups.com.

[Jeffery Shepherd]

Thank you for the suggestions and thorough responses. If he knew, my Dad would be embarrassed, and thankful that all of you chimed in to help.

He is really only going to ride around the neighborhood and a wheat field that has a gravel path running through. He has been walking more in the last couple months, but is frustrated that he needs to stop to rest a lot. Lack of mobility seems to be the driver. He's not going long distance any time soon and I still don't know if a recumbent will be right for him. I just want him to be safe and comfortable. Being comfortable is what I hope will help him feel confident riding around the neighborhood. We'll do some longer rides later if he can get over this hump. 

You have given me a lot to look at in only a short day. All I know about recumbents is how fast they flew by me on the downhills of Iowa when I did RAGBRAI years ago. One of the guys I talked to said he'd never ride a diamond frame again. He said "so areo" – made me laugh. Thanks for teaching me about delta and tadpole, I would have never thought about the differences.

The delta style would probably be better for his stability getting in and out. I doubt he'll hit more than 5-10mph and will let him know Jeremy Clarkson highlighted the instability of the delta design. Classic episode.

The Greenspeed Anura looks like it may fit the bill, but that's just the online look. My LBS is a co-op, not really a dealer of new bikes. The mechanic class instructor said she would ask her sales guy. It looks like there is an Angletech dealer a few hours away.

Thank you all again. Any more thoughts/suggestions/opinions are appreciated.

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/UBNzZ5_dRts/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAPhA659OqCMeaDwZxJp6bTfbpgXMxuG7zahAyz62xesB4kmefw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Andrew Erman]

Jeffrey,

I think the Greenspeed comes with a differential that powers both back wheels - I like that idea better than powering one back wheel only.  I think the Hase delta has that as an option.

I am wishing your dad mobility and good health.

Andy

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAA34uFZj60ggPEPiZhwCJEFoxdrCqxgt%2BfXbrQDT-ibL54P61A%40mail.gmail.com.

[Jack K]

Joe Bernard wrote:

You can be baffled all you want,

Thanks for allowing me that leeway Joe, as I continue to not understand the point of your most recent post.

 

it's an opinion on an opinion forum to a post asking for an opinion.

Perhaps this is part of the reason we're not understanding each other very well, I interpreted Jeffrey's post as a request for information. Opinion can be informative, but it should be presented as opinion rather than as a statement of fact.

 

I was into 'bents for a few years and found them to be quite a drag on climbs, and I extrapolate that out to an overweight fellow with bad knees probably not being thrilled with the experience.

As I wrote earlier (and provided some reasons for), it's common for people to have more difficulty climbing on a bent, whether it has 2 or 3 wheels. Unless you're only talking about single speed bents I don't understand why you would "extrapolate that out to an overweight fellow with bad knees probably not being thrilled with the experience." Can you explain further? All my bikes have multigear drivetrains, so it's possible to shift into a lower gear when climbing a hill. A trike will be stable no matter how slow it's going, so it can be geared down much, much lower than a two wheeled bike. If one is willing to climb hills at slow speed then a trike can get a rider with "bad knees" up a hill with less knee stress (if that means force transferred through the knee) than any two wheeled recumbent or upright bike. You just have to be willing to twiddle away at a comfortable cadence while doing only 2 mph on the climb. This kind of "easy on the knees" gearing isn't possible on a two wheeled velocipede, whether one sits on the velocipede upright or recumbent.

If he gets a motor then all that is out the window. At any rate it's an opinion on a topic that really boils down to "ride as many as you can and pick what works for you", which is what Bentrider Online is going to tell him.

Yes, a motor may be a good option, which is why I also mentioned it. Yes, "ride as many as you can and pick what works for you" is a great idea, which is why I suggested it. Suggesting a particular type, brand and model based on very incomplete information is a recipe for disappointment, if not disaster.

-Jack K.

[Joe Bernard]

I gave a short opinion because this isn't a recumbent forum and I know he can get a vast amount of information at Bentrider Online and is no doubt already reading it. I did not give a specific model recommendation, I merely agreed with the OP that the Base delta trike with a motor is a very good choice for the rider he described. There aren't a ton of deltas to choose from and Hase is hard to beat in that segment. Alternatively he could get a lower tadpole but - as I mentioned - they can be a bear to get in and out of and I'm not sure the rider's knees are going to appreciate it. We need him on a bike or trike he'll ride, not avoid.

My comment about hills is one of those areas we can go round and round on forever, it's probably the biggest point of contention with 'bents and the true believes will tell you it's not a big deal. I think it's a big deal and said so, I'm not in the habit of saying "I think" before every opinion I give on a forum where I'm clearly stating opinions. Nobody is required to agree with me.

At any rate a Clem L is easy to get on and off and climbs well. I DON'T THINK this fellow needs a recumbent for the riding he wants to do.

[Joe Bernard]

*Hase delta trike

[Tim Rogers]

This appears to have been asked and answered some time ago, but in case you are still researching options take a look at Easy Racer's Tour Easy. It's no longer in production, but there are plenty of used ones around on eBay and Craiglist for a decent price. 

I'm 65 and own both a Clem L and a Tour Easy. I ride the Clem in the neighborhood and the Tour Easy on trails, including gravel. The Tour Easy is the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden; the back support, large seat cushion, and hand position add up to an incredibly comfortable and enjoyable ride. No butt, neck, or wrist pain, and you ride with your head up and can enjoy the scenery. 

I've attached a pic of mine so you can see what they look like. Rear wheel is 700c.