Share your alternative rain jacket suggestions

[Ian Buckley]

Hey all,

My Patagonia shell just bit the dust and I'm looking to replace it with something less plasticy. I recently bought a bespoke waxed cotton coat that I love, but it's more suited for urban activities than time in the woods. 

Does anyone have jackets they'd recommend for day rides and S240s? I know I can't get waterproofness without plastics, and I'm okay with that. Water resistance is good enough for me.

[Ian Buckley]

For anyone curious, this is the jacket I bought. The jackets are made seasonally in batches by a woman in Vancouver, Canada.

[Kim H.]

Look into Driza-bone clothing:

https://drizabone.com.au/

Kim Hetzel.

[Eric Marth]

Hilitrek makes some 100% cotton Ventile cycling jackets that are waterproof. I don't own one but have admired the classical designs and the colors they offer. Lots of nice warm neutrals. 

By no means cheap but Made in Scotland and from reviews seem to be of high quality. 

https://hilltrek.co.uk/shop-by-activity/cyclists/

[Garth]

I have to ask ! What is meant by a jacket biting the dust ? I mean, part of what you pay for from Patagonia is their very good guarantee and in-house repair for their products. I've read many accounts where someone took a garment that was either in need of repair or seemingly worn out to Patagonia online returns or a Patagonia retail store. If it can't be repaired,  they'll offer them another comparable garment or store credit to buy something else. It's a win-win for both as the customer is happy and loyal to the brand and it keeps a jacket out the trash as Patagonia will then recycle it.

[Ian Buckley]

Fair question, Garth. The jacket’s zipper broke and the lining is disintegrating, likely because of improper care. I’ve never been good at preserving synthetic shells, which is one of the reasons I’m interested in alternative fabrics.

My local Patagonia offered to recycle my old jacket and sell me a new one at a discount, but I just don’t think I’m meant to own plastic jackets. As an aside, I’ve had Patagonia mend other products for me and it’s kept me loyal to the brand for several purchases. They currently offer a waxed cotton jacket as well, but I tried it on and it didn’t fit me well.

[Ian Buckley]

Thanks for the suggestions, Eric and Kim!

[Gary L]

I'll second the Hilltrek recommendation. They make different versions and fabric weights and single or double layer versions of their cycling specific jacket. I think it's called the Greenspot. I've got two and love them and they seem built to last forever. And they are great people to work with.

[Austin L]

I haven't had good luck with Patagonia jackets either, with two delaminating in the last 10 years. They replaced the first one for free, and told me that was a one time deal.

Tilak also makes some ventile jackets, I have one of their vests and like it a lot. 

Austin in Portland OR

[Sam McDermott]

Have you looked into Frog Toggs? A friend of mine says his jacket is the most waterproof thing he's ever owned, and he's worked on boats.

For biking specifically, I've been interested in the poncho https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KWRXSZR/ or the hi-viz jacket https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N0DXVW8/

There is a plastic-y layer in the middle, but my friend's, which I handled briefly, felt much less plastic-y than the typical outdoorsy ones I'm familiar with; this was more waxy than anything.

-Sam

[ascpgh]

Another vote for Hiltrek Ventile. It is a refreshing step away from polymer chemistry and forever chemicals. I appreciate much simpler and less costly care through the life cycle of the shells I use for my riding as well as the hand and sound of the shell being the quiet of cloth rather than the loud crunch and crinkle like Tyvek. 

I was averaging two years use from any shell I bought for my year round commuting before problems began. I have to cope with all the forms of wet and frozen precipitation, wide ranges of temperature and humidity. Tech shells with their less than permanent surface DWRs and waterproof/breathable membranes begin having compromises from body oils, some you can alleviate with care and treatment products on a regular schedule. Those oils corrupt the membrane pores for breathing and can wick water. As they oxidize (rancidify) to fatty acids they will promote delamination or flaking of coatings from their scrim. You've also got a UV issue over time that becomes problematic too.

Tech shells work best with high thermal and humidity gradients across their membranes. My more mundane place(s) of use have not provided for their peak magical functions to be as pronounced as marketed, instead they' were crinkly enclosures holding my sweat wetness for mid layers to manage, always making me wonder why I was so intensely managing wetness under an expensive "breathable" layer.

I had dinner at the bar of a restaurant in Ohiopyle at my overnight on GAP ride next to a guy who as a chemical engineer invented Glide dental floss and now spend lots of time kayaking the Youghiogheny River. He left the industrial valleys of WV (where he grew up) and the employ of DuPont over this concerns for the residuals of PFAS production before the NYT article and movie. It validated my recoil from tech shells and guilt over the material waste I created from all of those I'd been through to early ends before my Hiltrek shell. 

I'm a very happy owner and user of a Hiltrek Ventile anorak and will buy another whenever I need to replace this one. I am responsible for not purchasing four or five "tech" shells because of it.

My Hiltrek anorak, her GreenPoint jacket, on a rainy ride to Ohiopyle

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

On Monday, February 17, 2025 at 11:49:58 AM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

[Nick Shoemaker]

I was of a similar state of mind and ended up getting one of these Fjallravens on sale somewhere. Admittedly my usage thus far has not included riding, but it has been fine for standing around outside while the kids play in the rain :) Weight & packability are similar to the Marmot Precip it replaced. Think it can also be waxed for additional waterproofness (if, say, venturing beyond the playground...)

https://www.fjallraven.com/us/en-us/men/jackets/trekking-jackets/skogso-jacket-m/

On Sunday, February 16, 2025 at 6:14:54 PM UTC-5 iwdbu...@gmail.com wrote:

[Eamon Nordquist]

I just ordered a Hilltre Greenspot ventile jacket. It'll take 6-8 weeks before I get it, but I'm looking forward to a jacket that has a long lifespan and isn't made of plastic. It'll probably get here too late to see how well it works with the wet Seattle winter, but I'm optimistic.

Eamon

Seattle

[Jay Lonner]

A few years ago I bought a Hilltrek Kintail shirt featuring their “extra lightweight” Ventile, thinking that it would be good for 3-season use. Unfortunately I still find the fabric to be too heavy and clammy for my tastes. When I hiked the West Highland Way a few years ago I found that the locals hadn’t heard of Hilltrek and were instead a fan of another UK-based brand called Paramo. (Hilltrek actually carries Paramo at their sister website www.hillgear.scot.) Paramo uses PFAS-free fabrics that can be refreshed with Nikwax products. My wife and I each bought one of their jackets (actually she bought two) and have been very pleased with their performance. There’s an inevitable tradeoff between waterproofness and breathability, and having tried many different clothing brands and wonder fabrics over the decades I’ve found Paramo’s materials and designs to be an excellent match for conditions in the maritime PNW.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Feb 18, 2025, at 12:28 PM, Eamon Nordquist <eamonr...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just ordered a Hilltre Greenspot ventile jacket. It'll take 6-8 weeks before I get it, but I'm looking forward to a jacket that has a long lifespan and isn't made of plastic. It'll probably get here too late to see how well it works with the wet Seattle winter, but I'm optimistic.

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[Patrick Moore]

I hardly need technical waterproof clothing when we get a citywide average (more in east, less in west) of 9” per year, but I’ve been caught in winter SW down pours wearing a very thin Specialized cycling windbreaker (easily wads up small enough to fit into a jersey pocket) over 1 or 2 wool layers and I’ve been comfortable despite the rain or sleet; of course, our downpours tend to be very brief.

So my question is, would a very light windbreaker type of overlayer that blocks the wind and at least “resists” rain worn over a layer or 2 of good merino wool work in wetter climates?

This is academic curiosity as I have no plans to move to a wetter climate.

[John Bokman]

Jay, this is interesting. I own a Hilltrek garment. It's the double layer Ventile jacket Greenspot. I bought it with the intention of using it for my "everything" jacket. However, it is far too heavy to use on the bike. It does keep water out, but when saturated it becomes stiff as a board and even heavier. It is now my dog walking jacket. the biggest disappointment with the jacket, however, is the sleeve length. They are far too short for cycling. I carefully measured myself before purchase and even communicated with Hilltrek's owner about fitment. Still, the sleeves are too short. That's a tough pill to swallow when purchasing from across the pond. In sum: excellent fabric and quality of construction. Truly the jacket will last as long as I need it to. But fit can be problematic. I suggest anyone interested to really dig into the fit before ordering. Especially since they're all potentially bespoke at no extra cost (which is good because they're already expensive enough!).

However, let it be said I also own another Hilltrek product: a gilet (vest). It has proven to be really good for me. Great single ventile fabric, so lighter, and more flexible when saturated. It does very well as a windblock and does quite well as a water deterrent. In fact, while it does wet out after time, I much prefer the single ventile fabric.

Paramo: pray tell, which model do you use for biking? I know there are multitudes of opinions on Paramo, like everything else. After living in the PNW for 30 years, I've come to one conclusion: if it's truly wet, I will become wet, regardless. What's important is staying warm and comfortable while wet. I believe the inner layers (baselayer, wicking layer, insulating layers...) are more important, ultimately, than the "waterproof" layer.

John

Oregon

[Jay Lonner]

I have the Endurance separates, which is to say the shell and fleece. It’s what I bring bikepacking. I have long arms/torso and have no complaints about the fit, although it’s not cut like dedicated cycling gear. For daily commuting/utility I have a Shower’s Pass jacket, which is no help to the OP because s/he wants to avoid plastics/laminates. Honestly the Paramo stuff might not be suitable either, since it’s also made of synthetic materials. But it doesn’t rely on typical membranes or PFC-based treatments to function, so might be worth consideration. As much as I want to like Ventile products I haven’t found them to be breathable enough in humid conditions, so depending on locale would steer the OP away from it.

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Feb 21, 2025, at 10:44 AM, John Bokman <jpbc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Jay, this is interesting. I own a Hilltrek garment. It's the double layer Ventile jacket Greenspot. I bought it with the intention of using it for my "everything" jacket. However, it is far too heavy to use on the bike. It does keep water out, but when saturated it becomes stiff as a board and even heavier. It is now my dog walking jacket. the biggest disappointment with the jacket, however, is the sleeve length. They are far too short for cycling. I carefully measured myself before purchase and even communicated with Hilltrek's owner about fitment. Still, the sleeves are too short. That's a tough pill to swallow when purchasing from across the pond. In sum: excellent fabric and quality of construction. Truly the jacket will last as long as I need it to. But fit can be problematic. I suggest anyone interested to really dig into the fit before ordering. Especially since they're all potentially bespoke at no extra cost (which is good because they're already expensive enough!).

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3bb3932d-6128-42bb-8e24-3f78481ba46fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Conway Bennett]

I used to worked for Patagonia for 9 years.  They should be replacing that jacket, not offering a discount on a new one.  Their policy is repair, replace, or refund in no particular order.  Riding in the rain your either going to get wet from perspiration or precipitation, you choose.

[Garth]

Thanks for the explanation of the Patagonia jacket. I agree with Conway, the jacket should be replaced by Patagonia. I'd try the mother-mail-order-ship in Reno or wherever it is these days. Delamination/deterioration of the lining is not a wear or care issue. 

Nothing beats a synthetic rain jacket for packability and the ability to dry very quickly. As for the feel against the skin, that can vary greatly depending on the materials used. I have a Montbell rain jacket made with Infinium windstopper that is highly vapor permeable and durable rain repelling. They changed the fabric on the model I have but still use it in the Versalite jacket. The outer fabric on it is more glossy, while mine was matte, but the inside is the same matte feel to it. https://www.montbell.com/us/en/products/detail/2328169?fo=0&color=NV

I love that their site offers details in construction and actual garments measurements in the sizing chart popup(Scroll down for the finished garment mesurements). It's not designed for cycling but the sleeves are longer than average and I found them good enough for me of aver 6'2" frame. It's not by any means form fitting so there is some flapping and such at speed, but it's not something one hopes to be riding in all day, just to survive a shower. 

I have different jackets for road use though as I prefer the bias cuts of those. 

[Ian Buckley]

Thanks for all of the input everyone! I hadn't heard of the alternative brands suggested and I'll check them out.
At this point, I feel like this thread can transition into a general discussion of alternative rain gear, regardless of my original post.

[Bernard Duhon]

 I have been a poncho guy for short commutes and even long slog's in the rain 

 I used a Brooks vynle ponchono.but no longer  makes it.

 I found "the People's poncho"  chockablock full of useful features, including being waterproof. 

But does not pack down.

		030

 

 

 

 

 

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From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ian Buckley <iwdbu...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2025 4:26 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Share your alternative rain jacket suggestions

 

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[ascpgh]

I agree. The Patagonia retail employee's day was probably easier by giving that answer but it's not what the folks in Ventura would say or do. The reputation of a brand is in the hands of their dealers and try as they will to uphold their integrity, it ends up being the decision or utterance of the very last person in the retail chain who sets the tone of warranty support, which may have been a credible component of your original purchase. 

My shop sold Patagonia products and WE made every brands' warranty work for our customers, that was why they bought products and brands from us rather than other places or the internet. We did the calling, secured the RA, cleaned, packed, shipped and tracked the process for the customer. It's part of what they paid for when purchasing.

We were considered an important dealer by sales and support ethos. We participated in strategic planning and been to the Ventura office several times. I still have garments I bought back then that are useful and in rotation if not key pieces of my outdoor wear although I have an early H2No super light anorak and urban H2No rain jacket that are losing coating and need to be addressed. I will miss them when they go. 

Summer before last when I travelled back for the store's 50th anniversary party I was delayed in flight connections and landed with barely enough time to drive the last 150 miles to catch dinner at my favorite place over the decades. When crossing the street at a stop sign a car honked and the driver yelled at me, it was our Patagonia outside sales rep from back in the day, 25 years back, in town from Austin for the gathering.

We once had an unannounced visit by Peter Metcalf and another guy  from Black Diamond who were investigating to see if we were fronting internet diversion, which we weren't. They were surprised by our store, our location and the reputation we had forged with them and the wider industry. Had a great dinner on them after we closed for the day. They were sorry they had to presume the worst then. It was early in the internet sales days and they had a lot of integrity capital to protect.

Good companies/brands are hard to find and they are only as good as their products and support. It is tough to keep that quality through the retail ranks, down to the individual who becomes your gatekeeper to support for a product you bought from them or the brand. If you don't feel satisfied by an answer you get from them, don't demand the manager for a better response.  Just smile, say thanks, I'll think about it and call the customer service number yourself.  

I gave a worn out Synchilla 1/4 zip pullover to the local refuge placement organization when I got an unsatisfactory response by the local flagship store who only offered me the "responsible recycling" bin. I was happier with my directed donation of my well worn article and just buying  myself a new one. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh