front carrying options for 2022

[Minh]

hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how i carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider other options.  

I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.   But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?

This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, opinions, philosophy on this!  

[Joe Mullins]

What kind of bars do you have? I personally don’t like the Fabio’s chest or similar style saddle bags on drop bars because even on 48mm Noodle bars I lost the flat grip area. My fingers ended up half in the bag. I think that type of bag works better on upright bars but I prefer a basket/rack/bag setup for the front and keeping saddle bags on the saddle. On the front, keeping the weight as low and back as possible is the way to go. I’d imagine that if your current setup feels wobbly, putting a bag up higher would exaggerate the wobbliness even more. 

Joe in Los Angeles

On Jun 7, 2022, at 9:00 AM, Minh <mgian...@gmail.com> wrote:

hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how i carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider other options.  

I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.   But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?

This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, opinions, philosophy on this!  

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[Minh]

Ah good question, i use albatross bars.  and i wouldnt say its a serious wobble, but every now and then i do feel something thru the bars.  i also use a steering dampener so the front wheel does not flop with the basket.  

[Joe Mullins]

Maybe someone with a Quickbeam can chime in with their experience. Looking at them stem with albatross bars, you actually might find that it’s rides pretty good with a bag on the bars compared to the basket. In my limited experience of bikes with bags and baskets, they all handle a little differently. 

Joe

On Jun 7, 2022, at 12:27 PM, Minh <mgian...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ah good question, i use albatross bars.  and i wouldnt say its a serious wobble, but every now and then i do feel something thru the bars.  i also use a steering dampener so the front wheel does not flop with the basket.  

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[Wally Estrella]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CbVfD1Hu9xN/

I've had 25# box of kitty litter on the rear.  Luckily it's only a mile home.

I'm currently running Nitto Dirt Drops RM-013, 52 w/ either a small or medium BXB Goldback.  With plenty of clearance for my big mitts between the side pockets and brake levers.

[John Hawrylak]

From your pictures, your front rack/basket seems to be set up as good as it can be, i.e., the rack is as low as possible and all the weight is on the rack, none is on the bars.  I do not see any improvements there

So the shimmy is likely caused by the amount of weight on the front and the high trail & flop inherent in you QB.  The QB seems to be a 56 or 58cm frame and per the RBW specs on Cyclofiend ( Cyclofiend: RBW: Frame Geometry Archive Info ) HTA is 72.5°, rake is 4.5cm & with 32-622 tires, giving a 62mm trail and 18mm flop.  The trail and flop are both high, and combined with the front weight, is a likely cause of the shimmy.

Suggestions

Shift some of the front weight to the rear saddle bag to reduce front weight, and balance the load better

Use a needle bearing headset, or a HS with needle bearings on the bottom.  

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ 

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:

[Bones]

Perilous? Nonsense! I think your setup is perfect, assuming you are not carting around bowling balls. I feel no difference in handling from 0-10lb or so up front. I do not experience any wobble or shimmy; I am not sure if your P clamps are playing a part in that or not (thankfully mine has a place to mount). I use this for work every day and only carry some extra scrubs and lunch and a few other small items. I can easily throw 12 beers in on the way home too with no issue. I have a basket rack doing nothing right now and I sometimes think about putting that on the front but I really don't need it.

Bones

[Den John]

Hey all,

I've seen a few Carradice/Fabio's chest setups with the bag lowered from the flat section of the drop bars. Seems like you need to then strap the lower part of the bag to a front rack. Not sure exactly how this is done - you can sort of see it here: https://bikepacking.com/bikes/rivendell-atlantis-ultraromance/

If anyone's got any better pictures or explanations about how to do this I'd be grateful to know.

A Carradice bag on a set of flat bars worked pretty well for me on a two day trip in the German Black Forest mountains - I strapped the pag up well with long Voilé straps to keep it from interfering with the brake cables.

Cheers,

Johnny

[Steven Sweedler]

Another thing to try and eliminate shimmy is to use a fork crown mounted brake cable stop instead of the one at the headset. Its worked for me on several bikes and now its all I use. Steve

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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

[Patch T]

Wally, I love the set-up you've got there, especially up front. I wish I was a little bit taller...

Minh, I've owned a QB for 5 or 6 years. I recently traded my Orange 54 for a better-fitting, but less-fast ;) Silver 56. 

The 54 always had a front basket on a small Campee rack. I camped and erranded a lot on this bike, plenty of long rides in-between - it was my only bike for some time. I never experienced wobble nor shimmy, and really pushed the limits on load weight - in fact, the fork crown stay of the rack broke (not at the weld, mind you) on a mostly off-road 2-nighter around the Santa Cruz Mountains in CA, catastrophe gratefully/luckily avoided. It was fixed by listmember David Parsons. Since then, I've been much more careful with how much weight I add on that rack. Anyway, steering generally always felt totally great.

The 56 is more of a French fit, and it currently holds a Swift rando bag. It's fendered, and its main purpose is a wet-conditions SS road/rando bike. I have a commuter now that does the errand haul with a sturdier rack, so the QB's load stays light; only gets what I need for a day's ride. I'm currently in the middle of a bike-parts-switch-up, and it may end up getting moustache bars (I was recently surprised to learn I love them), and an Erlen rack + small Fabio out back. I've never ridden with rear weight on the QB, and would like to try it out, as others have recommended. I have tried rear weight on various other bikes, most recently a '92 XO-1, and have never liked the feel. 

The other main thing to consider with a large handlebar bag, besides your bar width as Joe pointed out, is how high your bars are in relation to you front wheel, and how/if the bag is supported. Yours looks fine in the photo, but something to consider. Once a week or so I try to commute 33 miles each way to work on the XO-1. I use the small Fabio's, supported by a homemade "Pec-Dec". It holds just my laptop, charger, clothes, snacks, journal, few toiletries, other small incidentals (read: junk). It could fit more, and even with weight, the bag feels sturdy, the steering different but comfortable, smooth, responsive. But the bag, even with the support, just barely clears enough when stuffed with stuff. I need longer struts.

Anyway, hope that's all helpful.

Patch

NYC

[Patch T]

[Stephen]

I also think your setup looks good Minh, I'm a big fan of the shop sack & 137 combo, however I use the nitto m1 rack. In my experience i think there is always going to be some degree of flex when you have a rack&basket combined with swept back bars and a quill stem, especially as your load weight goes up. I think of it as compounding flex points: a little in the rack struts, a little in the quill length, and a little in the bar. It gets more noticeable as each of these lengths get longer. I have a basket setup on my ram with albastache bars and a really short 50mm technomic and the flex isn't noticeable unless im carrying a lot of weight.

I also have an appaloosa set up with a large basket rack and a 139. I initially ran losco's with an 11cm stem, which felt really noodly with any decent weight in it, switched to the riv bull moose and it stiffened up considerably.

I've also tried the carradice/bxb/fabs style bag up front and I'd say it reduces wobble. It may effect handling in other ways but it seems to me to be less flexy since you are torquing the front load directly through the handlebars instead of handlebars -> stem -> steer tube/fork -> rack. however, I still tend to prefer the shopsack basket combo because I like to just pick up the bag and go whenever I park the bike.

...

I just read your post again and maybe this isn't really addressing the issue, if its more a problem of the bike shimmying at higher speeds. I've experienced that on some lighter tubed bikes, i never really had a solution beyond carrying less weight.

On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 10:45:57 AM UTC-4 Steven Sweedler wrote:

[Minh]

hey all thanks for comments.  i guess part of me asking is that this classic combo does feel a little 'old fashioned', but it is super versatile and the shopsack is like a perfect fit for the basket.   i just pass all these cool looking front bag options!

i may be exaggerating a little bit the shimmy and wobble, its hard to nail down but sometimes it feels like the load will start shifting and osciliating, its never out of control but it does make me sit-up and pay attention--i can feel 'something'.  John, makes a good point, this bike does have pretty serious front wheel flop, so it could be that i'm feeling too.

 the basket is held on at the moment with a mix of zipties and straps, but maybe i can stiffen things up with some cross support?  How are people attaching the baskets? 

Re: the perilous part, i know that Riv/Nitto are very conservtive with both weight, and warnings about using the racks as support for a handlebar bag instead of a static load.  and i am as nuts as all of you, when i had a platrack on this setup i carried a car batttery and watermelon in my 139 basket!  

Stephen, which front rack are you using for the 139?  

Again thanks for all the thoughts, will try to be more aware of weight vs wobble feel.  i've been riding to work so its pretty much the same load, but will focus on it more!  

[Stephen]

Hey Minh,

I'm using the the nitto made rbw front basket rack (rbw52f), which according to the riv page says the estimated load limit is 20 lbs.

[Corwin]

Hi Minh -

I have a first generation Quickbeam. I like the Platrack bolted to my Mark's rack with the associated Platsack. Not great for heavy loads - but more than adequate for my needs. The Platrack/Platsack are no longer offered by Riv - but pop up occasionally on the list.

Thanks,

Corwin

[Philip Williamson]

Hi Minh,

I read all the thoughtful responses, and they brought up ideas I hadn’t considered. My suspicion on the cause of any shimmy is the stacked flex points in the handlebar to load system. 

Your setup looks fine and I think a basket is the height of chic. If you have a basket, you don’t need a bag, right? I do like small bags attached to the outside of the basket. That’s a nice way to “modern” up your setup. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ca_EscbLkTC/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

My Quickbeam doesn’t shimmy with a front load, but I’ve got a steel Salsa stem, with steel Sycip Java Boy bars, previously (15+) years with WTB flared drops. The basket is welded to the rack, which attaches to the canti posts and fork crown, and previously (14+ years) I used hose clamps. Solid either way. 

Philip

Sonoma County, Calif

[Christine Rose]

I use a Surly 8-Pack rack with a basket attached with several velcro straps. I love the rack, very sturdy, attaches to my fork crown and mid-fork eyelets, so it has kinda a minimal look. And it's not very expensive. It's on my Clem, and when it had the stock Bosco bars, the steering would be slow and wobbly with a heavy load. If I kept it under 10ish pounds, it was ok. But now I've swapped out the bars for a Velo Orange Crazy Bar and a shorter stem. Those bars are very wide and a heavier load now feels pretty good, no more uncomfortable wobbly steering. That setup is just so versatile. I've been tempted by the fabulously good looks of the Fabio's Chest and others. But for my kinda of cycling, everyday utility and touring, this works very well.

Christine,

Space Coast of Florida

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:

[JAS]

I checked out the Surly 8-pack rack after reading your description and noticed the Safety Recall.  Hope you saw it too...

https://surlybikes.com/surly-8-24-pack-rack-recall 

--Joyce

[Wally Estrella]

there was some redesign on the stay clamps or something like that.  IIRC Surly offered replacements up for free.  Most likely any one purchased today would have the new design, if not Surly should still be offering the replacement items.

[Mackenzy Albright]

I have generally build bikes around a porteur style rack. Velo Orange, Memento Cycles, Pass and Tow, etc. with a large wald basket. But those were on low trail bikes. 

For my new Clem build I am running a front handlebar bag, rear rack with panniers, and strapping camping gear (tent, foamy, sleeping bag) to the rear rack. Fab's chests are nice, but they sure are expensive. 

I'd recommend checking out some canadian made brands as they are probably much cheaper and more available. 

https://www.atwateratelier.com/  - the Marauder is their bar bag. 

https://mementocycles.com/ - canadian made pass and tow style rack. They seem like a great bang for the buck.  

[Christine Rose]

Yeah, mine is from after the recall, so it came with the beefier bolts or whatever they changed. Thanks for looking out though!

On Thursday, June 9, 2022 at 1:05:00 PM UTC-4 JAS wrote:

[John P. in SF]

Hi Minh

First thing I would do is move the basket so that it rests against the tombstone of the rack. It looks from your picture that you have the basket an inch or two forward - this is problematic. Moving the basket to rest against the tombstone will minimize flex in your rack and also, in general, keeping the load in the basket close to the headtube helps to keep things stable. It may fix your problem overall.

The basket does not need to be rigidly attached to the rack. I have often employed a used up road tube to tie the basket to the rack - tie a square knot in one corner, wrap the tube around the rack and the basket with a fair amount of tension on the tube, and then another square knot on the other end. A simple knot will suffice for the end also if you tuck the end of the tube between the basket and the rack to keep the knot from being undone. This is reliable and repeatable. I can pick up my bikes by the basket when I do this. Old tubes make nice tie downs, in my experience.

Cheers, John P. in SF

OT - if someone in the SF bay area wants to part with a Clem L 59 frameset we may be able to strike a deal. plz reply off list.

On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 9:00:22 AM UTC-7 Minh wrote:

[Brent Knepper]

hope no one minds me adding a "data point" so late in the game, thread's relevancy popped up on this monthly errand::::

4 miles round trip, unavoidable curb drops and potholes included, done frequently for two years now with wobbles but no breaking/braking

in the pic it's a smaller wald basket hose clamped on a nitto rack with whateva steel m5 bolts to a surly lht fork, old tube bøngee pro move

~*~ 30lb dog food bag + lock + plastic bag to fill with goumies back there ~*~

whole bike is goofy af with the surly fork anyway so I don't notice the noticeable rack flex :)

also have a 650b rando bike bechested by fabiccio, dunno if the dog food bag would fit in it but a 30lb dumbbell piloted by this slightly heavier dumbbell could survive thanks to the big ol velcro straps on the bars

[Will M]

Minh, I have a 62cm QB with the brazed-on mid-fork rack mounts and a Mark's Rack; everything you've described is exactly what I've encountered with a zip-tied Wald 139.  I moved the Wald 139 to a Riv/Nitto Two-Strut Top Rack on my 1990s Cannondale adventure touring bike (with fork rake/trail geometry for heavy front loads) and wow what a difference.  Case of beer?  No problem.  (Picture.)  That car battery and watermelon would be easy.  Not  so on the QB. I've tried a VO Porteur rack and it didn't improve the "shimmy feeling" you described.  My view (as others have commented) is that what you've got is about as good as it gets on a QB.  Handsome bike pictured there on Pier 25!  --Will M, NYC