Self-adjusting Billie bars

[Rod Holland]

Last year, I bought one of the Web Specials, an Appaloosa set up with a 1x10 drivetrain, Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge Endurance tires, v brakes, and Billie bars. This arrived during our New England winter, and final assembly and first rides happened in January, during a break in the weather, after which the bike sat in the basement, at the end of of various queues, until yesterday, when I put it on the road, starting with a 25-mile mixed surface ride.  

The bike is set up for an upright riding posture, a bit of a departure for me. A bit more than halfway through the ride, I had to stop and dismount a little abruptly, and the Billie bars slipped in the Technomic stem, settling (apparently quite securely) into a roughly 45 ° angle. 

I had just been speculating about how they might ride with a bit of downward deflection, so I got a chuckle out of that, and proceeded to ride towards home in a more aero posture. 

I stopped in at my LBS, and they were good enough to restore the bars to their intended position on the spot. All went well until a block before my house, when, during braking, the bars slipped back to their previous droopy position.

I'll be taking the bike back in to the LBS next week. Question: has anyone else encountered this "self-adjusting" behavior with Billie bars in a Technomic stem? If so, what caused it? What cured it?

V brakes are one of the elements of novelty to me in this build, and I've been trying to apply them gently, but suspect that in each case above my braking created a transient inertial load on the handlebars.

rod

Eastern Massachusetts

[Cal Patterson]

Hi Rod,

Beautiful bike! Looks so great with those wide tires.

I have a set of Billie bars that I’ve put on several bikes, never had this happen.

I have, however, had this happen when a 25.4 bar is put in a 26.0 clamp stem. The fit can be snug enough to not identify an immediate need for shimming. You can tighten it down firmly enough, without bottoming out the stem clamp, and ride for quite a while really, but then end up with some slippage.  Also happened back in the old drop bar world, with 26.0 and 26.2 (Italian?) stems.

If you loosen the quill stem bolt on that technomic and lift it outta the steerer, the clamp diameter should be stamped down under there.

Might not be your issue, but an easy place to start.

Hope this helps,

Calvin

[Garth]

Assuming a proper fit for bar and stem, it's fairly common here. Many posts about it. No, it's not the brakes.

Grease the fixing bolt and use a longer lever wrench of your choice to fix the bolt in place, like 8+ inches. Long levers make everything easier to apply torque. Anti friction paste helps for some.

[Jason Fuller]

Billie bars have a ton of leverage, so they are better suited to 4-bolt clamp stems like the fillet faceplater, or Blue Lug / Nitto Power stem.  But they'll work with a Tallux/Technomic too, just requires either pushing the recommended torque a bit further, or using carbon paste at the interface.  I find you can really crank that bolt down without it stripping! 

[Rod Holland]

Cal, thanks for that suggestion. I'll have a look to see if that's the case. It would certainly cover the behavior.

rod

[Rod Holland]

Cal, thanks! I've never used carbon paste, will approach with caution.

rod

[Rod Holland]

Oops, that one was intended for Jason.

rod

[Rod Holland]

Garth, thanks! Good to know this isn't unheard of. 

btw, the hypothetical role of the V-brakes is their occasioning a rapid shift of my body mass onto the handlebars: the "a" term in F=ma. The "m", of course, is my body mass.

rod

[Rod Holland]

Jason, thanks! I've never used carbon paste, will approach with caution.

rod

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 10:31:57 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

[Ed Carolipio]

Just want to say I experienced the same rotation also, which I did *not* with the Albatrosses. I tried the tips from here which sort of helped but I eventually just switched to a 31.8 4 bolt threadless stem + handlebar shim + quill adapter. (Faceplaters are hard to source.)

--Ed C.

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 6:42:29 AM UTC-7 Rod Holland wrote:

[Rod Holland]

So, after reading all the replies here, and finding previous threads on the same subject from 2018, I reached into a package of Hobson-Zingo Allen keys, recently purchased from Rivendell through some sort of bicycle karma, and pulled out a 6mm wrench with a 7" lever that was longer than any other 6mm tool within reach. I used that to loosen the Billie bars in the Technomic stem, repositioned the bars, then tightened them in place, using the leverage to maximum effect.

The bars seemed secure (of course, that was also true before the first time they rotated, but time will tell). I took the Appaloosa out for a 20-mile shakedown ride, made sure I did a few things to challenge the handlebars, and was pleased with the fact that they seemed rock steady. Had a good ride, but came home and ordered a faceplate stem and a tube of carbon paste, just in case. And that Hobson-Zingo key is at least temporarily seconded to the Appaloosa's bag. Thanks to everyone for your help with this.

rod

Eastern Massachusetts

[Garth]

Hooray Rod !   Leverage is a wonderful thing isn't it ? 

Sure, 4 bolt stems are easy-er to get tight(also to mess up), but I get that many people still like the style of the Nitto road stems. While I too found myself thinking "those bars are too long for that style of stem", in reality that's not the case as bikes have had way-back bars of many variety since the bicycle has existed and they all had single bolt stems. Picture a basic 50's style cruiser with bars that went waaay back and wide on single bolt stems. 

Having used multi-speed freewheels and Specialized/Campy hubs since forever I got by removing the 12-28t variety with a seeming puny 10" Crescent wrench until I got some Phil Wood hubs and larger 13-32t freewheels. Those were a whole lot more difficult. I finally wised up and bought a 24" breaker bar which makes removing them and bottom brackets joyously easy. With that longer lever also comes it's judicious application of force, often a lighter touch than you may think. Longer levers don't have to be used the full length all the time, like a baseball bat you can choke up as needed. Sometimes you swing for the fences, so to speak, sometimes just to clear the shortstops reach. Same lever, many applications. Always fun ! 

[Doug H.]

I had that same issue with Bosco bars on a Clem H. I tightened the bolt really tight and they still slipped then I tightened them a little tighter, more than I thought I should to the point that I thought surely something would bend. And that last creak of tightening did the trick. 

Doug

[Paul M]

When all else fails there is the bomb proof bullmoose style handlebar

[Paul M]

[Rod Holland]

Garth, amen! Archimedes is our friend...

rod

On Tuesday, May 17, 2022 at 5:44:52 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

[Rod Holland]

Doug, "that last creak of tinkering" is both poetic and precise. There was a distinct last creak when the bolt abruptly gave by several degrees before refusing to budge again.

rod

[Rod Holland]

Paul, I always did wonder what motivated the bullmoose architecture...

rod

[Patrick Moore]

Unhappy with the excessively upright position of the North Road bar (steel) on my second, this one 5-speed, Raleigh Sprite, I flipped the bar for a more comfortable position, only to find that, with more weight on the bar, it would slip in the clamp when I hit bumps. I stopped at a bike shop (WDC, Dupont Circle area, circa 1986; does any recall the name?) and plaintively described the problem to the first mechanic I saw, a burly guy. He took a look and said, "We can fix that," then walked back to the workbench and picked up a huge crescent wrench. He torqued the hex-head clamp bolt and yep, it never slipped again.

Again, all steel, bar, stem, and bar clamp bolt; but torque did the trick.

[Rod Holland]

Patrick, "torque did the trick", words to live by.

rod