Sizing Down? Pocket ‘Pus.

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I have a question that is probably only going to be academic. But maybe not. I’ve done crazier things. 

Anyway, I have an 81 cm PBH. I sized up to the 55 cm Platypus (PBH range starts at 82 cm) and I love the fit. I adore my bikes. You can’t have them, I won’t sell them, don’t even ask. BUT, they are long. Too long for buses and for Amtrak. I desperately want to take Amtrak to Chicago with my bike for the first time, but my bike is too long. RivSister Kate says she can get her 50 cm Platypus on Amtrak if she undoes her V brakes and lets some air out of her tire. But, I’m 5’6” and I don’t know if I could ride that little bike. I don’t have one locally to try.

Also, I’d want the lime olive, which would be very hard to find. Anyway, thanks for participating in my thought experiment. That might be a real experiment. Probably not. There’s likely a limit to how many Platys a girl can have.

Leah

[Bill Lindsay]

Leah

My recommendation for an alternative set of academic questions would include the following:

1.  YOU own a 52cm Yves Gomez or Betty Foy.  Please measure the total end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you

2.  YOU own a 55cm Yves Gomez or Betty Foy.  Please measure the total end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you

3.  YOU own a medium/small Glorious or Wilbury.  Please measure the total end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you

I think it would be HOT if you had a sporty short wheelbase Riv step-through in your ARSENAL.  Mrs Bubba used to own a 52cm Gomez, but now she's on a 50cm Platy and it's not actively for sale.  Although if you were eager to lease it for an extended period, I bet she could be convinced.  Hers is Mermaid, and its full end to end length is 72 inches, plus or minus a quarter-inch, with 650B x 48 Rene Herse knobbies and no fenders.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

While we're at it, it would be fun I think for you to consider what's the wheelbase of Joe Bernard's custom.  

#SWBST

BL in EC

[Joe Bernard]

Her Platys have the same 53cm chainstays as my custom, and my ETT of 63 compares to the Platy 61.5. Add 700c wheels on hers vs. 650b on mine and it's a wash, we own long bikes! 

Joe Bernard 

[Leah Peterson]

Oh, good idea. How many people will actually take the time though? Well, Joe will! I can count on him! Also, I’d love to have a hot, sporty short WB Riv in my arsenal! It’s even more attractive when you put it that way!  Mostly if I could pull my Clem parts and slap them on there. We’ll see. If I did get a Platy I’d want to do lime olive because one cannot have TWO mermaid Platys. I draw the line!

On Nov 11, 2023, at 5:20 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

Leah

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[rlti...@gmail.com]



How much wiggle room is there on the brakes for smaller wheels? Would a smaller diameter wheelset allow the bike to load on the train? 

Or bring a 16” front wheel with you and use it for the train rack and then swap out when at the destination. A 16” wheel should fit in any Riv approved saddlebag.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2023, at 3:22 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Her Platys have the same 53cm chainstays as my custom, and my ETT of 63 compares to the Platy 61.5. Add 700c wheels on hers vs. 650b on mine and it's a wash, we own long bikes! 

Joe Bernard 

On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 2:21:47 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

While we're at it, it would be fun I think for you to consider what's the wheelbase of Joe Bernard's custom.  

#SWBST

BL in EC

On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 2:20:38 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

Leah

My recommendation for an alternative set of academic questions would include the following:

1.  YOU own a 52cm Yves Gomez or Betty Foy.  Please measure the total end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you

2.  YOU own a 55cm Yves Gomez or Betty Foy.  Please measure the total end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you

3.  YOU own a medium/small Glorious or Wilbury.  Please measure the total end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you

I think it would be HOT if you had a sporty short wheelbase Riv step-through in your ARSENAL.  Mrs Bubba used to own a 52cm Gomez, but now she's on a 50cm Platy and it's not actively for sale.  Although if you were eager to lease it for an extended period, I bet she could be convinced.  Hers is Mermaid, and its full end to end length is 72 inches, plus or minus a quarter-inch, with 650B x 48 Rene Herse knobbies and no fenders.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 1:27:55 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

I have a question that is probably only going to be academic. But maybe not. I’ve done crazier things. 

Anyway, I have an 81 cm PBH. I sized up to the 55 cm Platypus (PBH range starts at 82 cm) and I love the fit. I adore my bikes. You can’t have them, I won’t sell them, don’t even ask. BUT, they are long. Too long for buses and for Amtrak. I desperately want to take Amtrak to Chicago with my bike for the first time, but my bike is too long. RivSister Kate says she can get her 50 cm Platypus on Amtrak if she undoes her V brakes and lets some air out of her tire. But, I’m 5’6” and I don’t know if I could ride that little bike. I don’t have one locally to try.

Also, I’d want the lime olive, which would be very hard to find. Anyway, thanks for participating in my thought experiment. That might be a real experiment. Probably not. There’s likely a limit to how many Platys a girl can have.

Leah

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[Johnny Alien]

My PBH is somewhere in that 80 to 81 range. 80.5? Something inbetween like that. I am 5'9" but have a short inseam. I like being at the top of the range vs at the bottom so 50cm for a Platy is where I would personally go. I have a 50cm Proto-Gallop and I love it. Knowing you are comfortable with the 55 makes me very curious how you would like the smaller size. Based on your other setups you like a bit of stretch....I'm not sure if the 50 could give that to you. I suggest buying one. I would have voted purple but the green is very nice as well.

[Brian Turner]

Here’s an outside the lines suggestion: find a lovely rim brake model Soma Buena Vista mixte and build it up similarly to your Platys. Use that as your “travel bike”. I’m thinking a 54cm would suit you based on what you’re currently comfortable riding with your Rivs. My wife has one, and it’s one of the best riding bikes I’ve ever been on, and probably the prettiest in our household. Actually, hers is red and kinda looks a lot like your raspberry Platy.

[George Schick]

If I were in your situation I'd be tempted to get a folder.  PBH would not be an issue because they have very long seat posts.  Some models are equipped with more upright bars such as you're used to using.  They come with a variety of different types of gearing and ranges.  And, of course, they are step-though by definition.  That could be your travel bike and you'd be able to get around any issues that some trains have with carry-on bikes.

[Howard Hatten]

Since you already own a few step thru-step over rivs maybe you might want to consider adding a Sam Hillborne to the stable. You never know, someday you might want to try a drop bar cockpit on your group ride machine. Your chariot would be waiting. 

Howard

Livonia Mi

[Sarah Carlson]

Hey RivSister, want me to got test ride the 50 for you? I know we both like an oversize frame so this could be an interesting experiment for both of us....

[Joe Bernard]

Go ride it, Sarah! I'm the same height as y'all and I rode the first 50cm prototype, it felt great. 

[Leah Peterson]

Yeah, Sarah, I support this idea! Do we have the same PBH? I seem to remember do. 81cm for me…

On Nov 12, 2023, at 11:26 AM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Go ride it, Sarah! I'm the same height as y'all and I rode the first 50cm prototype, it felt great. 

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[J J]

Bill requests: 

3.  YOU own a medium/small Glorious or Wilbury.  Please measure the total end to end length from the front edge of the front tire to the trailing edge of the rear fender (or tire).  Please and thank you

Total end-to-end length of 52cm Wilbury and 52cm Glorius is between 67.5" and 68", both with 42mm 650b and fenders. The slight difference is due to different fenders.

[Bill Lindsay]

Dynamite measurement.  Leah, that empirical data suggests that a short wheelbase Riv step through would be roughly 4 inches shorter than a Mrs. Bubba's 50cm Platypus, end to end.  What is the total end to end length of your 55cm Platy?  To first order, I would expect the 52cm Betty to have the same length, and is a very promising option for your "train bike" build concept.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Allan McLane]

Two additional data points…

Wife has 80PBH

50cm Rosco Platy (Circa 2022)

LOA 182cm (71.5”) w/ 42-584 smooth tread (+2cm for fender, 72.5” LOA)

I have 87 PBH

58cm Yves/Betty 

LOA 176cm (69.25”) w/ 42-584 smooth tread (+2cm for fender, 70”LOA)

Allan, in Marlboro, VT

[Garth]

Maybe the Betty like the one you sold(or similar) is on it's way to your front door :)

A smaller Platy also comes with less frame reach and bar height potential. Since you're already at the max stem height and length , going to a smaller frame doesn't work for you. Neither does a high rise bar like the Bosco since it comes back further than bar you currently have.

[Leah Peterson]

Garth, are you saying you’re sending me a Betty?! Because I would NOT be sad! 🤣

On Nov 12, 2023, at 2:28 PM, Garth <gart...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Leah Peterson]

Bill - I measure my 55 Platy about 75”, end to end.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 12, 2023, at 2:31 PM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Jason Fuller]

I'm 5'8" with an ~81 pbh and I've decided that if I were to get a Platy (and I do entertain the idea, although I can't do it in the foreseeable future) I'd get a 50 because I love the way 650B wheels ride.  At my (our) height, I think either size can totally work fine. Changing the handlebar from a Billie to an Albatross would effectively cancel out the differing top tube length, or maybe you'd want to try a bar with moderate sweep on it - which would give it quite a different feel from the other Platy(s) as well!  Or, since I know you love the Billie bar, trimming the ends by the same difference as the top tube length might be the best plan! 

I totally think you should do it. If an additional bike isn't justifiable, it would still make sense to replace the shopping Platy with a 50 in my opinion, as then you've got three distinct feeling bikes with distinct purposes, and the shopping Platy already has the carrying capacity to become the traveling Platy on weekends! 

[Edwin W]

I am with George. Once you have more than a certain number of bikes (a number you are certain to have opinions about), one of them should be a folder!

Great for train travel.

Great for guests (they fit all kinds of people).

Great for conversation starter.

Can be stored in a closet, attic, under the stairs, etc...

Good luck!

Edwin

[Armand Kizirian]

I ordered a 55 Platy in the last presale, was thinking of taking amtrak to pick it up in person and bring it with me back, Oakland to LA. Can someone confirm whether or not the bike will be accepted on the train without boxing it up? Please and thank you. Good luck with your Platycisions Leah!

[Joe Bernard]

Size and weight limit restrictions: 50 lbs. and 70" x 41" x 8.5". Your bike will be approximately 4-5 inches too long for Amtrak. 

[Allan McLane]

It depends what type of bike-related service is available on the Amtrak line you will be taking. The dimensions Joe cites are for checked, in a box. 

I occasionally bring a bike on the train  from where I live in southern Vermont to New York City via the Albany Amtrak station. On this line there is only carryon service and there are only 4 special bike lockers available. The bike hangs from the rear wheel and the front wheel must be removed beforehand. It’s a bodged-up arrangement and I have to lash the frame with my own straps to keep everything from swinging and damaging the frame’s finish.

I’ve taken both an Yves Gomez and a Trek crit bike. Both have 650b wheels. I’ve never actually measured the vertical space afforded by the locker but without a front wheel it seemed that there might be another 8-10” available; I’ll bring a tape next time.

Allan, in snowy Marlboro, Vt.

[Brian Forsee]

Has anyone had their bike denied on Amtrak due to wheelbase length? The Amtrak I take occasionally has a 2" tire width limit in their fine print, but I have never had an issue even though all my tires are larger than that. I asked a conductor once and he basically said if its a standard bike (non-recumbent, non e-fat is what he mentioned) he didn't care. Obviously you can't assume every train official will be lax about it but I'm curious if anyone has had issues.

Brian

[Joe Bernard]

That's a good question, Brian. I'm a transit bus driver and technically we have limits on what will fit on the bus but in reality if you've got stuff and you haven't convinced me you can't get that stuff on there..it's on there! My understanding (I've never been on Amtrak) is the bikes store vertically, my guess is if it's shorter than a tandem it's going to work. 

Joe "I should plan a short Amtrak trip and see if they bounce my custom" Bernard 

[Matthew Williams]

I’ve taken my bike on Amtrak's Capitol Corridor and Coast Starlight lines without any questions or problems. Both trains had a carriage with a bike area: bikes ride in an upright rack with folding arms to which bikes can be strapped and locked without removing the front wheel.

No one measured my bike or asked me about it, and the times I’ve ridden the train with my bike, I’ve seen only one or two other bikes in the rack.

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[Roberta]

I took my 55 Platy to get Amtrak's opinion and they said no to carry on (roll on) service.  All he did was look at the bike.  I know of one 50 Platy owner who went by train on a bike tour,  but I don't remember if she brought her Platy or her other bike on her wedding anniversary trip this summer.  Leah might know.  I wouldn't want to take a chance that they might say "no" when I roll my bike to the door.

In my city/suburban train (Septa), I can bring any bike on the train, but there is no special place to store it, so I sit the end of the car and try to keep it out of the way.  In S. Jersey's River line, I can hang it.   I don't know about the rest of NJ Transit (I know one iBob member who does alot of NJT with bike, but not sure of storage situation.)  On the Philadelphia bus system, Platy is too long and I'm afraid with one good bump, it would be road kill (yes, I'd tie it down if forced to take it on a bus rack).  You can see my 2019 Homer sits OK.  If I wanted to take a bike with me on Amtrak, Platy wouldn't be an option. Perhaps in other parts of the country, the bus racks are longer?

So, how often would one need to take it on a train/bus/Amtrak?  For me, right now, little on Amtrak, but lots on busses.  I imagine the adventures I could have taking a bus/train one way and the bike the other direction.

Roberta 

[Roberta]

forgot the "OMG" pics.

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, bus racks - my area of expertise - are a whole 'nother kettle of monkeys or whatever the idiom is. I've transported some longish 29er mountain bikes which barely fit the rack, and one of these days I'm going to collect a roadside garbage can with one! My Rivendell and any over-52cm Clem or Platy would not fit our buses. 

[George Schick]

Joe, is it OK if we start calling you Ralph Kramden ; )

[Joe Bernard]

I'm ok with it! 

[Bob Ehrenbeck]

As Allan noted, how you travel with a bike depends on the type of storage the train cars have on your particular Amtrak line. 

The below photo shows the situation for the Vermonter line that runs between DC and Vermont. (It appears to be the same style as the Empire Service trains that Allan rides.) The instructions state that when hanging the bike from the rear wheel, the front wheel (and all bags) need to be removed. When I took the Vermonter to ride in D2R2, I did just that. On the return trip, however, the conductor said that I could leave the wheel on the bike if it fit, and it did fit. The bike I had with me (a Rawland rSogn), has an end-to-end length of 67" with both wheels on, and since my 52 Clem H was an end-to-end length of 73", I'm pretty sure a Platypus would fit in that vertical space with the front wheel removed.

It appears that Amtrak's Blue Water and Wolverine trains have the same bike carry-on service as the Vermonter, so this should work just fine!

https://www.amtrak.com/onboard/bring-your-bicycle-onboard.html

Another possible option would be to drive to South Bend, Indiana and get on the South Shore Line to reach Chicago:

https://mysouthshoreline.com

But it seems that as there is a construction project going on, they have temporarily suspended  bringing bikes on board:

https://mysouthshoreline.com/plan-your-trip/bikes-on-trains/

I regularly take my bikes on NJT trains here in New Jersey, and similar to what Roberta mentioned, as in most commuter lines there are open spaces at the ends of each car, or sets you can flip out of the way, to store your bike; perhaps the South Shore Line has a similar set-up?

Bob E

Cranford, NJ

[Roberta]

Hi, Bob :) ,

How do you hang it from the back wheel?  You take the front wheel off first, then  lift up the back wheel?  I guess the bike is lighter without the front wheel.  I'm not sure I'd have the strength.

When I hang mine from the front wheel, I "pop" the front wheel  up, like a wheelie, roll the bike close to the hook and then just need to lift it up a foot or so to the hook.

Roberta

[George Schick]

Plus, IMHO, having to remove the front wheel on bikes most of the time would be a PITA.  First, there's the "lawyer tabs" that require unscrewing the QR a bit.  Then, on some bikes equipped with caliper brakes wider tires can't get past the brake pads even when the brake release tab is moved, requiring some air to be bled out first.  Finally, there may be fender contact issues with the front wheel removed if the bike is allowed to sway back and forth with out the wheel intact.  I wouldn't want to do it very frequently.

[Roberta]

I get'cha (i have to let the air out and open the brakes on my Homer to take off front wheel--very annoying), but my guess is Bob's picture is on an Amtrak train.  Sometimes, you just don't have a choice and I'd like to know how to do it.  

Bob's description of NJTransit sounds a lot like our newer Philadelphia commuter trains-- no dedicated bike area, one can improvise.

I even took my bikes to a Philadelphia bus depot to get experience putting them on the bus rack before I actually needed to do it.  The drivers were quite nice about that.

Roberta

[Bob Ehrenbeck]

Hi Roberta!

Yes, that photo was taken from inside an Amtrak train. The front wheel comes off first, then it's just a matter of placing the rear rim onto the hook. It's not a big deal to remove the cable (for non-caliper brakes), and it's not like you're doing it multiple times a day. But if your bike isn't overly long and can fit without removing the wheel, I don't think the train crew really cares.

There are just a few trains on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor that will accept bikes at all, but there are a bunch of commuter lines that also run on the corridor that will take bikes (SEPTA, NJ Transit, MARC, Metro North, MBTA, etc.). Here's a photo of my bike on a typical NJT train, with seating flipped up in the vestibule:

Bob

[George Schick]

I have done this exact same thing on the local commuter line (METRA) when I get tired of riding the limestone paths and want to go to the next county West of here to ride on paved rural roads for a change.  And that pic is exactly how I secure it, no need to remove anything - just bungee it to the side railing.  BUT, there are time of day restrictions because they don't want bikes taking up space when the morning or evening commuter rushes begin.  Mostly, it's all good.

[Kim H.]

@Leah -

Is this what you are looking for ?

https://www.rivbike.com/products/platypus-complete-bike?variant=41153175257199

Kim Hetzel.

[Johnny Alien]

No she is looking for the Lime Green which was the first (or maybe second) run of Platypie

[Kim H.]

Thank you, John.

Kim Hetzel.

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