Seen some Gus builds, no Susies yet....

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

After inviting a wicken over to cast some spells on my phone....I received that golden phone call from Will at Rivendell!

My Susie is getting ready to be packed up and shipped.  I added some odds and ends to the order but I was curious if anyone else on the list has received their Susie yet?

Any tips or tricks on the build that I should consider?

Cheers!!

-Alex in Rochester, NY where the weather has been dandy.

PS Happy early solstice everyone!

[Hetchins52]

I was notified via email from Mark Abele on Wednesday that my Susie was ready to be picked up.

BUT, I missed the email (as I have too much in my inboxes). 

Coincidentally, I sent Will an email Thursday night asking about it and he replied this AM that it was ready.

So, embarrassing and exciting! Should be able to pick it up on Tuesday.

David Lipsky

Berkeley

[kim young]

hi alex happy solstice likewise,

As to the parts for my aspirational susie, I got a lovely wheelset (27's) from Joe and Allbatross bars with alivios from Sean. (thx yall!!!)

I've yet to dig through my parts bin, which is a vortex. I think i have a set of original s-flag cranks if anyone wants those.

(david that's very exciting btw about your frame being ready)

I am going with the silvers - that have the holes whatever they are called.

There is one detail i keep forgetting to post is that I had to order mis-matched b/b cups for it. 

I've never heard of this before - ?? - but Will knew what to include. I am sure I will be calling him with a bunch of questions once I get going on it.

I plan on 2.5 tires, tho if i decide to go wider 

(i think the susie tolerates up to 3.0) i think i need the longer spindle.

Riv made me a list of suggested parts, in case it's helpful:

happy trails from kim in az

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[Mark Roland]

Hi Kim. I think what they are talking about is a kind of extender for the bb, to turn a 68mm into the required 73mm for the Susie.

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[kim young]

Hey Mark 

You are right. I had to get a 68 and a 73.

I kept wondering what difference it would make tho- because I would still just be threading them all the way in. 

Now that you say that...so it must be the flange that is wider and will extend further? (Lol sry if this is obvious and I am being dense.)

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[Joe Bernard]

It's not obvious to me at all, Kim. I know what a 73mm BB and shell are, but I don't know why they kludged a 68 and 73 together. That's...odd.

[kim young]

Hi joe :)

Well -when I asked grant the question- he said essentially that same thing: it’s odd but that’s just how it works. ?? 

(least I can add ‘kludge‘ to my vocabulary now. I can def use that !)

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 6:29 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's not obvious to me at all, Kim. I know what a 73mm BB and shell are, but I don't know why they kludged a 68 and 73 together. That's...odd.

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[Ray Varella]

Can someone post a picture of the 68/73mm combo bottom bracket.
I’m having trouble visualizing why it wouldn’t just be a 73mm.

Will a 73mm bottom bracket take a standard square taper crank or are we looking at a new standard?


Ray

[kim young]

Hi ray- good question.

don’t have mine yet (and I don’t know quite how to picture it either.)

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[Joe Bernard]

"Will a 73mm bottom bracket take a standard square taper crank or are we looking at a new standard?"

Yes it'll take a square taper crank, I've built a bunch of bikes with 73mm shells this way. You just need a spindle/arms combination wide enough to clear wider chainstays.

[kim young]

Would it have something to do with the fact I am going 2X (not 3)?

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 7:52 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

"Will a 73mm bottom bracket take a standard square taper crank or are we looking at a new standard?"

Yes it'll take a square taper crank, I've built a bunch of bikes with 73mm shells this way. You just need a spindle/arms combination wide enough to clear wider chainstays. 

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[Joe Bernard]

Kim, if I'm going to take a wild guess - AND I AM - I'm going to say your combination asks for a spindle length they like/can get in a 68 BB, so they're glomming on (or kludging!) a cup from a 73 to make it fit that shell. Which probably works great and come to think of it I think I've done this at least once. I'm pro glom/kludge 😉

[kim young]

Word up joe!

(And if glom is the root of conglomeratIon, than my build is sure to qualify.)

Thank you 😊 

On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 8:22 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kim, if I'm going to take a wild guess - AND I AM - I'm going to say your combination asks for a spindle length they like/can get in a 68 BB, so they're glomming on (or kludging!) a cup from a 73 to make it fit that shell. Which probably works great and come to think of it I think I've done this at least once. I'm pro glom/kludge 😉

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[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

You gentlemen are all right.  I actually have about six different brands/combinations of square taper BBs that I will experiment with.  I hope to memorialize that process in a blog post so stay tuned.

Since the drive side cup/BB is the same on the Shimano UN55 for either 68 or 73mm models....they are stealing the cup-only from a shorter 73mm bottom bracket because Shimano doesn't make an off-the-shelf 73mm spindle length long enough for most cranks/this bike.

Essentially the adjustable cup from the 73mm variants is "deeper" so that the cup reaches the bearing and fully supports it.

On some other brands the adjustable cup doesn't have a lip preventing it from traveling inside the bottom bracket (Shimano does).  You can cheat the system this way on other brands and use a 68mm BB in a 73mm shell, but it makes your cranks a little off-center.

I also scored a NOS three piece Tange BB that *might* be the right length.

All of these different scenarios have to factor in your tire size....the bigger you go, your chainline gets pushed outward which can start eliminating certain crank options.

Hopefully I can make all of this easier to understand in pictures....I'm not really doing it justice in writing.

Happy Father's Day to all you bike dads out there 😍

Alex Wirth in Rochester, NY

[kim young]

Ohhhh...Ok. Thank you Alex.

(Indeed-Happy Father’s Day to all the great dads on here.)

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[Ray Varella]

Thanks Kim,
I have a lot of parts here, I would seriously consider one of these frames if my cranks were compatible.

Thanks Alex, I’ll keep an eye out for pictures.
Would Phil Wood bottom brackets or at least their rings on a cartridge bb simplify things?

Cheers
Ray

[Joe Bernard]

Ray, I think the simplest path is to get a 73mm Shimano UN55 in a spindle length that seems workable with the frame and cranks you have..I found several lengths available with a quick search. It'll be a bit of a guessing game of holding the cranks up to your new frame and eyeing how much distance you need from the BB shell, I have a drawer full of bottom brackets to show for when the guess is wrong. Heck, I may even have a 73mm BB in there somebody can use!

[kim young]

Flag cranks are sold.

Thanks everyone. 

On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 10:32 AM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ray, I think the simplest path is to get a 73mm Shimano UN55 in a spindle length that seems workable with the frame and cranks you have..I found several lengths available with a quick search. It'll be a bit of a guessing game of holding the cranks up to your new frame and eyeing how much distance you need from the BB shell, I have a drawer full of bottom brackets to show for when the guess is wrong. Heck, I may even have a 73mm BB in there somebody can use!

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[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

@Ray that's definitely an option.  Since I wasn't sure what tire/crank/BB I was going to use/would work, I figured I'd better experiment with $30 options rather than $200 options.  

Phil Wood was actually the end goal at the beginning but once I found that NOS three piece Tange BB..... I'm really hoping that works out 🤞

[Ray Varella]

Alex,
I’m just trying to picture the differences.
Is the barrel of the 73mm bb 5mm wider so the bearings are placed 5mm further outboard or are the mounting rings 5mm thicker.

I really haven’t kept up with newer standards.

Thank you
Ray

[Garth]

My Susie frame will get here this week. It's rather anticlimactic though as it's summer and summer is for riding ! I'll get around to assembling it eventually.

For clarity, these Tange BB's follow the same specs as Shimano and most others. A "oversize" 73mm shell is simply +2.5mm on each side from center. It's just a wider shell. It's part of the same British standard, just wider, typical on mtb's. It's nothing new, and not really necessary.

As you can see from the image, the 73 BB's simply add that 2.5mm to each side. If the image appears small just zoom in on it.

Thankfully my 149mm Sram S600 crank takes a 113 so I got a 73x113 BB. The Silver cranks can run into problems because the relatively straight arms, great on a typical road/mountain bike but not so great on bike that can take 2.8" tires with a typical spaced cassette. Myself I'd rather eliminate the smallest cog and move the remaining cogs outward than have to resort to a overly long spindle as that just increases the chain angle even more.