Susie Tire suggestions?

[David Wadstrup]

I've got a Susie frameset on the way and am already in possession of a beautiful set of Cliffhanger/WI MI5 wheels.  I'm uncertain, though, of which tires to choose.  I'd prefer tan sidewalls, if possible, and would like a 2.6 width(since I'll be running a 2x drivetrain.)  I've been looking at Teravail's offerings, but don't know anyone who's personally used them.  Does anyone here have any firsthand knowledge?  I'm looking at either the Honcho or the new Kessel.  

This bike will be dedicated to riding trails.  I am not an overly aggressive rider, but I do want a performance oriented tire, if you know what I mean.  I live in the Northeast and am looking for stability and safety while riding sometimes muddy and wet-rooted trails.  I'm a big fan of Schwalbe's tires and thought the Hans Dampf would be an appropriate 2nd choice(or first choice?) if the Teravails weren't recommended.  But sadly, their new "skinwall" versions don't aesthetically appeal to me. What do  you think -- Tervail Honcho or Kessel or Schwalbe something or other?

Thanks for your advice!

[Deacon Patrick]

Here's my initial review of Nobby Nic's (2.8"), which I still love are still going strong a year later. https://deaconpatrick.org/i-get-a-grip-while-the-aspen-bloom

With abandon,

Patrick

[Deacon Patrick]

Oh, and for me, tan walls are preferable, all things equal, but no way I'd only look at tan wall options. I steered away from Terevail just because they are such an unknown quantity.

With abandon,

Patrick

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 9:16:06 AM UTC-6, David Wadstrup wrote:

[Ed Fausto]

Hi Patrick,

With the 2.8" Nobby Nic, can you still install fenders in your Gus?

Thanks.

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[Kurt Manley]

I have 29x2.6 Teravail Honcho (light and supple casing) on my Karate Monkey and I like them. Not as grippy in loose stuff as the Nobby Nics I had before but they do roll faster and feel nicer on smooth.

I did cut a light casing Teravail but that was in the Sierras on some pretty sharp shale.

I would say for wet and rooty trails I'd want Nobby Nic, If I wanted to trade a small bit of traction for a faster roll on smooth/hardpack go Honcho

[Kurt Manley]

One more thing to add....On 35mm rims 29x2.6 Nobby Nics were more like 2.4 actual after months of use. Teravail much closer to 2.6 when I first installed, probably stretched after use but I not re-measured

[maxcr]

We're going with 2.1" Thunderburts on Cliffhanger rims for my wife's upcoming Susie build. I have them in the Hunqa and they're phenomenal on trails.

Max

[Hetchins52]

So, wouldn't a not-so-knobby 2.8" tire work with a double crankset? 

How do you figure out the chain to tire clearance, and bottom bracket, on a not yet available frame?

I've got a medium Susie frame coming. The demo medium at RBWHQ had a Silver double (w/chain guard) and Bontrager knobbies.

And, I bought a pair of 650 x 2.8" Schwalbe, G-One LiteSpeed tires.

Wheel bits not yet purchased but probably will use Cliffhanger rims.

David Lipsky

Berkeley, CA

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 8:16:06 AM UTC-7, David Wadstrup wrote:

[Abcyclehank]

Not to poach this topic but can I expand it to ask a tire recommendation for the Atlas wheelset I already possess for my Susie. Max size. Will be building up a set of Cliffhangers for the Gus also arriving.

Ryan Hankinson
West Michigan

[David Wadstrup]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone! I’ll likely stick with the Schwalbes, but was glad to hear of a positive experience with the Honchos.

David, here’s what Grant wrote to me regarding tire size/chainring count compatibility....


• A 2.8-inch tire in back works best with a single ring up front. B/C in the low gear on a double, the chain gets too close to the tire, and on bouncy stuff it'll rub and the knobs can catch on it and suck it into the gap btw the tire and chainstay. That can be avoided by shifting to ANY OTHER GEAR when you go bouncing down a bumpy hill---but sometimes you'll forget to do that, and it'll make you feel dumb, which is less than ideal.


Best,

David

[Clayton Scott]

Or you can just get some boost cranks and not worry.

Clayton Scott

HBG, CA

[Garth]

  David, I called Riv today and spoke with Grant about this very thing. I referenced a past post somewhere on the group about riv recommending a 127mm BB for his Silver triple setup as a double w/guard. I wasn't sure if this was a chainstay clearance thing or a chainline thing, but it was neither, it was a chain clearing the tire thing !  It seems with a max 2.8 tire and a 122 BB the chain may rub against the tire in the lowest gear. Not a lot of rub, but enough that you may notice, and some people may freak out over that, my words, not Grants. He also explained however that Shimano has a deeper non-ds cup available for their BB's.  I may have utterly missed how he meant it, but I'm "assuming" it would essentially allow you to move the 122mm BB over to the DS a few mm's for more clearance. I've done this with DS shims myself on Tange BB's for better chainring clearance without needing to go with the next length BB.

If that doesn't make sense give Grant a call and he'll help you out. He's a nice chap !

It had been a long time since I last talked to Grant, maybe 20 years. We both so miss the paper catalog days of not only bike parts, but manufacturer catalogs for literally everything sold ! Many of them were so creative, with photos and story. The digital thing just isn't the same, not even close. I wished I lived close the RBW HQ, I'd be in there all the time just to share stories.

[Clayton Scott]

I like the Bongrager Chupacabra tires. Mine measure 2.8 on wide rims.

Clayton Scott

HBG, CA

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 8:16:06 AM UTC-7, David Wadstrup wrote:

[David Wadstrup]

Clayton, you remind me of another question I've been looking for an answer to.  As mentioned, I'll be going with a Shimano 2x12 drivetrain, and will likely use their XT crankset.  I noticed 2 versions are offered -- a standard and a "Boost."  Never having heard of Boost before, I looked it up and decided it probably wasn't something that I needed for the Susie.  I still think that a 2.6 tire is as wide as I want to go regardless considering my Cliffhanger's rim width, but is there any other reason beyond the chain/tire clearance that would make you recommend I use the Boost?  I'm at bit out of my league with the these state of the art components.  And if you happen to know, would the XT BB-MT800 be the bottom bracket of choice for my set up?

AND... is there a different crankset you'd recommend?

Thanks so much for your help.

[Garth]

Another way to offer some chain rub relief in low/low is to leave off the smallest cog on your cassette, that's "if" you don't really need it. Then place some spacers, or an old cog and some spacers where the largest cog was, and tighten the lockring on the 12 or 14 smallest cog. You'd have to have a set of different spacers to play around with what works. The lockring doesn't require the cog that it tightens against to have serrations, it's there as an extra measure. Of course check it periodically. Whatever works !

Myself I have no use for 11t or 12t cogs, so if I have such an issue that's what I may do, rather than increase the chainline. I only really need 7 cogs with a double or triple. I don't have any plans to run 2.8" tires though. I didn't get a Susie just for the ability to run those tires, but I chose it over the Clem -L because the head tube is so much higher, had a higher nice swooping "top" tube, and it was ORANGE ! If all i could ride with it was 2.4" tires I'd be alright with that. the 2.8 is just gravy.

To me, the potential problem stems from the 8/9/10 speed 135mm hub design and where it places the inner cog relative to the former 7 speed hub. If we had the former 7 speed hub spacing(even with extra cogs in the same space) you wouldn't have that problem. The 8/9/10 places that additional cog towards the center, increasing chain angles in the small cog and moving the chain closer to the tire. The bigger the tire, the closer it gets. That's the irony of the boost 148 system as it's about moving the cassette outboard for clearance of big tires. You don't need a boost crank with a boost hub if you friction shift, or even indexing for some people  You'll have better chain angles with a non-boost crank on a boost 148 hub. It really depends on the chainline of the given crank.

For those that don't know what the Boost thing is , this may help. ... https://enduro-mtb.com/en/tech-talk-whats-the-boost-standard-all-about/

I take the red/green check thing with a grain of salt, those are manufacturer "recommendations". meaning "buy my boost stuff, nothing else will work". Hah hah .

[Clayton Scott]

Really just a clearance thing. If you can get away with no boost that is fine and possibly better if the the rear is spaced 135.

Even a 2.4 should be fine. I like the fatter almost 3" tires for fast rides, they are a ton of fun and the traction is amazing, but I just got back from Annadel where I was the only ridid single speed with 42mm tires today and all was good fun. Carried the bike across a few rock gardens to preserve the rims but all in all it is amazing what you can get away it. Not faster, but certainly more interesting again on the beaten paths.

Not knowing the geo on the Susie it is hard to make any solid recommendations. I'd give RBW a call to sure.

Clayton Scott
HbG, CA

[Paul Richardson]

the first set of tires i'll be trying out on my xl wolbis are the 55cm from compass, mounted to cliffhangers.  they'd probably fit fine on several other riv models, and aren't fully making use of susie's generous clearance, but i've got them already and they're plenty wide compared to what i usually ride on my homer.

i'd love to hear from anyone else what you've got planned in the way of parts.

can.  not.  wait.  any longer.

paul

takoma park, md.

[iamkeith]

Re: Teravail quality, skinwalls and other thoughts:

I wanted skinwall tires on another 650b plus-size mountain bike of mine, and originally got Teravail Coronados.  They were a little too wide at a true 3" so I didn't get to really use them, but I will say that I was extremely impressed by the quality.  I wouldn't shy away at all.   The tan sidewalls seem a lot more durable than most, and would likely last longer.

I ended up with Maxxis Rekon 2.6 instead.   They're not bad and roll a lot better on hard surfaces than they look like they would, but the tan sidewalls are the more common type that are prone to dry-rot and ozone damage.  Seeing them after a year of being mounted and ridden, I'd be shocked if the sidewalls outlasted the tread.  They're also very under-sized which I hear is now the norm for Maxxis.  (Odd, because their blockbuster Ardent was known for being true to size or even a little oversized.)

For my forthcoming Suzie, I have a set of V Speedster 2.8 tires  (all black, in 700c).  They're a massive volume with small knobs and are a perfect profile on  34mm internal rims.   I was really looking forward to testing them and reporting results, but alas...

...I just learned that the fork was built wrong.  So it's going to be late summer before I get a chance.  Not a big deal, except that the anticipation is killing me.