Seeking advice - Sam Hillborne vs Atlantis

[Daniel Searson]

Hi everyone,

I'm glad I recently found this group, I am hoping you can help me out!

I am planning on ordering a Rivendell frameset in the near future (whenever they are in stock, I am patient). I am just having a hard time deciding what might be right for me between the Sam Hillborne and the Atlantis, mainly on the geometry.

I would be using the bike for a half-hour commute on road / bike paths a couple of times a week with panniers, and also for weekend rides of ~1-2 hours mostly on gravel roads. I want to build it up with drop bars and something around ~45mm tyres.

My PBH is 91cm and my previous drop bar bikes have had a ~60cm top tube. I am tall enough that I have never owned a road bike that is capable of getting the bars level with the saddle, even with a riser stem! My hope for a Rivendell is to set it up with drop bars that can actually be level with the saddle, and to have a bike that will be with me for life.

I have always LOVED the look of the Atlantis, especially with the extra rainbow top tube. The colour and the head badge are beautiful. For this reason alone it would be my first choice, however… my concern is that in my size (59 cm) the top tube length is 64cm which seems very long, like it would be too long for drop bars. I get the feeling that maybe the “new” Atlantis is more optimised for upright bars? Does anyone have recent experience with drops on the Atlantis?

Sam Hillborne is a beautiful looking frame too (in orange). The geometry seems to be more “standard” and it would fit my needs nicely. However I’m a little confused on size, the geometry charts on the Riv website lead me to believe there is a 58cm which would be my size, or possibly a 62cm which is the next size up. The text on the Sam Hillborne page suggests there is a 60cm model as the biggest - have they recently updated the sizing and geometry? 

I think I really want the Atlantis but am hoping for reassurance on the fit. Any light you can shed on this would be great!

Thanks

Daniel 

[dougP]

Daniel:

Rivendell frequently updates their geometries, and not all geos they have built are on the website.  While this group may be able to give you some ideas & insights, I'd suggest calling direct to discuss your specifics.  They are really nice people & easy to talk to.  When I bought my Atlantis, they were patient with all my fiddly issues.  As to which frame, I'm highly biased towards the Atlantis, & have never ridden a Hillborne, so I can't comment on any comparison.

dougP

[Drw]

I can't really help with sizing. I'm usually a couple sizes smaller than you. So just random thoughts...

At one time i had a sam and a hunqapillar. I eventually sold both for a musa atlantis to sort of split the bill. the hunq had what, for me, was a long top tube that made a traditional drop setup too stretched out. I got a 30cm stem from analog cycles and some shallow drops that made it workable. So i think there are ways around a slightly too long TT. The sam had a short enough top tube that i felt pretty cramped on anything but drop bars. In terms of ride, I did feel like the sam was the quickest of the 3, but I also had it set up more as a road bike. They were all exceptionally comfortable and sturdy bikes. 

In retrospect, i should have just kept the sam. my biking aligns pretty well with how you described yours and the atlantis is probably overbuilt for that purpose. I have dreams about doing more rough touring, but in reality I'm lucky to get out for a night every few months. Also, when i switched, the sam's all had sidepull brakes. Now that they have canti/v brakes, I especially think i should've just gotten a sam. 

That said, the Atlantis has huge tire clearances, which i really appreciate and would have a hard time leaving. 

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 8:07:24 AM UTC-7 daniel....@gmail.com wrote:

[Bill Lindsay]

In my opinion, you are correct to conclude that the latest Atlantis is intended to be used with upright bars.  Given your reported PBH, and your intent to run drop bars, I think your best choice will be a 60cm Hillborne.  My recommendation is you call Rivendell, tell them your PBH and let them confirm that a 60 Hillborne will be right for you, and let them tell you when those will be around for you to buy.  I suspect that during that call, when you ask about the Geometry Chart on the website, which lists a 58 and a 62, they'll tell you that's the old chart, and they should be able to give you the numbers you want for the 60.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 8:07:24 AM UTC-7 daniel....@gmail.com wrote:

[Joe Bernard]

Welcome Daniel!

Adding to - and throwing a wrench in - what others have said: Sizing by effective toptube/reach is also a way to go here with Atlantis. For instance I owned a current-gen 53cm that worked nicely with pullback bars, and think a 50 with drops would work for me, too. 

The question to ask Riv is if the 55cm Atlantis (61cm ETT) will still let you have the bars level with the saddle. You'll have notably more seatpost showing so I don't know the answer to this. Also you'll lose the rainbow tube so that may be a dealbreaker leading to buying the Sam. 

Joe Bernard

On Tuesday, June 8, 2021 at 8:07:24 AM UTC-7 daniel....@gmail.com wrote:

[Ben Mihovk]

Hey Daniel!

We have roughly the same the PBH and I have a 59cm Atlantis. I use the Choco bar, but I put my hands on the bends a lot on long flat stretches where I can kind of let it loose...so my hands are approximately up where the hoods would be if I used drop bars. SUPER comfy, no doubt about it. I think it'd be all about getting the correct length of stem. I have the longest one b/c the Chocos sweep back a lot. With drops, their stubbiest stem might do the trick for me. 

If you want an Atlantis, take Daniel's advice and call up Riv. I'm sure they can suggest a stem/bar combo that would put you in a perfect position.

And also...I use my Atlantis for commuting, lightly loaded, and for longer (hour plus) joy rides on pavement. Love it to death for all of those things. I know there was a post on the old website's blug with a really tall fellow in Montana who rode his drop-bar 64cm Atlantis on gravel a lot. All-rounder it is! 

Have fun,

Ben in Omaha 

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[Ben Mihovk]

And by take Daniel's advice, I meant take Doug's advice :) 

[exliontamer]

Just chiming in in case you end up finding a used older one. I have a 91pbh as well and the 61cm is perfect with drops and a normal to short stem for me. The standover height by the time I put 50s on it is exactly where it needs to be. That said, I have zero experience with the new ones but I think Riv has turned their collective backs on drop bars. 

[Joe Bernard]

For clarity because the new list member may not be aware, the older Atlantis made in Japan and then USA is sized quite differently. 

[exliontamer]

Good call Joe! The older ones are sized more traditionally which is part of the reason drops work on them so well.

[J S]

Daniel, I bought an Atlantis last summer and sold it in a month or less.  For me the long chain stays were not to my liking.  I was lucky to find a new Sam at a dealer before Riv got their last shipment in.  I really like the Sam Hillborne and run it with 48mm tires.  It rides and handles great.  I use Choco bars and sit at about 50-60 degrees, so not bolt upright, and I hold the bars either on top of the break levers or further up maybe close to the hoods on a drop bar.  You should, if possible try to ride them, I was unable too before purchasing any of the Rivendells I have bought over the years.  

If there is a list member near you who has one  I bet they be happy to help you.  

Good luck

Joel

[Michael Williams]

Daniel,  the new Appaloosas are being released soon.  Maybe a release this week?  You gotta be on it though, recent runs of Riv frames tend to go fast!   There’s a 60cm in this run,  which might fit your PBH well and it’s a little shorter in the TT  than the Atlantis which would/ might allow you you to ride drops; and a chainstay that’s in between the length of Atlantis and Hillborne and has a sloping TT which will allow you to get the bars up and has tire clearance between what the Atlantis and Hillborne will allow.  I think the frames will be orange and mermaid ,  which are great colors.   Take a look at the site or always give them a call. Every time I’ve called,  they love talkin bikes.    -Mike

Sent from my iPhone

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[Daniel Searson]

Hello everyone,

Thank you for the welcome and for the detailed and thought out replies! Your advice is much appreciated. It sounds like it would be a good idea to talk with Rivendell directly, which I have been meaning to do as well. Its good to also get some honest feedback from people with direct experience. I think based on some of your replies I would be leaning towards the Sam Hillborne, I certainly don't think I'd be disappointed.

Michael - the Appaloosa did cross my mind as well, thanks for the suggestion. For some reason it doesn't resonate with me as much, perhaps it's the lack of rainbow top tube! I think all the photos I've seen of them are upright bar builds, so I can't really picture the frame with drop bars.

One thing I didn't mention is that I live in Australia, so Rivendells are super rare here. In fact, I've only ever seen one in the flesh (a Platypus, coincidentally). There is a bike shop here in Adelaide who have recently started importing Rivendells which has got me thinking about all of this. 

Cheers

Daniel

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[Jason Fuller]

I certainly don't think you can do wrong between the two, given your riding plans, and the Appaloosa would do the trick well too!  If you're really attached to the Atlantis for its color and extra tube, I would personally hold out for that - it's a lifetime bike right, might as well get exactly what you dreamt of!  The longer top tube can be accommodated thanks to recent advances in very short stems - I'd start with a 5cm long Tallux, which is what I run on my Hillborne because I like a shorter reach with my drops, and if it's still too long you can get a Crust BJ stem in 26.0 clamp that has less than 30mm of reach.  Heck, with a quill-to-threadless adapter, there are also zero reach options from Analog. 

This might sound like a band-aid for poor fit, but I don't feel that's the case at all - this isn't a typical road bike, and the long frame / short stem combo gets the front wheel further out in front of you for better off-road handling and comfort.  Basically, it allows you to run drops but keep your center of gravity similar to where it would be with flat bars, for better mixed-terrain handling.  Also, since this is a lifetime bike hopefully, the Atlantis will suit upright bars very nicely if your aging body requires it in the (hopefully distant) future!  

Also, the Atlantis will leave more options for you to go bigger or smaller on tires - you don't have to use all that tire clearance, but it's nice to know it's there. 

[Joe Bernard]

Here's my first-gen light blue Appaloosa with drops, which unfortunately didn't get very good pics before I swapped the bars out. Never shoulda sold this one. 

[Daniel Searson]

Thank you Jason -- I think you've just about convinced me that the Atlantis is the way to go! You are right that it is a dream bike, there is something so different about them as well compared to anything else out there. Good point on the front wheel positioning, modern mountain geometry has certainly gone for the longer TT / shorter stem combo for that reason as well. 

I'm a serial bike tinkerer (aren't we all??) so I'd probably be likely to change to and from upright bars and back again anyway....

And thanks for the photos Joe, that is a lovely Appaloosa as well! 

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