Flat Pedal Users: Favorite size/shape?

[John Bokman]

Hi all.

I've been riding VP Vice pedals for a few years now. It took a long while (aprx. a year) to get used to riding flats, coming from Speedplay Frogs. Finally, it took, and I'm happy on the flats for my commuter (Sam Hill).

However, the Vice have developed play, rattle a bit, and generally feel gritty, and I have been experimenting with different ideas. I've recently used the old MKS Touring pedals, and RMX sneaker pedals. These are okay, but what I've discovered is that for my riding,  flats without connection (no clips/straps, powergrips) feel better underfoot with a fairly large platform, and low stack height,  like the Vice. And yet I know many of you enjoy the Riv-approved MKS Gamma, lambda, and Allways models. All of these appear to be taller, and all are narrower than the vice. And yet...I wonder: how big is big enough? I'm not racing downhill, fully padded and helmeted, on a double boinger, like my neice. I just ride my bike here and there, long distances, when time allows.

I always want to support Riv when possible. But I am looking at many other pedals that Riv does not sell. What are some of your favorites, and why? For what use? If you use the aforementioned MKS pedals, what is your opinion of them? Do you like the size/shape? I'm wondering if the length of the pedal is more important than the width. The Gamma, Lambda, and Allways, for instance, are all longer than the Vice, while being slimmer. 

Thanks.

John

[Jay Lonner]

I really, really like the Catalyst pedals from Pedaling Innovations:

https://pedalinginnovations.com/

Thin, long, wide, grippy – they check all the boxes for me. I ride wearing either Vans, Chucks, or Keens, none of which offer much support (esp. the Chucks) and there’s enough real estate on the pedal to keep me comfortable all day. I’ve tried all the options that Riv sells and have replaced them with Catalysts, with the exception of my Bike Friday where I use MKS rinko pedals for ease of packing:

https://www.renehersecycles.com/shop/components/pedals/mks-allways-pedals-ezy-superior-rinko-2/

These are also great, esp. for their intended application, but the Catalysts are just 👨‍🍳 😘👌

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Mar 16, 2022, at 6:24 PM, John Bokman <jpbc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all.

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[Damien]

I have been using Blackspire Sub Four pedals on my Bombora, and SimWorks Bubbly Pedals on my Sam. Both are pretty great and I'd recommend. The Blackspire pedals are suuuuuper grippy - almost too grippy? Whatever, I don't hate it and they do feel really nice when ripping around on trails. The SimWorks pedals are just really pretty (got them in Copper). Not as grippy but honestly a good amount of grip for my purposes with the Sam, and a nice platform. Look a bit chunky, but I'm over it and actually enjoy the way they look.

https://www.sim.works/products/bubbly-pedals?variant=37871655911598

https://www.blackspire.com/product/sub-four-pedals/

I had MKS Lambdas before - they're ok. They have a nice platform but my Vans/Chucks would slip a bit on them. Not sure if you can put pins in them, but you may not need/want them. For what it's worth, my wife absolutely hates these pedals. I think it's because she has shinned herself more with these pedals than any others.

I have another bike coming and I may try some composite pedals - Kona Wah Wahs or something like that.

[Ed Carolipio]

The Vice's are my favorite flat pedals so you've already identified the Superior Option. My impressions on other flat pedals I have now:

• MKS Lambda - put these on my "street" bikes for the reflectors, the bling, and to avoid the pedals rashes but as others have mentioned they could slip when wet or with certain outsoles.
• MKS Grip Monarch - definitely superior to the Lambdas with a broader, more square platform and metal pins while still housing reflectors. I'd recommend these pedals if you want to shop at Riv. (Currently in stock in Silver and Black. Get a black and a silver one to create Panda/Adnap versions.)
• MKS RMX Sneaker pedals - Only reason to get them is they're silver. I'd take the Clem plastic pedals (VP-538) for "sneaker pedals" over these.
• iSSi Thumps with Molded Pins - a great value option for a low profile, large platform, composite pedal. Molded pins are tall so grip is good even in the wet but pedal rash isn't too bad since the pins are plastic. Definitely feel stiffer than the venerable VP-538.

--Ed C.

[Garth]

Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to any pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the body back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's. 

I wear size 14 shoes and the Vice size and shape works great with the shoes I wear. I pedal near midfoot, not totally. A longer platform would not necessarily be any better. That's what always struck me about Pedal Innovations. I already pedalled mid foot, my feet were already "supported"...(as if any other pedal doesn't offer support !).  What they neglect in their "science", is using short cranks along with a midfoot stroke. With 185mm cranks it didn't work for me, too much of a reach despite a lowered saddle, awkward.  With 170 ..... a little better but still ... nope. Then I tried 152/150's...... ahhh ...... sweeeeet spot of both midoot power and pedal speed.  As the French say back in the day .... soo-play ... soo-play !

[Johnny Alien]

Crank Stamp 1 pedals are my absolute favorite after trying a bunch of different flat pedals. They are light, come in two sizes, are super grippy and have tons of great colors. Totally serviceable and affordable too. If you must have metal or a fancier version there are more expensive options in the stamp line but I really like the low end composite ones.

[lconley]

I have several pairs of the VP "Thin Gripsters" in colors, many pairs of the MKS RMS "Sneaker" pedals (best bang for the buck in silver pedals and they have reflectors), tried and sold the Catalyst pedals a few years back, several pairs of Deity TMACs in colors, one pair of MKS Lambda "Grip Kings", one pair of Ergon PC2 Wide pedals, one pair of VO Sabots, one pair of Shimano Saints, one pair of Chromag Scarabs (polished silver on my Rivendell Custom), one pair of Speedplay Drilliums, and many others (Lyotard Berthet, MKS Urban, etc. in the parts stash).

I have short wide feet - 9 EEEE with very high arches (I am 6' tall), so width is the most important thing, but it is important that the width be at the ball of my foot, over the axle, that is why I have never been a fan of the MKS Grip King / Grip Monarch style pedals (narrow where I want wide) and have gravitated to the Deity TMAC and Chromag Scarabs. The VO Sabots have been workhorses also - the thinnest that still take reflectors.

When I was younger, I rode barefoot, 1st on "RatTrap" pedals (think MKS Touring, but sharper edges), then on Campagnolo Record, then on Phil Wood Platform pedals, all with toe clips and straps (still have at least one of all three). I got used to having the ball of my foot over the axle and that is my default position. The Ergons are best for barefoot followed by the Phil Woods.

Lately I find myself moving the ball of my foot farther forward (maybe I abandoned the Catalysts too soon). I may be doing this because I have started to lower my seat - partly to make it easier to swing my leg over the bike, partly to make it easier to mount the seat from a stop (step-through doesn't help on the mount from a stop). Thinner pedals also help with getting the seat lower.

Pedals are one of the three contact points with the bike along with the saddle and the handlebars, and just as important and just as personal of a choice.

The Ergon PC2s are very comfortable, the problem is that they are not silver and are ugly, ugly, ugly (and no longer made), but they are growing on me and starting to look better.

I have been wanting to try the Crust MKS Gorditos as something that may pass Eroica event rules - they look like large versions of the old RatTraps.

Laing

Delray Beach FL

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote:

[Richard Rose]

I’ve not yet read all of the responses, so apologies if I am repeating. I have converted to flats exclusively and have not been attached to any bike for 5 or 6 years. Part of this was my interest in the catalyst pedal. I’ve still not tried the catalyst, but I have adopted the mid foot position - it really works for me.

All things considered my favorite “sticky” flat is the Kona WahWah 2. The composite version is under $50.00 & sticks like glue to my 5/10 shoes for serious MTB use. The metal version is beautiful and costs a lot more. What I love is how BIG it is! Almost as long as a catalyst but noticeably wider. I can stomp my size 9.5 shoe anywhere I want & am good to go. I also quite like the DMR Vault, but wish it were as big as the Kona.

That said, my current love affair is with the Simworks MKS “Bubbly” pedal. This is the pedal on my Clem Smith Jr. It is big enough, not particularly sticky, and looks & feels like jewelry on this bike. It works perfectly on the Clem for all of the riding I do on it. 

Hope this helps.

Ps; mid foot works for me on cranks ranging from 165 - 175.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 17, 2022, at 4:17 AM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:

Do you add grease to your Vice pedals John ?  I always add grease to any pedal, open them up, slather some grease on the axle and slide the body back on the excess oozes out the axle side. I have 2 pairs of Vice and they've been flawless. Before these I did this with Wellgo MG-1's. 

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[John G.]

Someone on iBob recommended DMR Vaults for people with larger feet. I put a set of them on my new Homer and I love them.

[David Person]

I started with VP Vise when I moved to flat pedals 7 years ago.  A few years ago I've moved to Catalyst pedals (like Jay above).  They are made for Cycling Innovations by VP, but CI sells rebuild kits should the need arise.  I'm not a high milage rider, but so far no issues with the pedals.  I like the shape of the platform.

David

[John Bokman]

Yes, I did grease theses once already.  Grease is inexpensive, so of course, I could regrease them.  As for the Catalyst,  I don't want to go there for a few reasons:

1. I already experience toe overlap (fenders on my 700c Sam) at times, and the length of the pedal is way longer than the Vice.

2. I don't like riding with my foot so far forward of the axle. In other words, I'm not an arch-pedaler, which is what the Catalyst calls for, unless I'm mistaken.

3. I'm not convinced I need something that long. Again, how long is long enough?

[John Bokman]

Thanks for all the good suggestions, everyone. I'm Narrowing down the parameters, I think. So far, what I think I want:

1. Metal pedal body, not composite.

2. Rebuildable pedal (can rebuild parts be had?).

3. At least as long as the Vice (106mm, I think).

4. At least 100mm wide.

Does anyone have experience with the Xpedo Spry? it looks to tick some boxes.

https://xpedo.com/product/pedals/flats/spry/

[Paul Choi]

I like the Blue Lug MKS XC-III pedals. Not too big and they hold my 8.5 shoes well. They look like the bear trap pedals that I had on my Redline BMX bike back in the early 80's. I got mine from Hope Cyclery. They have them in six colors. 

[George Rosselle]

I have the Spank Oozy pedals on my Chameleon and like them a lot, metal, low profile, and availabe bushings that are easy to replace. Too bad you don't like composites, I also have Race Face Chesters on a couple bikes and find them to be just as good and much less expensive.

[Joe in the Pay Area]

Black Ops Torqlite UL platform pedals, now almost impossible to find.  And why does my reply have just a half line of height? Can baely see what I type!

[Michael Morrissey]

Does the Pedaling Innovations rebuild kit work for VP Vice pedals? It looks like the axle and bearings are the same.

Anyone know?

Also a nice choice for a high-end pedal are these bad boys, made in the USA:

https://yoshimuracycling.com/products/chilao-performance-bicycle-pedal

Michael

[John Bokman]

Indeed, those look excellent. Definitely worth a hard look. 

[David Person]

Review of the Yoshimura Chilao pedals on The Radavist.

https://theradavist.com/2021/10/i-cant-get-enough-of-these-yoshimura-chilao-mtb-pedals/

[Johnny Alien]

Man those are pricey but I love that they are about the same weight as composite pedals, they look great and are made in America. I am going to give those a shot sometime soon.

[John Bokman]

Yeah, they are pricey. Much more than a little marine grease, which is what I used to slather on the spindles of my VP Vice today. Turns out, when I look at all the pedals out there, mine are hard to beat, considering they are every day "just ride" pedals. About 100x100 square, not too heavy, plenty grippy, nice and thin, spin well enough (although admittedly not smooth), and inexpensive. I think I paid $45 for them many years ago. I can't really complain; they have been a good value, all considered.

(Thanks to Garth for reminding me to just throw some grease in them again.)

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

I love V.P. pedals until they start going bad, which is pretty quick in my experience. Needing to rebuild a pedal regularly gets in the way of my minimal maintenance schedule, so I decided to try these Fookers- https://photos.app.goo.gl/NXPs7HwaAgJwDU8V9 because they’re cheap/disposable. To my surprise, they’re not disposable. They’re long lasting, totally great (and cheap!). Maybe not the most stylish, but I usually can’t see them…

-Kai

On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 9:24:43 PM UTC-4 John Bokman wrote: