Buzzy hubs, hipster or window rattling?

[Joe Bernard]

Just back from a ride on my fancy schmancy custom with its fancy schmancy White Industries hubs. Why did I think that loud freewheeling buzz was the cool jam?? I feel like I'm on a Harley with straight pipes pissing all the neighbors off! What's the verdict around here, are buzzy hubs hip and cool and I'm a grouchy old anti-hip and cool person? 

Joe "uncool as always" Bernard 

[Tom M]

Love my WI freewheel. Personally, I like the buzz. And I'm no longer young.

Tom in Alexandria, VA

[John Rinker]

Well, I don't know if 'cool' or 'hip' really enters into it, but I think I get your drift. Certainly, there is something to be said about gliding through a forest quietly and being able to sneak up on unsuspecting pedestrians. While it makes for fine hyperbole, your equivalency with the Harley falls short in that your bicycle will never be as annoying or as carbon-spewing.

I, for one, like the sound of pawls and ratchets playing nicely. The sound reminds me of why I like bicycles so much- their beautiful, mechanical nature. I can make my hubs quiet by the simple, graceful motion of pedaling or I can let them sing, 'I am a mechanical, steel being, and happy to be so!' I certainly don't wish to piss off my neighbors or other riders, but I am of the mind that if someone is pissed off because I'm riding a bicycle, then it's their perspective that is the issue and not my spinning wheels. 

That you are riding a bicycle is cool and hip, and this trumps (gosh, I hate using what used to be such a wonderful word) all else.

FWIW,

John

[Richard Rose]

I have White Industries hubs on my full suspension MTB. They are not as loud as Kings or i9’s but I do here them. Did not really bother me but I am amazed at the quietness of the Deore hubs on my Clem. I mean, they are silent! I had no idea.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 9, 2022, at 10:58 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just back from a ride on my fancy schmancy custom with its fancy schmancy White Industries hubs. Why did I think that loud freewheeling buzz was the cool jam?? I feel like I'm on a Harley with straight pipes pissing all the neighbors off! What's the verdict around here, are buzzy hubs hip and cool and I'm a grouchy old anti-hip and cool person? 

Joe "uncool as always" Bernard 

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[Joe Bernard]

"While it makes for fine hyperbole, your equivalency with the Harley falls short in that your bicycle will never be as annoying or as carbon-spewing."

In my defense it was intentionally hyperbolic. A little drama, don'tcha know. 

[rlti...@gmail.com]

I prefer quiet hubs which is why I typically stick to Shimano. You can hear them if you try but it’s not overwhelming. It seems like there is no mechanical benefit from the extra noise so there is no need for me to switch.

My Rohloff’s are louder than I like but I put up with it since I like the hubs.

Robert a Tilley

San Diego, CA

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On Feb 9, 2022, at 7:58 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just back from a ride on my fancy schmancy custom with its fancy schmancy White Industries hubs. Why did I think that loud freewheeling buzz was the cool jam?? I feel like I'm on a Harley with straight pipes pissing all the neighbors off! What's the verdict around here, are buzzy hubs hip and cool and I'm a grouchy old anti-hip and cool person? 

Joe "uncool as always" Bernard 

--

[Joe Mullins]

I really wanted to try one of the silent Onyx hubs that Riv had a few weeks ago but couldn’t bring myself to spend the money on them. Has anyone tried the Silver hubs? How do those sound?

And I certainly like hearing the loud hubs…when they are on a bike sneaking up behind me! It seems like at least once a week I’ll get the crap scared out of me by someone failing to warn of their approach as I gaze around enjoying the breeze and peace of quiet of my darn-close-to-silent Shimano hubs. 

Joe

On Feb 9, 2022, at 9:09 PM, rlti...@gmail.com wrote:

I prefer quiet hubs which is why I typically stick to Shimano. You can hear them if you try but it’s not overwhelming. It seems like there is no mechanical benefit from the extra noise so there is no need for me to switch.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9533FAE8-BFA8-4F01-92FA-D4B3E339FA78%40gmail.com.

[Ahmed Elgasseir]

I also prefer the quieter hubs. 

https://youtu.be/n03g8nsaBro

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9533FAE8-BFA8-4F01-92FA-D4B3E339FA78%40gmail.com.

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[John Rinker]

Ha! No defense needed, Joe, your hyperbole was well-received. I have noticed of late in our community an infatuation with quiet hubs (Deore, Onyx), and that's cool, but I stand by my love of pawls and ratchets. The bicycling world is big enough for all flavors.

[Mr. Ray]

"My Rohloff’s are louder than I like but I put up with it since I like the hubs".

This means you haven't put enough miles on them.  After 20,000 miles, they are silent.

[rlti...@gmail.com]

I definitely don’t have that many miles on them  I’m still less than 1,000 miles on both of mine. I need to get out more…

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

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On Feb 9, 2022, at 10:45 PM, Mr. Ray <yellow...@gmail.com> wrote:

"My Rohloff’s are louder than I like but I put up with it since I like the hubs".

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3b472cbd-28ed-4f03-bc8c-960f4c3ee34bn%40googlegroups.com.

[Hetchins52]

Overheard — A regular customer standing at the front display counter in venerable, high end bike shop to the shop manager: ‘Hey, you used to have some nice Chris King hubs in there but I don’t see them now. What happened?

Manager: ‘Yeah, we did, but we had to remove them. They were keeping all the other hubs up at night!’

[budda bum!]

David Lipsky (Slightly annoyed by his Pacenti rear wheel’s freehub while riding in mid-70s weather today) in Berkeley, CA

[Joe Bernard]

My new-to-me Rohloff (I don't think it has many miles on it) seems eerily quiet so it's funny to hear others say they're loud. It has some ticking and buzzes and vibrations in various gears (or coasting) but not very loud and I love all of it. 

I should emphasize I don't HATE my WI hub - it's light and pretty and fabulous - I just thought I'd be more into the freewheeling noise. But it's ok! 

Joe Bernard

On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 11:20:52 PM UTC-8 Robert Tilley wrote:

[Mr. Ray]

Rohloff hubs use 25 ml of Rohloff oil.  The oil acts as a lubricant and also a sound dampner especially when the internal gears are new.  Sometimes oil leaks out (sweat oil or laying the hub cog side down).  This is normal and doesn't mean the hub is damaged so with less oil inside the hub, there is more noise.  If you are not sure how much oil is inside your hub then do an oil change.  Anyway, once your hub has lots of miles, the noise will be gone even when there is less than 25ml in the hub.

[ascpgh]

I don't think you freewheel to scare old ladies while out PO-ing your neighborhood. You didn't say if your custom was a balloon molded CFRP clack resonator or if your wheels were of deep section non-metallic rims, single digit spoke count or monocoque either. All those really add to project your pawls' snapping over the edges of the teeth on the drive ring. That'd be a real public menace. 

My Suzue Classica is louder than my Shimano freehubs but those have also been the only brand of freehubs on which I've had pawl failure. I appreciate the different sound of a different freewheeling mechanism because of that decades old experience, even now.. Shimano is probably the only manufacturer able to engineer the acoustic signature of a freehub as part of their product engineering and design development. I suspect  that Onyx and others with quiet to silent clutch-like engagements do so as an unintentional secondary gain to a alternate paradigm of freewheeling and egagement, which is hip and cool itself.  

If my rear hub ratchet racket means sturdier, I'm for it. Has nothing to do with "not Shimano", that's just secondary gain for me. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 10:58:17 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

[jeffrey kane]

Joe - I have that same hub (or a T-11 or something) but yeah, it turned me off to loud hubs for good:

1. For the small percentage of riding that I get to do in the woods I found it really annoying, like, "no talking in the library" annoying!

2. When I had my bike on the stand doing tune ups or whatever the thing would be so loud I couldn't hear myself think!

Honestly, it even bugged me in NYC where I ride daily .. and that's really saying something. Now it hangs in the garage collecting dust ...

How's that for old man grouchy? 

[Eric Daume]

I hate loud hubs. On my occasional ride on a bike with loud hubs, I find myself avoiding coasting, soft pedaling just to avoid hearing the dang hub. Then I get rid of the bike or wheel. 

On Wednesday, February 9, 2022, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just back from a ride on my fancy schmancy custom with its fancy schmancy White Industries hubs. Why did I think that loud freewheeling buzz was the cool jam?? I feel like I'm on a Harley with straight pipes pissing all the neighbors off! What's the verdict around here, are buzzy hubs hip and cool and I'm a grouchy old anti-hip and cool person? 

Joe "uncool as always" Bernard 

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[lconley]

The hub or freewheel noise or lack thereof is all part of a bikes personality. I have loud WI freewheels and I have quiet Shimano Deore freehubs. I like them both. I also have a couple of Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs that make that distinct "tick" that I remember from the "English Racers" of my youth. It is all good. I do use the WI freewheels in lieu of a bell sometimes when approaching pedestrians.

I wonder if the unique tick of the S-A hubs has to do with them being made of steel?

Laing

On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 10:58:17 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

[Bill Lindsay]

Laing said: " The hub or freewheel noise or lack thereof is all part of a bikes personality. I have loud WI freewheels and I have quiet Shimano Deore freehubs. I like them both." 

This is the evolved way to coexist with bicycles.  APPROVE

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Patrick Moore]

I rather like the slow, sedate ticking of overridden pawls while pedaling my AM hub; with SA 3 speeds you get pawl noise both coasting and pedaling. But since I dligently oil the hub, the ticking is always very muted; I should back off a bit to make the sound louder.

I forget if you get overriden pawl noise on fixed multispeed hubs; I guess you do since the mechanism requires multiple interior drivers.

[Christine Rose]

I want my bicycles to be as silent as possible. I don't get annoyed with other people's loud hubs, because it's only in passing, I don't have to hear it all the time. The stock Formula hub on my Fuji makes the Deore on my Clem sound loud!

Silence is golden,

Christine

[Patrick Moore]

The slow ticking when pedaling in direct and overdrive is the first gear and second gear pawls being overriden; you don't get it in underdrive. And it comes from the innards, not the shell -- my AMs have aluminum shells.

On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 6:11 AM lconley <lco...@brph.com> wrote:

... I wonder if the unique tick of the S-A hubs has to do with them being made of steel?

[Joe Bernard]

 "You didn't say if your custom was a balloon molded CFRP clack resonator or if your wheels were of deep section non-metallic rims, single digit spoke count or monocoque either."

You thought when I said "my custom" on a Riv page that it might be a carbon fiber road bike? It's a Rivendell with Rich-builts wheels. No carbon, no deep sections, lotta spokes. 

[Joe Bernard]

"The hub or freewheel noise or lack thereof is all part of a bike's personality. I have loud WI freewheels and I have quiet Shimano Deore freehubs."

This is true. I present the discussion as a discussion because I find it mildly interesting, I'm afraid I've left the impression I consider it a real problem I need to solve. Nope! I'm just not likely to put this hub on another bike.

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 5:11:15 AM UTC-8 lconley wrote:

[Doug H.]

Why are WI freewheels louder? I ask as I have no idea.

Doug

[Nick Payne]

I find my Hope hubs (quite noisy when freewheeling) are useful on bikepaths. When approaching pedestrians from behind, a quick freewheel is usually enough to get their attention without having to ring my bell.

Nick

[John Rinker]

FWIW, I had my White hub apart this weekend and put a few drops of Finish Line (wet) on the ratchet teeth before reassembling. The hub is noticeably more quiet.

Cheers, John

[Mike Godwin]

Are you pissing all the neighbors off, or pissing off all the neighbors?  I think the grammar needs to be explored as much as the hubba bubba of the hubs. I am not the one to dissect the grammar though. Is off at the end of a sentence a preposition?  I cannot recall.  Joe, just a gentil jab who is jonesing on the cacophony of rotating steel bits. I have silent, medium and kind of noisy rear hubs. Three bikes, three different hubs, but they all have the same brake levers. I try and ride each one on different days. Swarm of bees is the newest (my ex-GF did not like the euphemism swarm of rattlesnakes which I think more closely describes buzzy hubs).   

Mike SLO CA 

[Joe Bernard]

I don't remember the question and such as and thereof. 

Joe "what's that buzzing sound" Bernard

[aeroperf]

Came here looking for the:  “Unclip the playing cards from your chainstays” comment.
[badda bum!]

OK, I’m old.  But I can’t be the only one who did this as a kid...

[MoVelo]

I'm old enough to have lost enough hearing to not be bothered by buzzy hubs, and I try to keep an appropriate social distance from those that could potentially be bothered by them. 

My Chris Blings are noisy and sometimes I can hear them. My Shimanos are silent, I think. 

[Pam Bikes]

I don't like the fancy, loud hubs.  I don't mind them on other people's bikes but I like a quiet bike.  Just my preference.  I just want something reliable that will last.  I got a Phil touring hub and asked before I got it if it'd be loud.  It's whatever you like.  But how does it ride?

[Joe Bernard]

Hi Pam!

It's quite glorious to ride..and gorgeous and built into a perfect wheel by Rich Lesnik at Riv and Hands On Wheels. I don't love the buzz but it's not a deal breaker, I'm keeping it! 

[Nick Payne]

The freewheel mechanisms in my hubs vary from Onyx (completely silent), through Shimano (fairly quiet), DT Swiss (not so quiet), to Hope (pretty loud). But I can't say that I really think about or notice hub noise when I'm riding. I really only notice it when I'm servicing bikes in the garage.

Nick

[Joe Bernard]

It's entirely possible I've developed an 'old guy' thing about it. I used to own a very loud FIAT 500 Abarth which I adored, then traded for a much quieter Chevy Impala five years ago. I don't think I'd be ok with the yappy little Italian car now, I've turned into a grumpy old man who wants his peace. Get off my lawn!  

[Jason Fuller]

I like the White's sound - they're not quiet, but I find their buzz has an elegance to it compared to some of the really loud MTB hubs out there (Hope I think it one example, I can't recall the others).  I appreciate that a silent hub is nicer for quiet time in nature.  What I like about the light buzz is that I can passively let people know I'm coming up behind them without a jarring ding of the bell (I'll pedal backwards as I approach to amplify the effect) 

[Jim Whorton]

Aeroperf, yes, I also ruined some baseball cards by clipping them to chainstays 40-something years ago.  Who knows, maybe they would be worth tens of thousands of dollars now.

I was on a short bike trip in Mississippi a couple of springs ago and talked to some kids--one of them, maybe 7, had jammed a disposable water bottle into the fork of his bike, between the crown and the tire.  That was a new one to me.  He demonstrated and when the tire turned, the crinkling hollow plastic did make a rumbling sound not totally unlike a motorcycle engine.  It was pretty cool.

Jim in Rochester, NY

[Patrick Moore]

Poll: Who clipped playing cards to your fender struts or stays? Even older, who clipped baseball cards to them? I recall using baseball cards scrounged from friends about 60 years ago; in fact, in our circle, baseball cards (Mickey Mantle! Probably Ty Cobb, too) were a lot more common than playing cards. IIRC, baseball cards came with those dry, brittle slabs of bubble gum and probably tasted better.

Patrick "no annoying ratcheting sounds with a fixed gear" Moore, who in reality likes the slow tick-tick-tick of overdriven pawls in Sturmey Archer epicyclics.

[Peter Adler]

Baseball cards more common than playing cards? I suppose that depends on when/where/how you grew up.

I remember the great economic crisis of my early childhood, when in 1967 the price of Bazooka Joe bubblegum at the liquor store in my neighborhood* doubled from one cent to two, and the buying power of my 5-cent weekly allowance (which I had hitherto considered princely) was cut in half. Baseball cards were an unaffordable luxury at 5 cents a pack, and the bubblegum in those packs was much staler than Bazooka Joe. The A's hadn't moved to Oakland yet, and my New Yorker father boycotted the Giants as turncoats, so I had no baseball interest until I was older.

At the same time, my father was a dealer in an Emeryville poker hall, from the time before Emeryville was known for malls, condos, corporate offices and Pixar. As one might imagine, there were always playing cards around my house; the older decks would normally get tossed unless the employees took them away. So it was playing cards in the spokes of my Raleigh Chopper, unless it was old IBM punchcards my mom brought home from her computer operations job at Ma Bell's West Coast routing center in San Francisco.

Peter Adler

who sometimes notices how strange his life has been when he reads it written down in

Berkeley, CA/USA

* yes, youngs; BITD, small children could go into liquor stores unaccompanied and buy stuff without comment from anybody. I even bought smokes for my dad at that liquor store

[Steven Sweedler]

We would use baseball cards, but would only put them on our bikes for special events like riding behind a parade. I grew up outside of New Haven,Ct and most of my friends and I were Yankee fans, I doubt anyone ever put a Mantle card on their bike. Steve

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[lconley]

Of course, if you were really cool (and had money) you would get a Mattel V-RROOM "engine" (or complete bicycle) that contained batteries and a speaker to make the noise. One up from having a frame tank with integrated light and horn.

Laing

[lconley]

And just FYI - I had a blue Murray 20" wheeled "girls" bike hand-me-down from my older sister with a playing card and clothespin. My sister had gotten some sort of pink and white Schwinn with 24" or 26" wheels.

Laing