what is likely to be causing my brake squishy-ness?

[thomasl...@comcast.net]

Hi, all.

Here's a chance to join me in over-thinking something. And a chance for those-who-know-stuff to help one-who-doesn't.

To me, "squishy" means the braking action doesn't seem as closely linked to my squeeze of the lever as I feel it could be. Definitely subjective, definitely "I know it when I see it", and definitely "YMMV" territory.

The context is a diamond-frame (i.e. heavy rider edition) Bike Friday 2014 New World Tourist (has canti-/v-brake posts). It's only the rear brake (posts on the chainstays). The brake has always worked, just not with the solid feel of, say, the Paul Love&Motolite combination on my Hillbornes front and rear, nor even of the Paul Canti&MiniMoto front on the Bike Friday itself. (So maybe this isn't just "over-thinking" but also "whining".)

Squish had been substantial from the beginning and through a couple each of pad-changes, brake-changes and lever-changes. The changes were "lateral" in the sense that the new stuff wasn't purchased as generally better, just different. The squish did vary some over those changes, but not much. Finally the squish moved from "substantial" into "moderate" territory when I moved to Paul Canti Levers; clearly the levers accounted for some squish.

So...

I have thoughts below on what might be the remaining squish reasons (to be ignored by those who know better):

Do I just accept that the brake will have squish because

1. a brake with 2ish meters of 100% housed brake cable needs better-than-Jagwire-Sport housing - perhaps mitigated by better housing
2. the chainstays are flexing - perhaps mitigated by some kind of stiffener ("brake booster"?)
3. the posts are flexing - (no idea what one could do here)
4. the brakes I've tried so far (nothing special, not super-cheap but defintely not expensive) flex(ed) too much - perhaps mitigated by getting a Paul brake to work (I just assume a Paul would introduce less squish) or find some low-squish brake which just works as is 
5. something else entirely - (?)

Can anyone rank likely causes so that I could prioritize mitigation efforts? And I would definitely appreciate any suggestions for any mitigation choices (e.g. Which "better housing"? What "low-squishy brake"?).

Yours,

Thomas Lynn Skean

who does like himself a stiff drink... uh, brake

[Joe Bernard]

I've owned several Fridays, v-brake and road caliper, they all had that squish at the rear. There's a lot of cable housing running a circuitous route on these frames, I think you've pretty much got whatcha got. 

Joe Bernard 

Clearlake CA 

[J G]

Agree with Joe.  Only thing I do not see and can think to add is perhaps the use of Thinline brake pads.

Good luck!

-Justus

Mpls, MN

[Eric Daume]

Yeah, I had the same thought. Try some non compression brake housing. Both of my BF have decent rear brake feel, so it’s possible. 

Am I using non compression housing? I’m not sure! I can check when I’m home. 

Eric

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[J G]

Subscribed on the housing question as I run both Jagwire Sport and Pro housing on many bikes and have never had issues such that I noticed the difference.  If it truly helps for tough runs, just good to know.

On quick search and assuming this is correct, found a post from a few years ago stating:

"There's a bigger difference between the Pro and Sport kits when it comes to brakes: The Pro kits include compressionless KEB-SL housing, the Sport kits include the coiled-wire CGX-SL housing. I always, always spring for the compressionless housing."

Did not realize the Sport and Pro were that different.  Perhaps some gains to still be had with housing, if the above is correct.

-Justus

Mpls, MN

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[Garth]

Besides compression and/or drag somewhere in the line, do the brake unattached rotate freely on the cant posts ?

I ask because on my Bomabdil one of the canti posts is more draggy that the other three, so with some canti's I've tried the canti-lever doesn't rotate freely when tightened at the post. Yes, it's a real drag ... hah hah ! The post drag totally diminishes the spring response, rendering inadequate spring action, and thus crappy braking. The drag on the post felt like a squish at the lever though, as there was no springyness present. I swap out the brake for another model, and whaddaya know, that brake rotates freely and the brake lever has a positive, strong response. Excellent braking.

[Steve]

Thomas, I second the recommendation for compressionless housing (Jagwire Pro or Yokozuna). The longer the housing the greater the compression effect of standard spiral wrapped housings. I've been using Jagwire Pro on a disc brake Ritchey with full length housings and Paul Klampers for a number of years now and have been consistently impressed by the performance of the set up. (Squishiness is the standard complaint regarding  cable actuated disc brakes). Replacing your brake housing would also likely be the least expensive first step in your quest for improved stopping performance.

Steve in AVL 

[thomasl...@comcast.net]

Overall, the responses present a preponderance of thought that going "compressionless" (i.e. "pro" in jagwire housing terms) may mitigate, perhaps resolve, the squish. Of my initially imagined potential casus squishi, I definitely see the housing as having the most straightforward solution.

As to other notions: Each brake arm rotated freely around its post, no draggy-ness. And, I'm confident I tried kool-stop thinline pads at one time, simply.because that's what I had on hand to feed my Motolites and MiniMoto, and I saw no difference..

So at some point I will very likely replace the housing with Jagwire Pro and see what happens. It's costly relatively but not absolutely.

Presently, my much-preferred packaging of my much-preferred color is not available through my usual channels. With this delay, and also considering that the brake works as is, it may a little while, I just hope I can remember to report results here if/when I make the change.

No matter what I do, my world won't be rocked if it turns out that Mr. Bernard's early suggestion was correct: basically, the brake is just gonna be moderately squishy. IMHO. YMMV.

Yours,

Thomas Lynn Skean

who will first fix a fraying front derailer cable that is no mystery at all: c'est moi!

[Victor Hanson]

Did you chamfer the leading edge of the brake pad with an  exacto knife?   It does not take much, and should solve any squishyness issues after the other main culprits, housing and cables have be resolved. 

Victor 

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VIctor R. Hanson

Gen Mgr

Schmier Industrial Properties

o:  510-652-0800

c:  510-207-8593

[Andrew Letton]

Hi Thomas,

I have a Bike Friday Air Glide with v-brakes (some Shimano, IIRC; came on the bike from BF) and I find the braking quite good and not squishy. My bike came from BF with a "travel agent" like roller, rather than the typical v-brake noodle. It is set up as a straight-through roller (without changing the pull ratio) and I think it is a strong factor in why the brakes feel so good on this bike. I recently had poor rear braking on another bike that was greatly improved when I swapped the noodle for the roller thingie.

As always, YMMV!

cheers,

Andrew in Sydney

Travel Agent

Travel Agent The Travel Agent can perform a couple of different tasks; adjusting cable pull or serving as a roller to work ar...

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[Patrick Moore]

Six feet of housing will certainly flex, if it’s generic spiral wound housing. If I had to fix the feel, I’d start with Jagwire housing or (other brands I can’t remember; there are several, I think) and top-quality cables.

Problem solvers makes clamp-on housing stops; perhaps cut out 3’ of your housing by using a couple of these?

I’ve had enough experience with brake boosters to know that they can indeed make a cantilever feel more “solid.” 

Paul cantilever brakes certainly do feel more “solid” than the Tektro brakes they replaced, using the same brake levers for both brakesets.

IME, some brake pads feel softer than others. Perhaps thinline pads?

Lastly, V brakes …?

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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Patrick Moore]

Just for the record, that it be complete, while I’ve certainly experienced “squishiness” with cable discs, BB7s roads with drop levers to be precise, I’ve found that if you set them up correctly they don’t feel squishy even with cheap, by-the-foot generic housing,  using drop bar levers, and even with full-length housing runs — my Matthews has full-length housing and BB7s were fine, tho’ I switched to Hy/Rds. And this using a wide variety of aero and non-aero drop levers.

“Fine” means, as well as most single and many dual pivots, many V brakes, better than all but one set of cantis, and better than any centerpull I’ve used.

On Thu, Aug 14, 2025 at 2:26 PM Steve <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:

… (Squishiness is the standard complaint regarding  cable actuated disc brakes).