Clem Lotto

[Edwin W]

I am glad to hear the demand for Rivendell bikes is high. So high that most sizes sold out immediately when posting last time they opened them up to sales. So this time:

You buy a $50 "ticket."

They draw tickets out of a hat for the "winners," who have 24 hours to purchase a bike.

If someone doesn't buy, they pull another name out of a hat.

Sounds complicated and added work for the folks down at Riv.

How many people REALLY wanted a Riv and weren't able to get one at the end of the day?

Seems like overthinking to me, but I am living in the lap of luxury of owning two Rivs, so what do I know!

Whatever the process, good luck to Riv,

Edwin

[Joe Bernard]

I think it solves the "everybody click at once at noon then a bunch of people are pissed off" problem, but I guarantee - no matter how many times Will explains it - that someone is going to think they bought a $50 raffle ticket. Fun! 

Joe "ooh, a LimeOlive Clem I don't need..." Bernard

[Johnny Alien]

I mean it IS essentially a raffle ticket.  You buy a ticket and it gets randomly selected. The only difference is that you get a refund if you aren't selected. I think the idea on their side is all of the people that don't get the bike will maybe just keep the $50 in credit so that it leads to more sales.

[iamkeith]

In addition to the attemp to make it fair, I think the $50 is just "ernest money."  If they didn't ask for that,  there'd be untold numbers of people putting their names in the hat without a firm commitment to buy.  No point in wasting time on tire-kickers (or, worse, scalpers/speculators) when there are more than enough people out there who legitimately want a bike.  It all seems to be pretty reasonable to me.

[Jason Fuller]

I'm sure it's not intentional, but it's kind of funny to me that the way Riv sort of hypes up the drop of each frame several times over the weeks and days leading up to a sale, combined with talk of how few frames there are and how long it'll be before more come (no doubt because they're trying to set expectations), ends up I think being a massively successful sales tactic that does exactly what they appear to loath - sells frames extremely fast because people are buying opportunistically to some extent. It's now a rare and coveted opportunity to spend your money on a Rivendell, and that in itself is attractive. 

Anyway, I think the lottery system is pretty darn fair - it evens the playing field more than pretty much any other option. I know it's not the best method for me, who has the flexibility to be ready to purchase at the drop time and is pretty quick with a computer, as well as being reasonably well-connected on Riv stuff, but that's sort of the point isn't it? 

My preferred option would be the ability to pre-order - you might have to wait a long time but you know you're in the queue.  I know Riv doesn't like having this hanging over their heads but honestly, a deposit on a frameset that can be cancelled for store credit at any time, which has no guarantees on lead time at all but you will get your frame in the order the deposit was received, seems the best to me. Plus it gets them some money in the bank ahead of delivery date. 

[brendonoid]

As someone who has waited 3+ years for kickstarters etc, I'm with Jason on the preorder idea. 

I'd rather wait a really long time for something I will definitely get eventually.

The new way of having to follow the social medias and trying to get in on limited runs, etc is exhausting and puts me off buying stuff I want. I wouldn't want Riv going down that route.

[Shoji Takahashi]

I missed out on a Platypus frame. I had one in my cart and then it disappeared in the time it took to click purchase. 

I think the lottery system is more fair than the present. I would be happy to pre-order, but many places that do so also sellout very quickly. I guess the next iteration is a lottery ticket for a pre-sale... amazing what it's become. 

shoji

Arlington MA

[John A. Bennett]

As we have discovered, there's no perfect method these days. 
Pre-selling is still based on a specific number of frames/bikes.

That's how we have to order them: "100 of _____, please."

And when the pre-sale "sells out" and someone didn't know about

it, they're just as disappointed and frustrated as if they tried to click on

a link at High Noon along with everyone else who wanted ______.

We're hopeful that the lottery will relieve some of the stress.

Is it perfect? No. What is? (Besides Jimi Hendrix's cover of

Bob Dylan's "All Along the Watchtower," that is.)

As we have said before, this is not how we'd like it to be. And no,

it's not an intentional - or unintentional - marketing scheme. 

Sending emails and posting updates on Instagram about the 

sale of _______  in ____ days was our way of answering the concerns

of would-be buyers who said they didn't know about ______ going on 

sale, and had they known, they'd have....

We don't want to tie our customers to their phones or laptops, so we

try and give as much of a "heads-up" as possible about the upcoming

availability of ________.

That way, customers can mark their calendars, forget about it, and go for ride.

And hopefully, the lottery will help with that even more. 

Thank you for your patience, and suggestions. 

john(at)rivbike(dot)com

PS: Hey, have you seen our Instagram? 

https://www.instagram.com/rivbike/

[Hugh Smitham]

I'm with Jason on this. I would much prefer a pre-sale even if it meant waiting a year, knowing said ______ is on the horizon would be comforting.

John is right.there is no perfect scenario. Strange times we're living in.

I feel fortunate to have an Atlantis and would love an Appaloosa (as evidenced by my recent posts) but I'm on the outside looking in. The recent Appaloosas have come and gone, so just unintentionally bad timing on my part. The next shipment of Appaloosas probably won't be here until sometime in 2023.

Hugh

Los Angeles,CA

[Johnny Alien]

I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  When you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the year that it has taken they can move on to the next name.

[Max S]

Johnny Alien wrote:

I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  When you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the year that it has taken they can move on to the next name.

Agreed. What Riv is currently devising seems convoluted... But the approach seems to work for the company and, really, is not different from what advertising has done in the past and continues to do. 

I'm awash in bikes, but wanted to snag a Clem L in a warm color for my spouse. Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to sell out. Maybe later folks will start to auction off their "lottery tickets"?.. 

I am curious how well the supply chain is going to recover, and what it'll do to the demand and prices for bikes. Not that I'm selling or buying mine anytime soon, just curious. 

- Max "emotionally overly attached to certain tangible objects on two wheels" in A2

[John A. Bennett]

Good point, Johnny. We do that for our custom frames. 

For the stock frames, the list "sells out," and people are disappointed

that they didn't know about the pre-sale. 
It's not an issue with customs because each bike is made for the person

who is ordering it.

With stock frames, we order a specific number. That's usually as many as we can 

afford and the number that our frame builder feels they can safely promise,

based on supplies and their production calendar.

We'll try the lottery, and see how that goes. 

john(at)rivbike(dot)com

[Eric Marth]

Max, I could be wrong, confused or both but I just checked the Clem lotto ticket page I can add all color and size combos to my cart. 

[John A. Bennett]

>> Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to sell out. Maybe >> later folks will start to auction off their "lottery tickets"?.. 

Not to worry. The lottery tickets are NOT sold out, as of Thursday, October 7, at 11:49AM (PDST)

Get 'em here: https://www.rivbike.com/products/clem-smith-lotto-ticket-z?variant=40615872757871

Thanks! 

john(at)rivbike(dot)com

[Max S]

Aha... Thank you, John, for that note. Must have been a glitch. I just clicked on that link and was able to purchase. 

Winter is fast approaching here in MI, so we'll prob. have to pickle it until late Spring. 

- Max "mmmm.... pickles...." in A2

[Doug H.]

Well, I bought a lottery ticket for a Clem and now I wait. Not sure how I feel about this system but it does seem a more fair way to sell the limited amount of bikes. This may be the new normal for awhile until the cargo backlog clears up. I read somewhere that the cost per bike to ship by cargo ship has gone from $17 per bike to about $70 per bike in some cases. I don't know how accurate these figures are but I don't doubt the increase. Couple that with the increased demand and decreased supply coming out of factories and one can easily understand the price increases across the markets.

Anyway, I was texting Joe earlier today about my reservation about buying a step-through frame and he was saying he loves his custom with the low top tube. I looked at a few builds online including Grant's Clem L and they just look so nice. At 54 years old I will enjoy stepping through the frame instead of having to do a leg lift every time I ride. One other random thought...I wonder if the Platypus has lowered the demand for the Clem L?

Doug

[Joe Bernard]

And to plagiarize myself a bit from that convo, some of us older dudes carry a stigma about step-throughs/mixtes that anyone under 30 would consider baffling. In reality it's just a tube brazed down lower on another tube instead of up higher, and most modern road and mountain bikes have sloping toptubes anyway! As our Bicycle Belle Ding Ding Leah says, #toptubeswhoneedsem

I hope you get that Clem, Doug! 

Joe "didn't kick my droptube today" Bernard

[Doug H.]

I plan to put some knobby tires on it and take it on some single track as well as using it for errands and maybe an occasional commute. Clem Els seem to be good all-around bikes. I'd love to see some photos of people's Clem's set up for different uses, various tires, etc. Let's see your Clem L build!

Doug

[J Imler]

Clem L in East bay hills. Super fun trail riding.

[Doug H.]

Nice photo J. What tires are you using?

Doug

[El Sapo]

You think 30 year old men are going to select the women's version of a bike more often than a toad like me? Because they aren't stigmatized? I'll ride a pink Stumpjumper Team occasionally (called a "Barbie bike" by a little girl on the trail). My 30 something son and his friends are freaked out by it and would never ride it.   

Grant probably regrets putting men's and women's names on his bikes. 

[El Sapo]

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

Fantastic Stumpy! Plenty of fans of pink ones - especially the team. Yours looks mint/original. Here's more:

1985 Stumpjumper Review

A Legacy of Pink

Marty

[iamkeith]

Oh my god!!!  That Stumpy is my last remaining  personal holy grail dream bike that I could never find and probably don't need.  PLEASE keep me in mind if you ever want to get rid of it.  (Since it sounds like your kids dont want it.)  

Regarding the stigma of step-through bikes:  I suspect every male wrestles with it.  But I also believe that every enlightened person who rides long enough and is able to put function and logic and wisdom above  fashion and stereotype and insecurity will eventually "get it. " I do think that the younger someone is, the quicker they'll  be able to get there. Even if it's not immediate.  Not just because they're less fixated on gender roles than older generations, but because bike fashion is grooming them to accept low top tubes.  Think about Jones Spaceframes or pretty much any modern, carbon, full-suspension rig.  Those are macho bikes by anyone's standards. Wolbis Slugstone was a badass too.

Coincidentally and case in point, my son has one of the newest Stumpjumpers, an S-works, carbon, enduro bike. It's interesting.  The way specialized now sizes bikes like his is to make the standover and stack heights pretty much identical, regardless of frame size.  So the top tube is LOW. The only thing that changes is the effective top tube length, so any rider can opt for any frame size depending on ride characteristic preference, and then adjust to fit with stem and seatpost, etc.

But I derailed this thread, didn't  I....

[EricP]

Man, those Team Stumpies were definitely cool. Never did ride one. Back when they came out, I was buying a year out of date 1984 Stumpjumper frame with the longer stays and built it up. As a college kid with not much money that's the only way I could do it. Pretty sure it came with the bottom bracket and headset. Then when that got stolen out of my garage ended up replacing it with a 1983 Stumpjumper frame. Sadly also stolen from a locked garage. 

Either way, owning those bikes made it much easier for me in my dotage to go for a Clem low. In fact, my only regret is not getting one when they first came out. Well, and the fact that it will not fit on a regular bike rack. Have to buy one of the wheel tray versions. Not looking forward to it as don't really have the garage space. Oh well.

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

[Doug H.]

In today's bicycle world that would be a gravel bike. I remember seeing those bikes (not the pink one) at our local BMX tracks in late 70s early 80s. I think we called them cruisers but have no idea why. Ha.

Doug

Athens, GA

[Doug H.]

Eric,

Could you post a photo of your Clem L? I'm in the Lotto and like to see everyone's Clem builds.

Doug

[EricP]

Sure,

Here's side and front views. Did some small changes to the stock build. Kalloy Uno seatpost in black. Am very heavy and have found a black finish post usually grips a tiny bit better. Swapped shifters to "Riv style" inboard with a Shimano on a Paul thumbie for the rear and a rear SR set to friction for the right. Saddle is Terry and grips are Ergon.

[EricP]

Tried posting two photos. They were too big. Apologies to folks where these take up the whole screen.

Here's the bike from the front. Muted fall colors in the Twin Cities this week.

[Doug H.]

Nice looking bike Eric. The Clem can handle riders of all shapes and sizes and looks like the perfect Bicycle SUV. Albeit a safe and ecologically friendly one. :)

Doug

Athens, GA