Studded Tire Experience, help

[David Wadstrup]

Hello,

I recently moved to Maine, and would really like to keep riding trails even in these snowy, icy conditions.  So, I'm hoping for some advice.  I initially thought a fat bike might be in order, but after diving deep into Surly Wednesday research, I've decided that it's just not for me -- I'd much rather ski, or even snowshoe, if there's a significant amount of new, unpacked snow.  What I'm mostly interested in riding is our local, hilly, graveled trails that are fully snow covered and that see a lot of foot traffic even in winter(walkers, skiers, snowshoers, fat bike riders, even some snowmobiles.)  So here are my questions to those of you who have experience with winter trail riding...

1) I can fit a 2.6 tire on my Susie.  Is this fat enough to ride snowy, icy, chewed up, packed trails?  I'm sure it's possible, but is fun?  I know a fat bike would give better float, and roll over everything more, but would my plus sized 29er tires handle it ok? Would it float enough and roll over enough to make investing in a set of VERY expensive 2.6 studded tires be worth it?  Or will it just be mostly a slog?

2) Regarding studded tires...I've used 40mm wide Nokian Hakkas for wintertime commuting in the city, but am going to need something wider, something designed for trail riding.  The two best options as far as I can see are the Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pros and the 45North Wrathchilds.  The Schwalbes only come in a 2.25" width, the 45Norths in a 2.6".  Obviously, wider sounds better, but there are some mitigating factors... 

On the one hand, the 45Norths are considerably more expensive than the Schwalbes.  They have less studs, and they seem to be prone to exceptional stud loss and have garnered a number of negative reviews.  There are two versions of them, though.  One, a 60TPi version with "regular" sized studs; two, a 120TPI version with "XL" sized studs.  They are similar in price.  From what I can gather, the 120/XL version seems to be the version that sees the most stud loss and is the one almost all of the online negative reviews reference.  Does anyone have any experience with either of these versions?  Is my assumption that the 60TPI loses less studs correct?  What do you think of this tire generally?  Is it wide enough for packed, snowy trails?

On the other hand, the Schwalbe Ice Spikers are much less expensive.  They have considerably more studs.  Their current version seem to have far few negative reviews.  But they are .35" narrower -- that's 9mm! I would think that this 9mm would make a huge difference in performance in the conditions I'm looking to use them in, but maybe it won't?  Maybe 2.25 and 2.6 tires will be comparable? Maybe the greater stud count and better reviews and lower cost outweighs the extra width of the 45North?  What  do you think?

Thanks for whatever advice you might have.  Oh, and in case it makes a difference --  I'll be running them with tubes and will not need to ride these tires on pavement before getting to the trailhead(it's right outside my door, practically!)

Thanks,

David

[Jesse Stoddard]

Can't speak to winter trail riding, but in case it's at all helpful: I've been rambling around the 'hood (Michigan) w/ the 2.25" Ice Spiker Pros (wire-bead) for the past couple seasons without incident. Bedded them on cement for 5 or 10 miles and haven't lost a single stud.

I can totally see being tempted by the extra width of the 45North's, but the reviews of their various studded offerings seem to suggest some QC issues if nothing else.

[Steven Sweedler]

David, I rode 26” x 2.2 tires with aggressive studs for many years in New Hampshire. The riding was a struggle unless very well packed or after a thaw  and then another hard freeze.  When conditions are good, its a lot of fun. Steve

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Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

[Ian A]

My experience is similar to Steven's. I'm in Alberta, Canada and am running Ice Spikers Pro (folding bead) 26"x2.1". 

I would add to Steven's comment that riding on a snow trail which has been walked on can be hard going; bouncing around and finding it hard to pick a line, which is essential in snow as momentum is everything.. Those areas are where the fat bikes sail along. Deep snow is basically not ridable at all.

IanA Alberta Canada

[Michael Morrissey]

I have studded snow tires and used to use them to commute to work here in New York City on my vintage 80s mountain bike. I LOVE THEM. It's so fun to just go anywhere with confidence.

Check out a ride I went on here on my YouTube channel:

https://youtu.be/B0xyW6dUSow

For trail riding in Maine though, I would buy a Surly Wednesday in a heartbeat. Have you seen the latest color for the Ice Cream Truck? It's an amazing pale green.

m

[Christopher Cote]

Hi  David. Maine native and avid fat bike and winter cycling enthusiast here. You didn't say which part of the state you are in. This makes a difference, north or south, coastal or mountains, the weather and snow conditions are quite different. I'm guessing, since you're asking about riding on icy, packed trails, that like me, you are in the southern part of the state. My observation of the last several years is that you typically would get a few days a year at most where skinny (meaning not fat bike tires, less than 3.8" actual width) studded tires are usable. The current conditions here contradict that, but if there's nothing else to know about Maine winter trail conditions, know that they're variable and change rapidly. Looking at the long range forecast, if you buy some skinny studs now, you might get a week or more use out of them, at least. This is unusual.

Something to note is that many local trail groups have bought snow groomers in the past few years, and they put a lot of time and money into grooming the trails. Please, please, do not ride skinny tires on groomed trails. If you slice ruts into them, no one will be happy. There's a growing community of fat bike riders and more and more opportunities to ride in the winter. My 2 cents is if you want to really enjoy trail riding here in the winter, get a fat bike. One that can fit 26x5" tires is best, as that will give you the most opportunity to ride in the widest range of conditions.

Chris

On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 9:48:58 AM UTC-5 David Wadstrup wrote:

[David Wadstrup]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the link!  I actually just moved here from Brooklyn.  Riding around the city on snowy days was one of my favorite things to do.  Just unfortunate the city saw so little snow the last couple of years.  And yes, I agree with you on the green of the ICT -- I love it.  I had originally thought it would be the smart choice, but after reading a bunch of reviews and commentaries, decided that the less aggressive Wednesday would be better.  A lot of people also feel the q-factor is just too extreme.

Hi Chris,

I'm on the coast a bit north of you in Camden, and ride primarily on the local trails here -- in Camden State Park, Snow Bowl, etc.  I really appreciated hearing your advice -- it's seeming like the consensus says a fatbike is the way to go if I'm going to be able to continue riding trails in the snow(whether packed or groomed or unpacked.)  Glad I'm figuring this out now as the 29 x 2.6" studded tires would be a $400 investment.  Not at all worth it to me if it's only going to be fun using them during the early and late season transitions.  Hmmmm.....  What kind of fatbike do you ride?

Best,

David

[Christopher Cote]

David,

I have a Surly Wednesday and an Ice Cream Truck. The ICT sees 99% of the winter miles. The added float of the wider rims and tires is irreplaceable, IMHO. I just built up a second set of wheels for it this year, so now I have the stock wheels with 100mm rims and Vee Snowshoe 2XL (5.05" actual width!) for soft conditions, and the new wheels with 80mm rims and Terrene Johnny 5 studded tires for hardpack and/or icy conditions.

Fat bikes are in very short supply right now, so if you want to buy one, you'll have to take what you can get. I would suggest avoiding anything with QR axles though, as through axles are pretty much standard now. Also, don't fall into the 27.5x3.8" trap. Get a bike with true 26x4.6-5" wheels/tires.

You mentioned late season transition. I'm sorry that I have to tell you about mud season. Typically, the trails go from snow to mud in a very short time in the spring, and it's off limits until things dry out.

Chris

[Marc Irwin]

Here in Michigan I have been using 50mm  Marathons, but my riding is a combination of streets and paved trails.  The trails are usually packed rutted and icy and generally fun to ride for a change of pace.  I suppose a more aggressive tread would be needed for snowy gravel.

Marc

On Thursday, January 7, 2021 at 9:48:58 AM UTC-5 David Wadstrup wrote:

[Dave Grossman]

I've had two sets of Nokians, one 26" and one 700c that I've ridden over the years with good results.  This year I just decide to go fat front on my Jones when its lousy out and its been so fun!

[Michael Morrissey]

Chris you are a lucky duck if you own two fat bikes! 

[Christopher Cote]

I am very fortunate, my bike stable runneth over. There was sort of a moment of "post peak fat bike" a few years ago when it was easy to pick them up.

Chris