Camping bikes

[J L]

Hello all,

I would love to hear how folks have set up a bike for camping duty. Any sage advice? I am looking forward to a time where I can ride out from the house, do one or two overnights, and ride home.

Let’s say in this scenario I am doing more than putting stuff in a backpack or bike basket and going.

Jason
SF, CA

[John Blish]

CrazyGuyOnABike.com.  Complete with hundreds of fotos.  That’s a touring site but it takes almost as much stuff on the bike for a night or two as it does for a week or two; S24HO is kind of an exception.  Where you are headed will tell you how much food and water you must carry and what will already be there when you arrive.

Good luck.

-jb 

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John Blish
Western Colorado USA

[Pat Smith]

I'm a big fan of the traditional 2 pannier setup. All these special bikepacking bags seem more hassle than they are worth. 

Get a decent rack, like a Blackburn Grid (or something nicer if you're feeling fancy) and a pair of Ortlieb backrollers and you're good to go for a night or two. The space on top of the rack between the two panniers is good for bungee cording a tarp/footprint or whatever else is weatherproof. What I found was getting the actual camping gear was more effort (bag, tent, pad, cookware, etc.). I do like a small handlebar or saddle bag for my cell/keys/wallet type of items. 

Two panniers may be a bit overkill on a S24O in warm weather, but if you're only on your bike for a day or so the little extra weight and capacity won't kill you.

[Patrick Moore]

Aren't the bikepacker-type of bags meant to make riding easier in bush, and also to save a wee bit of weight for those who like minimalist camping? Just curious; I agree that, if these aren't the reasons, I can't see why you'd forgo racks and panniers. Racks and panniers are certainly better for errands and they are my preferred setup because they allow such flexibility of volume 1 or a pair of either Sports Packers or Backrollers.

Tubus racks were my choice until I started having customs made; the Fly -- no longer made -- weighed 11 oz but was rated to 20 kg and several of them served me well indeed.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[James / Analog Cycles]

I find it's pretty easy (ok really easy) to overpack panniers.  I like a Carradice camper sized saddle bag, 3 water bottles cages, one of which can handle a 48oz nalgene if it's dry out or I won't be camping near a creek, and a basket up front with a decent sized roll top bag.  Plenty of space for luxury minimalist camping.  Not an oxymoron, if you pack well.  

-James / Analog Cycles

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 9:41:08 PM UTC-4, J L wrote:

[Ginz]

For an over-nighter, I usually do two rear panniers and something in the front -- usually a basket or I strap a something to the bars.  

It's nice to have more capacity than you need because you don't have to be so fussy with packing.  Throw stuff in the bike and go!  If packing is too tedious for one night, I tend to feel exhausted before I even leave the house.  

[James / Analog Cycles]

Should have added:  Low gears for exploring, wide tires for taking the road less traveled, fenders if it's gross out, good tool kit, good first aid kit.  

[Curtis McKenzie]

James,

Needed to add good friends.  But not always.  A solo overnight is good for the sole.

Curtis

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[Collin A]

I'm a big fan of the large voluminous bags that allow you to stuff all sorts of things into them, rather than strapping all sorts of bags everywhere; Think BagsxBird and Sackville saddle sacks. That being said, I find that having one or two accessory bags strapped to the handlebars help with organization that the large bags aren't so good at - tool bag, phone/camera bag, first aid - things you want easy access to and you don't have to go digging for.

Re: Bikepacking bags - I found that they are mostly designed to operate without racks, which tend to save a big chunk of weight, and the smaller bags encourage only bringing what you need. However, it is part of a system which means you will also need the super packable tent, sleeping bag, cookset, etc. to make it operate well ($$$$$$)

Personally, I like to run a hybrid system with a bagsxbird bag attached to the handlebars, a bedrock tapeats to hold my phone, camera, and wallet; half-framebag; sackville bagboy bag supported by a tumbleweed t-rack that I can attach mini-paniers (for longer trips) or extra bottle cages for more water if needed. The perk with this setup is it allows for easy removal of all bags to lighten the bike up for a day ride once you get to your destination and explore the park/reserve/forest you are staying at. An album that I occsionally update is here, if you are curious: https://photos.app.goo.gl/JU2uuwp957K5S5H79

Just daydreaming now,

Collin in Sac

On Monday, April 20, 2020 at 8:38:26 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

Aren't the bikepacker-type of bags meant to make riding easier in bush, and also to save a wee bit of weight for those who like minimalist camping? Just curious; I agree that, if these aren't the reasons, I can't see why you'd forgo racks and panniers. Racks and panniers are certainly better for errands and they are my preferred setup because they allow such flexibility of volume 1 or a pair of either Sports Packers or Backrollers.

Tubus racks were my choice until I started having customs made; the Fly -- no longer made -- weighed 11 oz but was rated to 20 kg and several of them served me well indeed.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 8:11 AM Pat Smith <pbsm...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm a big fan of the traditional 2 pannier setup. All these special bikepacking bags seem more hassle than they are worth. 

Get a decent rack, like a Blackburn Grid (or something nicer if you're feeling fancy) and a pair of Ortlieb backrollers and you're good to go for a night or two. The space on top of the rack between the two panniers is good for bungee cording a tarp/footprint or whatever else is weatherproof. What I found was getting the actual camping gear was more effort (bag, tent, pad, cookware, etc.). I do like a small handlebar or saddle bag for my cell/keys/wallet type of items. 

Two panniers may be a bit overkill on a S24O in warm weather, but if you're only on your bike for a day or so the little extra weight and capacity won't kill you.

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 9:41:08 PM UTC-4, J L wrote:

Hello all,

I would love to hear how folks have set up a bike for camping duty. Any sage advice? I am looking forward to a time where I can ride out from the house, do one or two overnights, and ride home.

Let’s say in this scenario I am doing more than putting stuff in a backpack or bike basket and going.

Jason
SF, CA

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[Jason Fuller]

There is a huge wealth of information available on places like bikepacking.com - there are a lot of fancy setups, but one of the foundation principles of bike packing / touring is that ingenuity and creativity is a great replacement for money. Also "bikepacking" is typically considered to be on rougher terrain than "touring", hence most "bikepacking" bags are designed to be soft mounted. This is a much stronger solution than racks are for sustained vibration and shock loads. 

But for typical 1-3 night trips, a rear pannier rack with roomy panniers, a tent strapped to the top deck of the rack, and a bag of some kind lashed to your handlebars is perfect IMO.  

[Adam Leibow]

Below is a pic of my most recent S24O setup. Pass & stow front rack w/ Wald 137 & Tunitas Carryall 137 basket bag. DFL Stitchworks saddle bag. This is a pretty minimal setup which would not be suitable for more than one or two nights unless panniers or a bigger rear bag were added. I like the combination of basket bag (which is hugely voluminous for being just a Wald 137) and a soft saddle bag (I also have a Bags X Bird bag which is also hugely voluminous but not required for a one-nighter IMO). 

I carried the following:

tent

sleeping bag

sweatshirt

water

burrito

beers

flashlight

snacks

[Craig Montgomery]

So Jason, you're talking S24O/S48O, right? I start out by asking two questions: 1) What's the weather going to be like? And 2) What's water availability? 

The first question determines Puffy Jacket and fleece pants or light sweatshirt and shorts. 50 degree bag or 30 degree bag.  You're lucky if water is not an issue, but here in the Southwest it can make or break a ride (and you). It adds weight and takes room. If there's water, a couple of 24 oz. hydroflasks on the bike is sufficient. If there's no water, 2 liters in the packs minimum depending on heat index. I like coffee, and water in my whiskey. 

I'm a tent person only under duress. Like waking up at 3:00 am and communing with the Universe. A tarp if rain is possible. A tent if bugs threaten or I'm in a real campground with real people (Ugh!). Geography, geography. 

The Brits nailed this down over 6 decades ago. Saddlebags, front and rear. 

Everything else are just variations on a theme. Anyway you go is fine. But don't fall into a money pit. Simple and easy. I go Saddlebags first>Saddlebags + panniers (front or rear)>Saddlebags + panniers (front and rear). The beauty of this system is that you can just throw stuff into your bags without thinking/worrying about packing and you don't need specialized, i.e. expensive, equipment. You're escaping for a quickie. Not mounting an expedition. 

Here's my kit for a quick overnighter, water available, good weather, 30 miles out. 

         

On the other hand, into the backcountry 35 miles, hardpack to jeep track, no water, hot, upper 30's at night, good chance of rain.  

Decide what you need and lay it all out on the living room floor. That's the fun part. Then get rid of a quarter of it. If you're young you can survive with a lot less than an old fart like me. There's even a campchair in one of those panniers!  This stuff is fun, isn't it? 

Craig in Tucson 

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 6:41:08 PM UTC-7, J L wrote:

[J L]

This thread is super helpful everyone. Keep the ideas and experiences coming if you have them.

Jason

[Steven Sweedler]

Here are some of my bikes over the last several years My current ride, a Surly Troll.

 A coupled Thorn Sherpa on the ferry from La Paz to Mazatlan, Mx. Out for 4 months. This was my main ride for 9 years. 

Cyclops road racing frame, w/Nashbar Daytripper panniers, before I had a touring bike, 1996, Rode from Seattle to SF.

A Surly Ogre that I rode on the Great Divide.  Steve

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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

[Deacon Patrick]

Hey Jason! Here's my prototype Gus Boots last year: https://deaconpatrick.org/three-days-three-states-three-countries-by-beorn-the-bikepacking-wonder

With abandon,

Patrick

[Max S]

That’s an amazing adventure and write-up / photo journal, Patrick!

- Max “tripping vicariously while recounting that Vonnegut (?) thing about 6 seasons, for April is a mess onto itself” in A2

[ted]

Ahh, slush. Grew up with it, don’t miss it.

[Drw]

Here’s me for 2 nights. Tent in frame bag, food in front, everything else on the back. Also have James’ stem there.

[Robert Tilley]

I do like racks and panniers for road tours. I think it works really well. I'm thinking I will add my frame bag for road tours as well since it's great place to add weight.

For my off-road tours I've been trying to fine tune my setup. Right now I use a BxB Goldback on the bars, a Porcelain Rocket frame bag and a set of Porcelain Rocket micro panniers on the rear. These are basically slings that hold dry bags. I have used a large Arkel seat bag and like it but felt that small panniers may work better for me. I also have a number of anything cages I can add if needed.

I have actually gone back to having racks front and rear on my bikepacking bike. I like them since they make the bike more versatile and my racks have mounts for anything cages on both sides. I don't care much about weight although lighter is better. The racks are worth the weight for me.

My current off-road platform is here:

https://roberttilley.smugmug.com/Bicycles/Tumbleweed-Prospector/i-GnrcTkw/A

Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA

Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device

  Original Message  

Hello all,

Jason
SF, CA

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[Craig Montgomery]

Here's a fun one for you Jason. From the master himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny81vcxTZQk 

Ian always said what you take for the weekend is the same as what you take around the world. The only difference is the amount of food and water. Of course when he said it we didn't have satellite weather like now. So you had to be prepared for anything and everything. Have been looking for a stove like that but they're pretty pricey now.

Craig in Tucson, rereading my "Into the Remote Places" 

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 6:41:08 PM UTC-7, J L wrote:

[Jeffrey Arita]

Hello Jason,

IMHO cyclo-touring/bikepacking or whatever you want to call it, there is no right or wrong.  I think the key is just to get out there.  I agree, that first step is the hardest.  One caveat though: If you do go out, you may never want to come back ;)

I attached a pic of my rig for the GDMBR.  My wife's bike was eerily similar.  This was Summer 2017.  Again, there is no right or wrong.  We encountered a guy riding an older bike in which he attached 5-gallon plastic buckets as his panniers (covered in plastic wrap for waterproofing).  It worked for him.

Finally: Most people will attest that when one carries this much stuff you can go for 1 night, 1 week, or 1 month (depending upon the weather of course).

Good luck and have fun!

Jeff

Claremont, CA

On Sunday, April 19, 2020 at 6:41:08 PM UTC-7, J L wrote:

[Neil Doran]

Collin, I really dug the photos of your Clem, lots of great ways to camp on that bike! Especially love the bottle behind the seat tube.

Would love to hear more about that Lava Beds route, if you could elaborate...

[Neil Doran]

Great thread, looks like most of the options are covered!

In honing my Riv-style dirtbagging setup, I've found it is very hard to beat a front basket on a solid rack with a bungee net to handle overflow. That is the core of my system, paired with a Carsick bartender bag and a Swift burrito bag. That is a lot of front-end storage, which I love. I add an Acorn transverse saddle bag, an older one which is about 7L or so. Can also strap stuff outside the saddle bag if necessary.

This system is good for several nights as long as I don't need to ferry too much food or water.

[Collin A]

Well aren't you in luck...wrote it up about a year ago. Links to the route are at the bottom

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17d158deQiEkjr8pvIZfszoqJQqghZVNFzBsoZmqhg-E/edit?usp=sharing

 And thanks for the compliments on the clem, it definitely serves well as a mostly blank and adaptable canvas.

[Bill Schairer]

Collin,

Thanks for the great write-up, photos, and maps! I’m saving that for future reference.

Bill S

[Neil Doran]

Thanks Collin! I've noodled the very southern end of that route on a three-day loop out of Chester. Spent two days and nights hunkered down at Manzanita Lake due to rain and snow. The weather cleared miraculously for us and we boogied down through Old Station. I'll never forget the view looking back at Lassen with a fresh jacket of snow. Just love that area.

Hey, your track ends at Summit Lake...did someone meet you there for transport, or did you turn around and ride back to Klamath?

[Collin A]

Nice, glad the hunkering was rewarded with a lovely view of the mountain! I was hoping to spend time this summer exploring the area, but that looks less likely each week...

I met up with friends at summit lake for labor day weekend, then we drove home.

I've been half-assing a route trying to connect Truckee and Lassen for the past year, but I think with the time I have now I should be able to start pulling that route together more seriously. It would ideally connect through Quincy and Downieville, so I should be able to pull resources from Sierra Buttes Trails to build the route. I already have a route that connects Sac and Truckee with mostly dirt, so once this chunk gets finished you could make a train trip to Klammath Falls and finish at Amtrak in Sacramento. Maybe ~500 miles with a boat load of climbing over 7-12 days.

Sorry for the thread drift everyone!

Collin in Sac

[Neil Doran]

Collin, perhaps we could continue the thread drift a bit, because the 'east side Lost Sierra' route you are describing has been of large interest to me as well. My initial version is to ride from home (Rocklin) to Truckee, north around Stampede Reservoir and generally along the HWY 89 corridor through Sierra Valley (my happy place!). Maybe make it as far north as Lake Davis, then back through Portola and Graegle, up through Lakes Basin, Downieville, and some route home from there. Maybe 3-4 days for that?

All great riding, but the first part from Rocklin to Truckee is a bit daunting. The most straightforward route I have found is Foresthill Divide out to Soda Springs Road, which connects to Old 40 at Donner Pass. That would be a day and a half of riding for me, and only the Soda Springs part is dirt, unless I wanted to be creative and ride the Western States.

Are you able to share your route from Sac to Truckee?

[Clark Fitzgerald]

+1 I would love to see that route from Sac to Truckee. I was looking at a route through Foresthill.

[Collin A]

Neil & Others,

The loop you are describing sounds super nice, have you done it before (assuming yes, but want to confirm)?

The route I'm working on to Truckee/Donner is a climb-heavy route, maybe 2 days (only done sections for recon). Probably best not to ride western states ;)

The route I intially did follows what you are describing (Foresthill -> mosquito ridge -> french meadows reservoir -> soda springs -> Donner), again, dirt really only on soda springs. What I am trying to figure out still is if I can avoid mosquito ridge for longer and take the ridge (forest road 14N25/31/41 through el dorado national forest) between Hell Hole reservoir (rubicon river) and French Meadows (Middle Fork American River) to then connect to soda springs. It's less direct, has more dirt (and logging areas), and is maybe more scenic?

Collin, currently combing through USGS quad maps

[David Baldi]

Hi all,

I love camping with the Medium saddlesack. I have enough just enough clearance to run the bag without any support (first run 59 Clem, PBH 90.5), but I have a Mark's rack back there now and like having the extra stability. I have a cheap Soma rack upfront with a 137 Wald. For a three night trip through the San Rafael's (Bosco pics), I kept lighter stuff in the basket plus one camelback bladder, and lashed stuffsacks to the underside. We had to carry 13 liters each of water on this trip—I taped waterbottle cages everywhere, as you will see, and carried two bladders in the saddlebag, in addition to the camelback up front. No tent, still plenty of room, but heavy! But I was so comfortable the whole time. Weight distribution felt really good. For S24Os I do the more or less the same, without the stuff sacks, and think I will sew a shallow framebag for when I need to bring a tent (I am lashing it to the toptube currently, as in the pictures). I am always surprised how much you can do with saddlebag + basket.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1vLqhnwyJxNdbyJPA

: )

David

[Clark Fitzgerald]

13 L of water- wow!!

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[Robert Tilley]

When we rode the White Rim Road in Utah there was no accessible water to filter so we also carried 13L each in with us. I added a rack to my bike for that trip and strapped a 10L dromedary bag on top and also carried a 3L hydration bladder. I'd much rather carry a filter but we had no choice on that trip.

Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA

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[Patrick Moore]

Not camping, but plenty of shopping: I found that the Medium was even more useful than the Large; for some reason, I could carry almost as much in the smaller one as in the larger one.

Eventually went back (as always) to panniers, but always (as always) think about another Rivendell saddlebag (have plenty of Carradices) and, in fact, was even just now reviewing current Riv saddlebag choices.

Photo from some 5-6-7 years ago back before the 2003 Riv (2006 Dave Porter modified) had been even further modified with f/r racks, fenders, Elk Pass tires (it is currently the sacrificial model for a 2020 Chauncey Matthews clone, and the f+f+f/r racks+fenders will probably be offered for sale on this list in a month or 2).

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[Craig Montgomery]

Welcome to the Southwest. Nothing is more miserable than running out of water. I immediately start going into coffee withdrawals. In one of Heinz Stucke's 

stories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_St%C3%BCcke  he talks of running out somewhere in Ethiopia I think and having to go 2 or 3 days in its hot desert clime, pushing his bike through sand much of the way. That's body bag stuff. 

Here's Ian Hibbel in the Sahara, note blue containers. 

Craig who has nightmares of upchucking dust in Tucson   https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=tHVpJGXZ21o

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[Jock Dewey]

Jason:

Should maybe include a list of disclaimers -- I don't necessarily recommend following my tracks. But you can ride coast to coast just like this if you're crazy enough and don't know the difference.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/146626768@N06/39787656583/in/album-72157704309319711/

BTW, Craig's the expert, follow his advice not mine.

Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

[J L]

Thanks! 

On Apr 20, 2020, at 11:54 PM, Craig Montgomery <cmontg...@cox.net> wrote:



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[J L]

I like this attitude. There is no right of wrong. 

One tip I have learned from this thread was to plan for my water consumption. That was the sort of no brainer thing that I never considered. I was happy to learn from someone else’s experience. 

Jason

On Apr 21, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Jeffrey Arita <jeffre...@gmail.com> wrote:



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<IMG_20170817_141544999_HDR (2).jpg>

[Craig Montgomery]

"I like this attitude. There is no right of wrong. One tip I have learned from this thread was to plan for my water consumption. That was the sort of no brainer thing that I never considered. I was happy to learn from someone else’s experience." 

Jason

      Yes. Yes. And yes.  Gave a talk/slideshow along with several other bike tourists, at Transit Cycles here in Tucson about 2-3 years ago. Each talk ended with questions and one fella consistently asked "What were you most concerned about?" Except for the Northwest tourists and one who toured the Allegheny Trail (?), the rest (AZ, CO, ID and Mongolia), consistently answered, "The availability of water." Water is volume heavy and weight heavy. No water or the worry of your next source can change the color of any tour. You have to plan ahead or carry beyond what you think you need. It's better to have it and not need it than...

Craig in Tucson

You need water to cook

You need water to drink

There's water for coffee

A necessity I think

So have lots around

And keep those dishes clean

But mostly it's for my whiskey

If you know what I mean

              Burma Shave

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