Bike Makeover Thread

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover thread.

Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my favorite Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips and occasionally, saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in the Great Lakes State, and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of season. I was gifted a chestnut Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull it out and put it on the bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other Platypus, slapped them on and sent her a photo. 

“That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving me the unvarnished truth. 

I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally found these grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but didn’t have them up on the website yet. She had the exact match to my chestnut saddle and days later, I had these gorgeous stamped leather grips in hand. The bike looks positively tonal. The colors of the paint throw out so many different shades of pinks and reds, thanks to the abundant glitter in the metallic; adding rich leather accessories only elevates the look. The stamped designs on the leather give the bike some texture and add visual interest at the handlebar area. 

This Platypus is like a little autumn posey. Perfect and pretty, and wholly appointed to its duty.

Now if I can just convince Deb to make these in ivory, so I have a pair to match my ivory Rivet saddle when spring comes…

Attached in the next post are the before and afters.

Leah

[Leah Peterson]

Raspberry Platypus BEFORE:

AND After…

On Oct 11, 2023, at 9:53 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover thread.

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[Ryan]

the grips are smashing.but nitto needs to make a 26.8 lugged seatpost

for that lovely bike.just saying

[Hetchins52]

Wow -- those grips are amazing! Great find for the Platypus!
David (and I'm a vegetarian) Lipsky

Berkeley, CA

[Leah Peterson]

Ryan,

That seat post is butt ugly. The only ugly thing on the bike. I like the setback it offers, and there are zero other options for that. Zero. This bike is unimprovable, save this one thing: the seat tube should have been 27.2 so I would have some OPTIONS. It’s my one sorrow.

Leah

On Oct 11, 2023, at 10:54 PM, Ryan <ryte...@mts.net> wrote:

the grips are smashing.but nitto needs to make a 26.8 lugged seatpost

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/06a4b08b-ce21-4c71-b988-145c2f52115en%40googlegroups.com.

[Brian Turner]

Yeah, the whole 26.8 seat tube limitation has got to be one of the most frustrating things about this era of Rivendell. 

On Oct 12, 2023, at 6:43 AM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Johnny Alien]

Many here have said that its not a big deal to get a bike shop to ream it to 27.2 to allow for more seatpost options. I find it frustrating as well but slightly less so because I don't need the extra setback. 

[Leah Peterson]

I’ve had enough experiences with bike shops to be very hesitant to hand them my bike for a task that could ruin the frame. What happens if the hole is reamed too large? I can’t see that the frame would be salvageable. 

On Oct 12, 2023, at 9:10 AM, Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> wrote:

Many here have said that its not a big deal to get a bike shop to ream it to 27.2 to allow for more seatpost options. I find it frustrating as well but slightly less so because I don't need the extra setback. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8c98d636-bd04-4cf9-8f15-ce0d11311d8cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Johnny Alien]

I'm with you...the thought makes me way too nervous.

[Jacob Byard]

I used an adjustable reamer on my Gus. The affordable 27.2 reamer was out of stock and I couldn’t justify spending hundreds. I went slowly and used a 27.2 seatpost as my gauge. Once the post fit I stopped with the reamer. It was so simple and took about 10 minutes. My first time using a reamer too. I may not trust a bike shop to do it but if there’s a frame builder in your area they could easily handle it. 

Cheers,

Jacob 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 12, 2023, at 7:36 PM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8A2CFA04-040F-4C07-8FC2-9045F88D695C%40gmail.com.

[John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ]

Leah

Your changes look good.   What is the seatpost and the saddlebag you have??

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Leah Peterson]

Thanks, the seat post is the IRD Wayback post and the bag is Riv’s Saddlesack, the BagBoy.

On Oct 12, 2023, at 9:01 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Leah

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2f13feeb-79d9-431c-be98-742724456e3cn%40googlegroups.com.

[John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ]

Leah

I thought the seatpost looked like a Sakae LTE-100 type.    Not sure what problems you have making you consider reaming the seat tube, but that post has the most setback you can get.   If you need additional distance to the bars, you could try a 10mm longer stem.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Leah Peterson]

I don’t need more setback than what I have - I bought this post for its setback and it’s adequate. This one is ugly but it is the only choice for 26.8. 

Stem: I have the Nitto extra tall stem and you cannot get it longer than 100mm. So, if I want to use a pretty seat post, I can, but I’d need to pitch my tall stem and sacrifice height for reach. 

So, I’m keeping my favorite stem and buying myself setback with that ugly post. It’s the best option I can see at this point. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/46558ed1-ded0-400d-93cb-599d7c5a8d8en%40googlegroups.com.

[Ian A]

For what my opinion is worth, I rather like the seatpost. With the bag there, the seatpost doesn't draw attention and looks "right". However, custom seat posts are available, at not inconsiderable cost. Ti Cycles Fabrication (Portland) have some alluring options. Perhaps someone on this list knows of a custom maker who could create one from chromoly? Custom stems are available too. 

I would be very hesitant to ream the seat tube unless it was Rivendell approved. 

A fine looking bicycle indeed.

IanA Alberta Canada

[Joe Bernard]

Oooh, a custom titanium seatpost. That's whatcha need, Leah! 

[Johnny Alien]

I agree with Ian that it looks fine. That seatpost has massive amounts of setback and it looks like you are at the limit so even with 27.2 I don't think you will find a better looking seatpost with the amount of setback you have on this one. Even custom I think it would be tough to do it more elegantly. On a great looking bike like that no one is staring at the seatpost anyway. :)

[Roberta]

Your bike looks smashing--ready for all autumnal adventures.  Very rich looking.   Those grips are beautiful.

I think that bag does a good job camouflaging the less appealing seat post.

[Garth]

Leah, there are alternatives to the Technomic stem, I assume you have the regular/non-deluxe 280mm tall one in a 100mm extension, correct ? 

A combo of the Nitto quill stem adapter in the 225mm quill length in addition to a positive rise threadless stem, in this case a 120mm +/-17 degree one will will give the same height as a tall 280mm Technomic with a 100mm extension, plus an additional forward extension of 21mm. Same bar height, +21mm extension so you can use any normal setback seatpost and you don't have to be so far back, which is in itself a whole 'nother subject that I've discussed in the past. aka "going backward of the bottom bracket for more reach forward is going the wrong direction". Symptoms of being too far back include not being able to stay seated on climbs and/or needing lower gearing because you can't use your core muscles efficiently while seated uphill. If you can take your hands off the bars uphill and still pedal relatively effectively(not losing power), that's a sweet spot of effectiveness :) 

You may find however that in going forward you may want the bars slightly lower, don't be afraid to experiment ! 

The Nitto adapter is in stock at Alex's Cycle from Japan for $49, plus $23 shipping (if that's all you bought). Nitto makes a 120mm, +/-17d 25.4 bore stem, the NJ-89 I think it's called. You may be better off buying one with a larger bore + shim rather than a 25.4 in case you ever changed bars to a larger bore. If not just get the NJ-89. Alex's has that also. I have not seen a lower priced non-NJS Nitto stem in 25.4 bore with a +/-17degree rise/fall. 

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 1:02:49 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

[Bernard Duhon]

 

 

 

It is hard to tell from the picture but it looks like an IRD “Wayback” seatpost

I have one.  The grooves in the base & top piece stripped & caused the seat to tilt “way up”

Not terrible for the B17,  but not the angle I want.  I emailed Rivendell & Mark said IRD is replacing the defective ones & to send it back.

 

Good service & standing beside their product.

Raspberry Platypus BEFORE:

 

 

 

AND After…

 

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[danielle da cruz]

Leah, those grips! Wowowow. Truly stunning and worthy of a makeover post for sure! Thanks for sharing/inspiring!

Danielle

[Joe Bernard]

I love the new look. I also love the old look! Basically I just love that Raspberry Racing Platy ❤️❤️❤️

[JAS]

Leah, the new look is gorgeous!  Nice job coordinating the colors.  Now all you need is a 1UP hitch rack and the raspberry anodized accessory kit that matches your bike.   Link here   https://1up-usa.com/product/custom-anodized-kit  

RivSisters

--Joyce

[ascpgh]

The difficulty of less than common seat tube diameters was the indirect subject of another lister's, touched upon a bit ago from a different perspective: https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/ooTGF-OdSws/m/9T6WazuQAAAJ

Every bike is different but if feasible on your Platy, it can be done to permit something as nice as the Nitto S84.

Love Deb's "pre stock" grips for your Ergons. She's the best. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Ryan]

but I certainly understand Leah's reluctance to entrust this job to her local bikeshops

[John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ]

A Nitto S84 has at least 10mm LESS setback than the IRD Wayback (approx 40mm (S84) vs 50mm (IRD) per RBW site).   Leah pics shows the IRD to be full back.   So even if she could use a 27.2 post, the S84 does not have the setback she needs.

The real question is why didn't  RBW design the frame for a 27.2mm seat post????    Are they using a straight gauge seat tube vs a butted seat tube to save cost???  Or do they need a thicker wall for the lug in the middle of the seat tube??

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Eric Marth]

Leah, if only you could link up with a trustworthy board member-mechanic who could carefully ream the seat tube for her! I'm not sure who that would be 🤔 The S84 is the ultimate. 

I certainly understand your reluctance to have a local shop do this for you after the recent stories you shared! 

They're not super easy to find but the SR MTE-100 seatpost (that the IRD post you have is based on) comes in a 26.8 but looks only slightly better than your IRD, IMO. A saved eBay search would help. But I wouldn't think it's worth it for you to track one down considering the IRD is working for you. 

[Joseph Tousignant]

Leah, it seems to me the way to go is pick up a nice looking, reliable, and tough seatpost like a Thomson Elite setback seatpost like this one in 26.8mm diameter. They may make it is silver also but black is all I've ever used. On sale at $85.79 below, and I have NO involvement with the seller. :-)

https://carsoncitybikeshop.com/elite-setback-seatpost-26-8-x-330-black/?gclid=CjwKCAjw-KipBhBtEiwAWjgwrOEHZqApBkZKdn3D8viyVSNzW4l2v3b2_LQiouI1t01nVaoRtJVwFBoCPWYQAvD_BwE

[Leah Peterson]

John, 

My seatpost actually has setback to 50. I have my saddle at 42 or 43. Now that I have these new grips, I could try the old seat post. The new grips sit further up the bars and I have more reach now. The feeling of being cramped was fairly slight, and I could often ignore it, but it was one of those little niggling details I wanted improved. Some people would have chopped their Billie Bars - not me! I need allllll that real estate so keep 1000 things on my bars!

Eric, I know. I have had this exact thought. Bill Lindsay - I would trust you to do it! And I would drive to your part of Michigan if you had the tool to make it happen! No pressure or anything. 😬

Joseph! Oh why bother getting it in silver? Such a magnificent seat post deserves to be a focal point: I should just go with the black. 🙃

Joyce, there’s a woman in product design over at 1 Up, I see! I love my RivSisters; they don’t want me to miss out on any of the best stuff.

Leah

On Oct 14, 2023, at 4:48 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

A Nitto S84 has at least 10mm LESS setback than the IRD Wayback (approx 40mm (S84) vs 50mm (IRD) per RBW site).   Leah pics shows the IRD to be full back.   So even if she could use a 27.2 post, the S84 does not have the setback she needs.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1d683633-23e9-4b3d-b0e3-214beb3bcf4fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Garth]

What's being glossed over here in all the talk of mega-setback posts is that Leah has expressed in the past that the only reason she resorted to such a post was for more reach to the bars because she wasn't aware of any other way to get the bar height equal to the Technomic 280mm quill stem(it only comes in a max 100mm extension). As I described in an earlier post, a combination of the Long/Tall Nitto quill adapter plus a positive ride threadless stem can offer the same height plus more forward extension as such stems are available up to 140mm. It's a matter of simple geometry. 

Not only does she not need to be that fat back of the bottom bracket, it makes for a less efficient use one's inherent power. (There are some people with proportionally long femurs who may want more set back if too far forward, but that isn't common and isn't Leah here). I remember Leah's Betty Foy where she had a regular setback post and the reach forward she wanted. The Betty seat tube angle is 72d, while the Platy has an even more shallow 71.5. That geometry difference alone accounts for about 6-7mm more setback, relative to the center BB. She obviously doesn't need even more setback. I also recall Leah in her riding stories how she tended to stand while climbing. What does that do ?  It places you more forward into the "sweet spot" of utilizing the core(strongest) muscles. It's literally like dancing on the pedals, "light on your feet" kind of feeling, where you feel perfectly balanced over the bb where you're strongest. Here it's easy to bend up and down and all around. Being too far back or forward you just can't dance and you're off-center balance. Try it for yourself. That same balancing point can be experienced while seated by moving your body forward relative to the center BB. Where exactly that is varies for everyone, so do experiment. 

If the proper center point and relative reach forward reach isn't achievable on a given frame then that frame is not a good fit to begin with no matter how pretty it may be. Having wayback bars and shallow head tube angles on Riv's doesn't help any as you have converging seat and head angles, the more you raise the bars the closer they get, dramatically. Bike fitting isn't mysterious or difficult and it certainly doesn't help to just ignore it and pretend it doesn't matter. Have some fun with it if you will !  

Once she gets into a better position she won't have to lament over how and who can enlarge the seat tube as she already has a regular 26.8 post. I can't recall if it's a Nitto or Kalloy but if it slips there are ways of adding grip-tion to the part that slips. 

It's a nice day for a ride :)

[Joseph Tousignant]

   Well Garth, if she decides she doesn't need the setback after all with those  handlebarsbars, there is always the Thompson Elite straight seatpost in 26.8 x 330 in BLACK below,  also listed on sale at $85.79  :-)

https://carsoncitybikeshop.com/elite-seatpost-26-8-x-330mm-black/

 A bit of nostalgia for me,... I believe the (4) 1987 Schwinn Cimarron early mountain bike frames in red I've accumulated over the decades in various sizes all also use a 26.8 mm seat post. My FIRST serious bike at age 31 was a MUCH too small red 1987 Cimarron, but it was the only one Rudy's Bikeshop (retired and long gone ) in North Troy NY had in stock at the time,... AND I had money to burn! :-)   

  With a rear rack and a nylon set of panniers, it cost about $700 with tax back in 1987!   It hurt making about maybe $80 a week, but I still have that bike, and looked for larger 1987 red frames on the bay at reasonable prices,... and I also use one of those occasionally "just because" I learned a VERY important physics lesson with it. 

Not a week after buying it, I popped a wheelie in a parking lot and discovered that you MUST not land with the handlebars turned! I also learned I could FLY at the same time... :-)  hehe

 Possibly the 26.8 tube size was looked at as a bit stronger for early MTB use back then, and I'm not sure if the Chromoly steel was thicker or not , but ALL have never had an issue other than lack of choice in the current and many decade long 27.2 mm diameter frame seat tube popularity.

Cheers,

Joe T

[John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ]

Leah

I believe the ACTUAL Set Back (SB) of the IRD Wayback is 2cm MORE Than the Indication.   This is based on measurements I made using a Sakae MTE-100 adjustable setback seat post on a workbench with the seatpost at a 73° to the horizontal, which mimics the actual angel it is on a 'nominal' frame, and results in the seatpost clamp being horizontal.  The IRD is based on the Sakae MTE-100 design 

You stated you are currently at 42 to 43 SB (the units are mm), which would be an Actual SB of 6.2 to 6.3 cm.   This increased SB  is like a seat tube angel which 3.5° less than what you have.  As Garth pointed out, the Platy STA is 71.5°, so your effective STA with your current SB is 68°.

Most seatposts have setbacks of 2.0 to 3.0cm, so you are about 3.0 to 4.0 cm further setback.   Your new grips would have to be 3 to 4 cm further up the bars than the old, in order to have a seat post SB of 2 to 3 cm, the range of a normal seat post.

Alternately, cutting the bars by 2cm may be enough, with the new grips, to reduce your SB to 2 to 3 cm for a normal seatpost and also move you to a more 'normal' position.   A 2cm shorter bar may not decrease your real estate in the areas that matter.

Otherwise, The IRD Wayback looks good on your Platy and looks even better when you consider "Form is following Function'

Also, as you pointed out earlier, your Platy frame seems to be 'short'.  The SB you are using indicates the frame needs a 3 to 4cm longer effective top tube length, to reduce the SB to a 'normal' range.   Do you have similar SBs on your other RBW frames???

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Joe Bernard]

Reflecting on all the setback talk, I do think the reach may be inherently a tad short for the rider in question. I'm the same height as Leah - possibly even shorter, I'm aging and shrinking! - and Grant designed my Rivendell with a 54.2 ST, 63 ETT to work with Boscos up way high. It's perfect. 

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

[Leah Peterson]

What’s weird is that I sized up! My PBH would technically fit the 50!

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 15, 2023, at 12:55 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Reflecting on all the setback talk, I do think the reach may be inherently a tad short for the rider in question. I'm the same height as Leah - possibly even shorter, I'm aging and shrinking! - and Grant designed my Rivendell with a 54.2 ST, 63 ETT to work with Boscos up way high. It's perfect. 

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[Roberta]

I've had a few emails with other RivSisters who own Platys and there are quite a few of us who've commented on having to push one's saddle back as far as the rails could take it.  

I'm on a 55 Platy with 83cm pbh--one or two more than Leah AND I like my saddle high-- and would probably like mine back a touch more, but I'm unwilling to buy a new seat post.  My stem is one of the Nitto extra tall ones with 10 cm, the longest they make for the extra high model.  I ended up cutting ("the horror") 1 cm off my Billie Bars.  Her saddle/seatpost would be shorter than mine, closer to the handlebars, right?, so she might feel it more.

[John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ]

Leah you stated " What’s weird is that I sized up! My PBH would technically fit the 50!"

From the pictures you posted, your seatpost is almost fully inserted in the seat tube.  This indicates the frame is the LARGEST frame for your PBH.

However, your need for a LONG reach indicates you need a frame larger than your PBH allows.

The RBW geo tables show the Following Effective top tube lengths for the Platy (all in cm)

Frame       Effective TTL

50                  59

55                  61.5

60                  66.5

So even a 55cm frame only gives you 2.5cm more reach ( Eff TTL (55)  -  Eff TTL (50) ), which is not enough get you to a normal seat post SB of 2 to 3 cm.   A 60cm frame gives toy 7.5cm more reach, allowing a 2/3cm SB seat post and also recuing the stem to 7 to 8cm.

If you are using 175mm cranks, you could buy 5mm by using 170mm cranks, allowing you to raise the saddle 5mm and lower the bars 5mm.  But that seems like a drop in the bucket.

Like I said, the Wayback seat post is nice since it shows "Form is following Function"

An alternative is bar which does not come back as far as the Billie bar (8.25" per RBW & a key point, 2" (5cm) longer than an Alba)).  This allows the saddle to move forward on the seatpost.   Alternately, cut the Billie bar 2cm to shorten it and see if it improves.

You could also push the saddle as far forward in the seatpost clamp to move the saddle forward (you probably did this already)

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ]

Roberta

Pushing the saddle BACK to the back of the clamp, moves the saddle FORWARD the maximum amount.  This indicates the saddle to bar distance is too long and your needed to reduce the reach.   Maybe you pushed it too far forward, most Brooks have only 20 to 30mm of total fore/aft motion..  

Did you cut 1cm off the bars after pushing forward the max amount??.   Cutting the bars indicate the saddle to bar distance is too short, the opposite of your original action (push saddle forward).   The 1 cm cut is within the range of Brooks adjustability.

But if you ended in a good position, then all is good in life.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Roberta]

Thanks, John.

I must have said it wrong.  I moved my saddle AWAY from the bars, towards the rear end of my bike.  I think that's called aft (I had to look it up).  the bars were still too close, so I cut off 1cm (after a year of trying to feel OK).  If the stem had come in an 11cm, I would have just done that. 

I ended in a good position, so like you said " then all is good in life."

Roberta

[Joe Bernard]

Moving the saddle back moves it further away from the bars, you were correct. 

[John Hawrylak]

Ok, I understand

Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.

Then, You cut 1 cm from the bars.  This increased the saddle to bar distance, indicating the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT, but is OK now.

So you ended up increasing the saddle to bar distance 3.5 cm to get to an Acceptable position..

I think the Alba bar would be better based on this from the RBW write up on the Billie:

'The Billie straight grip section is 2" (5 cm) longer than an Alba."

 So an Alba with a 10cm stem would have a saddle to bar distance 1.5cm longer (5 - 3.5) than what you ended up.

Replace the 10 cm stem with a 9cm and you are within 0.5cm (5mm) of where you are at.  A 8cm stem would also work, just 5mm on the other side.  A 8.5cm would be mathematically correct, but the 5mm either way probably cant be felt..

Leah is also in a too short condition, excess seatpost SB and max length stem..   The extra 5cm of straight grip length of the Billie contributes to the 'shortness' by having the LONG straight grip section.   The fact that other Riv sisters had the same problem and they used Billie bars, indicate the Billie bar is the common problem.

RBW supplies the Platy built up in Taiwan with a Tosco bar which has a sweep back about the same a s a Billie.  So they seem to supply Platy's as too short due t9 the bar sweep back.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

 

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7db68c7f-d35f-49b8-9ebd-be9e3ac3f547n%40googlegroups.com

.

[Max S]

Before & after for my honey's bikie...  This Yves Gomez was advertised in "as new" condition, which was a fine claim, except it turned out to not be remotely true. All the components were heavily worn / unusable, and everything associated with the drivetrain (and front wheel) had to be replaced. I converted it into an easy 1x1 with a front basket. It got only a few miles in that state, partly because the frame got gouged quite severely in shipping. (Some of you may recall my quest for the "mustard Clem" color code...) I sent the bike to Jack Trumbull of Franklin Frame for repair and repaint, after which, I rebuilt it. Now it's been suped up with a nice seat, grips, fancy crank, other nice components, custom Riv bags, and metal fenders.

- Max

[George Schick]

I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used to it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus others in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the highest gear or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as much in previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes the saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using the leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to riding.

Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 2¢.

[Leah Peterson]

George, lol, that IS what I do. And I never knew there was really any other way! I dislike the feeling of spinning. It feels wobbly and out of control. So I don’t - I just leave it in the “hard” gear. BUT, I do shift to an easier one at stop signs now. My knees were killing me tryng to race up to speed from a dead stop and I didn’t want to hold up the riders behind me. But you are probably right about my riding style. Huh. I never thought about it.

Max - hearts are coming out of my eyes looking at the yellow bike!!!!!! What a lucky woman is yours!!!!!!

On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:03 PM, George Schick <bhi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used to it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus others in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the highest gear or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as much in previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes the saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using the leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to riding.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f6d3960f-bde2-4542-9453-a32b46f975e7n%40googlegroups.com.

[John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ]

Curious if Leah has her other Rivendells set up the same way.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Leah Peterson]

I have the mermaid Platy:

This one has a Brooks. I know it sounds crazy but this bike feels perfect to me and I believe it to be because the Brooks rails are a little longer and allow for just enough setback. Either that or the Billie Bars are somehow not made to spec and don’t come back as far. That’s my layperson crumby understanding. But that bike fits great.

The Clem:

I rode it last night and decided I hate how it feels. Bars too close, too bolt upright. This is the fault of club riding where I now like leaning forward more. But I rarely ride this bike so it won’t get any new parts. Poor thing.

On Oct 15, 2023, at 6:36 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/72ff3963-e06e-406e-9495-20b1cb6d92bdn%40googlegroups.com.

[George Schick]

It kinda reminds me of a Star Trek episode in the first of the TV 60's series of the show entitled "A Taste of Armageddon" where the Enterprise has sent a landing party down to a planet that observes "theoretical warfare" against another planet in their solar system:

• Spock : [after hearing Anan 7 explain their system of computerized warfare]  There is a certain scientific logic about it.

  Anan 7 : I'm glad you approve.

  Spock : I do *not* approve. I *understand*.

• Ergo, I understand, but I do not necessarily approve of your method of pedaling.  Seems to me like, when you have to stand up on a hill, it's like you're carrying two heavy bags of groceries up the stairs to a 4-story walk-up apartment, stomping on each step as you go, suffering.

• Whereas, those who ride road bikes with drop bars lean forward on the grips of their handbrakes and stand on up on their pedals in a smooth back and forth motion like "dancing" (I really like Garth's analogy about that!) moving their body weight forward while gripping on the brake lever covers of their drop bars so they can easily shift their weight from side to side while climbing.

• 'Course, there are also those who zoom up those slopes while seated, spinning their pedals at very high cadences, but I always assume they've been regulars at gym spin classes.

[George Schick]

Also Leah, ever study the difference between slow twitch (weight work out) muscles vs. fast twitch (running, fast cadence) muscles during your medical education?  There's a big, big difference between the function of these two and their applicability to cycling.

[Patrick Moore]

I rarely agree with Leah (*) but I am one old-school rider who also likes his saddle slammed back and his gears high, and I blame Grant. I used to be a spinner -- would maintain 20-22 mph over distance in a 64" gear, back when I was a pimpled 40-something -- until I started ordering bikes from Rivendelll and complained that I felt as if I was "losing power at the top of the pedal stroke," particularly when torquing up hills or into winds. (There were also handling problems from my, then, habit of riding seat-forward, bar-forward-and-down.) Grant said: Move bar up and back and move saddle back and down, and so I did. Much better for climbing, but it also made me into a masher, this probably helped by age.

On Riv frames with 73* stas, I used to use a rubber mallet to get my Flites as far back on my favorite, fairly setback, DA 7410 seatposts.

I don't do this any longer -- I've moved my first edition Flites forward by about 5 mm -- But I have to say, I have no desire to go back to that forward riding position.

(*) Kidding, of course, and I daresay Leah could hardly care less. Saddle position apart, Leah, that's a pretty bike, tho' I recommend grips to match the saddle.

Patrick "over and out" Moore

[John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ]

Leah stated concerning her Mermaid Platy:  " This one has a Brooks. I know it sounds crazy but this bike feels perfect to me and I believe it to be because the Brooks rails are a little longer and allow for just enough setback. "

My Comment: Brooks B17s are notorious for their rails having a short adjustment length.  I measured 2.1 to 3.0 cm depending on how much you force the saddle fore and aft in the clamp.

The Mermaid looks like a 'normal' setup form that type of frame.   There seems to be more seatpost showing the=an on the Raspberry Platy.

The Raspberry Platy seems more stretched out, which George has diagnosed in his replies

Leah, if you think the Billie bars on the Mermaid are different than the Billie bars on the Raspberry., just place the 2 side by side, line up the bars and visually compare the 2.  Any differences should be apparent.  If NO differences are observed they are probably the same.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Patrick Moore]

George: Physiologies and psychologies differ considerably among riders. Me, I like standing and torquing up hills; I used to do this when climbing a local 7-mile hill on a 70" or 75" fixed gear: stand for half-a-mile-to-a-full-mile, sit for 30 seconds and strain your knees while  resting your lungs, then repeat. Even now in my decripit old age, I still prefer to torque at slow r's pm than to get breathless spinning a no-resistance gear. 

Neither is "better" for us recreational riders, as far as I can tell.

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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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With words that made them known.

[Leah Peterson]

I’m nearly sure Rivet Sonora is 10mm shorter rails than Brooks. I think that could account for the difference.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 15, 2023, at 7:03 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Leah stated concerning her Mermaid Platy:  " This one has a Brooks. I know it sounds crazy but this bike feels perfect to me and I believe it to be because the Brooks rails are a little longer and allow for just enough setback. "

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b42a8829-efaf-4bc5-ae48-1f1d9222b064n%40googlegroups.com.

[Patrick Moore]

One more remark. About 20 years ago when I was in my youthful late 40s I happened across a retired man who'd set up a sort of casual bike museum here in ABQ; can't remember his name or the location, but he had all sorts of nice old school road bikes; was it he or was it Dick "Call me Mister" Hallet of erstwhile local World Champion Bicycles who had an actual Reg Harris track bike on display?

At any rate, this man, probably then younger than I am now, but at least early 60s, was a short, slight fellow; perfect spinner type, you'd say. Nope, he had a 56T outer ring on his bike, IIRC, and when I remarked on it he told us with enthusiasm that he liked torquing that monster over at low r's pm.

[Roberta]

Beautiful.  She has basically. New bike. Love the cream head tube and the filled in hearts. 

[George Schick]

Well Patrick, I can only say that I beckon back to a TV broadcast of a professional bowling tournament in the early 70's where one of the contestants was delivering the ball to the lane with his left leg ending up in a more or less vertical stance.  When the play-by-play announcer asked the "color announcer" (a former professional bowler) about that kind of delivery, the former professional bowler said, "...his youth allows him to get away with it..."  Sure enough, that bowler was never again seen on the bowling circuit again.

And so it is with this pedaling and seat-back business under discussion here:  One's youth might allow one to get away with muscling into fast road riding, steep climbs, etc. at a strong rate, but it's not likely to last much into one's older years.

[John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ]

Leah, perhaps the Brooks on the Mermaid is setback 10mm more than the Rivet on the Raspberry.   However, the Raspberry seatpost SB is 42mm with 0 on the IRD scale corresponding to an actual 20mm.  The Mermaid has a 'standard' looking seatpost, most likely with 20mm SB.  The 10mm in saddle position is only 25% of the 42mm in seatpost seatback.    So you are still much further back on the Rapsberry than on the Mermaid.

A simple measurement could help determine if the setbacks are the same or different.   If the 2 bikes have the SAME stem length and bars and the bars are set to the same height, then measuring the distance from the center of the stem quill bolt to the back of the saddle (or to where your sit bones indention is) should reveal if both are setback the same or if there is a difference, it would quantify it.

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

[Garth]

Leah, you feel "wobbly" because you're too far back relative to the bottom bracket. Hence, you "mash" because that position leaves you no choice. It's not "just your style", it's what that setup allows for. For fun, sit in a chair, extend your legs so that your calves are 90 degrees relative to your thighs. Now try mimicking pedaling, or try to stand up. You wobble trying to pedal and your strain to get up. Now scoot your feet towards you, say 45 degrees, so you feel you can literally lift off out of the chair(and you can). It's no different than doing a squat, there is a sweet spot of balance and power in doing that. If you're too far back you cant use your muscles effectively as you're imbalanced. Bikes are no different in that way.

I wish you'd hop on someone's road bike and could experience what it's like being much more forward over the BB with a narrower saddle and having your hips unencumbered, that's really the best way to experience an "ahaa !" moment of getting it. It's a night and day difference from where you are. Actually I do think your Platy would fit you better with drop bars as once you're centered over the BB you'll have no problem dialing in the bar height and reach without resorting to extremes.

In reference to George's comments, no flames here !  We're here to discuss stuff, you know ?

Sitting and spinning uphill effectively and efficiently(regardless of the rpm's) for my experience is a matter of positioning and having the proper fitting of cranks that suit the rider. I've gone from being too far back and having to stand the whole time to get me over the BB, to being able to pedal seated the whole time by changing saddles and moving it forward by at 30mm+ so far and going back to low positioned drop bars, about 2-1/2-3 inches below saddle height. Sometimes I feel like a baby goat you see in those videos hoping up and down on the ground legs flailing because my legs are so free to literally bounce up and down with such ease. it really is marvelous. I can't believe I used to ride so far back and how inefficient it was. While yes I can spin on lesser grades now, on steeper grades the rpm's will slow, but still, even at a low rpm I'm doing it effectively and efficiently, unlike before being too far back. When I say efficient and effect, I mean that I can do repeated efforts and they don't wear me down like they formerly did during a ride. Day to day I never have any lingering soreness now either, even after very hilly rides that formerly wiped me out the next day.

[Patrick Moore]

But I'm 68 ("and a half," as small children like to insist) ....?

Patrick "thy youth shall be renewed like the eagle's" Moore

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d649e7c7-e78a-46c1-85ee-7f7b0ae41d39n%40googlegroups.com.

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Here’s my contribution for most recent bike makeover from late summer (now nice and muddy from its last excursion when this picture was captured.)  This was previously my front basket equipped errand runner.  I ended up changing to the low rider rack and bags earlier than in the year while doing some stem and saddle swaps to allow easier fine tuning before reinstalling the bar brackets.  The rack was available while already removed from another bike also undergoing some minor changes.  Despite being intended as a temporary rack and basket trade between frames I decided to stick with it once I had them mounted and enjoyed the new and lighter build on this bike.

I’ve had the pink gravelking SK tires and bartape in waiting but with no particular build planned.  The once bright red anodized chainring guard now faded to a pinkish hue I decided it was time to replace the mismatched blackwall tires and add more color to complement the guard in its current shade now with the other components somewhat solidified.  Only a few weeks and a handful of rides on this Lizard Skinz tape, however, it has worn so rapidly on the outer layer to already look like it needs replacing from months of hard use so will see how quickly it wears further from here.

A spare set of wheels are also now shod with purple Gravelking SS for a more road oriented option though I mixed up the slightly different gearing between wheels and still need to swap the tires or cogs/freewheels to better match the gears and tread with terrain.

I have unfortunately not been getting in nearly as much riding as I’d like between work and family commitments but with four complete bikes now in rotation with different builds I’ve otherwise been somewhat consistent with at least alternating them.  A new personal goal is to try and ride each at least once per week more frequently, even if just for a quick 30min loop.  The more I ride, though, the more I tend to want to tweak things here or there and do more make-overs!

Brian Cole

On Wednesday, October 11, 2023, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover thread.

Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my favorite Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips and occasionally, saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in the Great Lakes State, and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of season. I was gifted a chestnut Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull it out and put it on the bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other Platypus, slapped them on and sent her a photo. 

“That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving me the unvarnished truth. 

I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally found these grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but didn’t have them up on the website yet. She had the exact match to my chestnut saddle and days later, I had these gorgeous stamped leather grips in hand. The bike looks positively tonal. The colors of the paint throw out so many different shades of pinks and reds, thanks to the abundant glitter in the metallic; adding rich leather accessories only elevates the look. The stamped designs on the leather give the bike some texture and add visual interest at the handlebar area. 

This Platypus is like a little autumn posey. Perfect and pretty, and wholly appointed to its duty.

Now if I can just convince Deb to make these in ivory, so I have a pair to match my ivory Rivet saddle when spring comes…

Attached in the next post are the before and afters.

Leah

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[Leah Peterson]

I love the pink. I wish I had known how much the rose anodized parts I had would fade. They are nearly silver now. I should have put red chainring guard/spacers/brake levers instead of rose! I did not know Gravel King came in pink. What a resource you are! You’re as good as a RivSister, Brian!

On Oct 15, 2023, at 9:48 PM, Coal Bee Rye Anne <lionsrug...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here’s my contribution for most recent bike makeover from late summer (now nice and muddy from its last excursion when this picture was captured.)  This was previously my front basket equipped errand runner.  I ended up changing to the low rider rack and bags earlier than in the year while doing some stem and saddle swaps to allow easier fine tuning before reinstalling the bar brackets.  The rack was available while already removed from another bike also undergoing some minor changes.  Despite being intended as a temporary rack and basket trade between frames I decided to stick with it once I had them mounted and enjoyed the new and lighter build on this bike.

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<IMG_4470.jpeg>

[Sarah Carlson]

Love the fall accessory swap out! I have zero comments about your seatpost setback because I am so captivated by those new autumnal grips. Did you even ask for input about your riding position because I don't recall seeing that in your makeover post....

Pink Gravel King tires? YES PLEASE!!!!!!

On Monday, October 16, 2023 at 2:24:42 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

I love the pink. I wish I had known how much the rose anodized parts I had would fade. They are nearly silver now. I should have put red chainring guard/spacers/brake levers instead of rose! I did not know Gravel King came in pink. What a resource you are! You’re as good as a RivSister, Brian!

On Oct 15, 2023, at 9:48 PM, Coal Bee Rye Anne <lionsrug...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here’s my contribution for most recent bike makeover from late summer (now nice and muddy from its last excursion when this picture was captured.)  This was previously my front basket equipped errand runner.  I ended up changing to the low rider rack and bags earlier than in the year while doing some stem and saddle swaps to allow easier fine tuning before reinstalling the bar brackets.  The rack was available while already removed from another bike also undergoing some minor changes.  Despite being intended as a temporary rack and basket trade between frames I decided to stick with it once I had them mounted and enjoyed the new and lighter build on this bike.

I’ve had the pink gravelking SK tires and bartape in waiting but with no particular build planned.  The once bright red anodized chainring guard now faded to a pinkish hue I decided it was time to replace the mismatched blackwall tires and add more color to complement the guard in its current shade now with the other components somewhat solidified.  Only a few weeks and a handful of rides on this Lizard Skinz tape, however, it has worn so rapidly on the outer layer to already look like it needs replacing from months of hard use so will see how quickly it wears further from here.

A spare set of wheels are also now shod with purple Gravelking SS for a more road oriented option though I mixed up the slightly different gearing between wheels and still need to swap the tires or cogs/freewheels to better match the gears and tread with terrain.

I have unfortunately not been getting in nearly as much riding as I’d like between work and family commitments but with four complete bikes now in rotation with different builds I’ve otherwise been somewhat consistent with at least alternating them.  A new personal goal is to try and ride each at least once per week more frequently, even if just for a quick 30min loop.  The more I ride, though, the more I tend to want to tweak things here or there and do more make-overs!

Brian Cole

On Wednesday, October 11, 2023, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover thread.

Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my favorite Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips and occasionally, saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in the Great Lakes State, and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of season. I was gifted a chestnut Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull it out and put it on the bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other Platypus, slapped them on and sent her a photo. 

“That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving me the unvarnished truth. 

I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally found these grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but didn’t have them up on the website yet. She had the exact match to my chestnut saddle and days later, I had these gorgeous stamped leather grips in hand. The bike looks positively tonal. The colors of the paint throw out so many different shades of pinks and reds, thanks to the abundant glitter in the metallic; adding rich leather accessories only elevates the look. The stamped designs on the leather give the bike some texture and add visual interest at the handlebar area. 

This Platypus is like a little autumn posey. Perfect and pretty, and wholly appointed to its duty.

Now if I can just convince Deb to make these in ivory, so I have a pair to match my ivory Rivet saddle when spring comes…

Attached in the next post are the before and afters.

Leah

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[Slin]

Leah - 

For you Clem you might be able to lower your stem a few inches to try to fit it to your new preference. 

Btw, were any of your bikes fit and set up by Analog Cycles? Just curious if this is the ‘enlightened fit’ style. 

Slin

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Thanks for the kind words, Leah!  Great find with the Rivet matching grips and like Joe said, the Racing Platy just looks great with either attire, but of course even more autumnal now with those chestnut touches.

Max - the yellow Yves Gomez looks terrific with the makeover and glad it all worked out in the end despite the unfortunate turn with the 'as new' claim.

The pink Gravelkings were one of their annual color specials from a previous year.  I forget which year these colors were specifically released but stumbled upon them online somewhere even after they were discontinued.  I'm sure there are still some out there to be found but the limited colors I believe are also always limited in model/size even with the initial release.  I'm currently using 700x32 SK and SS models.

I think this was the online retailer I had found the discontinued pink and here is another previous limited color in the same 32mm size:

https://planetcyclery.com/components/wheels-tires-tubes/tires/panaracer-gravelking-sk-tire-700-x-32-tubeless-folding-astral-blue

This year's colors were turquoise and orange and looks like they did make them up to 700x43 in the SS and SK this time around though only a few size/color combos still seem to remain:

https://www.panaracerusa.com/collections/gravel

[Dorothy C]

Sarah asks “Did you even ask for input about your riding position?” No, poor Leah is getting bikesplained again. Lovely colors, Leah, and I hope Deb takes up your suggestion to make them in ivory as well. 

[Joe Bernard]

MEN. Even I eventually chimed in and I know better! 🤦

Joe "realized as soon as I hit Send that this was a bad idea" Bernard 

[Doug H.]

I have been on a bicycle hiatus for about three weeks but decided to check the group tonight. Wow, what a discussion! Your bike mods look fabulous Leah. I like the color changes. Can I say now that I did not like the previous saddle color? At least not as much as the new one. Fun reading folks.

Doug

[Leah Peterson]

Doug, you can say it until springtime when I change it BACK. And then you will declare you have had a change of heart and that you love the ivory saddle and thank goodness I came to my senses and brought it back! 🤣

On Oct 16, 2023, at 8:55 PM, Doug H. <dhansf...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have been on a bicycle hiatus for about three weeks but decided to check the group tonight. Wow, what a discussion! Your bike mods look fabulous Leah. I like the color changes. Can I say now that I did not like the previous saddle color? At least not as much as the new one. Fun reading folks.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5501879f-483c-43b2-85ea-7370d616062bn%40googlegroups.com.

[Doug H.]

Oops, I did it again...

Doug

[Joe Bernard]

I like them both equally cuz what am I, STUPID?? Don't answer that! 

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Before and after, and I got my cast off!!

-Kai

[Bill Lindsay]

A few days ago Leah said: " Bill Lindsay - I would trust you to do it! And I would drive to your part of Michigan if you had the tool to make it happen! No pressure or anything. 😬"

I spend one week every month in Michigan but I live in a hotel room.  I do not typically carry an adjustable seat tube reamer in my carry on luggage.  :)  I also do not own an adjustable seat tube reamer, even though I am plenty comfortable and experienced with its use*.  If I needed that service performed, I'd pay one of the local old timers, who I know have the tool and know how to use it.  

*While I'm experienced with its use, I do not recall ever deliberately reaming out a 26.8mm seat tube to 27.2.  It's always been in the initial frame prep step, or a repair step.  I don't doubt that it can be done.  I just don't have a good feel for how long it should take.  Like if it's a 2 hour job, and a tradesperson quoted you $160 for two hours of (strenuous) labor, would you want to do it?  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:02:54 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

John, 

My seatpost actually has setback to 50. I have my saddle at 42 or 43. Now that I have these new grips, I could try the old seat post. The new grips sit further up the bars and I have more reach now. The feeling of being cramped was fairly slight, and I could often ignore it, but it was one of those little niggling details I wanted improved. Some people would have chopped their Billie Bars - not me! I need allllll that real estate so keep 1000 things on my bars!

Eric, I know. I have had this exact thought. Bill Lindsay - I would trust you to do it! And I would drive to your part of Michigan if you had the tool to make it happen! No pressure or anything. 😬

Joseph! Oh why bother getting it in silver? Such a magnificent seat post deserves to be a focal point: I should just go with the black. 🙃

Joyce, there’s a woman in product design over at 1 Up, I see! I love my RivSisters; they don’t want me to miss out on any of the best stuff.

Leah

On Oct 14, 2023, at 4:48 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

A Nitto S84 has at least 10mm LESS setback than the IRD Wayback (approx 40mm (S84) vs 50mm (IRD) per RBW site).   Leah pics shows the IRD to be full back.   So even if she could use a 27.2 post, the S84 does not have the setback she needs.

The real question is why didn't  RBW design the frame for a 27.2mm seat post????    Are they using a straight gauge seat tube vs a butted seat tube to save cost???  Or do they need a thicker wall for the lug in the middle of the seat tube??

John Hawrylak

Woodstown NJ

On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 7:28:07 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:

The difficulty of less than common seat tube diameters was the indirect subject of another lister's, touched upon a bit ago from a different perspective: https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/ooTGF-OdSws/m/9T6WazuQAAAJ

Every bike is different but if feasible on your Platy, it can be done to permit something as nice as the Nitto S84.

Love Deb's "pre stock" grips for your Ergons. She's the best. 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 7:36:47 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

I’ve had enough experiences with bike shops to be very hesitant to hand them my bike for a task that could ruin the frame. What happens if the hole is reamed too large? I can’t see that the frame would be salvageable. 

On Oct 12, 2023, at 9:10 AM, Johnny Alien <johnny....@gmail.com> wrote:

Many here have said that its not a big deal to get a bike shop to ream it to 27.2 to allow for more seatpost options. I find it frustrating as well but slightly less so because I don't need the extra setback. 

On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 7:39:10 AM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

Yeah, the whole 26.8 seat tube limitation has got to be one of the most frustrating things about this era of Rivendell. 

On Oct 12, 2023, at 6:43 AM, Leah Peterson <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:



Ryan,

That seat post is butt ugly. The only ugly thing on the bike. I like the setback it offers, and there are zero other options for that. Zero. This bike is unimprovable, save this one thing: the seat tube should have been 27.2 so I would have some OPTIONS. It’s my one sorrow.

Leah

On Oct 11, 2023, at 10:54 PM, Ryan <ryte...@mts.net> wrote:

the grips are smashing.but nitto needs to make a 26.8 lugged seatpost

for that lovely bike.just saying

On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 8:57:32 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

Raspberry Platypus BEFORE:

AND After…

On Oct 11, 2023, at 9:53 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover thread.

Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my favorite Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips and occasionally, saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in the Great Lakes State, and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of season. I was gifted a chestnut Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull it out and put it on the bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other Platypus, slapped them on and sent her a photo. 

“That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving me the unvarnished truth. 

I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally found these grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but didn’t have them up on the website yet. She had the exact match to my chestnut saddle and days later, I had these gorgeous stamped leather grips in hand. The bike looks positively tonal. The colors of the paint throw out so many different shades of pinks and reds, thanks to the abundant glitter in the metallic; adding rich leather accessories only elevates the look. The stamped designs on the leather give the bike some texture and add visual interest at the handlebar area. 

This Platypus is like a little autumn posey. Perfect and pretty, and wholly appointed to its duty.

Now if I can just convince Deb to make these in ivory, so I have a pair to match my ivory Rivet saddle when spring comes…

Attached in the next post are the before and afters.

Leah

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[Mathias Steiner]

I'm late to the party here, but I can't believe there is a serious conversation about reaming out the seat tube enough to change seat post size.

Rivendell does not, as far as I know, divulge their steel specifications, except to state that they mix & match material thicknesses as needed by model and size.

But no matter the details, butted tubes come in 0.9/0.6/0.9 mm wall thickness and similar, with 1.0/0.8 considered stout.

 
Let's assume there's a reason for the "butting." It's really a "thinning" of the middle portion of the tube, as straight gauge tubing tends to be of the 1.0 mm variety all the way through.

From a quick internet search, it appears that seat tubes are generally single butted, with the thin part pointing up... meaning we're leaving 0.6 mm wall thickness at the seat post, assuming we started with 0.8 mm... Rivendell states they use air-hardened tubing, which can go as thin as 0.5 mm wall thickness.

I'd have to hear it from a frame builder that they think it's OK. I don't believe it.

cheers -mathias

[Johnny Alien]

For the record, I think I was the first person that mentioned it and I certainly didn't think it would take us down this whole path. :)

I apologize for causing a distraction. I myself have not had it done (nor do I want to) and was not really suggesting it, it was just a comment back to Leah casually wishing that it took a 27.2 to increase the setback stem options available to her. I know that others here have said they have done it.

[Ryan]

Think I was the one to mention the seatpost and I apologize for opening

a wound when the real point was Leah's new saddle and those snazzy

grips

[lconley]

Obviously, the saddle and grips must match. I have a Brooks Honey saddle and honey bar tape for my Custom.

I seem to remember something about not wearing white after Labor Day...

Secondarily, when I bought my 1st Rivendell Sam Hillborne it had a 27.2 seapost, when I bought my 2nd Sam Hillborne it had a 26.8 seatpost, same outer diameter - 28.6. The 26.8 uses 0.9 thick tube and the 27.2 uses 0.7 thick tube. Then there is the Bombadil with 0.8 thick tube and a 27.0 seatpost (same as the Guv'nor). At one time, Grant obviously thought that 0.7 was thick enough. I honed the Bombadil out to 27.15 or so with an automotive brake cylinder hone, so that I could use the Nitto Lugged seatpost. It took may hours and two sets of honing stones. I have since purchased a 27.2 reamer that I haven't used yet, but I cannot image it taking over an hour, or even half an hour to do the deed. Prep will take longer - removing the crank and bottom bracket and cleaning out the seat tube and re-coating with Boeshield.

Laing

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Apologies in advance for indulging in yet another non Riv build show and tell, although this one has essentially served as my Quickbeam/SimpleOne/Roaduno placeholder since I’ve acquired the frame.  Having dug up some of my previous build pics and finally documenting its current build this afternoon I’ve just been reminiscing over some of my impulsive makeovers and also laughing at the many parts that have passed between frames (in some cases going full circle on multiple occasions!)

Trekking bar ruffy tuffy roadish build 1.0

Flipped north road scorcher

Mustachioed underbike

Choco low rider 

Choco basketeer 

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

All is well! It’s still a fun thread. I’ll figure out the seat post eventually. It seems to me to be working fine the way I have everything, even if it does involve an ugly seat post. I love the grips so far and I only wish Deb would make some ivory ones to match my other saddle. 

Anyway, it’s fun to change up the look now and then. And with a growing number of RivSisters in the fan base, you can expect more fashion threads and bike outfit threads. 😜

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Finally documented the current state of the Clem with its unseasonably white grips after sneaking out for a lunch ride earlier.  

With another saddle/seatpost swap, front and rear racks back on, and finally getting around to the front v-brake swap to get the needed noodle/straddle wire clearance with the fork crown mount with slightly shorter arms.  Haven’t switched rear v-brakes and may not unless my wife objects to the black and silver brake mullet.  But it was easy enough to swap the arms with leaving cables and noodles intact so will see.

Brian

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Big Clems in New Jersey!! 

I need to rewrap my left grip, but you can’t see it in this photo taken earlier today during one of my rare commutes out to Jersey. Working on a new rear rack for this, but it’s moving slow. Rack makeover soon though…

-Kai

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Two Big Bullmoosed Clems, too! 

I honestly kind of miss my Ergon style grips on the bullmoose though (after those I had were donated to another build.)  I eventually do plan to swap my round silicone foam grips at some point but not just yet.  Well done with the harlequin wrap and I like the orange fenders too.  I haven’t had a fendered bike since moving on from a too small Sports 3-speed.  If I do add fenders anywhere it’ll either be on the Clem if I move to a more slick tire or my replacement Raleigh that ended up a single speed (if I could fit 45mm fenders over the 32mm tires under the long reach calipers).  I’d still like to build an alternate 700c 3-speed wheel with my AW hub collecting dust on the shelf for that Raleigh but just haven’t made it a priority yet.

Looking forward to seeing your new rear rack creation!

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[Roberta]

Ryan,

I love the white grips with your mustard colored Clem.  I once had a mustard Appaloosa and was never crazy about its color. However, your Clem has made me change my mind about the color and how the accessories can really change the look— your Clem is like a well thought out and put together outfit. 

I recently installed light tan ESI grips on my Homer to hopefully match my head tube, although it turns out that the head tube is more yellowy-tan. It’s close enough for me although I might go for the aqua color next time as it’s a fairly close match to my bike frame. 

I have the same Ergon white grips as Leah on my mermaid Platy. They were hard to find and I’m not sure if they’re made any longer. I LOVE her new grips but I think they might look too heavy on my Platy, which has a more  lightness vibe. 

Roberta 

Philadelphia 

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[Josh C]

Kai, 

Love that clem. Do you commute on that regularly and if so what is your lock-up situation? It looks like it's accumulated some real-world working miles, and I love it. I'm currently commuting on a Rohloff Surly but was thinking about switching over to a clem for that purpose. I lock in an open air parking garage that is tucked out of the way, but that can still be accessed by anyone who happens by, making it not the most secure parking place. I may start up a Riv commuter thread on here to see folks commuters and hear about their parking situations. I'd be interested to see how many of us on here use their Rivs as daily transportation and see pics of those rigs. 

[Richard Rose]

I am going to join in on this thread with my Gus. After carefully procuring just the right parts & building up my Gus myself (first time) I am making some changes. First, I will be swapping out my Deore rear derailleur for a NOS T400 Nexave rapid rise unit. Trail riding on the Gus has convinced me that Rapid Rise is worth the experiment. The promise of easier downshifting under duress is attractive. Along with this change I will be discarding the Microshift thumb shifters for Silver 2’s. I have them on my Clem & adore them. And while I am at it & although I love Bosco bars on the Gus & Clem, I think I want a slightly more aggressive handlebar yo better exploit the Gus’s singletrack abilities. So, an Albacore handlebar from Hope Cyclery is on its way to me. Unfortunately this will require a different, shorter stem. Probably a 35mm Boxcar. Should be a very different bike. Fingers crossed.:)

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 21, 2023, at 9:37 AM, Josh C <getjosh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kai, 

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[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Thanks Josh!

I’ve got a Rambouillet I like to commute on but I’ve been riding the Clem exclusively since I busted my arm skateboarding. The Ram’s set up more forward/aggressive, and is less easily shifted into a more upright position. Fortunately I get to park my bikes in the back lot of my work, so I rest easy through the day. When I need to lock up in the city, I use a nice U-lock with a cable that I run through both wheels, seat, and handlebars (when I have the bullmooses). The one advantage of riding huge bikes is they’re less of a target for thieves, but still, I lock to the gills. New museum construction will be pushing me out of my backlot soon, so I’ll be locking up every day. The plans call for a small bike parking room indoors once complete (2? 3? 4 years?). Once I end up parking inside, I’ll worry a very slight bit about condensation. My bikes live in a cold or hot garage depending on the weather, so I’m never rolling my warm ferrous bicycle into a freezing storm, or worse, my frozen bicycle into a hot parking room, a situation I’ll surely be facing. I’ve demanded that they put in environmental controls to match the weather outside, but they know I’m mostly joking 😭…

-Kai

[Josh C]

Gotcha, it's nice that you have a pretty secure place to park it. Sounds like that's changing though. I guess that I've never worried much about condensation. I usually take mine out of my insulated garage, ride it through the weather, lock up outside for something like 13 hours each work day, ride it home and put it right back in the temp controlled garage. 

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Thanks, Roberta!  The Clem build has evolved a bit both deliberately and circumstantially.  I've also periodically added stickers when the mood strikes to further personalize it... between an overflowing sticker envelope begging to be emptied and as further deterrent to ever selling.  Not that I've really thought about selling, but as my only current bike of actual value I may have debated it now and then to offset other expenses.  I know I'd regret it, especially if my other and much older bikes end up failing (which is somewhat expected with unknown history of two frames being 40 years & older and a 3rd having always been mine but used heavily on and off since 1994.  I was very close to ordering a mustard 62cm Appaloosa when they were first released.  I ultimately passed knowing I'd be on the max end of the fit range of the 62cm and would strongly prefer to be at the middle or bottom end of the fit range having a history of too small bikes.  I'd later join the 65cm Clem H presale but even before the Mustard was announced as an option.  I just thought I'd end up with the dark green that was already being used until an unexpected email from Dave at Riv offering the Mustard option for those already set with the pre-sale with that batch.  Having previously considered the mustard Appaloosa and with another dark green bike already in my possession I didn't hesitate to opt for the mustard yellow, even though I still hadn't seen it in person.  I was ultimately pleased with the color and it really does seem to change depending on the lighting, surroundings, and components.  When paired with my mix of upcycled olive canvas bags they really pull out green shades in the paint.

After a game of musical grips between a couple of my and my spouse's bikes I ended up with a need for new grips on the Clem and choice between the white silicone and Portuguese cork grips... or various bar tape options in the grip box.  I've been saving a few things including those cork grips for far too long for some 'final' builds, once fully settled on bar/lever/shifter arrangements.  The other saved item is the now discontinued Velo Orange elkhide sew-on leather tape (the longer ones sized for drops.)  I almost used the cork grips here but went white silicone instead knowing that although I do like the feel of cork (it's admittedly an existing preference carried over from fishing rod grips... both textural and aesthetic)  but because I have not yet tried any of these ESI type grips I figured it was time to give these a try.  They are not actual ESI grips but another brand Riv briefly had listed in the garage sale and added to a previous order.  I do like the way the white pops in a way he cork would not and even kind of complements the cream text in the Clem Smith decal.  I have one set of actual Ergon grips (GP1, maybe) and another set of similar style that ended up on my wife's bike but recently found Ergon also now offers a GC1 model specifically made for swept back bars between 30 and 60deg backsweep and may eventually give those a try on either my Bullmoose or Jones bars to compare to my existing set or Ergons but not looking to make any immediate changes.  I have not seen any white colors offered recently with Ergon and believe you are correct that they must have been discontinued.  They seem to offer their round style grips in multiple colors but not with the other models.

Brian Cole

Lawrence NJ

On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 8:17:26 AM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:

[Roberta]

I think you were smart waiting for the right size.  I was lucky enough to try Leah's husband's (now son's) Clem H and I thought it rode a lot like my Appaloosa, just no lugs.  Like you, I'd rather be mid size than on the cusp, although if I had to choose, I'd rather be on the low PBH end, like I am with my A Homer Hilsen, than on the high end, like I was with Appaloosa.

Also, I had the cork grips on my mustard Appa.  They looked OK, but your white ones really made the color pop.  The cork grips, themselves, were pretty, organic, but the color really did nothing for the bike in general.   My third bike (also a Riv) has Ergon grips, as did all my previous bikes.  Next to actually learning about Riv and buying one, Ergon grips were the best investment I made to help alleviate my neck pain while riding.

Roberta