PSA: The Brooks B17 might not be right for you

[Lawrence Marcus]

After years of thinking about buying a Rivendell, I ordered my Charlie Gallop with a Brooks B17 because, of course, that's the appropriate saddle for a Riv.

I found the Brooks to be tolerable on short rides, but in six months of riding it never really softened and after ending a 20-miler sore, I decided it was time to try something else. After considering Selle Anatomica and many others, I decided to go far — FAR in the opposite direction and demoed a 3D-printed saddle — the Specialized Romin Evo.

The surface was more comfortable. But what shocked me was that pedaling felt much, much better because the shape was, apparently, a radically better fit for my anatomy. The Romin is marketed as being for an "aggressive" positions, which I don't think I ride in. But neither do I ride bolt-upright, and the Brooks seems to have been constricting my movement. Maybe I'd do better with a B17 Narrow.

It's hard to think of a less philosophically compatible component for a Rivendell than a 3D-printed saddle, but I'm keeping this thing because it feels damn good.

[Eric Daume]

I’ve never rode a B17 that I liked (including the narrow). Hard, slippery, unforgiving. But I am quite enjoying the Brooks C17 that I picked up a while ago. It’s still a sort of classic look, but a more modern take on it, still has bag loops, but weatherproof and comfortable. 

I liked the C17 enough that I wondered if a C15 would be a good fit for my drop bar bike. Not so much. Much harder and narrower. 

Eric 

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[Garth]

When it comes to saddles and butts, whatever works, works. I've tried Brooks/other like saddles in the past and found them all torture devices. I was about to try a 3d printed saddle before I found the Ergon SM Comp saddles suited me. 

[Ron Mc]

My daughter loved B67 on her upright.  

When she built her go-fast (with my help) on '86 Team Fuji frame, we tried saddle after saddle, 

B17S (carved), Specialized, Anatomica (leather - free trial), and found her Ahhhhh!! spot on Fabric Radius.  

Made in UK, Fabric is nylon pan that acts similar to Brooks, but with minimal padding and breathing fabric top layer.  

Me, I'm easy - B17 on semi-upright, Swallow and Pro on aggressive drop-bars.  

I don't believe the myth of leather saddle break-in, but matching saddle shape/width to riding position is important.  

I've always stretched out low-grade Brooks saddles after a summer of sweat, so I stick to the thicker S- and L/E grades.  

The L/E grades, I've found some killer close-outs for $100, and stashed multiple saddles for later projects and replacements.  

2012 World Traveler L/E

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[Ron Mc]

Sorry, make that B68S on my daughter's upright

[Johnny Alien]

I tried Brooks for years but in the end decided there were way better saddles for me personally. Better looking saddles? Nope not by a long shot. But better comfort for me 100%. My absolute favorite it the old Fizik Aliante saddles. I don't care for the new redesigned ones so with brand new saddles I also found the Fabric Radius to be top notch. Closest to the Aliante that I can find and more affordable on top of that.

[Brian Turner]

Personally I think Berthoud saddles have all other saddles beat across the board. Especially Brooks. The build quality and leather is sooo much nicer and robust. And, with many of their models, you can easily swap out tops or rebuild them completely.

Brian

Lexington KY

On Jun 26, 2026, at 8:41 AM, Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> wrote:

I tried Brooks for years but in the end decided there were way better saddles for me personally. Better looking saddles? Nope not by a long shot. But better comfort for me 100%. My absolute favorite it the old Fizik Aliante saddles. I don't care for the new redesigned ones so with brand new saddles I also found the Fabric Radius to be top notch. Closest to the Aliante that I can find and more affordable on top of that.

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[Elisabeth Sherwood]

Lawrence,

You definitely shouldn't feel bad about a Brooks saddle not working out for you!  Years ago I worked (and worked) to have one on a bike, and it just always killed me.  I'm kind of surprised there wasn't permanent damage.  It was just the wrong shape for me -- end of story.  I still can't even look at a B17 without a bit of PTSD.  

The Specialized Romin Evo is a GREAT saddle!  And you don't even have to go with the 3-D printed version -- the Comp level ones (I'm partial to the ones with Mimic) are just fantastic.  Great sit-bone support, and a nice little "cradle".

(That said, I've found that the WTB Volt -- the Chromoly level -- hits the sweet spot.  It has just a bit more cushion than the Romin Evo.  I tend to buy an extra one when REI has them on sale "just in case".)

Cheers,

Liz

Washington, DC

On Friday, June 26, 2026 at 12:20:03 AM UTC-4 lawrenc...@gmail.com wrote:

[Cyclofiend Jim]

The B17 never worked for me. Too wide. 

I found the Brooks Swift to be a much better option. They tend to be thicker than the 17's, but it was never the firmness of the surface that was the problem.

There's not one "right" saddle shape. Y'gotta honor physiological diversity...

Jim

[Manoucher Brahman]

Have been riding on B17 for over 19 years. It is a tough saddle and I do not think it can get “ softened enough “ in dry climates. I soak it in olive oil for 36-48 hours once a year. It is unorthodox but has been working fine for me. 

Best

Manoucher in San Jose CA 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 25, 2026, at 9:20 PM, Lawrence Marcus <lawrenc...@gmail.com> wrote:

After years of thinking about buying a Rivendell, I ordered my Charlie Gallop with a Brooks B17 because, of course, that's the appropriate saddle for a Riv.

I found the Brooks to be tolerable on short rides, but in six months of riding it never really softened and after ending a 20-miler sore, I decided it was time to try something else. After considering Selle Anatomica and many others, I decided to go far — FAR in the opposite direction and demoed a 3D-printed saddle — the Specialized Romin Evo.

The surface was more comfortable. But what shocked me was that pedaling felt much, much better because the shape was, apparently, a radically better fit for my anatomy. The Romin is marketed as being for an "aggressive" positions, which I don't think I ride in. But neither do I ride bolt-upright, and the Brooks seems to have been constricting my movement. Maybe I'd do better with a B17 Narrow.

It's hard to think of a less philosophically compatible component for a Rivendell than a 3D-printed saddle, but I'm keeping this thing because it feels damn good.

--

[Ron Mc]

That's likely why it is personal - I've always found Berthoud saddles too rigid, while my best bud (since 6th grade) has Berthoud on every bike.  

(Schwinn World Sport built with SRAM 2-speed auto hub, and has that 1st version Acorn bar bag someone is looking for)

Heck, I put 40,000 mi on Unicanitor nylon pan with pigskin cover, supplemented with Concor when the pigskin faded through - but that history likely leans to the preference for hammock saddle, and S. Texas heat excludes padding and excess layers.  

[Mr. Ray]

My own experience is before the recently released Brooks B17 Utmost, Brooks leather saddles came in 2 different thickness.  The leather in the black saddles was always a bit thinner than the leather in the brown and honey saddles.  This made black leather saddles easier to break-in and thus more comfortable.  The thicker leather also breaks in but may take longer (dependent on your body weight).

Saddles are a very personal choice (based on your sit bones and riding angle).  If you view the Brooks website and look at the B17 in the various colors, you can see the difference in the leathers thickness.

On Friday, June 26, 2026 at 12:20:03 AM UTC-4 lawrenc...@gmail.com wrote:

[Ryan Fleming]

That Utmost looks a bit like the Select(in terms of quality and thickness of the leather which was also vegetable-tanned IIRC) they sold that was discontinued between 5 and 10 years ago...I have a Select on the mixte I ordered from Riv at the end of 2015 and received early 2017...might have been   $178 US when I ordered it for the build...so...$248 and change now. I guess those premium hides are a limited supply and don't come cheap

[Lawrence Marcus]

Ha, thank you for the validation Liz. I considered trying a Comp Romin, then figured that if I liked it I'd immediately develop a nagging curiosity about the Mirror. I'll keep this in mind for next time, though.

Johnny, I agree, Brooks does have the market cornered in terms of aesthetics.

On Friday, June 26, 2026 at 6:41:50 AM UTC-7 Elisabeth Sherwood wrote:

[Zachary Cannon]

I'm another who has never gotten along with leather saddles: Brooks of all shapes and sizes, a Rivet, a Selle Anatonimica, an Ideal. None worked after thousand of miles. They're so handsome, I really gave them a chance.

I too am a happy Specialized user. I've been on 168mm Romins for thousands of miles and also get along with the 168 Power. I found a deal on a 155mm 3d printed Power, and I'm also impressed.  Brook C17 work for me for up to about 50mile road rides and then chafe. The other saddle that I like and use on shared mountain bikes with my son is the Fabric Scoop Shallow. For me, the revelation was the 168mm wide Specialized options. 

As others have said, saddles are so personal that there no one right option. Multiple width as well as lots of saddle choice feels like a good thing to me.

Best, Zach in ABQ

[Ron Mc]

Thanks for Rivet - I was trying to think of the name before - that's the free-trial saddle that didn't pass the test for my daughter.  

For me, they just stretched out crazy fast - I have years now on the Swallow Select that replaced my last Rivet.  

[Patrick Moore]

Another one am I. I’ve tried half a dozen Brooks and other makers’ models and the closest to working were the Pro and the Fujita “Belt” saddle. The Pro: I could not get the tilt right; I was always either sliding forward or being goosed. I got the Fujita in the right position, but even after many miles it felt like sitting on a concrete bench. But all my original issue Flites disappear under me, that is, as long as I have the bike properly set up. 

But yes, Brookses, esp the better ones, are pretty; I have a new Swallow (?? Not sure; it’s a top racing saddle in thick leather never ridden) that came with the Roadeo. I keep, as with my Suntour XC Pro rat traps and various other lovely but unridden bike parts, simply because it’s so pretty.

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[Patrick Moore]

Actually, the number of leather-on-frame saddles I’ve tried over 40 years is closer to a full dozen.

[anthony r.]

To Each Their Own! But put B17 Til Death on my tombstone - Thee Ride or Die!

[J]

I struggled through and conquered a handful of B17s chamois free for over a decade until my butt finally gave out and refused to allow me a carefree bike ride longer than around the block. I started wearing padded chamois and moved to Berthoud Aspin until the discomfort followed after a couple years of relaxing saddle time. I can still ride a Berthoud with a chamois but switched to the cutout version for needed pressure relief. I've courted many a synthetic padded saddle in the last couple years without much success until recently when I took a WTB Volt chromoly off my nephews MTB collecting dust in the rafters and found that it is darn near perfect, if a bit narrow at the 135mm size. I bought a titanium 142mm Volt and it's a completely different saddle now and not great. I guess they overhauled the line since his was made. The Volts from 4 years ago are pretty fantastic. I've don't even like the look of a Brooks saddle anymore, and at one time it was the only saddle I thought looked right on a bike. 

[Patrick Moore]

I’m curious: how many others gauge the personal comfort of a saddle (*) by the fact that they can ride it without noticing it while wearing (well fitting, of course) ordinary underwear and pants? At any rate, I’ve been very fortunate to find the original early 1990’s Flite perfectly invisible up to 30 miles, at least, wearing just civvies under and over; and for 50+ miles, I wear snug merino boxer-briefs under the same civvie-style, un-padded cycling shorts, notably the Rapha Randonee shorts.

(*) Ditto for hands: with the right bar and hoods, and with bar set up properly with respect to saddle, and saddle in the right place, I find that even on 50 mile rides I don’t need gloves; I forgot my sole pair of gloves on early May’s 54 mile ride and didn’t realize I’d forgotten them until after the ride.

Of course, everyone’s ass is different, but perhaps there exists a Platonic Archetype of saddle + shorts + bar for each individual …?

[Garth]

Hey Patrick, I was looking through Ben's Cycle vintage NOS items they're selling on ebay and they have a number or NOS Flites in various versions. Not to mention all the other vintage NOS parts they're selling. 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html_dkr=1&iconV2Request=true&_blrs=recall_filtering&_ssn=benscycle&store_name=benscycleandfitness&_oac=1&_nkw=selle%20italia%20flite

[Ron Mc]

A comfortable saddle is invisible - it's something you never think about.  

Interesting, my buddy who's 100% Berthoud was 100% Flite before that (we've been riding bikes since 6th Grade, and we both turn 70 next year).  

 - I have a Flite of his that he recommended I try, and it was never invisible for me.  

If saddle makes you want pants padding, chafing creams, etc. keep trying for a different saddle.  

[Johnny Alien]

As I got older I switched to always having bike specific padded shorts or underwear. If its a situation where being obvious isn't weird then I just wear the shorts but if its not I go with underwear under regular shorts. But the honest truth is that its just WAY more comfortable regardless of saddle and I am all about comfort these days.

[Bernard Duhon]

Never white tities unless short city trips.

Padded shorts only for day one or 2 of week plus ride ( just in case) Rest of the ride Under armor style synthetic shorts that reach down the thigh & mimic biker shorts (without a pad) under regular Rivi style pants.. 

Riding 3 days a week for 60 or so miles total Under armor style synthetic shorts that reach down the thigh.  Are fine. 

I am of advanced age. 

 

 

 

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From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2026 8:26 AM
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: The Brooks B17 might not be right for you

 

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[Tyler Johnson]

+1 to listening to your butt bones because individual results may vary. 

I used to ride super comfy Terry saddles during the 90s and 00s, but my butt would go numb after 40 miles. 

I eventually switched to no padding and hard saddles. Counterintuitive, but my butt says OK even on long rides.  

Tyler in ABQ

Also, @ Zach and Patrick: I will buy your old B17s if you want them to go away. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/PH0PR17MB769386D13155621E28604FF5CDF62%40PH0PR17MB7693.namprd17.prod.outlook.com.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Garth, but I’ve already got a stash that’s probably larger than I need. But always worth a look at that site.

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[Roberta]

My first leather saddle was a B17 with my Joe Appaloosa. It was good but not great.  Sella Anatomica was better, but still not right for me.  Got my sits bones measured at 16 mm, which helped explain the not so great fit. I switched to a B 68 and found Nirvana for many years.  

This year though seemingly all of a sudden, I’m very uncomfortable on the B 68 after about 10 miles.  My sits bones are fine, but the soft tissue up front is not.  Same bikes, same saddles for years.  I’m going to experiment with tilting the nose down a bit, but I also got an imperial style cut out on one B 68 and I cannot wait to put it back on my Betty Foy and try it out. 

Getting my sit bones measured really helped me look for other saddles and help me stay away from the ones that would be too narrow for me. 

Roberta

Philadelphia

[Chris Halasz]

Roberta 

I have the B68 Imperial with cutout, and will be curious to hear your experience. Seems to me that Brooks wisely fabricated the saddle with a thicker and firmer leather than the standard B68. I bought both as new old stuff, at the same time, for comparison. 

For reference, my sitbones are ~13cm, but I'm bolt upright on my Dutch-configured bike. 

And, FWIW, I'm still curious to try the wider Berthoud saddle, which is almost a couple inches narrower than a B68, and curious, too, to try the odd SQLabs wider saddles - but not that curious. 

- Chris 

[John Bokman]

I am interested in the discussion as it pertains to one's liking for a saddle (even having it be "the one") and then, for unknown reasons, it fails to provide comfort. This is just the case with my Berthoud Aspins. After using the B.17s and a short stint with a Selle Anatomica (did not work for me!), I moved onto the Aspin. It took forever to break them in (I used a chamois-lined cycling short), but break they eventually did. Comfortable enough to ride without chamois for several years, although on really long rides (for me, being 60 miles or more) I  want the protection of the chamois/pad). 

For unkown reasons, I now have pain in one sitzbone even on short rides. Keep thinking it will disappear, but it does not. Having said this, I've ridden these saddles for about 10 years now. And only in the last few months have experienced pain in one sitzbone. I've tightened the saddle, thinking it has become too sloppy. Does not help. Loosened it again, and that does not help, either. Gooped it and cured in the sun. Rode it damp...nothing has helped.

Interestingly, I pulled the B.17 off my daughter's bike, and find that I don't have sitzbone pain except very briefly, then it goes away. But the problem with the Brooks is that it crushes my perineum unless I ensure the saddle is absolutely level. I also find that the skirting is  too wide for my (thin) thighs. All to say, it's not perfect, but so far, has been better for my sitzbone pain.

Question: Why does one experience pain in a region that has been "fine" for years? Just, seemingly, like that? (In my case, my weight has not changed, I'm in roughly the same physical condition, ride the same amount, in the same position on the saddle, and etc.)

John

On Wednesday, July 1, 2026 at 6:56:49 PM UTC-7 Roberta wrote:

[Roberta]

Chris—I didn’t realize that the B68 ever came in the imperial style. Does your’s have holes for laces?  Simon from Firth and Wilson did the work for me and didn’t comment about lacing, but I could see how I might need it in the future. He said the saddle looked fine and didn’t look like it needed any kind of tensioning (I never have tension it).The leather does seem thick, but then again I had bought it off of one of the participants here at the board, so it’s an older saddle. 

John – – it’s the darndest thing!.  Now I did lose weight but I can’t imagine actually that would be it, but I do have to put that information here.   Leah, Bicycle Belle ding ding, had a more reasonable suggestion – – after years of bumping up and down on the saddle, the tilted nose  is now just a little too much tilted.    That actually makes sense to me, especially since I like my saddle, kind of tilted far up to begin with, as I like the part, I’m sitting on to be rather flat.  And I might not have tightened the saddle onto the seat post as tight as a guy could get it.  Maybe years of bouncing on it pushed it that 1/2 of a mm that would make a difference for me.

It’s 104° here today and supposed to be over 100° for the rest of the weekend so I won’t be tryingit out for quite a few days.  This weekend, you’ll find me on a standup paddleboard.  And, jumping in the water to cool off.

Roberta

[Roberta]

Oh, I did forget to comment that this problem is now on both bikes– – Homer and Betty Foy – – not just one, both with B 68s. 

Roberta

[Eric Kidwell]

Hello friends,

I’m building an Appaloosa and trying to decide on a saddle. I love the look of the Berthoud open(carved) model but I’m a bit worried about pinching. Any recommendations?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 1, 2026, at 4:54 AM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Patrick, I was looking through Ben's Cycle vintage NOS items they're selling on ebay and they have a number or NOS Flites in various versions. Not to mention all the other vintage NOS parts they're selling. 

[Ron Mc]

Hi Eric,  

If you read through the thread, you should recognize taking another's recommendation on a saddle you've never tried is always a dice roll.  

FWIW, the couple of carved saddles I've tried, pinch was never an issue, but I'm always riding in MUSA (+aerotech) baggy shorts and knickers.  

Again, my problem with carved Rivet was excess stretch rate, but I had the same problem with low-grade B-17.  

I suspect Berthoud Aspin construction won't share this problem.  

[john Bokman]

I ordered (had in hand) a carved Aspin purchased through Ben’s Cycle Ebay shop. It was incredibly thick leather. I measured 6mm thick. I have ridden atop the regular Berthoud Aspin for years, so I’m well familiar with the saddles.  It was so hard and thick that I decided, since I don’t ride with chamois/padded shorts anymore, that I was not man enough to break it. Returned to Bens.

Thus, I very much doubt you’d have to worry about pinch. I did experience bad pinching with a Selle Anatomica saddle from years ago. That was horrible!

John

On Jul 3, 2026, at 4:31 AM, Ron Mc <bulld...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Eric,  

If you read through the thread, you should recognize taking another's recommendation on a saddle you've never tried is always a dice roll.  

FWIW, the couple of carved saddles I've tried, pinch was never an issue, but I'm always riding in MUSA (+aerotech) baggy shorts and knickers.  

Again, my problem with carved Rivet was excess stretch rate, but I had the same problem with low-grade B-17.  

I suspect Berthoud Aspin construction won't share this problem.  

<8QficUJ.jpg>

On Friday, July 3, 2026 at 1:18:26 AM UTC-5 Eric Kidwell wrote:

Hello friends,

I’m building an Appaloosa and trying to decide on a saddle. I love the look of the Berthoud open(carved) model but I’m a bit worried about pinching. Any recommendations?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 1, 2026, at 4:54 AM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Patrick, I was looking through Ben's Cycle vintage NOS items they're selling on ebay and they have a number or NOS Flites in various versions. Not to mention all the other vintage NOS parts they're selling. 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html_dkr=1&iconV2Request=true&_blrs=recall_filtering&_ssn=benscycle&store_name=benscycleandfitness&_oac=1&_nkw=selle%20italia%20flite

On Tuesday, June 30, 2026 at 11:43:53 PM UTC-4 bert...@gmail.com wrote:

I’m curious: how many others gauge the personal comfort of a saddle (*) by the fact that they can ride it without noticing it while wearing (well fitting, of course) ordinary underwear and pants? At any rate, I’ve been very fortunate to find the original early 1990’s Flite perfectly invisible up to 30 miles, at least, wearing just civvies under and over; and for 50+ miles, I wear snug merino boxer-briefs under the same civvie-style, un-padded cycling shorts, notably the Rapha Randonee shorts.

(*) Ditto for hands: with the right bar and hoods, and with bar set up properly with respect to saddle, and saddle in the right place, I find that even on 50 mile rides I don’t need gloves; I forgot my sole pair of gloves on early May’s 54 mile ride and didn’t realize I’d forgotten them until after the ride.

Of course, everyone’s ass is different, but perhaps there exists a Platonic Archetype of saddle + shorts + bar for each individual …?

On Tue, Jun 30, 2026 at 8:01 PM J <illum...@gmail.com> wrote:

I struggled through and conquered a handful of B17s chamois free for over a decade until my butt finally gave out and refused to allow me a carefree bike ride longer than around the block. I started wearing padded chamois and moved to Berthoud Aspin until the discomfort followed after a couple years of relaxing saddle time. I can still ride a Berthoud with a chamois but switched to the cutout version for needed pressure relief. I've courted many a synthetic padded saddle in the last couple years without much success until recently when I took a WTB Volt chromoly off my nephews MTB collecting dust in the rafters and found that it is darn near perfect, if a bit narrow at the 135mm size. I bought a titanium 142mm Volt and it's a completely different saddle now and not great. I guess they overhauled the line since his was made. The Volts from 4 years ago are pretty fantastic. I've don't even like the look of a Brooks saddle anymore, and at one time it was the only saddle I thought looked right on a bike. 

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<8QficUJ.jpg>

[Chris Halasz]

Roberta 

Yes, this kinda rare B68 does have holes for laces, and I've yet to tension it. Much firmer than my just-as-new standard (but honey-colored, if that makes a difference) B68, but breaking in, without any treatments, very nicely. 

Anyone else ever notice how the Brooks saddles, textured like this B68, tend to stain less? 

[Ron Mc]

I had to lace a Select after 10 years.