Will's Roadini SS

[Ryan]

Have to say...I like that bike a lot. Very clean and elegant

And Will's post : https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/singlespeed-roadini?mc_cid=1ea8aef045&mc_eid=0074b52ae1 nails what I like about single-speeds; for some years now my SS PX-10 has been a fave. Apologies to Rivendell but riding that old Peugeot IS addictive.  I am curious to see the landing of the Roaduno in 2023

[JohnS]

Hello Ryan,

I'm very inspired my Will's Roadini build as well. I haven't done much SS riding, I'm more of a fixed or multi-gear rider. How do people feel about SS vs. fixed? Am I missing something by not riding SS some of the time?

Thanks,

JohnS

[Ryan]

Have to admit I haven't worked up the nerve for fixed. Props to those who do ride fixed. And I'd probably need a new wheel; my  Peugeot has a 126 OLN Campy 36-hole Record hub. I just love the simplicity and silence...particularly after I ditched an inexpensive SS freewheel for a WI ENO. Why did I do that for a 50 year-old frame with, to put it kindly, a paint job with a lot of  beausage? Who knows. But the bike runs great. 

[maxcr]

I owned a SimpleOne for a minute and I could relate to most of what Will mentioned in his blog, in fact his writing made me want to go back to SS as well.

The rear end of the bike definitely feels light and not dealing with derailleurs is liberating. For me coasting is just relaxing, and knowing I don't have to prepare my gears for whatever comes next after stopping made the ride more fun. For my flat-ish commute, the SimpleOne was great: fast, light... simple. (why did I sell it again?)

Fixed vs SS - I don't know, but for me fixed never felt good, mostly the slowing down and braking part. Maybe I should have given it more time.

Max

[Wesley]

Hi John,

You're missing out on coasting! I tried fixed-gear once and can't imagine why it became a popular way to ride around 2010. Especially if your single speed is geared low for climbing, it is a relief to be able to relax on the descent.

-Wes

[Brian Forsee]

I rode fixed when I first got into cycling. Now 75% or so of my bikes are single speeds and I have no fixed gears. The main thing I like about SS vs fixed is being able to have my feet/cranks in the ideal position whenever I want. Also yeah, coasting rules.

[Berkeleyan]

It's a different ride, and a fun ride, to have a single speed. I have a Dos Eno on my QuickBeam, but still stay primarily on the 15 tooth sprocket. The 17 comes into play for East Bay hills, but I rode (with camping gear) in the 15 from Berkeley to the Entmoot in Marin via San Francisco and Sausalito/Tiburon, and it was delightful. With no levers to move, you focus on building momentum, and save strength for hills.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Philip Williamson]

I’m a big fan of riding fixed. It just feels good to me, but I’m not an evangelist: “more for me, I guess!” I like having a second gear option (two rings, dingle cog), but almost never use the low gear. 

Will’s Roadini is like a Golden Age tribute bike. I love it. Now I kinda want one, but I’ll go swap tires around on the bikes I’ve got, instead. 

Philip

Sonoma County, Calif

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[JohnS]

On my Quickbeam there is a fixed 18 cog that I use all the time and on the other side is a fixed 16 that I never use. So as long as I can get it off the hub, I'll try one of the SS freewheels that I have. Should be able to work on it over the Christmas break. 

I agree Philip, changing tires, swapping bars, adding/removing fenders/racks all make a bike seem like new.

On the upside of fixed gear riding, I can do a very good track stand, being able to push forward or backward just makes it so much easier. I don't even try on my multi-geared bikes any more.

Thanks,
JohnS

[Eric Daume]

This is funny. I mostly ride a fixed gear road bike, but this thread has me thinking about a SS FW road bike. I could use a tensioner for that kind of build, which would open up a lot of interesting frames to think about. 

I could finally flip over one of my flip/flop wheels and give it a try, I guess. 

Eric

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[Eric Marth]

Will: "I used Blue Lug natural cotton tape and shellac'd it clear for that stale pee look I was aiming for." 

I love a good shellac recipe and keep them in my mental index. 

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[Andrew Turner]

Fixed gear riding keeps you on your toes especially around traffic. It's a fantastic feeling having the bike instantly react with your fast twitch muscles that keeps you really focused on the 'now.' I also think it makes you a way better driver because it teaches you to scan your surroundings efficiently. Single speed is much more relaxing and cathartic, and IMO better suited for longer, hillier rides. My favorite things in life are the ones you don't notice you're using and riding single speed puts a sorta invisible shroud over your bike, leaving you to enjoy the scenery more and think about your bike, less. 

I'll definitely be going back and forth between 8 speed downtube shifting and SS on my new Roadini thanks to Will's post...at least until my knees start to complain. 

Andrew 
TN

[Patrick Moore]

I prefer fixed over ss for road riding, even though I am now down to a single fixed gear bike. While I do love my AM (close-sh ratio: 72" 65" 56") IGH -- I ride it like a ss with 3 ranges -- I do miss doing my mostly flatland recreational grocery rides -- 11 to 20 loaded miles -- on a fixed gear, and in fact have a sub-120 mm fixed/free hub waiting to be built into an alternative wheel for this bike (2020 Matthews #2). With wingnuts and a 17/19 Dingle cog I should be able to handle headwinds with panniers. 

OTOH, I do prefer ss for dirt riding; tried fixed off road with 175 mm cranks and really hated downhills and tail winds without being able to coast. I think I had the bike geared at about 64" per the 63xc.com site. Switched to 64" ss and 170s with great relief. My current Monocog 29er is geared at 65" and with 71mm tires (back to 175s tho') it's great for flatland sandy trails.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 10:11 AM JohnS <shar...@gmail.com> wrote:

... . How do people feel about SS vs. fixed? Am I missing something by not riding SS some of the time?

Thanks,

JohnS

[Patrick Moore]

Ryan: it's perfectly safe to ride with a fixed cog screwed to a freewheel hub; just don't use backpressure, or don't use it very hard. I rode thousands of miles like this with no lockring. 

But you can put Loctite on the threads too. Before I learned that red Loctite requires heat to break the bond, I resorted to my bench vise to remove a high-quality -- Dura Ace -- track cog that I'd Loctited onto an ENO hub with Red, using the rim as the lever. I applied all my strength but couldn't budge it; in fact, I shattered the cog int 3 pieces and put tiny little waves into the ENO threads (it was still usable, thank God). So a bit of red Loctite would be a practically as secure as a reverse-threaded lockring.

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I've grown to appreciate both SS and fixed riding.  I had a whole separate draft reply started the other day on this thread but it kind of started going off the rails and deleted probably for the best.  I first tried a dedicated SS build on an old curbside rescue road bike after a couple longer/hillier local rides where I just didn't shift and realized those were some of my most enjoyable rides to date (~10yrs ago at the time.)  That rescued road bike was only my second bike and first actual road bike, complementing my old rigid 26" MTB.  I put enough work into it to get it rolling with the original 2x6 (stock 52-40 x 14-28) drivetrain and downtube shifters and enjoyed the luxury of bar/stem swapping with no shifters or excess cabling to address.  Those memorable no-shift, rolling, road rides I think I stayed in the 40x17 or 40x15, so when I later settled on a rebuild plan and drivetrain update for what was meant to remain a geared road bike I also took the opportunity to acquire a true SS rear wheel to ride while obtaining the rest of the build parts and/or cleaning/servicing whatever I'd reuse for the geared build.  There's a lot more to the story on this particular build, it's ultimate demise, and my personal evolution into DIY bike tinkering, finding my way here and to iBob, etc. which I will spare at this time, but that period of interim single speeding definitely converted me to a SS/fixed fan and I'd echo many comments and thoughts already added here and in Will's blog post.

I now mix fixed and SS to a great degree and similar to Andrew, I also enjoy SS freewheeling on some of those longer/hillier rides (when time permits for more adventurous outings) and won't attempt to restate what he has already described so well.

One thing I will mention is when I did eventually try fixed for the first time, I found it to be equally exhilarating and nerve wracking, and kind of felt like re-learning how to ride a bike in a way, having never been directly attached to a drivetrain like that and unlearning decades of coasting habits!   I now really enjoy the feel of fixed for much of my local riding and expect to keep it in rotation with 2 different flip flop wheels on hand.

To Patrick's note on using fixed cogs on standard freewheel threading... aren't traditional cup/cone bottom bracket lockrings the same threading (for the most part) and is there any value in using one of those for extra security or is the same direction threading pretty much render them useless vs. the force that may be applied with firm backpedaling?  This is more a curiosity whether anyone has had success or failure attempting this... and I forget the name for it but the chain wrap around the bottom bracket trick I also recall reading/viewing somewhere to tighten or help loosen stubborn fixed cogs with wheel mounted and bike flipped over... roto-fix or something, was that it?

Brian Cole

[Slin]

> I first tried a dedicated SS build on an old curbside rescue road bike after a couple longer/hillier local rides where I just didn't shift and realized those were some of my most enjoyable rides to date.

This got me picturing Leah, aka BicycleBelleDingDing, with a third Platypus, set up SS or fixed... and maybe bringing it on a club ride sometime.

[Jingy]

Brian wrote  <<To Patrick's note on using fixed cogs on standard freewheel threading... aren't traditional cup/cone bottom bracket lockrings the same threading (for the most part) and is there any value in using one of those for extra security or is the same direction threading pretty much render them useless vs. the force that may be applied with firm backpedaling?  This is more a curiosity whether anyone has had success or failure attempting this...>>

Yes, an english thread BB lockring will fit the freewheel hub threads(not old weird french thread obviously) and can be used for extra security against the cog loosening up from backpedaling. I used this setup on a fixed gear commuter for a number of years. It may not be enough for tricky skids and other nonsense those fixie kids are into these days, but for normal riding it is quite helpful.

Jim in Mpls

[Patrick Moore]

I'd like to hear about and see photos of single-speeded or fix-ified mountain bikes set up as all rounders. One of the nicest single speeds/fixeds I owned, and one of the very few discarded bikes I wish I'd kept (the others are largely ss or fixed too) was that very early '90s Diamond Back Axis Team with TA Pro 5 Vis crank with 42 t ring on long spindle pulling a 17t fixed cog for a 67" gear; Flite saddle and Noodles at the perfect reach and height on a 10 cm Dirt Drop stem. The high bb let me pedal at speed around corners and the handling, tho' a bit sedate by brisk road bike standards, was entirely and wholly neutral and seamless and pleasant. 

I've head of using a bb lockring as a lockring for a fixed cog, but I've never bothered with one. I'll be interested in hearing if they add any security.

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I've had thoughts of single speeding my Clem H and even had a Paul Melvin and SS cassette cog in reserve for when the time came.  That was until the Melvin was called upon for temporary use on an unrelated project only to end up getting mangled when a stick jammed into the rear wheel breaking spokes bending the main arm of the Melvin (fortunately Paul says they could supply replacement parts that may not be listed for sale on the site so just need to call to order when ready to put it the Melvin back in service.)  

I know others have single speeded their Clem's with WI Eno Eccentric hubs like Will did for his Roadini but I also just caught up with a recent VO newsletter highlighting projects to come in the new year and saw they have an eccentric BB coming for 68mm and 73mm shells.  It says for Hollowtech spindles and I do not currently have any Hollowtech cranks but will be curious to see what kind of total investment it may turn out to be compared to an ENO wheel to achieve a similar overall conversion.

https://velo-orange.com/blogs/favoritewriteups/vos-2022-year-in-review-and-a-peek-into-2023

Also worth noting is the forthcoming VO Rando frame with modular dropouts allowing either vertical or track end attachments.  They do not yet specify rear hub spacing but I'm guessing 130mm is likely.

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Here’s the very brief SS ATB build based around the Paul Melvin.  26” MTB Moustache build was done as a nod to the XO series and courtesy of my parts stash.  It was fun while it lasted in fall of ‘21 and was more or less just meant to allow some shakedown riding before cabling up for a geared build I hoped to put more mixed terrain miles on in the following year. 

 After just a few short rides I’d later trash the rear wheel and Melvin from the stick incident but the remnants of this build would instead move to a direct drive indoor trainer last winter and now this frame is in process for a hand me down 1x flat bar build for next spring.

Despite being too small, I’ve always enjoyed the handling and versatility of this frame and have had it since ‘94 as my first bike shop bike (before Mongoose turned big box store brand.)  It even fits 700x38mm under Tektro 539 brakes.

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[Wesley]

Patrick, I think you've talked about having a Redline Monocog 29er... that was my more MTB-type single speed, too. I made it into an all-rounder by drilling and tapping the frame to mount rack and fenders, and I converted it to a manual 3-speed with three cog/chainring combinations that all added up to the same number of teeth. This was the bike that I built wheels for using unicycle rims for extra wideness. Finally, I put on Albatross bars and a CETMA front rack. In that configuration, I toured it from Fairbanks to Juneau, Alaska after I finished college at the University of Alaska Fairbanks. It was a very nice ride and I regret that I gave it away when I moved overseas for a few years.

-Wes

[Patrick Moore]

I'm still curious whether righthand thread lockrings add any security to a thread-on cog; it seems to me that butted tight against the cog, the cog and lockring make up a single threaded piece that will respond to reverse pressure just as the cog alone will. I'd be happy to hear more on the subject. Perhaps it adds security simply by adding more threads to the connection?

That said, again, I never had a problem with just a cog and no lockring; and of course red Loctite will stick that cog onto the threads almost permanently until you heat the stuff.

Patrick Moore, who did once torque the threads off a cheap stamped cog clockwise on a cheap Normandy fw hub when accelerating hard from a light.

[Patrick Moore]

The Monocog 29er is a worthy steed; my present 2012 model (much modified from the original by replacing crank, pedals, cog, brakes, bar, levers, saddle) is my second; I had a 2010 even more modified with drop bar. I'd be perfectly happy with the 2012 tho' it's far more beefy than I need if only it had about 2 cm more clearance in back for a true 76 mm tire. As it is the ~71-72 mm tire clears the stays by as little as 1 mm (tire wobbles) and rubs at the slightest provocation.

If your tour was pre-fatbike, did you ever think of the SnoCat rims? I used those on a Fargo until I switched to tubeless.

Do you have any photos of the touring Monocog?

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Wesley]

Hey Patrick,

I had to hook up the scanner for these, lol. They don't really show much of the bike, but hopefully enough. This tour was before I put the unicycle rims on. When I bought the bike (2006? 2007?) the Pugsley was an option and the folks making Sno-Cat rims were operating there in Fairbanks, but I wasn't looking for a snow bike at the time. I bought the bike in college and I built the unicycle wheels in grad school, so my spending money was extremely tight and I had to get creative.
-Wes

[Patrick Moore]

Wesley: Many thanks for taking the trouble to scan and post these photos; wonderful old photos of a nice bike. No one can claim that the Monocog 29er is not very, very stout -- even stouter than Riv models! -- but the whole point of the bike is to install fat tires which make tubing worries far, far less important. With the WTB Rangers at 71-72 mm at 13 to 15 psi even the girder-stiff Monocog ride smoothly over bumps. (If I had 1 cm more clearance at the stays I'd buy a new wheelset with rims fatter than the Monocog's OEM Alex 24 mm OW rims now and get at least the true labeled 76 mm from the tires for even more plushness.)

I built my earlier, 2010 Monocog 29er up with a real mishmash of parts: 130 bcd 170 mm road crank with 42 t ring because I got the crank cheap and I didn't like the tiny OEM ring and 175 mm cranks, Salsa Woodchipper (I think; it was a wide, flared drop bar for off road), Flite saddle (all my bikes, pavement and dirt, have had Flites for decades), and BB7 road-model cable disc brakes. 700CX 60 mm Big Apples -- 29" tall -- so that with a 19 t cog I got a 64" gear; nowadays I'd gear it 1 or 2 gi higher. But great fun until I replaced it with a first-gen Fargo -- that was the bike I had a Snocat SL wheelset built for.

Patrick Moore, who does indeed realize that we are far, far indeed from Will's Roadini. [But I truly think that the Monocog 29er is Rivendellian in overall purpose if not in aesthetics or quality.)

2012 Monocog 29er #2 now has a nicer, large gastank bag.

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