I need to repair or mask scratches in new black paint

[Dave Small]

Hi all,

Two years ago I bought a new black Sam Hillborne frame from Rivendell.  For reasons not relevant to this post, I couldn't do anything with it then so kept it unopened in the box in my basement until this past weekend, when I opened the box intending to take it to my mechanic to have it built up.  Upon removing the frame from the box and tearing away the bubble wrap from the top tube I discovered extensive scratches on the top of the top tube midway between the seat and head tubes.  Cardboard had rubbed through the bubble wrap surrounding the top tube and then rubbed against the frame as the frame wobbled left to right during shipping, and this was the result.  

The scratches are superficial but readily apparent at a glance, and are in nearly the worst spot possible.  I'd like to fix or mask these somehow, or else I'll see them every time I look down and be unhappy with the bike.  The best solution would be to have the top tube (and only the top tube) repainted, but I don't know a local frame painter (in Indianapolis) who I could take it to for that, or if a painter could paint only the top tube and have everything match.  I have three other ideas, but don't know if I'd be happy with them once they're implemented:

1. Have a cream panel painted on the top tube to match the cream head tube and the cream seat tube panel.

2. Wrap the scratched part of the TT with black or honey leather, which would provide the additional benefit of giving me a contact spot to use to lean the bike against a pole if I ever need to.  

3. Twine the scratched section, with shellac if there's no chance of the shellac hurting the paint and without shellac if there is.  

I'll always have a honey saddle on the bike, if that helps you picture these options.  

Do any of you know a painter near Indianapolis who could paint the top tube to match?  What do y'all think of the ideas above?  Do you have any better options?  I'd appreciate the input.  Thanks.    

Dave

Indianapolis, IN

[lconley]

Get some 1000 & 2000 grit wet/dry sand paper and start polishing, 1000 grit first, then 2000. It will take a while, but the sand paper is so fine that you won't be able to remove too much paint too fast. I imagine that that are some YouTube directions on this sort of thing. The scratches don't look like they have penetrated through the color coat, so you can probably make them virtually disappear. when you are done, use some rubbing compound, then a coat of wax.

Or if it's a 55, you could sell it to me, cheap.

Laing

Delray Beach FL

[Dave Small]

Thanks, Laing.  Sad to say, it's a 58cm.  

I thought about polishing but didn't want to make it worse (I've learned the hard way that I have a tendency to do that sometimes) if I had other options.  I hadn't thought about Youtube, and it's a good idea.  I'll look there.  

Dave

[lconley]

You could also try an auto or motorcycle detailer or a paint-less dent remover professional if you don't want to do it yourself.

You can always start with 3000 or 5000 grit or the highest grit you can find to develop some experience and confidence. The higher the grit number, the less paint it removes.

Laing

[George Schick]

Laing - instead of the W/D sandpaper how about rubbing or, better yet, polishing compound, applied with a rag and some water?  I've rubbed out scratches on automobiles with that stuff before and it works just fine.  You should be able to get it at an auto part store.

[Joe Bernard]

I think that's the ticket, get that Scratch-Off stuff at an auto parts store that goes on like wax and wipes off. Or just find a bike painter to do the toptube, gloss black shouldn't be too hard to match.

[George Schick]

Joe - or just take it to a bike painter and get their opinion on whether the scratches can be removed by just being rubbed out (with whatever technique they'd use).  And then see if they'd do if if it sounds to risky for a DIY job.  A good painter should agree to that and for a modest price.

[Mark Roland]

This stuff works pretty good.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Meguiars-M10532-Mirror-Glaze-Ultra-cut-Compound-32-Oz/29724007

If you don't like walmart, Harbor Freight sells it for $14 more. So does Autozone. Walmart is nominally better than Amazon, which I don't use. Got mine at the local Autozone, but in a smaller bottle.

You might need to wax or polish afterward. If any deeper scratches remain, I use a black marker.

[WETH]

Dave,
I did option number 2 on my 1994 Bridgestone RBT. Shipping company dented the toptube. I love the bike but was bothered by seeing the dent. So I wrapped a portion of the toptube with bar tape.
All the best,
Erl
PS: I love your black Sam- a great color.

On Wednesday, February 12, 2020 at 3:18:01 PM UTC-5, Dave Small wrote:

[Drw]

Seconded. Don’t know what kind of bars/stem you intend on using, but if that’s the area where the bars would swing around and hit, I’d wrap that area anyway to prevent a dent.
It almost looks like the area you’d want to protect, but hard to know without the front end installed.

[masmojo]

Go to the local hobby shop get a small bottle of Testors gloss black.
Whilst having a small amount of paint thinner handy; dab paint in the scratch with a small brush then wipe the area quickly witha soft clean rag. The idea is to leave paint in the scratch whilst removing it from the surrounding area. Might take several tries. If your first attempt is unacceptable, simply wipe off with the paint thinner and try again until you get it.

Let dry and buff/polish.

[Ian A]

I agree with others to use some cutting compound then follow with polish. The scratches should blend very well. The automotive product I am used to in the UK is called T Cut and is available in a black colour. Almost certainly an equivalent product is available at your local auto store.

Those scratches should polish right out or be sufficiently improved as to be unnoticeable. Repainting/hiding would likely be much more noticeable.

IanA Alberta Canada (currently using compound polish purchased at Napa for such scratches).

[ascpgh]

Scratches can polish out as others have described with less aggressive than W/D high count fine grit papers. For the possibility that you are seeing marring of the clear coat over the paint, I'd sure try the least invasive methods first so you don't go into the clear any more than necessary or the paint coat. 

I've used a very soft polish as a first pass mar/scratch remedy. Had good luck with the fine material provided in a headlight lens buffing kit. Used by hand with a rag it's very controllable both in area affected and force applied (intended for use on a provided buffing wheel with a power drill). I had it so I tried it before buying another. Other home soft polish examples are toothpaste, kitchen or bathroom fixture cleansers, Barkeepers friend. 

If deeper injuries or actual voids are present, you can avoid the re-paint thing by trying a cabinet touch-up stick. The material can fill the void, be shaped to flushness and buffed to a gloss. I've used the black to cover brad holes in prefinished matching trim for cabinetry and was surprised how I could buff until it had the right sheen for the rest of the finish. 

I had a black car a while back and it turns out that black paint can be thought of as a specialty in that field and touch-ups are a lot more troubling than imaginable. A car body offers large planes of finish and greater ability to compare original paint to touch up or feathered-in repaint. Bikes are much more forgiving. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, February 12, 2020 at 3:18:01 PM UTC-5, Dave Small wrote:

[Steven Frederick]

Yah, rubbing compound and a "scratch remover" polish would be a good place to start.  You can always move up to fine sandpaper if that is insufficient.

Steve

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[Pancake]

Lots of good replies, but my opinion based on some similar paint and clear coat repairs to other Rivendells:

Before considering sand paper, definitely try scratch removal compound. Specifically, Meguiar's Ultimate Compound. It's $10 at Walmart, AutoZone, or O'Reilly's ... or free if you swing by my place in Napa, I'll just give you a bigger dollop than you need or try to fix the scratch with you in my garage. Utlimate Compound is fantastic for your situation, you can work it by hand until you get the result you're after and it is nearly impossible to damage your paint with them when working them by hand. You could follow up with Ultimate Polish but it's probably unnecessary, the Ultimate Compound is your fix. There are others, Scratch-X comes to mind. I would not suggest a more aggressive compound (like Turtles) because they can leave visible swirls in a gloss finish.

If that doesn't fix these scratches, though I'm confident it would, you could use a tiny brush to add some Testor's enamel paint, let it mostly dry for an hour or so, then smooth the surface level to the original paint using some denatured alcohol on a cloth to gently remove the fresh paint until it's smooth. This is usually only needed if the scratch goes below the paint to the metal. On black it would work very well and I'd be surprised if anyone could tell unless they know where to look and are less than 12" away when looking. Again, if you bring the paint I would happily do this for you.

Auto detailing is my side hustle ... with the only issue being that I never charge anyone for it because I only work on friend's cars from my garage. I'd be happy to help with your Sam (mine is a blue 56cm double tt) if you happen to be in the SF Bay Area.

Alternatively, Grant says nail polish with a different color or just let it stay and call it beusage. 

Abe

[masmojo]

OK, I was looking at this on my phone last night and on my small screen the white patch looked like what you were trying to fix; Now I am on my computer I see that the white mark is just the refection of the light & the skratches are to the left of that.

Better, I agree it looks as thought the scratches are confined to the clear coat; so although they may not looks that great they are not serious and the compound is probably the best bet.

Oh, & the black Sams are sick looking!

[Dave Small]

Thanks much to everyone who's responded.  I love this forum, with its cumulative knowledge and folks who're willing to take the time to help others.  

Laing mentioned Youtube, which was a great suggestion that I hadn't considered.  Forty minutes of watching scratch-removal videos convinced me that the scratches can probably be removed by polishing, or if not removed then at least diminished to the extent that they won't torment me when I ride and look down.  Responses that followed Laing's confirmed that the right kind of polishing might do the trick.  Many of the Youtube videos warn about being too aggressive or the possibility of leaving streaks or fine lines so the solution is not without risk, and each one touts a different product or slightly different approach that the poster thinks is the best to avoid those risks.  

I quickly realized that most of the videos were posted by auto detailers.  I'm still nervous about the potential unintended consequences of a novice like me using the wrong product, or using the right product wrongly, so I'm going to take it to a local detailer to see if this is an easy fix for someone with experience.  I suspect it is, and it might even be easy for me, but this frame is too nice for me to risk making worse with my inexperience.  I wish I had a beater bike to practice on but I don't.  

I'll report back and let y'all know what happens.  Hopefully there's a happy ending ahead.  

Dave

[George Schick]

Dave - practice on someone else's car :-)

[Mark Roland]

I've used the product I recommended above on bicycles with good results. You could try a bit on the bottom of the bottom bracket or a chainstay.

[Dave Small]

Hi all,

The story has a happy ending thanks for a local auto detailer.  I took it to him yesterday and said "can you fix this?"  He thumbed it and said "I think so, but my nail is catching one of the scratches so it may not come out completely."  I said that's fine, even if it's just greatly diminished I could live with it.  He put a dollop of liquid goop on a rag and polished for a minute, reloaded his rag and polished for a minute more, said "I'm gonna switch to something lighter," disappeared in back for a minute, came back with a dollop of something else on the rag, polished for a minute, inspected it, and said "can you still see it?"  I looked and said "nope, you're a genius."  

It took him about 6 minutes to fix the problem, which says a lot for relying on experience.  And I got to watch him, so I'll be comfortable doing it myself next time if there is a next time.  I brought it home, put a coat of wax on top, and took it over to my mechanic a while ago.  He won't finish it before I leave town later this week, but he'll have it done by the time I return in a month.  I'm looking forward to seeing the finished bike.  

Thanks again to all those who chimed in.  

Dave

[George Schick]

I think you did the right thing by taking it to a professional and I'm glad it turned out well.  It was a learning experience for some of us, too.  After reading about it on this thread I went out and bought some Meguir's Ultimate Compound.  Never would have known about it had you not brought up the issue with your frame on this blog.

[Dave Small]

Thanks, George.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who learned something from this.  

Dave

[Steve Palincsar]

On 2/16/20 7:07 PM, 'Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

Thanks, George.  I'm glad I'm not the only one who learned something from this.  

Dave

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