Steep but short hills on 2003 Custom using S3X hub

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Patrick Moore

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May 9, 2019, 5:49:17 PM5/9/19
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I took a brief but rather nice ride this afternoon between projects, choosing the 2003 errand Riv so I could pick up some books from the library, but also because after badmouthing it for a couple of year, I've recently been riding the S3X, but with freewheel (17 t, 48 t ring, 24.75" tire, 70-53-44 gi).

I'm out of shape for hills -- I generally ride mostly N-S along the River valley (at just about exactly 1 mile high; 4980 at lowest point near me, IIRC), which is dead flat, eking out my workload in strong southwestery winds.

So on the way to the library I decided to try a nice detour west of me toward Boca Negra canyon, and see what I could do to the short but sharp climb. In "hill shape" I can make it 2/3 of the way in a 67" gear on a light bike; but I've not yet cleared teh steepest part.

It went well. The grade starts out at 3 or 4% and then quickly steepens to 9 10, 13 before decreasing to 10 and then again 4 near the summit.

In shape I could easily do the steep bit in the 53" with effort, but the 44 allowed me to clear it -- standing, of course -- with only moderate exhaustion, so to speak: I was tired, but I could have done at least a bit more.

I'd love to replace the fw with a fixed cog, but 70" is just too low to spin at any downhills speed, and for me, at least, the huge lash is just too annoying to tolerate. So fw it is.

Segueing: Give me advice on hub gears with these qualities:

1. Lowest drag (my reading indicates that this is the AW or, at least, 3 speed hubs with single planetary systems; ami right?

2. Biggest gaps. Again, while I know that SA made very wide ratio hubs, the standard 3 speed today is 1.33, 1.0. 0.75 -- or have I missed one?

3. 130 or at least ~127 OL spacing.

4. 32 or 40 holes -- I want to use 32 hole rims, not 36.

5. Aluminum shell if possible.

6. Reputation for durability and reliability of operation -- doesn't creep out of adjustment and leave you straddling the top tube after it slips in 1st while you are honking hard and slow up a steep hill.

Cost is a very, very distant #7.

Thanks.

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lconley

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May 9, 2019, 6:43:36 PM5/9/19
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Low drag IGH + Wide Range + 135OLD + 32 hole + Reliable + aluminum + Cost Not Important = Rolhoff (even available in fancy anodized finish to match SON front dyno hubs)

Very expensive - you can get a new lugged Rivendell frame for the cost of a Rolhoff.

I have a Shimano 3 speed IGH - not recommended, a Nexus and two Alfine 8 speed hubs (belt drive), not really recommended either, but the less expensive Nexus works better (quieter) than either of the Alfines. I think I may need to disassemble the Alfines and re-lubricate - I have read that they do not necessarily come properly lubricated out of the box.

I also have a couple of Sturmey Archer 2 speed kickback coaster brake hubs - not recommended for going down steep hills.

Laing
Cocoa FL

Patrick Moore

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May 9, 2019, 8:02:55 PM5/9/19
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One more remark and I'll shut up. It has been, what, 13 years since the 2003 Curt was ridden with a freewheel, let alone multiple gears (I had local builder Dave Porter convert it to fixed in 2006, and apart from ~ 50 miles -- certainly fewer than 100 -- with the S3X after I first received it, it has been fixed all along). So these recent rides with the S3X and freewheel, giving a whopping 160% range with coasting, is really different, and quite honestly, fun in its own arcane way.

On today's ride, once I crossed Coors Blvd, I had a ~1 mile rolling climb where the steeper bits have me standing and breathing hard in the 70" cruising gear. Sitting to climb, mostly in the 52.5, but on the steepest section, the 43.75, was rather fascinating -- imagine being able to sit while climbing! The route flattened out at the park just across Golf Course, but thereafter, on the West side of the park, it climbed again, steepening as you go west. Rather fun.

Question -- repeat: Do any of you use the Alfine 8? How do you like it for drag, durability, and not slipping when under high torque?

Patrick Moore

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May 9, 2019, 8:07:05 PM5/9/19
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I don't agree; someone else pointed out the RS RF3 or somesuch which is basically an AW with aluminum shell, 129 OL spacing, and 32 holes. And the price I just saw -- #1,239.99 or so -- is certainly less than a Riv custom frame!

Why do you dislike the Shimano 3 speed and the Alfines? (Note: No interest in belts.)

The various kickbacks would be very worth considering, for my needs, except that high is overdrive, not direct; the reverse would suit me fine -- 70 and 51 would be very nice.

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lconley

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May 10, 2019, 10:04:25 AM5/10/19
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You do not have to buy a custom to get a lugged Riv frame, There are still non-TIGed production frames - Atlantis, etc.

The steel 3 speed Shimano is the only hub that I have ever had that broke spokes, but maybe it was the bike (Trek Belville).

The Alfines make a lot of noise (even brand new) and are sensitive to exact adjustment - the "indexing" takes place in the shifter, not the hub. The gear spacing is uneven. The hubs are the same for belt or chain, just different sprockets. I have been told that the top of the line Jagwire Slick-Lube liner housing helps with the shifting, but have not tried it yet.

Certain models of Bendix two speed hubs are direct drive top gear - the stripe color on the hub is how you can tell. Not sure which is the color indicates the underdrive models.

Laing
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Patrick Moore

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May 10, 2019, 11:32:18 AM5/10/19
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On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 8:04 AM lconley <lco...@brph.com> wrote:
You do not have to buy a custom to get a lugged Riv frame, There are still non-TIGed production frames - Atlantis, etc.

That's true. Still, any Rivendell model, stock or not, that I personally want, will cost more than a Rohlof -- which is not a big debating point, since the Rohlof price is still more than I care to pay (tho' I reserve the right to change my mind).

The steel 3 speed Shimano is the only hub that I have ever had that broke spokes, but maybe it was the bike (Trek Belville).

The only Shimano 3-speed hub I recall riding was that on my daughter's 24" wheel Electra Townie "3i"; that had a coaster brake and, honestly, was rather nice. I sometimes think that, but for aesthetic scruples, one of those would make a nice multiple gear + rear brake system for my 1999 Joe Starck custom fixie, which doesn't have a rear brake.
 
The Alfines make a lot of noise (even brand new) and are sensitive to exact adjustment - the "indexing" takes place in the shifter, not the hub. The gear spacing is uneven. The hubs are the same for belt or chain, just different sprockets. I have been told that the top of the line Jagwire Slick-Lube liner housing helps with the shifting, but have not tried it yet.

I'd be interested to hear of others' experience with the 8 speed Alfine. I've read quite a few reports on Der Web and on the whole the reports are positive; more so than for the 11. (Not that anyone really needs a 307% range, right?)
 

Certain models of Bendix two speed hubs are direct drive top gear - the stripe color on the hub is how you can tell. Not sure which is the color indicates the underdrive models.

I read up about those; unfortunately, the OL spacing and the spoking don't fit. Otherwise, they might be the ticket for an occasional rear wheel.

 
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