Rambouillet steering when front loaded

[Luke Volkmann]

Hi all,

I'm curious to get the opinions of those who have carried front weight on their Rambouillet. How does it impact the steering, do you like it?

Thanks,

Luke

[Patrick Moore]

IME with 5 Rivendells — Ram, 3 custom roads, and a first edition Sam — at least these Rivs prefer rear loads to front loads. 

IME again, you can add up to, say 6-7 lb total including bag to the front in a well-attached bar bag without unduly hurting steering, but more than that does degrade handling. Again, IME, and IMO and as to my tastes for handling.

OTOH, my Rivs did handle considerable weights in the back, on stiff — Tubus and custom — rear racks pretty well, as well as in unsupported saddlebags strapped really tightly directly to the rails of my Flites. As always, YMMAWV.

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Patrick Moore

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[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

I carry fair amount of weight on the front of my Rambouillet, often my lunch, extra water, a laptop, etc.. and I like it. Of course it does impact steering, but I find it calming. I’m not battling with it to get where I want to go. Here’s it with a big BagsXBird on some 54cm noodles, filled and happy.

I made my own rear rack and it’s plenty stiff, but I prefer the feel of a centered front load to using the rack. So unless it’s a skateboard or something similarly too large, it’s up front.

-Kai

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I rode with my Ram using a Mark's rack up front (using clamps on the front fork rather than using eyelets) with an Acorn randonneuring bag up front. I probably had up to 10 pounds up front and had no problems with the changes in handling.

Toshi in Oakland, CA

[Corwin Zechar]

Hi Luke -

I have a Ram and a Quickbeam. I have never carried a load on the Ram, but I have a Platrack and Platsack mounted on the Quickbeam.

I have noticed that the Quickbeam and the Ram have very similar geometries and the ride and handling are virtually indistinguishable (IMHO).

I have carried many loads on the Platrack. Cannot recall any loads greater than 20 lbs. The handling/steering is affected - but not significantly (IMHO) and not in a bad way.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Corwin

[ascpgh]

I have a bigger Rambouillet and without a load on the front it does have some idiosyncrasies that come with the Rivendell geometry and handling, specifically at lower speeds on steeper climbs at lower cadences. The trail dimension presents a bigger lever arm to the rider, load and rest of the bike for changing the direction of the front wheel. Steve P. wrote of this and his Ram. Front wheel flop is accentuated by more mass and more trail but is moderated by speed. 

I got my Rambouillet specifically for joining a group riding the Trans-Am east to west after convincing the others to do so in a light/sport touring or credit card format to prevent having to buy new bikes and a ton of gear for a self supported effort. I did it with my Carradice Nelson Long Flap saddle bag on a bagman support, spares and tools in a small seat wedge under the saddle and three water bottles on the frame. I was over the recommended load for the bike but with the rear bias it wasn't a handful. In fact, on the descent from the Blue Ridge Parkway I was amazed by the control and confidence it provided.

On the 2012 Riv Rally I added a Velo Orange rando bag to my Rambouillet for some more space. The ride was on the Great Allegheny Passage so the terrain was not so steep The "climb" from Cumberland to Big Savage Mountain while sustained follows an old railway line so it lacks true steepness you come across riding along roads. The tendency of load and the alternating leaning off center of pedaling would have an amplified effect on the front wheel directional stability. What's geometrically good for stability down the road at normal speeds can be destabilizing at low speeds and cadence. The Riv Rally morning riding out of Cumberland was not stellar for the stability of steering on the 25 mile climb but at least we weren't in traffic. A lot of anticipatory effort required to prevent/overcome self-steering zig-zagging.

Even just sitting there reasonably upright the front bag initiated a big old flop. Not how I rode across the country.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

 

[Patrick Moore]

Others have said that they don’t mind front loads in bar bags on their Rams; Andy did notice it; I too noticed it. I daresay it comes down to what a particular rider “noticing threshold” — at what point a handling quality becomes first, noticeable, and then, annoying. And I would also guess that it might have something to do with your riding position. I set up my bikes with a rearward saddle position and knee well behind pedal spindle, which would leave the front end light except that I use drops and so put more weight on the front wheel than with a swept back bar. OTOH, when I’m climbing seated, I’m shoved back with hands lightly resting on the ramps.

I haven’t noticed a tendency to wander when climbing slowly thus seated, at least on my various custom roads and on the Ram, at least, if there is a tendency, it was negligible; where I did notice it was on the first edition Sam, where yes, indeed, it was annoying. All bikes unladen in front and with and without rear loads. But I daresay that adding 10 lb to the front of these road bikes would indeed exacerbate the tendency to the point of annoyance.

I did noticed even very modest loads on the front of my ’99 Joe Starck gofast, though this was with one of those very old-fashioned bar bags that uses a steel bracket that slips over the bar and under the stem, with prongs that fit into sleeves on the side of the bag; thus holding the bag an inch or two out from the bar. But I had only 3-5 lb in the bag and it was very noticeable, tho’ not to the point of intolerable, just annoying.

At any rate, for my Rivendell road bikes and others modeled on them, I much prefer rear loads. I did ride 2 low-trail bikes with front loads and didn’t care for their handling. The first was a Kogswell Porteur (I think that was the model; at any rate, it was low trail and had a big platform rack on front to which I attached some medium laden panniers, perhaps 30 lb total. Unexceptionable handling, but I much prefer the handling of my Rivs and didn’t take a shine to it.

The second low trail bike I owned and rode for 18 or 24 months: an otherwise lovely 1958 Rene Herse (the old builder, not the modern company) with custom front and rear racks. That bike fit perfectly from the first ride and was one of those rare gems that consistently in all conditions encourage you to ride 1 tooth smaller in back, but here too I just didn’t care for the handling. And it didn’t take well the sometimes heavy grocery loads I carry, either in front or in the rear. Even unladen I found the handling, what, dull or unexciting, the opposite of that signature Grantian handling of supreme straight light stability with unerring turn-in in corners. So I sold it on.

Different strokes for different folks, as the refrain went from that archly annoying song by Sly and the Family Stone. But man! I do love me the handling of my mid-trail (I guess) Rivendell road bikes, unladen or with rear loads! — that Sam notwithstanding.

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[Ted Durant]

On Sunday, July 20, 2025 at 3:52:03 PM UTC-5 Luke Volkmann wrote:

Hi all,

I'm curious to get the opinions of those who have carried front weight on their Rambouillet. How does it impact the steering, do you like it?

It has been nice to see a few different experiences described here, some of them _very_ experienced! My experience with Herons (almost identical to Rams) has been similar to what others have described. There is a fair amount of flop inherent in the front end geometry, which is exacerbated by a load on the handlebars. On the other hand, putting some weight into low-riders slows down the steering response and mitigates that effect while moving. Of course, when the bike is standing still, weight in low-riders will still induce flop, but not as much as weight up higher. I very much prefer carrying a handlebar bag for day-long rides, for the convenience of grabbing stuff while rolling. I didn't mind the change in steering feel on my Heron; it rarely showed up (not much sustained steep climbing around here) and so wasn't a big trade-off for the convenience.

I also had a strange effect on two Heron road bikes, where carrying both a handlebar bag and a saddle bag induced shimmy. I was able to replicate it between two frames. I haven't heard of anyone else having the same issue.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

[Luke Volkmann]

Thank you all for your input! 

The background for my question is that I was gifted a Kogswell Model P (not P/R) frameset recently. To my understanding, it's nearly a copy of the Ram. I'm going to put it together for my sweetie, who likes riding with weight on the front of her bike. So, before investing in a new rack for the front, was curious to know what people had thought of their Ram loaded in this way.

[Corwin Zechar]

You wanna talk about heavy steering?

Try riding a Bilenky Viewpoint. The stoker sits directly over the front [20 inch] wheel. My stoker weighs about 150 lbs. Makes for steering that is both heavy AND quick!

Regards,

Corwin

[Patrick Moore]

I had lowrider bosses brazed onto my Sam and installed a Tubus Tara, and to test it I attached a pair of Sports Packers and loaded them up with 2 1-gallon milk jugs full of water in each pannier — about 35 lb total I think. Absolutely no overquick steering here! I could hardly make the bike turn; it just wanted to keep on going straight. It’s a good thing I tested this on a flat road. 

OTOH, when I put ~56 lb of cinderblocks — 2 large ones — into the Wald Newsboy I installed with OEM struts and clamps onto a 1980s Schwinn Voyageur, I couldn’t keep the wheel straight. That experiment ended in about 50 feet.

For the record, I’ve carried close to 30 lb balanced in low riders on other Rivs (26” wheel 2003 Curt and the Matthews geometrical clone, and while sure, 28 lb is 8 lb less than 35 lb, the steering was acceptable for short return trips from the grocery store, even though it was indeed too “stiff” and slow for fast chicanes.

[Piaw Na]

During a recent tour, I had a chance to test ride a fellow tourist's custom seven with front load. He claimed it steered better. I got on the bike and nope, it steered super slow to me. I think front loads are a personal preference. If you're the kind of person who thinks your bike steers too fast, you'll like a front load. If you do ultra-marathons and get too tired to steer the bike after 20 hours of riding, you'll like a front load because it slows down your steering and you don't have to concentrate hard to keep the bike straight. I've never considered any of my bikes too quick to steer, and what others consider "too quick" to me feels just right. By contrast, I dislike the way mountain bikes steer on the road (too slow!), and most Treks, gravel bikes, and hybrids steer like a cow to me. I also never do ultra-marathons. Therefore I avoid front loads like the plague. I guess I grew up with slow steering bikes and when I got my first really nice adult bike the fact that the bike was responsive was a revelation to me, and I never want to go back to the unresponsive steering like the bikes I grew up with. Ultimately it's a matter of preference.

[Patrick Moore]

49 lb, 33 rear and 13 front, after a massive shopping expedition to Sprout’s. I’ve carried more in front.

The bike handled ponderously, but given that I had it designed to ride like a nice sporty road bike when unladen, but to be manageable with heavy f + r grocery loads, it didn’t feel too bad and I was able to thread a very tight walking-speed connection between a road and a sidewalk to reach a crosswalk over a 4-lane (sh*tty local bike infrastructure, but this was just one little intersection), most junctions aren’t as bad) without anxiety.

I’ve carried up to 40 lb in the rear, but this bike like most of my road Rivs prefers to start loading the front after you reach 30 or 35 lb in back; but in lowriders, not handlebar bags or baskets.

[Patrick Moore]

Another 49 lb load. With 2 bottles must have made an extensive detour to the Sprout’s in Corrales instead of a shorter detour to the Coors Blvd Sprout’s 1 mile away. Same point: my Rivs with front lowrider loads handle OK but like rear loads better.

Bike is the geometrical clone of that 2003 Curt Goodrich Riv Road custom.