Goathead immunity

[Patrick Moore]

This evening I did a combined pavement and dirt ride on my "road bike for dirt" Chauncey Matthews bilaminate custom, on a route including nearby acequia roads, Paseo Bike Path, Rio Grand Boulevard, Los  Poblanos open space, Montano Boulevard. 

This years's goathead crop is a stunner. I took a shortcut from Los Poblanos to RG Boulevard that took me over a few hundred feet of goathead carpet -- I could hear the tires crunching over the thorns as they picked them up, and the scraping of the embedded thorns against the underside of the Kelpie fenders. Sure enough, as I turned left onto RGB, I saw dozens of thorns embedded in the extra light Schwalbe Big One front (450 grams, 62 mm actual on 35 mm outer width rims).

But I made it home and just now, 3 hours afterward, checking the tires, no air loss.

Orange Seal Endurance formula in tubeless tires is 99% (metaphor, not metric) effective against small holes. 

I've used Tire Savers (still have a stash) and Mr Tuffys on all sorts of tires, and believe you me, nothing works as well as good modern sealants.

For my extra lightweight 28 mm RH Elk Passes, I use Orange Seal regular formula in tubes, and this is 90% as good as OS in tubeless tires.

Modern sealant: don't leave home without it.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[A. Douglas M.]

Patrick,

This year’s crop is indeed bountiful. Last week I got a tire full and made it home only to find that tire (29x2.5 surly ET) flat the following day. I believe my orange seal dried out.

Just two days ago I got a few goat heads in my 650b WTB resolutes. I knew this occurred because I got a nice spray of OS all over my hand and leg. It did seal up on its own. A few pumps of the mini pump had me back on the road, and that tire stayed inflated as of this morning.

How often do you top off your sealant? How often do you scrape out old boogers?

I think tubeless is a requirement in goathead country. Riding is not enjoyable when having to fix 3+ tubes per ride.

Best,

Aaron in El Paso 

[Patrick Moore]

First, an update: the Big Ones (again, these are 29 1/2" tall, 62 mm wide, and weight 450 grams each) each have a dozen or so thorns embedded in the tread with tops broken off; no air loss. 2-3 fl oz each tire of OS Endurance, which is said to take longer to evaporate than OS regular.

I schedule replenishment every 3 months or so for tubeless tires, though usually what happens is that I forget, and only notice that the sealant has evaporated when I get flats that don't seal; fortunately, these have all been slow leaks, so I can generally limp home by stopping and pumping.

Endurance doesn't clump; I get a skin and strings of dried sealant which I don't bother with unless I have to open the tire for some other reason.

OS regular in tubes takes a year or more to dry out; I just added more to one or 2 tubes after a flat or 2 would not seal, and it had probably been 18 or 24 months since I had first added the OS regular. (OS Endurance doesn't work in tubes, IME.) I've not had OS clump in tubes the way Stan's did.

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[Jeffrey Arita]

Patrick,

Congrats - you (have been) and are realizing the benefits of tubeless tires.  I 100% agree that there is a lot of knowledge (and potential frustation) learning about these new-fangled tubeless tires.  But now that you know how to do it, they will continue to provide the benefits you describe.....

One day when we were riding into Silver City (NM) I heard a strange noise emanating from my rear wheel.  Nothing felt out of place so I ignored it.  We got to our motel for the afternoon and setled in....I then examined my bike and saw a lot of Stan's on the back of my seat tube (white globules).  Tire was holding air, although it was a bit softer than normal.  I must have picked up some nasty crap that caused the sealant to fly around like that.  I added some air and all was good (had to eventually buy a new replacement tire in Salida, CO).

About a month ago I was coaching a good buddy of ours on how to go about doing tubeless conversions (from afar).  Yes, lots and lots of frustation and I could hear him saying in his head "is this worth all the hassle?"  Well, you just summed it all up with the numerous goatheads you just added to your *collection*.  Can you imagine having to patch up the inner tube???  What??  You've got to be joking!! 

How often do I add sealant?  Great question.  I definitely add sealant before a cyclo-tour or some such thing and a bit of time has passed (maybe several months).  Perhaps a bit sooner if we've had hot and dry weather (we are in Southern California).  FYI: we now have experience with Stan's, Orange Seal (both standard and endurance) and now Panaracer Seal Smart.  Stan's and OS (both) have worked well and are very easy to add via the tubeless valve stem (with valve core removed).  I've found Panaracer Seal Smart somewhat harder to add via the tubeless valve stem because the ground-up walnut shells can clog the stem.  I use an old spoke to push anything that might have gotten clogged in the stem to clear it (yeah, another pain in the arse).

Later,

Jeff (will be in Crested Butte for a few days to leaf peep)

[Patrick Moore]

Yes, modern sealants are really amazing. I recall trying Slime some 10 or 15 years ago and finding that it didn't work well enough to be worth the hassle (26X1.25" Paselas) and, when I did get a bigger hole, as from a nail, I just got a huge, green, slimy mess. So I just went back to patching 3 to 5 punctures per week. 

In about 2014 I tried a pair of very wonderful Challenge Parigi Roubaix tires on my Ram; these were the original "beaded tubular" model, as supple and fast-feeling as RH extra lights. I got 5 thorn flats in my first 10 miles, no kidding. That's when I bought Stan's. I switched to Orange Seal a couple of years later and find that OS works better: Stan's is 85%, Stan's (in tubes) is 97.5%. Metaphor, not statistics.

But man, being able to ride RH Elk Passes on my favorite Riv Road gofast custom makes the expense and hassle plenty worth while.

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[Nick Payne]

I have used tubeless tyres with sealant on road bikes. However, where I live these days I get few punctures, so there's not a great advantage to using sealant. There is a decided disadvantage if you have a lot of bikes - I have about a dozen that I alternate between - I'll ride one for a couple of weeks, then hang it back on it's hook and pull down another one to ride for a while, before moving onto a third, and so on. The trouble with using tubeless tyres and sealant with that setup is that by the time I come back to a bike to ride it again, any sealant in the tyres has mostly dried out and solidified at the lowest part of the tyre, making the wheel quite unbalanced, requiring me to dismount the tyre, clean out the solidified sealant, then remount the tyre and add more sealant.

So these days I've given up on tubeless...

Nick

[Patrick Moore]

I have to agree that my default would very definitely be tubes. Tubeless + sealant is an annoying mess, were it not for goatheads to make it all worthwhile. Where there are no such thorns, and where punctures are therefore hundreds of miles apart -- I'd happily patch 1 flat per week to avoid sealants -- I'd happily choose tubes, no sealants, and live with the consequences.

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