Cockpit Quandaries - Friction bar ends for a new rider

[Paul Clifton]

What do y'all think about putting friction bar end shifters on Albatross bars for a new rider?

I'm just looking for opinions since I'm stumped on this build.

My options are more-or-less indexed or friction 9 speed Microshift thumbies, friction bar ends, or buy some rapid fire shifters.

I (selfishly) want to keep the thumbies for a different build for myself. And I'd have to buy a set of rapid fire shifters - which has its own problems (derrailer/cassette mismatching ...).

So I want to know - Do you think a new rider would be irritated by friction bar ends?

Here's the long story:

I have a very short friend (4'11" - PBH is 72). If money and availability were no object, I'd buy her a 45cm Clem and be done with it, but I can't do that myself, and she'd never spend that kind of money on a bike (at least not until she catches the biking bug from this bike I'm building her since it'll be the first bike that's ever fit her).

So my goal is to build a bike that fits her and is so fun to ride that she'll want to ride bikes all the time and eventually just buy a Clem.

I finally found a frame that will fit her. It's a tiny (41 cm) 90s Hardrock step through with 26" wheels and Shimano 200ES drive train, which is low end 90s 7-speed stuff. It has a triple crank that I will leave in place (buttery smooth even after 30 years). Both derailers are in good shape, but they're low end 90s stuff, so I doubt they feel great, but I bet they'd work with friction just fine. It came with junky old rapid fire shifters, so those are definitely getting replaced.

I'm planning to put Albatross bars on this bike, so my quandary is about the drivetrain. I'd like to use as many parts from my bin as possible, but I can't decide which combo is gonna work best and be the most fun for a timid rider. Buying new parts is no big deal, but I don't see the point in spending a bunch of money in the event she doesn't ride it much, so here are the relevant parts from my bin:

• Rear wheel options - 7 speed cassette wheel with good cassette. 8/9/10 speed wheel with no cassette.
• Shifters -Microshift 9 speed thumbies (I kinda want to keep these for another build). Shimano bar ends that no longer index.
  
• Derailers - New Altus 8 speed RD. Old Sora 9 speed RD. Shimano 600ES 7 speed RD.
  

So here are my options:

1. Keep the old 7 speed stuff. Friction bar ends or friction thumbies.
2. Buy a new 8 speed cassette. Use the Altus RD from my box. Friction thumbies or bar ends.
3. Buy a 9 speed cassette and a 9 speed derailer. Indexed Microshift thumbies.
4. Buy a 9 speed cassette, derailer, and rapid fire shifter. The Sunrace 9 speed stuff comes out to about $60 for the whole set up.

I have a new 3x rapid fire shifter for the front, but I hate how those shift, and I don't think I have a matching derailer - I can test the 200GS FD that is on there, but I personally think friction front is the way to go, and I definitely prefer a bar end for that over a thumbie, because the leverage feels better to me.

Since bar ends are just such a joy to use and have so much leverage, I suspect the Altus derailer and a 8 or 9 speed cassette with a friction bar end will be fantastic for her, but I'd love some second opinions, and since it's winter, I'm sure there are plenty out there, so feel free to make blue sky suggestions :)

Here's the bike before I tore it down to grease everything

Thanks,

Paul in AR

[Paul Clifton]

Oh yeah, and can anyone point me to the thread about routing v brake cable housing without the v brake cable guide near the seat clamp? Or tell me a good way to do it? I might be able to get away without a cable guide but I'd like to have a quick fix in my back pocket for when that doesn't work so good.

Paul in AR

[mikel...@juno.com]

v brakes noodles can easily be pointed downward. i would run housing from the cable stop up to the noodle. i routinely do this upgrade old cantis to v brakes on lady frames

mike goldman
rhode island

[Scott Luly]

As Mike noted, cable routing approach to v-brake noodles is pretty forgiving and allows some flexibility. It may be hard to visualize before attempting it, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Also, noodles with different bends and angles exist that might help you refine your set-up.

I personally like it when inner cable is fully housed from lever to brakes, because it's easier to shimmy housing this way or that through cable keepers (not stops). If you have a cable housing stop en route from lever to brake (and you probably do on a specialized), you'll just need to be a tad bit more precise with cutting housing segment length between last stop and noodle. Play with cable housing length and ideal noodle position before cutting housing. It's a fun task. Worst case you get it wrong 1st go and nail it 2nd attempt.

Good luck,

Scott in MT

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[DavidP]

I think for a new / timid rider I'd lean towards indexed over friction, mainly because learning to friction shift requires listening and micro-adjusting vs just clicking and pedaling - it's one more thing to "worry" about.

That said a friction front can be simpler and less frustrating to use than an indexed front, and mixing friction front with indexed rear can be a pretty nice setup.

If it helps, that Altus RD will index with 8 or 9 speed shifters and cassettes no problem (it's the shifter that does the indexing).

-Dave

[Joe Bernard]

My inclination fron your parts options is to try the 3x RapidFire on the front (it may work with that derailer) and buy an 8-speed RapidFire for your Altus rear derailer and an 8-speed cassette. But it would help a lot to know what system she's used to. 

[Scott Luly]

Go with Joe's wisdom...

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[Paul Clifton]

Thanks Mike and Scott for the tip on the v brake setup. I'll give it a go as is, and it probably won't be a problem.

And David, Joe, Scott - thanks for the input. Buying a rapid fire shifter and 8 speed cassette was really my first inclination, but it's getting harder to find 8 speed rapid fire stuff, at least at the usual places. I bit the bullet and went to ebay and of course everything I need is readily available for cheap, like $30 bucks all in for the shifter and cassette.

As to my friend's preferences ... she says she has no idea what she likes, and I believe her. She's never ridden a bike that fits, so she's never been comfortable enough to even think about the shifters. Even my wife's 45cm Clem L was a smidge too big; the seat had to be all the way down for her to even reach the bottom of the pedal stroke. A shorter seat would solve that but it'd still be at the limit. This Specialized will get the existing seat down below 60cm from the bottom bracket, so she'll be able to lower it enough to get a toe on the ground when she stops, which I know will make her feel more comfortable. I'm even concerned the that Albatross bars won't come back far enough for her and I'll have to source some Boscos (which is what she loved the most about my wife's Clem anyway). But that's going to be determined after she actually rides this with the parts I have for a bit. She's been through like 5 bikes that are too big and at this point there's no use throwing good money after bad, until we know it's small enough and functional.

Even so, I'll always wonder whether she would have like friction bar ends better :)

Paul

[Paul Clifton]

Oh, and HAHAHA, of course Riv has the Claris 8 speed rapid fire shifter in stock.

[Will Boericke]

New rider will not like friction shifting.  For 8 spd retrofits, I always buy microshift / sunrace.  Work really well, can usually get both shifters for $25ish.  Rear V brake retrofit is full length housing with zipties.

[JAS]

Compliments to  you for helping your RivSister friend get a bike that fits!  Having coached a few timid riders recently, I have a these suggestions:

1.  Index shifters with numbers or an indicator regarding gear "size" help new riders learn to shift without too much to think about.  Trying to understand low/high or easy/hard gear selection is mind-numbing to someone new to shifting.  Keeping it simple at first is best; if your friend finds out she loves riding, she'll be ready to learn the finer points of shifting and possibly move to friction later.  Learning to anticipate a shift to a lower/easier gear for a hill goes well if a coach (friend) rides along and suggests when to shift.

2.  Put the seat down low enough for  her to put her feet on the ground at first, if possible.  Even though that is contraindicated for good leg position while pedaling, it instills confidence when stopping.  As confidence increases, the saddle height can be raised.  Learning to stop is a complex skill.  Think of everything you  do which feels like second nature to an experienced rider.....start braking, put your weight on one foot, shift weight off of the saddle, step onto the ground while modulating the brake levers to a full and hopefully gentle, full stop.

3.  Something you're probably already addressing is to make sure she has a way to carry some stuff via a rack/bag to make adventuring more fun.

Good luck!   

--Joyce

[Joe Bernard]

Now that you have the rear shifting nailed, the question will be that front RapidFire. If it doesn't work - and we all know index front triple shifting sucks anyway - you can find a friction thumby for the front. Riv sells a lot of Clems with this shifter arrangement. 

[Garth]

Give your friend friction shifters first for goodness sake. Don't sell them short in their abilities, people don't need or want to be treated as incapable. You don't have to buy expensive thumbshifters, Sunrace SLM10 and Falcon are ratcheting ones for $10-15 and include cables. The ratcheting mechanism is plastic, but for casual use they work just fine. I have bot. They feel quite nice in the hand and can be used on both road and mtb bars.

I liken this to learning to drive. I learned with a manual transmission in high school drivers ed via a simulator trailer we had. When I actually got into a car with a manual tranny it was easy as pie. Should I have been "spared" the chance I'd be incapable of driving a car and shifting a manual transmission at the same time ?  Let them shift, let them mis-take a few. With manual shifting these are easily corrected. When indexed shifting goes wonky and you have no idea how shifting works in the first place, you're helpless as you have idea why the thingy on the handlebar doesn't work or even what it does.

[Tom Palmer]

I am with Garth on this. Albatross and bar end shifters in friction mode are easy peasy as long as the parts match or pretty close. My new Platypus has 10 speed microshift bar ends, basic Deore deraiiler, mid range 10 speed cassette, and basic Sram 10 speed chain o Albatross bars.

Shifting smooth and easy and if is chain chattering, move the shifter a little. The new rider will learn to understand the way of shifting. They also learn the value of not shifting on a small rise and hammering a bit to keep momentum. 

Similar (in my mind) to teaching someone to shoot a rifle. You do not start with a magazine fed semi-automatic like a Ruger 10/22. They quickly find firing rapidly, emptying the rifle id fun. They miss the basics of lining up the sight, breath out and hold, relax, aim, shoot. The process of racking a bolt for the next shot, or reloading a single shot, resets the process of accurate shooting.  Sorry for the long explanation, but rings true to me.

Tom Palmer

Twin Lake, MI

[Joe Bernard]

I don't want to learn how to shoot a rifle and don't use friction shifting for the rear even though I know how to do it. I think hunting around for the next cog just because you can is silly, the clicks work. 

[Eric Marth]

My vote would be for friction bar-ends because it's groovy, fun, looks cool, feels great. Anyone can learn it, nothing to it. 

You learn friction trimming and shifting quickly. Just a few anecdotal case studies: I did, my partner did (she is not an avid or frequent rider), my pal Glenn (who I just built a bike for) did, too. Way back when Grant wrote that his nine-year-old daughter learned it no problem without any input from him (look for it in one of the many friction celebration articles in earlier Riv catalogs). 

I rode Albatross bars with Shimano bar-ends and Silver 1 levers for about a year. Very good setup!

[Paul Clifton]

Thanks y'all. I knew there would be people on this list who agree with me that bar end friction shifting is really the easiest kind of shifting there is, but I think, at the end of the day, Joyce's perspective is really right on - for really novice riders, removing extraneous skills is the best way for a new, nervous rider to gain confidence and keep the focus on enjoying the ride. Kids learn on single speeds and now the learn without even having pedals and now they're riding younger and with more confidence.

Either way, I bought the clicky shifter and will install it and set it up before I give her the bike, but I may put the bar ends on the handlebars and let her feel how they fit in the heel of her hand and move with just the lightest torque and she can decide.

Joyce, I think she'll be able to get a foot on the ground with this frame, which is great, but your suggestion reminded me of another recent conversation I had with my father in law. He's 85 now and his balance and strength aren't what they used to be. He got a step-through ebike a year ago and rides it to play tennis, but he's been having trouble dismounting. He was asking me about seat posts with a lot of set back, so that he could keep the seat low enough to touch the ground but also still extend his leg comfortably. I don't think there's such a thing as a seat post with that much setback, but I think he might try a dropper post. It's going to be an interesting experiment, and hopefully it'll get him in a comfortable pedaling position and let him stop and dismount without having to do all the weight shifting.

As for the analogies, even some people who know how to drive stick or aim a gun are still pretty bad at it and don't really want to futz around with all that. I guess that's what Joe is saying.

Thanks everyone for all the thoughts.

Paul

[Joe Bernard]

I'll avoid the gun part this time and state the friction part more calmly: I understand the interest in rear friction shifting, I personally find it unnecessarily difficult on roads where I can't even hear if I made the shift cuz of the cars going by. Anybody who wants it is certainly free to go there; for the purposes of this discussion - which has been settled anyway - I think RapidFire is a very functional way for a novice rider to ride a bike. 

[Patrick Moore]

But that's the point, Joe. If you learn the skill -- it's not rocket science, for chrissake! -- you don't hunt, you just shift accurately. This assumes that your drivetrain components are basically decent in quality and condition.

As for choosing the easier method and thinking the slightly harder method -- requiring some little practice to acquire a skill -- is silly, well that's one person's choice and opinion, but not another's.

On Sun, Nov 27, 2022 at 3:44 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

... I think hunting around for the next cog just because you can is silly, the clicks work. 

[Patrick Moore]

My opinion: Yes if you can coach her well enough that she is comfortable with friction shifting; no if otherwise.

I think shifting derailleur systems, indexed or not, is a big barrier to many new riders; I judge this partly from the bikes I've seen with the gears more or less permanently stuck in "middle-small" combinations for triples. I think it's as much the number of gears over 3 or 5 that confuses people, let alone the confusion over multiple front and even more back sprockets.

Having to deal with the confusion while using a shifting system where you have to hunt the chain to the right position is even more daunting.

Apart from IGHs, I rather think a 1X would be the easiest derailleur system for a newbie to learn. 

But that said, so many others have dealt with it. Perhaps remove the fd and using just 1 ring?

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Chris Cameron]

It wasn't until 2019 that I switched over to biking after running for a number of years due to issues with my knees creeping up.  Anyway, I hadn't been on a bike really since I was a kid, so I grabbed a complete Surly Cross-Check, which came with bar-end shifters.  After about a year of riding, I got caught up in the brifter movement and switched everything over to a 1X setup with Rival 1 shifters.  While I enjoyed it for a bit, I'm glad to say that I switched back over to using a friction thumb shifter this year.  There really is something about friction shifting that just feels good in the hands once you get the hang of it.

[Will Boericke]

I agree with Patrick; my wife was never so happy as when I set up her bike 1x and she just had to use one shifter.  She rides mostly for errands and still occasionally forgets which direction "makes it harder".  As for friction, put me in the indexed camp.  I like the click-and-it goes simplicity and am willing to deal with aligning derailleur hangers more often to get it.

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[Joe Bernard]

Yes, my opinions are opinions. In my opinion. 

[esoterica etc]

On Nov 28, 2022, at 15:14, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[R. Alexis]

Paul,

Sorry to be late to the party. 

That Specialized looks to be in decent condition. My thought was to lean into replacing just what is needed. In this case I would go with replacing the bars and shifters. The derailleurs that are on there probably will do just fine. Getting some 7 speed thumb shifters like   Shimano SL-TX30 Tourney Thumb Shifter Set - 7 Speed or  SHIMANO TOURNEY SL-TZ500 THUMB SHIFTERS as a set would work as a good replacement for the Rapid Fire shifters. Even doing Grip Shifters with a macro adjust front will be more intuitive. 

Is there a reason to swap out the standard cantilever brakes for linear pull ones? I would just as soon adjust then totally swap out. 

I have a set of Shimano 7 speed GS or whatever shifters. Have several sets I bought years ago from a local bike shop that closed. Modified a couple to correct design flaw in the cable stop. Drilled and threaded one for barrel adjusters and the other just used a stepped ferrule housing end. 

Thanks,

Reginald Alexis

On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 5:03:26 PM UTC-6 Paul Clifton wrote:

[Garth]

Did I miss the part where the friend actually rode the Hardrock as it is to see how it felt in fit and function ?  It seems that without some input from her, you'd be trying to make her into something she is not. 

[Joe Bernard]

This would indeed be helpful. I assumed the need for new shifters was because the original push-push were gummed up into uselessness after 30-odd years, but we don't know if she's even tried the bike. 

[Paul Clifton]

:)

Are y'all really asking me to defend why I'm upgrading a 30 year old bike for a very good friend of mine? Sheesh.

Of course I've gotten her input. Here's what she's said:

• "I want a bike like [your wife's] bike, with those handlebars." - 45 Clem L with Boscos (also a bit too big...)
  
• "No way, I'm not spending that much money on a bike, and you better not spend that much on a bike for me either." - We've all been there, and I won't, especially since Riv doesn't make a bike small enough for her. I'll split the cost of a custom with her if she catches the bug and nothing else will do. :)
  
• "My husband got me another bike from someone he works with, but I just don't like the way it feels." - It's a 700c wheel bike with the seat all the way down and the adjustable angle stem all the way up to get the flat bars close enough for her to reach 'em so she's bent over riding it like it has ape hangers on it. This has happened like 5 times.
  
• "I mean, I've never ridden a bike that fits, so I have no idea what kind of shifters I'll like. I just want a bike that's not a kids bike, and that fits, so that I can put my foot on the ground when I stop." - I know that that's not a criteria for what "fits", but it'll make her feel better riding it, and she can raise the seat when she's ready.

I'd love to have gotten her to ride it first, but I live in Arkansas and she lives in Georgia. I did say that she's ridden my wife's 45cm Clem L, and it was a smidge too big. I also mentioned that I know her PBH, so I have a good idea of her saddle height, and this bike accommodates that with some room to go shorter, so she can get it low enough to put a foot on the ground. Finding a used (inexpensive) bike that's smaller than a 45 Clem L and that "isn't a kids bike" is not easy, so when I found one, I asked her if she liked the color, then I measured it when I checked it out, then I bought it (and I didn't pay COVID prices on a vintage MTB either, even though the asking price was obscene).

The seat height will work. She'll have about a fistful of seatpost showing! If the reach is too short, I'll put on a longer stem. But I'm more concerned that even with Albas, I'll need to find a shorter stem and it'll impact the handling, so I may have to buy some Boscos, but I'm at least holding off on that expense.

The derailers may be fine. I'll probably give them a try with new shifters just to see, but they are absurdly heavy and have some quirks that new derailers have improved on. They're basically Tourney level, which, even new, is lowest usable group in my opinion. And I have an new Altus in my bin that's been waiting for a bike, so why not!

And, come on, rapid fire shifters from the early 90s feel like garbage compared to almost any other shifter ever made, even brand new. So I'm swapping them out so her first impression of the bike won't be "this feels bad". I appreciate the frugality of using everything as long as it works, but I'd rather give my friend a bike the feels good, than one with 30 years of gunk in it. I didn't have any 7 speed shifters in my bin, but I do have a nice 8/9 speed wheel and two compatible shifter options, so it seemed like I could get away what I had on hand, but it hasn't worked out that way. So I'm in about $40 for a cassette, chain, and shifters. I went with Sunrace shifters so the display will be on the outside of the bar so it won't take up unnecessary grip real estate. Either way, having an 8/9/10 speed wheel on it will be a little more future proof.

The cantilever brakes work ok, and would be even better with new cables, but the pads are crispy and the levers that were on there were plastic!! I have v brakes, new pads, and nice Tektro levers in my bin that will feel better anyway. I actually got the levers and brakes for free to begin with, so it's actually cheaper for me to replace the whole setup than buy new cantilever pads.

The bike IS in mostly good shape. I love the paint. A good friend of mine had the men's version with a similar paint scheme when we were in middle school. It's got me nostalgic. I honestly think this bike is beautiful, even well proportioned, which is hard to find on a small bike. But it's been maintained even less than it's been ridden. I've had to repack the hubs and the headset, no big deal. It's got a little rust here and there, some bubbles under the paint, so it's been stored somewhere dampish. But none of that appears to be the bad kind in the bad places, especially with tubing as thick and heavy as this bike has. The cables, chain, brake pads, and saddle were probably original! The previous owner (not the first) basically got a shop to make sure it was safe and replaced the pedals and grips. She then backed her car into a pole with it on the rear rack and ruined the front wheel. Thankfully the fork is fine.

My friend wants a bike! She's talks about it frequently. But finding a bike for her has been a years long process for lots of reasons. She's bought new bikes from shops. The shop guy told her it fit, but the seat was too high, and the reach was too long. It had 700c wheels, and the handling was twitchy, and she wasn't comfortable or confident. So to me,  it's clear it didn't fit and was poorly designed in general. She's ridden a bunch of hand-me-down bikes from "small" people. For the most part she can barely get the seat low enough to reach the pedals. They have  all had 700c wheels, and on small frames, that makes the handling really twitchy, which isn't good, especially for an inexperienced and timid rider. Everyone on this list probably knows that already: to paraphrase Grant - big wheels + small frames = bad combo.

I've only ever met one other adult as small as her. That person just rode a BMX bike. This is the smallest bike I've seen with 26" wheels. I know the saddle height will work, and the handling should be much better than everything else she's ridden, except for my wife's Clem, which costs 4x as much and wouldn't fit. If the handling is still bad, she'll have to find a 24" wheel bike. Since I think it will fit, I'm doing everything else I can to improve the riding experience so that she doesn't think, "Well, I have a bike that fits, but it isn't fun to ride. I must just not like riding bikes." Hence the question about shifters and what I can get away with for an inexperienced and timid rider.

I'll take a couple saddles and stems with me when I give it to her. And I'll probably even take a couple options for shifters. So, if it fits, she'll be able to finally form an educated opinion about what she does and doesn't like. Maybe I'll eve take the set of black Loscos I have, and let her try them, but they'd go out on indefinite loan only. I'm attached to them, even though they don't work for me.

And if it doesn't fit, which given her track record is a real possibility, the bike will be in Atlanta where it will sell for more than I have in it, or I'll let it go for free to someone it does.

So thanks for the opinions on shifters. It's nice to see it's a pretty even split, which has encouraged me to give her the option, but I'll do it in person when she and I take it out for a ride together. This is gonna be a great holiday.

Cheers,

Paul

PS If anyone wants this old stuff I've taken off (plastic brake levers, canti brakes, 7 speed shifters, cassette, chain, and probably the rear derailer and 7 speed hub and or wheel) keep an eye out on the list. I MIGHT offer it free for shipping when this is all said and done. Maybe there's a frame out there for them.

[Pam Bikes]

Friction and albatross bars are great.  I didn't know how to use them when I got them but it's easy.  Takes 5 minutes to learn.  Not sure where she lives in GA but I'm in NC and would be glad to help.  I'm in Charlotte, NC which is on the border of SC.  I'm from Augusta, GA which is only 2 1/2 hrs away.  I have a 47 Betty Foy so I have the same issue.  This is the only bike that fits me.  Let me know if I can help.

[ascpgh]

Tendencies of cleaning, adjusting and using what's present versus replacing 30 year old OEM parts with things you have, know or prefer may be genetic. People cannot help themselves if the trait is expressed.

I know thirty years is a long time for a bike sold as new to migrate the landscape but I did sell many of that model and color up the road from you. Those ratty RapidFire lower end shift units may have worked decently if curated by museum staff but more than half of those delivered had the lower button lever (stamped sheet metal) bent enough to interfere with the upper button inside an otherwise pristine looking bike box. The way they assembled the cockpit and placed it as tethered by the cables and housings secured to the frame and rear wheel was culprit.

The resulting slight upward bend of the lower RapidFire shifter lever produced either non function overlap or random bad shifting when an odd thumb angle would incrementally be enough displacement to interfere with the upper button lever's thumb pad. We would use a Crescent wrench on the back of the grey plastic button where a horizontal reinforcing bar was formed to bend the end of the lever and button back down and out of interference range of the upper one. This only got us through the initial warranty from the bike company since most of our bikes went to the woods unlike 80% of the era nationally. We also didn't have room to store all of the built bikes that had this factory and shipment problem. 

Besides the very frequent shipping damage, those RadpidFire shifters were strategically placed to be kneed into the same condition. Not to say these were low end parts as they were OEM on $500-600 bikes, just that they were an evolutionary step which for me could go back into the primordial ooze. Bridgestone and Kona called the emperor naked this one and stuck with things that work, not the latest stuff foisted on new bike buyers to beta test.

That black plastic housing was about as weatherproof as a ragtop CJ Jeep in a car wash, i.e. not the slightest. Worse than without the covers since they collected and stored muck right at the pot metal toothed parts, springs and pawls. 

Do what you know and what's best for your friend with her input. and your efforts I'm all about losing those detestable shifters. Those shifters, on that bike (and some RockHoppers) sold many MB-6s to comparison shoppers at our store.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 1:04:09 PM UTC-5 Paul Clifton wrote:

[Paul Clifton]

Thanks Pam. I also think friction bar end shifters on Albatross bars is the most pleasurable way to shift. It just feels right to me. I'll take them with me and let her check them out.

If this bike works out, I'd love to send her up to Charlotte for one of your classes. She's in Atlanta, so not as close to Charlotte as Augusta, but it's still an easy drive. There are a few organizations that do similar classes in Atlanta, but I'd have to look them up again, and they don't happen very regularly. But she is in a good spot to bike commute a couple days a week, when the weather is nice and her butt gets used to a saddle. It would probably be 15 miles round trip, but 13 of that would be completely separated rail trail (the Beltline (if you've heard of it) - and not the busy part, but the pretty and still undeveloped part). I'd be pretty envious of anyone taking that cruise every day. She's said she'd like to do it, and I'll do what I can to facilitate.

Paul

[Paul Clifton]

Andy,

I'm glad to hear you say it. I've stripped a half dozen of these early-rapid-fire-era low-end MTBs, and the shifters have always felt just awful. I have tried to blast some of them clean with various kinds of penetrating lube, and it just really isn't worth it. There is some old stuff that's good, and I'll try to keep using it, but there's some old stuff that just doesn't hold up, and I'm happy to replace it.

I did come in to a set of these ST-M008, which actually feel quite good for vintage rapid fire shifters. I think my brother in law ran them on his Fat Chance in the late 90s. I should've tried to reuse these, but I forgot I had them until just now, and even so, I don't think they feel as crisp as newer designs.

Paul in AR

[Paul Clifton]

I thought y'all might like to see how the Clemified Hard Rock came out. I put Boscos instead of Albatross on because it seemed like it'd work better.

It's worth mentioning that the seat tube bottoms out with about 3 inches of post still showing. The means that the minimum saddle height (as is) is like 32" from the ground. So she won't be able to put her feet on the ground while sitting on the seat anyway. I thought about cutting the seat post down, and I still might. But if I cut off too much, she won't be able to get the seat up to her PBH minus 11 saddle height from the bottom bracket. So I figured I'd wait and let her ride it before I make any destructive modifications.

The stem has a similar problem. Between the minimum insertion mark and where the stem bottoms out is like 1 inch (because the head tube is so short). So I have it set up with a Technomic to get the bars high, but I will take a stem with a shorter quill in case we need to get them much lower. I'll also take the Albatross bars with me, in case the Boscos come back way too far.

But I rode it around to button everything up this morning, and it feels GREAT! Now just to get it half way across the country and see how it works for its intended rider.

Paul in AR

[DavidP]

Nice, Paul! Looks great. Let us know how she likes it.

[Joe Bernard]

It's so pretty! I love that year/color Hardrock. Well done! 

[Paul Clifton]

Thanks David and Joe,

I just remembered to ask ... any recommendations for cheap 26" wheel specific racks, rear mostly, but either I guess.

The 700c compatible racks I have around sit so far above the rear wheel that the seat basically goes all the way down on top of them :`(

Paul

[Joe Bernard]

Ibera is lower price brand I see a lot. Without the branding I've seen very similar racks as OE on new commuter bikes. 

[Joe Bernard]

Or someone here will find an old Blackburn in the garage that was on a mountain bike 20 years ago. There's gotta be a million of them out there!