Drops vs albatross. Easy to swap or do I need two bikes?

[Michael]

Looking for a single bike for casual rides on bike paths/paved/gravel/dirt roads with the occasional 100 mile ride thrown in. Will suggest the Sam Hillborne, which I'm leaning towards. I assumed I would build it with drops for the long rides but I recently fell in love with albatross bars for upright lazy bike path rides. 

Is there a way to quickly/easily swap handlebars or are two bikes inevitable? 

Would a Sam with drops and an appaloosa or atlantis w/ albatross be a good combo or is that too much overlap? 

[Mathias Steiner]

Hi Michael,

You've come to the place. OF COURSE we'll suggest two bikes as the inevitable solution. More = better, N+1, etc.

Meanwhile, there are solutions to swapping, for instance

http://www.bgcycles.com/q2s

I think that site is still in business, but I'm not sure. He was after swapping from flat to drop bars, though.
I had a page open recently for a builder that incorporates S&S couplers; if you search for those and 'disconnects', you should find what you're looking for.

For an all-round bike, the Sam would be my choice, too. Heavy enough for anything that's not crazy, lively enough for road riding, cantilever brakes for tire flexibility. You have to get the top tube length right. It would help if you already had a bike or three where you can try out different bars. I'm 6 ft even, 88 PBH and I like a 57-58 cm top tube. Even then I need a short stem for road bars. I use Noodles, with moderate reach (95 mm I think). I have one bike set up with a Northroads bar, it's got a 59 cm top tube, and I'm using the longest stem from the bin at 120 mm. It's an old Rockhopper and i've never run a drop on it.. probaby be on a 60 mm stem, and have to push the saddle forward, which is not ideal. Get a cheap older road bike, a stem adapter, and different 'threadless' stems for painless playing around.

I know that Rivendell pushes the idea that you can put different cockpits on the same bike, and they're not wrong...it's hard to make a bad bike.. but I think we're better served by figuring out our fit and what setup we want, and then buy the frame to match. I could ride a 57 or 60 Sam with swept-back bars, and I'd probably buy a 54 to use with drops, based on the effective top tube. I'd be unhappy if it looked goofy with the stem at saddle height, which it might. 

FIgure out which bars you like, and take a look a their dimensions. Switching from a drop to a flat bar makes a lot of sense, but swept-back, especially the long Boscos and the like, can put you bolt upright. Some people like that; it feels awkward to me.

I keep re-using this picture, since it's pertinent to your question.. which comes up frequently.
Personally, I'd want two bikes, so one is always ready to go.
Put your money towards the riding you love the best, get a beater for the other kind.

cheers -mathias

[Tim Bantham]

You could build the Sam with Albatross bars and it would serve your needs perfectly as a graveler and bike path cruiser. You could also do that 100 mile ride with Albatross bars if you wanted. That said I do understand the desire for drops. I have those on my Sam. I've also had Billie bars and Albatross as well. All were great but different.  Swapping bars is not that difficult but there is an expense. You'll need a different stem, levers, grips. While doable to swap it wouldn't be practical to swap back in forth.

If you wanted to add a second bike either a Appaloosa or an Atlantis with upright bars would be a great choice. These bikes are different enough from the Sam to justify the additional bike in your stable.

On Wednesday, May 1, 2024 at 2:23:08 AM UTC-4 Michael wrote:

[DavidP]

While it's possible to swap back and forth between Albatross bars and drop bars, and there are some setup tricks that could facilitate this, I would not be eager to do it regularly.

As Mathias demonstrated you'd need a much longer stem on the Albatross bike (30-40mm longer) to have similar positions, which can make cabling that works for both tricky.

Using downtube shifters would completely eliminate the need to touch the shifters and cabling. I have a bike that has the front shifter on the downtube and the rear shifter on a thumbie mount clamped to the stem - a setup that also would require no change to swap stem and bar. Hinged thumbies clamped to the bar could be setup with cable lengths that would work with both bar/stem combos. Bar end shifters would be the most work, requiring the cable to be pulled for each swap.

Brakes are trickier, but cable disconnects designed for travel bikes could be one way to speed up the required cable swap.

I'd be more inclined to setup two bikes and differentiate them a bit in use (e.g. put racks and a basket on the Albatross bike), which is how I "justify" my overlapping bikes.

Sam and Appaloosa would be a good pairing, though I'd be tempted to go with a Homer for a bit more separation.

-Dave

[eddietheflay]

May I suggest mounting one or the other of these "drop" bars at a comfortable height and be happy with a single bike?

Either Top Shelf from Red Shift or Condors from Soma. They look less than usual but provide comfort that is more than usual.

https://redshiftsports.com/products/top-shelf-handlebar-system

https://www.somafab.com/archives/product/condor-2-handlebar

[Erik Wright]

Answering on the practical side (easily swapping handlebars) rather than the “should I own two bikes” side of things, Russ from Path Less Pedaled did a video a while back on optimizing 1 bike for easy cockpit swaps. Basically using a little Jagwire cable splitting doodad so the cables and housing can mostly stay in place when swapping bars. It makes more sense if your bike has full-length housing, but there may still be some nuggets in there that are helpful.

https://youtu.be/qj0qOyw_Es8?si=wKDJKxwHhdtKdBg0

Could be a good in-between option while you’re building up your second bike ;)

Erik, Philly

On Wednesday, May 1, 2024 at 2:23:08 AM UTC-4 Michael wrote:

[Johnny Alien]

Let me suggest that you get yourself some albastache bars. I think you would feel comfortable in all of your scenarios with those handlebars. They are the secret weapon in Rivendell's offerings.

[Ginz]

I have a bike that swaps between Nitto Bullmoose and Albatross.  Friction shifting and mtb-style brake levers makes the swap very easy.  

Swapping between flat bar brake levers and drop levers is going to be more fiddly because you will have to use cable splitters (with mtb levers you can just slide the cable head out of the lever via the barrel adjuster's slot provided your cable routing and housing length is similar for both bars) and you will probably have to adjust the brake cable tension each time you swap and make sure your brake pad clearence is good.

From personal experience, I wouldn't want to swap bars more than once in a while unless I really had a space limitation and extra time to plan my rides.  But, of course it can be done.

Good Luck!

Ginz

[Garth]

Well in the last year I changed from Albatross bars to Zipp XPLR 70 drop bars and a "simple" swap would only be possible if :

1. Using Ritchey/Davinci breakaway cable thingies. 

2. Flexible with saddle choice and position. Here's where for me at least doesn't work so good as with a lower drop bar I needed a much more narrow saddle to facilitate the proper hip/leg fucntion that came with it. So right there the idea of a "simple" swap would include a saddle and/or post.

3. Flexible with bar/stem choice.  I used the same 130mm stem as my frames already have longer reach forward of the BB than most Riv and stock frames of any brand. Mathiass's image has to be qualified though, as it appears the drop bars imaged are of a longer reach variety, 90-110mm. The bars I use have 70mm reach, and even shorter reach bars are available. You also have to take account of the postion change, and it's not just something that can be quantified by numbers. Even if you need a new stem, it's better that way anyways so you just swap the whole bar/stem setup, if it would be done of course. 

Myself I think most people look and ride too scrunched on their bikes, reagrdless of the angle of their back. Swaps are fine for long term but not so simple for the short term. FWIW, I think most bike fitting "advice" isn't worth much at all, lest it encourage one to try positions for yourself, as you just can't do it on a stationary bike and assume everything will be fine while riding for hours. Don't assume there is only "one" position either. "Be as water".... as water(LIFE) can't be contained, constrained or limited in any way. Go "outside the box" of what anyone says in person or in print. The best fit-ter is thy Self. 

 

That said, all in all, two bikes set up in their own way are so much easier to just hop on and go as you like. 

[jeffrey kane]

First off: no one here is going to try and talk you out of two bikes ... :)

However, a single bike with an alternate set of bars isn't a bad idea at all.

As suggested in the thread: down tube shifters are the way to go for ease of swapping without having to touch with your shifting set up.

Center pull brakes also make for an easy quick change. 

My method is to have two complete bar & stem cockpits (an upright and a drop bar set up) - each with front and rear brake levers, cables, housings, ferrules and cable hangers intact.

Once you get your fit and braking dialed in swapping really becomes a fairly no-nonsense 20 to 25 minute exercise thanks to a few turns of your barrel adjusters here and there.

On Wednesday, May 1, 2024 at 9:07:47 AM UTC-4 Ginz wrote:

[Roy Summer]

I agree with Johnny Alien. Get Albastashe bars. I ride an X0-1 with original mustache bars (precursor to Albastashe). Serves every purpose: long road, fast road, light (unloaded) touring. Allows you to stretch out or sit up as you want, with multiple hand positions. No switching necessary. Remember, road levers and mountain levers require different brake cable ends. Too much wrenching, not enough riding.

[Miles Payton]

This is my shameless plug for Albacore bars, if you need something wider than the Albastache which I found to be quite narrow, or if you want to use 22.2mm clamp brake levers/shifters. I mocked them up on my Atlantis and they were a delight. I just prefer drops.

They're a limited run for Hope Cyclery but you can buy mine!

https://hopecyclery.com/products/preorder-leks-x-hope-cyclery-albacore-handlebar?variant=44093063201008

[Chuck Blessing]

Just so happens that RWB has a BLOG on this specific topic. https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/how-to-upright-a-drop-bar-bike 

[Pancake]

I have a bit of a crazy solution that I ran on my Sam and currently run on my Charles Gallup prototype: albatross bars, upside down with handlebar extensions at the midpoint of the bend in the bar. This gives me a drop similar to the Albastash, a sort of in the hoods position on the midset bar ends, and a couple other positions so I can stretch my hands out on longer rides. I’m about to use it on a century this weekend. 

[esoterica etc]

Michael,

Due to an overseas move last year, I had to scale down to a single bike, but I didn't want to have to choose between drops or upright bars because I like them both equally. So I implemented a "quick swap" cockpit system that I'd been playing around with in my head for a little while. It uses the Ritchey Quick-Disconnect system for the brakes, and I relocated the shifter to the downtube using an Origin8 adapter. Each cockpit has its own stem, brake cables, housing, and a pair of Ritchey Q-D brake units. Garth mentions having to readjust the seat every time a different cockpit is used, but I haven't found the need to do that with my Selle Anatomica saddle. It takes about 3 minutes to do the change- simply unscrew each Q-D unit, line up the cable slots in the front cable hanger to extract the cable, and remove the threaded stem. So far it's been a great system that I'm very happy with; so much so that I'm in the process of putting together a third cockpit with a Jones bar for some of the trickier singletrack that's nearby.

~Mark

Kailua, HI

[Abe Gardner]

If you go the Albastashe route … I have Albastashe bars with Shimano Tiagra levers and a Nitto tallux stem (with shim for 25.4 to 26) that originally came on a Charles Gallop prototype direct from Riv. I’ve got Silver bar end pods for both sides too (or a micro shifter as in the photos)

$100 shipped for the bars and levers (or $85 for local pick up in Napa or the SF Bay Area) unless someone tells me that’s more or less than the going rate. Add $15 per pod or the microshift shifter. 

Abe

On May 1, 2024, at 2:58 PM, esoterica etc <esoter...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Brenton Eastman]

I've had a Sam for 4 years now. It was my only bike for 3.5 years. I started with drops, then Aherne MAP, then back to drops, then SimWorks Getaround, then... bought a Roadini frame and built it up with Sam's old drops. 

Swapping got tiresome, and while the Sam was equally great in "fast mode" vs "trail/cruiser mode" it became clear that having 2 bikes made sense. I did give one-bike-life a real chance and I was happy the whole time.

[jeffbog...@hotmail.com]

Abe, I sent you a PM for the albastache bar, thanks!