A Lesson: When buying a vehicle that will transport a Clem, measure twice and buy once.

[LeRoy]

When I bought my Clem 59 in the Spring of 2018, I carried it back from New Jersey to Michigan inside a very sub-compact Jeep Renegade, along with three guys and enough luggage and gear for a long weekend. Granted, the Clem was reduced to its smallest sub-units: frame, wheels, handlebar, fenders, seat, racks, etc. But it all fit. Inside. And so did three grown men + gear. This was all fine for a one-time transport but not conducive to regularly carting the Clem around.

Earlier this year, I did a trial fit of the Clem in my wife's somewhat bigger Jeep Compass. With the bike's front wheel removed and the car's front passenger seat all the way forward, the Clem was a very tight fit. Still indoors, but human occupancy in the front passenger seat wasn't going to happen. The result was one person and one bike safely on board. Clearly, I needed a bigger vehicle.

So, as I shopped for a replacement for the Renegade, I figured that moving up the Jeep food chain one notch - to the Cherokee model - would result in a better Clem-fit. Nope. Who would have thunk that the bigger-on-the-outside Cherokee was actually smaller-on-the-inside? It would barely accommodate the Clem! The bike fits less well in the Cherokee than the Compass. It's certainly more difficult to load and unload. Of course, discovering this occurred after leasing the new Cherokee.

The lesson is, apparently, to take one's bike along when car-shopping. Or bring the test ride home long enough to test-fit the bike. Or, to borrow from the old carpenter's adage, measure twice, buy once.

Other than that, I really like both the Clem and the new Cherokee. But the end result is that the Jeep will be getting a trailer hitch and the Clem will be riding outdoors, on the back of the Cherokee.

Anyone else run into a similar doesn't-quite-fit dilemma? ...or have a clever solution that hasn't occurred to me?

[ascpgh]

I wish I'd taken pictures of everyone around when I rode my bike to the dealership where I bought my wife's last car. It was a CPO 328i X-Drive and no one could cipher that I rode a bike there to purchase and drive a car home. They probably couldn't cipher that it was a decision parameter either. 

I folded down the back seats down, put my 62 cm fendered Rambouillet right in, collected my paperwork and drove away. 

Andy Cheatham 

Pittsburgh

[James Warren]

Atlantis held up against the truck bed. Was part of the buying process almost exactly 9 years ago.

I’ll bet these practices are more common than we realize.

On Oct 30, 2019, at 7:06 AM, ascpgh <asc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I wish I'd taken pictures of everyone around when I rode my bike to the dealership where I bought my wife's last car. It was a CPO 328i X-Drive and no one could cipher that I rode a bike there to purchase and drive a car home. They probably couldn't cipher that it was a decision parameter either. 

I folded down the back seats down, put my 62 cm fendered Rambouillet right in, collected my paperwork and drove away. 

Andy Cheatham 

Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 10:33:51 PM UTC-4, LeRoy wrote:

When I bought my Clem 59 in the Spring of 2018, I carried it back from New Jersey to Michigan inside a very sub-compact Jeep Renegade, along with three guys and enough luggage and gear for a long weekend. Granted, the Clem was reduced to its smallest sub-units: frame, wheels, handlebar, fenders, seat, racks, etc. But it all fit. Inside. And so did three grown men + gear. This was all fine for a one-time transport but not conducive to regularly carting the Clem around.

Earlier this year, I did a trial fit of the Clem in my wife's somewhat bigger Jeep Compass. With the bike's front wheel removed and the car's front passenger seat all the way forward, the Clem was a very tight fit. Still indoors, but human occupancy in the front passenger seat wasn't going to happen. The result was one person and one bike safely on board. Clearly, I needed a bigger vehicle.

So, as I shopped for a replacement for the Renegade, I figured that moving up the Jeep food chain one notch - to the Cherokee model - would result in a better Clem-fit. Nope. Who would have thunk that the bigger-on-the-outside Cherokee was actually smaller-on-the-inside? It would barely accommodate the Clem! The bike fits less well in the Cherokee than the Compass. It's certainly more difficult to load and unload. Of course, discovering this occurred afterleasing the new Cherokee.

The lesson is, apparently, to take one's bike along when car-shopping. Or bring the test ride home long enough to test-fit the bike. Or, to borrow from the old carpenter's adage, measure twice, buy once.

Other than that, I really like both the Clem and the new Cherokee. But the end result is that the Jeep will be getting a trailer hitch and the Clem will be riding outdoors, on the back of the Cherokee.

Anyone else run into a similar doesn't-quite-fit dilemma? ...or have a clever solution that hasn't occurred to me?

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[Curtis McKenzie]

Here is my bike and car story.

After two weeks of cycling around Washington state I rode Amtrak home.  Arriving in San Diego at just after midnight with my wife kindly picking me up at the station.  To my surprise I do not see our pick up truck.  She drove the Subaru Outback.  Not a big deal except for my 68 cm Bantam bicycle and bags.  After taking 30 seconds removing the bags from the bicycle and folding down the seats of the vehicle the bicycle fit very nicely in the back of the Outback.  We have been impressed the Outback and after that experience we think the vehicle is pretty cool (but not quite as cool as a bicycle).

Cheers,

Curtis

--

[Tom Wyland]

It's funny there are websites and car reviewers that show you how a child seat fits in the back of the car.  Why not bikes?  When I sold my Dutch Cargo Bike the nice couple who came to purchase it had a sedan with a trunk.  The entire fork and front wheel were sticking out the trunk. Most of my bikes don't ride *in* cars, except for my trusty Dahon folding bike.

[Lynn Haas]

I bought a new car last year, and the salesperson said that he had seen an amazing variety of things brought in to check for fit. The Honda dealer even knew what models would fit a bike standing on the front fork. 

We can get two bikes, camping/roadtrip gear, our dog + her bed and crate, and two humans in our Subaru Crosstrek if I remove all four bike wheels, lower or remove the seatposts, stand both bikes on their heads, put mine in handlebars first, and then put my husband's bike in handlebars last. I think once I might have taken off a front fender. At work we routinely turn handlebars to cram bikes in tighter, and we used to have 75 bikes with detachable pedals. These days we are putting foam koozies on bike pedals so we can cram the bikes together for transport and not have the pedals scratch or damage the bikes.

When I had a Surly LHT and a Honda Civic sedan, I was fine lowering the rear seats, taking off the front wheel, and easing the whole thing in the trunk... until I switched from the stock bars to Nitto Noodles. That extra 1" or so of flare wouldn't fit no matter how I turned the front end. 

Repair shops tend to be surprised when I pull my bike out of the car and ride away while the car gets worked on.

[Eric Norris]

I'm still holding on to my Honda Element, which is by far the best small-ish bike transport vehicle I have owned. Full-sized bikes roll in the back with the wheels on and handlebars and seat at full height ( I ride 57cm bikes; YMMV if you ride a much taller bike). No need to disassemble anything, and I can easily fit two bikes and riders in the back.

Unfortunately, Honda stopped making the Element a few years ago, so if you’re looking for a brand new vehicle you need to explore other options.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

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[Joe Bernard]

LeRoy, I feel your pain. I don't have a similar story, but I know that Cherokee model and it's somewhat notorious for having less cargo capacity than people expect out of that model. The Compass has a "box with wheels on the ends" style like Honda Fit, whereas the Cherokee - a new design on a new FIAT platform - is rather compromised for the swoopy bodywork. But it sure is pretty, they sell a ton of them.

[Paul Richardson]

62 Ram in a 328i?!?    that is amazing.

We inherited a 2006 Honda Civic hybrid whose back seats do not even fold down.  That kinda engineering oughta be illegal.  For bike transport, both wheels have to come off, and the entire backseat is off limits to passengers.  Our next auto will be held to a higher standard, for sure.

paul

takoma park, md.

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 7:06:14 AM UTC-7, ascpgh wrote:

I wish I'd taken pictures of everyone around when I rode my bike to the dealership where I bought my wife's last car. It was a CPO 328i X-Drive and no one could cipher that I rode a bike there to purchase and drive a car home. They probably couldn't cipher that it was a decision parameter either. 

I folded down the back seats down, put my 62 cm fendered Rambouillet right in, collected my paperwork and drove away.

LOL. A lot of people are surprised that most small-to-medium sized SUVs aren't much bigger (if at all) than typical station wagons. I had use of a late model MB E-class station wagon before, and my bikes go in without needing to remove any wheel (important if you have fenders), with the rear seats folded. But station wagons aren't cool. The largest enclosed hauler is a minivan; those swallow bikes whole and still have space for the kitchen sink. 

A "clever" solution is to leverage that tow hitch you may have, and get a nice bike rack.

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 10:42:33 AM UTC-7, Paul Richardson wrote:

We inherited a 2006 Honda Civic hybrid whose back seats do not even fold down.  That kinda engineering oughta be illegal.  For bike transport, both wheels have to come off, and the entire backseat is off limits to passengers.  Our next auto will be held to a higher standard, for sure.

I think the rear seats on Civic hybrids don't fold down because of the battery. Certainly, non-hybrid Civic back seats can fold (option, alas…).

[Dorothy C]

When I had to drop our 2 seater convertible Audi at the shop for some work recently, I found I could fit my 47cm Roadini in the trunk with the wheels off, one in the trunk under the frame, and one in the passenger well, providing I held the trunk down with a bungee cord. The most fun is when the receptionist starts to apologize that the shuttle service is very busy, and you tell her you are riding your bike home.

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Such a bummer about the Clem not fitting in the cargo of the Jeep! Well, there is always the hitch rack option. I do have a Saris that works beautifully, in case you needed a recommendation.

I have a Honda Odyssey that I swear by. I’ve got two sons so I feel like I have an excuse to drive a minivan, but when they are gone I may still be driving one because they are so good for bikes. Once you’ve had all the practicality and comfort a van offers, it’s hard to get the SUV which costs more and gives you less. Of everything. Except cool factor.

With the 3rd row stowed in the floor (easy), I can fit my 52 Clementine in the back at a diagonal. I do have to slam the Bosco bars, though or the bike is too tall. Not sure what a 59 would be like! I routinely drive around with both boys’ bikes in the back, and one is a 45 Clem H with the bars jacked.

Enjoyed reading everyone’s responses!

[Ann L]

I brought my Appaloosa to the dealership when I bought my Mini Cooper and let them know that the sale of the car was contingent on the bike fitting in back.  It took some maneuvering, but with the front wheel off and the passenger seat pulled all the way forward the bike will fit.  It should be noted that I have the 4 door model and the back seat fold down completely flat.

[Glen]

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 11:42:33 AM UTC-6, Paul Richardson wrote:

62 Ram in a 328i?!?    that is amazing.

I've fit my 64cm Ram and my wife's 54cm Bianchi along with 5 days worth of luggage in my 328i wagon, all below the window line with their wheels still on.

[Joe Bernard]

I can slide a 52 Clem through the trunk with rear seats folded down on a '17 Impala, front wheel off..it works but it's kind of a hassle. What I need is a minivan like Leah's, but I can't bring myself to drive one 😬

[Eric Daume]

When I bought a Mini back in 2004 (the new original 3 door, S of course) I checked that my XL Klein Palomino could fit. I think I had to remove both wheels, and maybe the seat...

I bought a used tandem recently, which I was able to fit in the back of my Accord with both wheels off. 

But I still need to justify a Bike Friday somehow. 

Eric

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[REC (Roberta)]

This is the reason that I didn't buy a Honda Civic Hybrid.  I ended up with a VW Jetta Hybrid, whose batteries form a shelf behind the back seat, but the seat does fold down and the opening is tall enough to put the bike through. 

[Nick Payne]

I remember that about 30 years ago a friend bought a Toyota Supra. He said that the salesman was rather bemused, because when he first looked at the vehicle, he drove to the dealership, and after the initial inspection/drive, he said to the salesman: "I'll come back tomorrow on my bike, and if it can fit in the back without removing the wheels, I'll buy the car". And it did fit (with the rear seats folded down), and he bought the car. It probably helped that he was fairly short and rode small frames. In fact, on one occasion we drove up to Sydney to ride the state championships, and we could fit both our bikes inside, though we had to remove the front wheels to get both bikes inside.

Nick

[ascpgh]

328i sedan. The "illegal" engineering part was how that was part of the "winter package" option group. Despite a pass-through in the armrest recess for one pair of skis, the seatbacks had to drop to be able to fit two sets of skis. That it required rationalization of that magnitude to justify making the car as useful as it was with that feature is even more marginal. To fit a bike you had to have a heated steering wheel, deicing side view mirrors, etc. Hope no one in the sunny climes needs to fit a bike in their sedan. 

Second that Outback vote. The BMW is gone, the older Outback stayed because of its versatility (and service expenses that didn't feel like a real estate closing).

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 1:42:33 PM UTC-4, Paul Richardson wrote:

[jeffrey kane]

Personally, I LOVE station wagons .... and I think, cool is what you make it. We've been in various V-Series Volvo wagons for the past 22 years. The only bike that doesn't slide in whole into the back with the rear seats folded down is my wife's ridiculously long Cheviot. For that land yacht, I have to use the roof rack.

It's new car time in our house though ... the current (2007) wagon is getting the boot and currently there's bit of a debate as to whether we're going to switch brands before we're both rolling around in wheelchairs! I don't see a minivan in our future, though (my ego might be too fragile for that) but I also couldn't be less enthused when looking at the current crop of "crossover" SUV's. Most, as noted here already aren't any bigger than our wagons ... most, in fact, are smaller! Unfortunately, true full size wagons are few and far between here in the USA these days.

I also haven't had a car without a roof rack in over 25 years now. Practically everything ends up on top at some point: paddle boards, sailboats, skis, bikes, furniture, and of course, christmas trees. I find it funny that most car salesmen aren't prepared for our questions about what will fit and where ... it seems like a lot of folks buy those big ol' SUV's and drive 'em around full of air ....

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 10:33:51 PM UTC-4, LeRoy wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/31/19 8:01 AM, 'jeffrey kane' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
> Personally, I LOVE station wagons .... and I think, cool is what you
> make it. We've been in various V-Series Volvo wagons for the past 22
> years. The only bike that doesn't slide in whole into the back with
> the rear seats folded down is my wife's ridiculously long Cheviot. For
> that land yacht, I have to use the roof rack.
>
> It's new car time in our house though ... the current (2007) wagon is
> getting the boot and currently there's bit of a debate as to whether
> we're going to switch brands before we're both rolling around in
> wheelchairs! I don't see a minivan in our future, though (my ego might
> be too fragile for that) but I also couldn't be less enthused when
> looking at the current crop of "crossover" SUV's. Most, as noted here
> already aren't any bigger than our wagons ... most, in fact, are
> smaller! Unfortunately, true full size wagons are few and far between
> here in the USA these days.

Sadly true, but the V90 will do the job for you.  Not sure about the new
V60, the old one didn't have enough room inside.

>
> I also haven't had a car without a roof rack in over 25 years now.
> Practically everything ends up on top at some point: paddle boards,
> sailboats, skis, bikes, furniture, and of course, christmas trees. I
> find it funny that most car salesmen aren't prepared for our questions
> about what will fit and where ... it seems like a lot of folks buy
> those big ol' SUV's and drive 'em around full of air ....

A friend of mine has a Rav 4 with a roof rack. He also carries a step
ladder to get up there.

I switched to wagons after my crash in 2003 that broke my shoulder,
reducing my range of motion enough so as to make use of a roof rack
impossible without a step ladder.

--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

[David Bivins]

Hear hear on station wagons. When our son was born 11 years ago, I did the research and ended up choosing a used 2004 VW Passat Wagon. It has a ridiculous amount of cargo space. My Clem slides in fairly easily with the rear seats down, and I also bring my Clem to my VW mechanic's when I need to leave the car for service. It's just such a practical vehicle. Apparently it has some sort of cachet with the young folks, too. I was outside near my car one day recently (we park on the street in Brooklyn) and there was a trio of stylish young men admiring the car. I went to open the door and one of them said "Is this your car? Niiiiice. 2004, right?" They all nodded their approval. It made me feel better about the "beausage" which is more like "abusage" that the body's taken from being on the street all these years.

[jeffrey kane]

Good point on the height. The thought of needing step ladder and an articulated rear rack for bikes makes me crazy. 

I checked with VW, btw. The Passat has already been discontinued. I should also note that both Audi and BMW still offer their full size wagons to the European markets. Heck, even Mercedes Benz offers three engine packages to the Canadian market for their E450 wagon.

We're nutty here in the USA.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 10/31/19 9:04 AM, 'jeffrey kane' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

Good point on the height. The thought of needing step ladder and an articulated rear rack for bikes makes me crazy. 

I checked with VW, btw. The Passat has already been discontinued.

Not just the Passat.  My VW Golf Alltrack and the FWD Golf Sportwagen have also just bee discontinued.

I should also note that both Audi and BMW still offer their full size wagons to the European markets. Heck, even Mercedes Benz offers three engine packages to the Canadian market for their E450 wagon.

We're nutty here in the USA.

I agree.

[Paul Richardson]

FWIW I didn't realize initially that 328i is the model number of both the wagon and the sedan.  So I was imagining sedan+ram and really freaking out!

[David]

I picked up a 2018 VW Golf Alltrack and it easily takes a bike without any wheel removal, etc. And it was available with manual transmission which I’m not ready to give up yet at 68. I am having a trailer hitch installed as I write this as my brother has a hitch rack that will hold 4 bikes when I need it. Check out and grab one fast if you’re interested as VW is stopping importing them. Unfortunately everybody is going SUV.

David Hays
Williamsville, New York

Sent from my iPhone

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[ascpgh]

Paul, my original post of fitting my 62cm Ram in the 328i was a sedan!

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

[Paul Richardson]

mind blown, re/blown.  

[RichS]

Have to give a nod to the Honda Fit. I can “fit” either my Sam or Atlantis without removing the front wheel while keeping the passenger seat intact.

Best,
Rich in ATL

[Dorothy C]

Our usual bike carrying is via a Thule hitch mount 2 bike rack on the back of a 2009 VW New Beetle. I have Rivs but my wife prefers her ebike. We have discussed trading in from 2 cars, to one electric between us, but so far we haven’t found anything that can take a hitch mount bike rack

[The Snag]

I can put my 62cm Appaloosa in our Honda Element standing up and without taking anything off. With another bike, and a 80lb dog, and two people with camping gear. No problem. And it's AWD...

[Joe Bernard]

A friend of mine has an Element, as does Mark @ Riv. It's a perfect little storage container on wheels, and I recall that at least some models have an interior you can hose down. Nifty!

[Eric Norris]

Hosing down an Element is an urban myth. When I bought mine, they made me sign a form acknowledging that I knew that it would damage the car. Turns out they’re not waterproof from the inside.

They *are* easy to clean, however. Lots of plastic and rubber, not a speck of carpeting.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

On Oct 31, 2019, at 6:56 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

A friend of mine has an Element, as does Mark @ Riv. It's a perfect little storage container on wheels, and I recall that at least some models have an interior you can hose down. Nifty!  

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[Eamon Nordquist]

This is the root of why I can’t have a long chainstay Rivendell bike. Without getting a much larger vehicle with much worse fuel economy, I cannot ever transport a bike that long (especially with fenders). I have an 89cm pbh, so I’m definitely in the large size range. A 59 Clem is not feasible on the public transportation here either.

I am sure they ride great, and almost got a 59 Clem anyway, but realized if I couldn’t put it in the car ever, or the racks on local buses/trains, it would seriously limit my usage.

Eamon
Seattle

[Joe Bernard]

That urban myth was started by car magazines in road tests, and I seem to recall a Honda ad with a hose in it. My guess? Some fool thought they could aim a hose at the dashboard and lawyers got involved 👏👏👏

[Bill Lindsay]

My 'big' vehicle is a Honda Odyssey.  That's what I use when I'm transporting high schoolers and their bikes to team practices.  I have just a simple 2 bike hitch rack, but a couple of the other coaches have similar vans with 4 slots on top plus 4 more on the hitch rack in back for a total of 8 bikes.  It's pretty awesome.

More relevant to Rivendell, if I fold down the back seats, and remove the middle row of seats, and fold down the console between the two front seats, I can fit my HubbuHubbuH tandem fully inside the vehicle.  The front wheel is removed and the bike does not have fenders.  My HHH is a size small, though, but it has front and rear bosco bars and a Nitto Big front rack and huge Wald basket, so it's still a pretty huge machine.

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[ascpgh]

The Isuzu Trooper II brought the bare utility concept interior to people’s attention. I’m sure there was some soundproofing under the vinyl flooring, but driving down a chip seal country road wouldn’t give much evidence.

My roommate had one and it was utilized to the millimeter of its proposition. Drove one side up onto two high railroad ties to hose it out. Sometimes the mud got in the way of the pedals working fully. Those hosing our warnings probably came from people who’d never seen a vehicle used as that one. Roof rack but with the seats folded down a couple of bikes went in whole.

[ascpgh]

(Got away without my signature block)

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 8:26:30 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:

That urban myth was started by car magazines in road tests, and I seem to recall a Honda ad with a hose in it. My guess? Some fool thought they could aim a hose at the dashboard and lawyers got involved 👏👏👏

People do the darndest things. The owner of this Chevy Tahoe hosed down the interior every four years to clean it, leading to mucho rust on the floorboards. Yeah, don't do that even without carpet, unless you know it's designed for it (e.g., there are drain holes at the lowest points).