Red Toyo Atlantis?

[homer howzit]

I very curious about this bike. Honestly, I’ve just never seen a red Atlantis?

Does Anyone know what year this bike was made?

Thanx folks 

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/vallejo-rivendell-atlantis-58/7578102714.html

[Joe Bernard]

Early 2000s based on the pointy head lugs and it's a Toyo. Probably ordered with a custom color from D+D Painting, that's a nice bike. 

[Joe Bernard]

Update: My sense of the passage of time is a little murky these days..it's 2023?? I think the Toyo pointy-lug Atlantis may have been around 'til about 2010. Somewhere in that decade or shortly after the lugs got round, then construction moved to Waterford. 

[Greg]

Thank you Joe, obviously I recognize your name in reference to anything Atlantis on the Internet🙂

Before I drive up and look at this bike though I’m wondering if I’m 6’ (89 PBH) will a 57 Atlantis fit me… I have a 60 Homer that fits me good with albatross bars… but strangely I have a Koga Miyata world traveler 57 there’s my most comfortable bike of all time… Confused🤔

Do you think Rivendell 57 is smaller than the regular 57?

Appreciate you!

On Jan 30, 2023, at 12:29 PM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Update: My sense of the passage of time is a little murky these days..it's 2023?? I think the Toyo pointy-lug Atlantis may have been around 'til about 2010. Somewhere in that decade or shortly after the lugs got round, then construction moved to Waterford. 

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[Bill Schairer]

I purchased my Atlantis used in 2017.  It was advertised as a 58.  I measure it at about 57 c-c or 58 c-t.  Per the serial number, I believe the bike is a 2013 Waterford.  I am 6' also, have never figured my attempts at measuring pbh were too accurate but I think in your ballpark.  My more traditional horizontal, steel frames range from 59 (I feel a tad small) to 63 (a tad large).  I try to set my seat from pedal spindle to top of seat at about 37".  I've put just shy of 13,000 miles on my Atlantis and am very happy with it.  I'd definitely take an in person look at that bike.  I drove from San Diego to Pasadena to get mine, not something I would ordinarily do.

As to the issue of lugs, I am no expert at all but I can't really tell the difference between mine and the one under consideration.

Bill

San Diego

[maxcr]

I'm 5'11" with a 90-ish pbh and my 61 Atlantis feels great (for me). Fit is personal, so I agree that you should go see it, but I think the 58 might feel small.

Original geo below from http://notfine.com/rivreader/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Atlantis%2001.pdf

Max

[Joe Bernard]

I'll defer to the others about sizing, I think they've nailed it (and the listing now calls it a 58). 

Once again my murky memory has failed me. That Waterford has the same pointy head lugs as the red Toyo, somewhere along the line they got rounded off but it must have been later at Waterford. 

[Jeremy Till]

I *think* this bike was formerly owned by (former list member?) Gino Zahnd, as evidenced by this photo from 2013, which I faved at the time: 

https://flic.kr/p/f8fyGT

Gino does reference selling it in the comments on the photo.  

-Jeremy Till

Sacramento, CA

On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:27:02 AM UTC-8 homer...@gmail.com wrote:

[Greg]

Wow, you guys really are the source for all things Rivendell!!… I mean seriously, tracking down the original owner?… Smart!

Thanks to your assistance, I’ve decided to pass on this opportunity for the moment…

 I think I’m going to wait for a 60cm and honestly I need to sell or trade my Jones LBW first, not only for the Atlantis money, but more importantly just to keep my wife happy🙄🙂

Again, Thank You So Much!

“Maranatha”!

On Jan 31, 2023, at 12:42 PM, Jeremy Till <jerem...@gmail.com> wrote:

I *think* this bike was formerly owned by (former list member?) Gino Zahnd, as evidenced by this photo from 2013, which I faved at the time: 

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[J J]

This thread has been so interesting. That red Atlantis is gorgeous. If only it were the right size for me…

Check out the photos of various configurations and setups in this very early Atlantis brochure, which is all about Toyo production. There are pointy lugs and non-pointy lugs on the head tubes!

Joe, I would always bet on your Riv knowledge and memory, :) but based on this brochure it appears that the pointiness or roundedness of the lugs do not in themselves indicate a move to Waterford production. 

Very early Atlantis frames lacked braze-ons on the fork for racks, which Grant extolled as a virtue (see below). How times have changed! I’ve seen plenty of Atlantises with fork braze-ons, but I’m not sure when Grant changed his mind about it. 

“The racks cost about $120 each, but you can spend half that and still get a decent rack. Notice the front rack clamps on. Why no braze-on? Because different front racks have different braze-on locations, and we didn't want to rule out any front rack. The clamps work fine, and are compatible with any rack. Approximate price as shown, racks and all, about $2,600.”

The brochure has a cool photo of Tetsuya lshigaki in the act of brazing. Here’s a quote about Toyo:

“We don't cut corners with the Atlantis. The frame has not changed fundamentally since the first one in 2000. It was then and is still made in a six-person custom frame shop, called Toyo, in Osaka, Japan. Toyo has been hand-crafting superb, traditional bicycle frames for 30 years. It costs a lot to make anything in Japan these days—particularly when it involves human labor. But the quality of the Atlantis frame is superb, and the price—about $1,300–is way less than you'd expect to pay for a frame this good. The quality is what you'd expect out of Japan, and your Atlantis will likely last the rest of your life.”

Jim

[Bill Schairer]

I'm guessing saddle height is measured from center of BB to top of seat in that chart?  If that is the case, my bike, as pictured, is right at the upper limit per the sizing chart.  I measure from the pedal spindle since not all my bikes have the same length cranks.   I was initially a little concerned about it being too small but, as I've used it for some off pavement touring, figure the extra bit of standover isn't a bad thing at all.  Maybe I've just gotten used to the visual of it but it doesn't look too weird to me and I've had no trouble getting all the touch points where I want them.

A big consideration for me was the likelihood of finding a larger frame somewhat local in how much time. I decided the likelihood wasn't good.  No regrets.

Bill

San Diego

[Joe Bernard]

'Joe, I would always bet on your Riv knowledge and memory, :) but based on this brochure it appears that the pointiness or roundedness of the lugs do not in themselves indicate a move to Waterford production."

My memory ain't what it once was, Jim. You can count on me for accurate Riv lore unless I forgot!

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 4:10:41 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:

[iamkeith]

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 2:29:49 PM UTC-7 homer...@gmail.com wrote:

Wow, you guys really are the source for all things Rivendell!!… I mean seriously, tracking down the original owner?… Smart!

Thanks to your assistance, I’ve decided to pass on this opportunity for the moment…

 I think I’m going to wait for a 60cm and honestly I need to sell or trade my Jones LBW first, not only for the Atlantis money, but more importantly just to keep my wife happy🙄🙂

Again, Thank You So Much!

My hunch is that it'd be a tad too small, but wanted to add one more comment before you give up:  You mentioned wanting to wait for a 60cm, but there actually wasn't such a thing in this era Atlantis.  Even though they came in the normal-for-the-time 2 cm increments, there was an odd 3 cm jump between this one (58) and the next one (61).  Standover and some other dimensions took an odd turn at that increment.  You should fig up the old geometry charts from Jim's Cyclofied website to make sure it would work - or that this one wouldn't (assuming you have your heart set on this vintage.)

I remember this all too well, because I wanted one so badly, stared at the charts forever, and tried to rationalize buying one even though I fell squarely between sizes.  I was convinced it was some sort of conspiracy by Grant, that started with the missing size 57 cm XO-1 years earlier.  I never got the Atlantis, but did end up with a 60 Ram, a 60 quickbeam, a 60 Saluki and  60 All Rounder... because I couldn't have "the one."  They all fit me great, but the Atlantis just wouldn't have.  (FWIW, I'm 6'-1 1/2" and have an 87 PBH.  All torso)

[Miles]

Another Toyo Atlantis owner chiming in here, since this thread seems to be morphing into a good resource. I’m 6’0 with around an 87 PBH and my 58 feels perfect as my all-around gravel bike. I wouldn’t hesitate to tour it either. It might look smaller fit-wise than how Grant would size it, but I think it’s the perfect bike. 

[iamkeith]

Ooh!  Sorry to derail things but, Miles, what bars are those?  They look great.

[Mackenzy Albright]

Wow Miles - that may be the best looking Atlantis build I've seen. Love the (antelope hills?) and towel rack bars. 

[Bryan Dalik]

That is a wonderful, wonderful Toyo Atlantis. What size tires? Looking to see what max is. I got myself a custom orange Toyo Atlantis in a 58 as well and being 6'2'' with a 89 PBH, I'm happy to hear it fits so well for you.

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Ha! I'd forgotten about that. Gino has been been the temporary steward of a lot of very interesting bikes over the years... 

J

[Elton Lance]

I was the original owner of the red Atlantis and sold it to Gino.  

On a rainy commute home from Harris Cyclery, I was involved in a hit-and-run and the top tube was damaged.  I sent it to RBW and they took care of the repair (I don’t know who actually did the work for them).  Upon completion of the repair, I was asked by Mark (IIRC) what color I wanted and red was my choice.  It later survived a Rottweiler attack which left the bike unharmed but me not so much.  I’m better now. :)

Nothing other than the familiar lovely green was ever original to an Atlantis, as far as I know.

Elton Lance

Vero Beach, FL

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