Single Speed (QB/SO/RU..) Questions

[Jason Zakaras]

So as its been posted, I'm selling my Quickbeam, but even with "too low" prices, its still not moving.  I also have options to figured out how to tow my newest addition and I can make space/have the space so who cares.  The big concern for me is riding it and I don't find myself jumping on it as often as I'd like.  Partially due to the epic mtn bike scene immediately around me and my newly rebuilt bombora that I absolutely love.  That said, It would be fun to hit the trails on a QB and I have a pass&stow rack and some bags I'd like to use to do some camping with my twin boys (7) and the SS would be a nice way to enjoy the trip out to the woods with them.  

The question I pose is what gear options do you all enjoy.  I've dug into the internets and I'm sure there is a post or 100 on this here already but I figured with the upcoming roduno and its many possibilities, this might be a fun chat to dig into.

I'm currently at 48-18 and its great climbing around rural gravel roads in the midwest but now I'm in steeper hills its a bear-cat.

Thanks xo

Jason Cheap QB For Sale.

[Eric Daume]

I used to futz around with my old Cross Check, with lot of theoretical geared and fixed combos out of a 36/40 chainring combo, a 16t fixed cog, and a 16/19 freewheel. Or something. Now I'm simplifying and mostly just run my old Trek with a 46/17 fixed gear, about 72" inches on 650b wheels. That works fine for flat central Ohio. I have a freewheel on the flip side, but I've never used it.

Eric

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[DavidP]

Your Quickbeam is gorgeous. I've been tempted by it since you first listed it - but I can't justify it. It's a premium build and being kind of a niche bike, a high end build will take more time to find the right buyer. I do wonder if any who might normally be in the market for a QB could be holding for the RoadUno even though they are pretty different bikes.

If you parted it out, much of it would probably go quickly but it would be a lot more work and you might end up holding some parts.

SS gearing is pretty personal for a lot of reasons (fitness, terrain, etc.) - I'm currently in the stage Eric used to be (40/42 chainrings, 17/19 freewheel, 16t fixed) so my current singlespeed / fixed has three ratios:
~58" free - hilly and/or off-road rides, or just cruising around
~68" free - less hilly road rides
~72" fixed - road fixed

-Dave (in MA where the hills are mostly rolling)

[Patrick Moore]

I have to say that I personally would keep that QB and ride it, at least until the market improves.

The old single speed mtb standard gear was ~50-55". Personally I find that far too low not to get irritated on the flats. I don't know what your hills are like, but I preferred 60" to 65" and walking to a lower gear.

Long ago I built a fixed gear mountain bike and decided I preferred a gear no lower than about 60" or 62" (175 mm cranks) because, while I don't mind getting off and walking, I absolutely hate going downhill or before headwinds in a tiny gear. My hills were sometimes steep and often sandy but not that long (half a mile at longest).

After a bit I decided I preferred multiple gears for real hills and turned the mtb (nice top model Diamond Back) into a fixed gear allrounder with 60 mm Big Apples, a 64" gear and 170 mm cranks.

A bit later I set up a 2010 Monocog 29er with a single 63" gear (170 mm cranks) which was fine for all around sandy road/trail riding and modest hills as well as flat pavement.

My current (2012) Monocog has a single 65" gear and 175 mm cranks for sometimes deepish sand (but 72 mm tires at 13 psi) but I don't often face hills on that bike.

If I were faced with more hills I'd want at least a second, much lower climbing gear. I've toyed with the idea of a kickback hub for a ~46" direct and a 64" overdrive (1.38) but so far I've preferred the simplicity of a single gear. But if I were faced with more hills I might do this. Or I might try to find a way to get a 19 t and the current 15 t cog on one side of the hub that with the 32 t ring (30.5" wheel) would give a 51" low and a 65" high, and use a QR hub for easy swapping. 

OTOH, when I briefly put 42 mm (39 mm actual on the 19 mm OW rims) Naches Passes on my 1999 Joe Starck road custom, I rode it on some of our firmer sand with a SA 2 speed fixed hub giving 57" and 76" gears, and it was great fun but I didn't like getting my "pretty bike" all dirty.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Tempest Act 1 Scene 2

[Jason Zakaras]

Thanks for the excellent information and antidotes Patrick and David... I appreciate the details and after crunching some numbers, it might be a good plan to flip my 48t chainring to a 40 and feel the difference from the current 74" to a more dialed back 61". Then, if I need more or less I can pick up a different cog or play from there.  I was debating back and forth to drop to either my options of 40 or 36 and felt like 36 made more sense but I think I might find a better feel with a 40 and not cut back so far that it takes a lot to bring it closer... smaller tweaks vs giant swings maybe?  a 36t would put me at mid 55" which might be good but I could make more tweaks with the 40t and still have the speed that I do enjoy.

Thanks again, I am fully aware that there is a bunch of value I'd be walking away from, but more importantly I absolutely love this Riv out of the entire lineup and if there were one LOTR races I loved the most it's the Ents (and that matters, to me)

xo

[Hoch in ut]

Good advices above. On my SS mountain bike, I run about 51gi. About 5-700’ climbing per mile around here. More gravel SS, I ran closer to 60gi. 

I do love fixed offroad. 

If you haven’t visited this site, it’s excellent read. 

http://www.63xc.com

[maxcr]

My SimpleOne came with a White Industries Eno dingle crank (38/35) and a White Ind Dos Eno freewheel (16/18) and Surly double fixed cog (17/20) in the rear.

I found myself enjoying the 38 front, 16 cog combination most, I think that was about 66 gi and it was great for tooling around in my mainly flat area.

Max

PS. Keep it! I regret selling my SO which was a fun, fast, beautiful and very practical bike.

[Bill Lindsay]

Executive summary: I'm still thinking about buying it because he's giving it away.  I have fun with "parting out" projects, and this one would pay for itself.  

If I were Jason, I'd gear it down AND cheapen it up.  Operating principle #1 is you can always sell used stuff to 'friends' for half retail, and you should always expect to be able to buy stuff from friends for half retail.  Operating principle #2 is there are some bike parts that are super expensive that one buys only because they want them.  It's bling.  This QB has a lot of that expensive bling on it that we can get rid of without detracting from the usefulness of of the bike.  I could get into those details if you want...

If you'd meet me in Springfield IL this weekend I'll buy it.  I'm in Detroit all weekend with nothing to do.  Springfield is a 7 hour drive for each of us.  If I buy it, I'll part out the bling and end up with a very inexpensive second Quickbeam to go with my 58cm Green one.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Doug H.]

I have my Wabi Thunder set up with 42x18 gearing. The wheels are 700c and tires Panaracer Gravel King 38mm. 

Doug

[Edwin W]

It looks like you have some options for selling your awesome Quickbeam (slightly too small for me, thankfully for my wallet).

1. Drive 7 hours (14 hours round trip, yikes!) and sell it to Bill L.

2. Cheapen it up, drop the price, sell the expensive stuff, and clear the same amount

3. Keep dropping the price, and it WILL sell! What is a hundred dollars or two or three when what you are looking for is the peace from a slightly smaller bike stable!!

Best of luck,

Edwin

[Jason Zakaras]

As it stands I'm sticking to someone can buy it for 1750 to me and figure out a way to get it.  I'd help coordinate with a bike shop.  Not planning on dropping the price any further... although its funny it sat for a few weeks at 1800 with nothing and then dropped 50 bucks and its getting eyes.  I appreciate the publicity for a small investment.  Honestly I don't think the bike would sell for 2k shipped so call it 1750 and your still likely to pay 50-60 bucks to have it boxed then 100-150 to ship, and you're at around 2k.... so I dont think the price is too far reduced that I'm giving it away.  Although its a very nice bike and has a ton of bling Paul bits and some Easter egg brass bits throughout.  

That said, I f it doesn't sell today (as I posted earlier in the week on Crust Trader) I'm going to start buying up nice bits to change the gearing to give some variations in the way it rides.  I'll likely replace the crank to either a double 32/40 or a 1x likely 40 and then put a dos on the rear still chewing on that but likely a 17/19 oooooor if anyones holding a 16/19 I'd enjoy talking.

Thanks for all the great discussion, the next topic is, toe overlap, that's the other reason this bike has some room for improvement...

[Bill Lindsay]

White Industries sells the 16/19.  It's always available.  They don't make it easy to order it, because they have had lots of people try to couple a 16/19 with an eccentric ENO and not have quite enough take-up and they want to return everything.  Any shop that can buy White Industries stuff can get you a 16/19.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Will Boericke]

Were it me, I'd be inclined to build an IGH rear wheel for it.  I have a Sturmey Archer 3sp path racer that is one of my favorite bikes right now, and I commute on an 8sp Nexus IGH that is not light, but works well.  You could have an attractive frame that is also a practical family rider that way.

Will, fan of the IGH

[Brian Turner]

Just FYI, White Ind’s site says the 16/19 Dos freewheel was discontinued in March of ‘22.

On Aug 25, 2023, at 10:50 AM, Will Boericke <wboe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Were it me, I'd be inclined to build an IGH rear wheel for it.  I have a Sturmey Archer 3sp path racer that is one of my favorite bikes right now, and I commute on an 8sp Nexus IGH that is not light, but works well.  You could have an attractive frame that is also a practical family rider that way.

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[Bill Lindsay]

I've bought three or four 16/19s through Mike Varley of Black Mountain Cycles.  I don't remember if I got my last one before or after 3/22.  I just emailed Mike to see if I can buy another.  There is "off menu" stuff that White Industries doesn't push because the general population of noobs have shown they don't know how to use it.  The 16/19 is one of those parts that isn't idiot proof*.  If it exists, I can buy it through Mike.  If it's really discontinued, then Mike won't be able to get it for me (and my holdings got a LOT more valuable).  

BL in EC

* I think the idiot move is to run a single ring, vertical dropouts, the eccentric ENO hub and the 16/19 freewheel.  The eccentric ENO hub doesn't take up all the slack on some builds.  The person buying all that stuff is mad and demands a refund for everything.  

[Bill Lindsay]

Mike responded...that all the White Industries people are at the MADE show.  He'll ask them next week.  

BL in EC

[Patrick Moore]

Yes, interesting -- different! -- site. It was this site that prompted me to try off road fixed and then off road ss.

One of my favorite articles was the one describing the conversion of a KHS track bike to fat tire fixed gear off road use.

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 5:45 AM maxcr <max.fai...@gmail.com> wrote:

... I do love fixed offroad. 

[Patrick Moore]

Oh, +1. The old standby AW (or whatever they call it nowadays) works well if you use a big cog and a small ring so that the 33% overdrive is your flatland, hard-surface cruising gear. Direct and underdrive then give you a decent if slow offroad gear and a climbing gear. Example: If you set up direct for a 50" or so gear, 133% overdrive will give you a roughly 67" cruising gear and 75% underdrive a 38" uphill gear. 

I recall riding through deep streams on an AW-equipped bike and seeing the water drain out of the hub upon reaching the far bank. I didn't keep the bike very long, but as long as I kept it this made no difference to the performance of the hub. Proper shifter adjustment and a bit of lightish oil over so often is all that this hub needs to keep going.

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[Mojo]

Here is what I did with my first-batch, 2005-era Quickbeam. Gearing from 46 to 71 inches.  This serves me well on the rolling pavement and gravel of western Colorado. But big climbs have me wishing for a derailer.  

Quickbeam | 60cm Rivendell Quickbeam, shown here in multi-ge… | Flickr

I have a fixed and freewheel rear wheels for this bike. I wouldn't sell mine for less than $2000. I have significantly more than that into it, including all the gear planning.

Lots of frames can be converted to an IGH drivetrain. The Quickbeam, with its multi-single speed versatility, can be too of course but loses its uniqueness in the process.

Anyone interested in a fixed wheel for your Quickbeam/Simpleone? At 67 years old, I am hardly riding it.

Joe in GJT

[Patrick Moore]

I'm curious why an IGH with single ring and single cog is more antithetical to the Quickbeam idea than multiple rings and multiple cogs.

My 1999 Joe Starck gofast fixed gear 26" wheel road bike has several wheelsets, of which 2 are (1) the "main" wheelset: Phil QR fixed/fixed hub with 17/19t Dingle on 1 side, 76" and 68"; and (2) Sa TC hub with 17 t cog and direct + 86.54% underdrive, 76" and 66." The 2 wheels give a very similar spread and I've thought of using the TC wheel for another bike. But then I go out for a ride on a very windy day and the ability to gear down with the flick of a lever makes me say, "No, I'll keep this wheel" -- this despite the fact that it's very easy to shift from 76" to 68" on the Phil wheel thanks to the Dingle and the QR.

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 12:03 PM 'Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

... Quickbeam | 60cm Rivendell Quickbeam, shown here in multi-ge… | Flickr

... Lots of frames can be converted to an IGH drivetrain. The Quickbeam, with its multi-single speed versatility, can be too of course but loses its uniqueness in the process.

[Bill Lindsay]

Patrick Moore is " curious why an IGH with single ring and single cog is more antithetical to the Quickbeam idea than multiple rings and multiple cogs."

I find it odd that Patrick Moore (of all people) doesn't comprehend this.  The reason why is that slanted horizontals (rearward OR forward facing) are IDEAL for different chain lengths with no tensioner on a bike with a rear rim brake.  The Quickbeam (and SimpleOne and Frank Jones Senor) have rearward facing slanted horizontals.  Patrick Moore's various modded bikes have forward facing long slanted horizontals.  With that base foundation, one CAN run a rear rim brake, multiple rings and/or multiple cogs and not have to worry about brake re-configuration on each chain position choice.  That's a unique feature.  Mojo pointed out that if you set up your bike with a single ring and single cog THEN the bike "loses its uniqueness in the process."  Mojo did not say it's antithetical to the Quickbeam idea.  Slanted horizontals are super cool.  It's lame that so many singlespeeds have track ends instead of some kind of slanted horizontal.  It's lame that Rivendell Singlespeeds have to be unique in that feature.  If one's individual setup chooses not to employ that feature, that's builder's choice.  

BL in EC

[Eric Daume]

Rivs are not unique in this. Your own BMC Monster Cross has angled drop outs, as does the Surly Cross Check and just about very pre-early 80s road bike. 

Eric

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[Bill Lindsay]

Among "fixies", bikes with track ends and 120mm spacing, Rivendells are unique as far as I know in having slanted track ends.  

There are a bunch of bikes with forward facing slanted horizontals and 120mm spacing to take track wheels.  Patrick Moore's bike(s) as well as vintage road frames.  

Bikes with 130mm spacing and forward facing horizontals do indeed include the Black Mountain Monster cross and others

Bikes with 126mm spacing and forward facing horizontals include lots of 80's and 90's road frames.  

It's a nice feature to have on a multi-speed single speed with a rear brake.  

BL in EC

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[Bill Lindsay]

Not that anybody cares, but people reported the 16/19 was/is out of production.  That was partially true, and now is totally true.  When I reached out to Mike last month, he secured the last 16/19 that White Industries ever made.  It arrived today, so now I'm all set.  Eagle eyed parts buyers should keep your eyes peeled for a 16/19 because they are now officially 'scarce'.  Roaduno planners may have to make different plans if they were counting on a 16/19.  The 16/18 and 17/19 are still totally available.  

BL in EC

On Friday, August 25, 2023 at 8:42:19 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

Too bad that the DOS fws are disappearing as the Dingle 2X fixed cogs did. But question: My Monocog has a single speed freehub that takes a Shimano HG-spline splined cog. A quick search just now shows Bontrager and DT ss freehub bodies and some made by companies unknown to me, but are these currently and readily available? Did Shimano ever make one?

And: are any of these big enough to squeeze 2 3/32 cogs onto?

Does anyone make 2-speed freehubs/fh bodies? I did not find any.

Patrick Moore, tempted to put a 17/19 Dingle onto his SA ASC threaded driver -- but not worthwhile since the quickest on/off axle retention system with such hubs is wingnuts which are simply too cumbersome for quick roadside stoop-and-change operations.

[Bill Lindsay]

Patrick, I'm not sure what you are asking. You've got some kind of single speed cassette hub on your Monocog.  What do you want to buy?  Are you looking to buy a different cassette body that you will install into your existing rear wheel to carry two cogs?  Or are you looking to buy a different rear hub?  Or a different rear wheel?  

The easiest thing may be to just run a "normal" geared rear wheel and run the needed stack of spacers along with two cogs to get you what you want.  I'm running three cogs on a short Capper cassette on one of my 120mm rear end bikes, but I don't think your Monocog is a 120mm bike.  I imagine there are a number of ways you could run two cogs on your Monocog.  You would just need to decide that you are going to do it and start spending.  Given that you've been looking to replace the Monocog with a custom, maybe your gearing solution should be integrated with your frame choice.  

BL in EC

[Patrick Moore]

I'm not looking to buy anything yet. I'm wondering if such single speed freehubs are still made. I see ss freehub bodies for sale online but not hubs and I wonder if full hubs are for sale. I also wonder which are the cheapest decent ones and also which ones most users on the list would recommend. Also, I don't see any Shimano ss fh hubs so I wonder if Shimano ever made them.

As for buying, we'll see about that later.

I don't want to bother about a second cog on the Monocog but I think of a possible QR hub on a replacement with a short freehub body holding 2 cogs; freehub because now the DOS is out of production; also because I can choose my cogs. It's largely aesthetics and "philosophical squeamishness" but I'd rather have a hub made for or more close in design for the task: freewheel, 2 cogs, not a lot of space left over.

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[Bill Lindsay]

OK, good luck in your information gathering.  The hub vendor that I see selling a ton of different single speed variants is Onyx, but those have no chance at being anywhere close to your definition of cheapest.  For those who don't know from repetition, I guess it would be worthwhile for you to state the other specifics of the hub you seek.  OLD is 135?  Disc brake?  QR?  Do you care if it's center lock or 6-bolt?  

Also the DOS ENO freewheel is only discontinued in the 16/19 size.  You can still buy a 16/18, a 17/19 or a 20/22.  

BL in EC

[Patrick Moore]

It's all speculative at this point, since I don't know what if anything will replace the Monocog. I talk to a local builder next month and I'll likely be guided largely by him if we do agree, but a manually shifted QR rear hub is simple and works well, so assuming that setup the rear would be disc, 135 mm, prefer 6 bolt simply because that's what I already have.

(Maybe I'll ask him to build a frame with 114 mm OL rear for a 90 year old SA 2 speed hub but with clearance for 80 mm tires, and watch the result.)

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[Scott G.]

Who needs sticks or tin cans, you can make a floating chain drive train,

like Vernon Blake. The Veteran Cycle Club put out  neat little book on Mr. Blake,

worth hunting down.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/gravelbiking-its-nothing-new-you-know/

[Patrick Moore]

The Vernon Blake article is worth a read: https://www.flickr.com/photos/epicyclo/albums/72157626583588000

30 lb, 6 speeds with 46/38/24 chainrings welded to the crank spider, 16 and 18 cogs on either side of the hub, and no "change-gear" or chain slack takeup, instead a roller to keep the chain on the cog of choice, "decrocheurs" to skim mud off the cogs, paper thin 50 mm tires, hollow steel cranks, oil bath bearings, canti brakes, 400 gram lamp, and a 30 lb weight.

And Mr. Blake is at the time of this 1930 feature an elder cycling statesman looking back to the 1890s for solutions to modern problems.

[Scott G.]

Velocio was inventor of the floating chain, Blake rode with him in 1913 an became a convert

to the floating chain. Velocio abandoned the floating chain in 1919.

Blake wrote an article in the CTC Gazette in 1915 promoting the floating chain, in comparison

to the BSA 3 speed hub. The Brits of the era considered derailleurs a French plot to destroy

good English cycle chains by running them in a less then perfect straight line.

Source VCC Cycling History #3, Vernon Blake.

Which includes a Cycling article from 1919, showing how to setup a floating chain bike,

nicely illustrated.