How similar are the Bridgestone Atlantis (1), XO-1, All Rounder, Toyo Atlantis?

[NYCbikeguy]

I'd like to defer this question to all of you knowledgeable riv owners out there-

I want to know how these frames evolved, what's different/the same, and are there any modern equivalents in terms of frame geometry? and finally... what's stopping frame builders from building this sort of cross between road/MTB on 26 inch wheels?

pic for enjoyment. (insta @autodidactic_bikemechanic)

Best,

IY

[Jim M.]

Great looking bike! 

Bridgestone Atlantis was pre-Grant, designed by a Bridgestone employee in Japan who took inspiration from French constructeurs, so a different kind of bike than the others you mentioned. There's a Riv Reader article about it that I cannot find at the moment but will post later.

Why no more? No one has raced one since John Stamstad, no demand, steel and 559 wheels are dead? All of the above? 

jim mather

walnut creek

[Jim M.]

Ah, here it is on Cyclofiend's website: 

http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr35_pg46.jpg

http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/rbw/rr35_pg47.jpg

[ian m]

There are similar bikes that can run 26" wheels due to using disc brakes. The Velo Orange Polyvalent comes to mind. As much as I love the 26er I don't see anyone outside of custom builds combining that wheel size and rim brakes anymore

[ian m]

Seems like a decent number of options in the 26+ realm also, like the Crust Evasion and new Stridsland Beachcomber. Can't speak to geometry on those tho

[Bill Lindsay]

"what's stopping frame builders from building this sort of cross between road/MTB on 26 inch wheels?"

Clients not ordering them.  That's what's stopping them.  A frame builder will likely build you one if you order it!

BL in EC

On Tuesday, March 12, 2024 at 2:22:57 PM UTC-7 NYCbikeguy wrote:

[Johnny Alien]

The original Clem used 26" on the smallest size. I don't ride a frame that small but I liked that the wheel size changed with every size. Part of me still wants a Heron or XO or something with a 26" wheel. Its a small part though.

[DavidP]

"what's stopping frame builders from building this sort of cross between road/MTB on 26 inch wheels?"

Handsome Cycles did two runs of an XO-1 replica, the XOXO, in 2012 and 2021. Neither sold like hot cakes. 

I picked up a 2012 frame in 2014 when they started looking like they might sell out. 

Most of its years were as an all rounder with 1.8s and fenders, then it spent some time as kind of an ATB with 2.2s:

The latest configuration is back to the all rounder but it now has Albatross bars and will be getting a front rack and basket.

As for modern bikes that are roadish and take large tires - there are quite a few, due to the gravel thing, but they are 650b these days. But like Ian said, go with a disc brake frame and you can build up a 26" wheelset for it.

Just a few examples:

Brother Cycles Mr Wooden is a 650b rim brake bike that will take 50mm tires.

Crust has the Romanceur in canti (27.5x2.2) or disc (26x2.4 or 275.x2.2).

-Dave

[NYCbikeguy]

Thanks for all of your wisdom, advice, and suggestions!

Special thanks to Jim for the links to the old readers! The story on the BS Atlantis was illuminating!

I had no clue about the Handsome XOXOs! I've seen them on ebay and CL before, but never batted an eye at them.

Now, I'll keep an eye out in my size to stock as a traveler/backup perhaps.

One day, I may have a custom frame with comparable geometries to XO-1/AR/Toyo Atlantis made with a few tweaks:

threadless fork/headset system

proper kickstand plate

dual canti/disc brake options

more braze ons for racks

ornate lugs! (refer to Wilbury head tube lugs. pics attached)

I'll have to budget properly for that dream to come true one day. I'll just need Joe Bell to stay healthy, well, and in business to work his magic on the frame by the time I save up for that custom. hah!

Thanks again, ya'll

-IY

[Steven Sweedler]

Here is a pic of my Tom Matchak 26” wheeled custom tourer, received last summer. 

Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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[Brian Turner]

You know I’m here for this discussion. From what I’ve read, the AR and Grant’s Atlantis 2 built upon the concept of the XO-1, but made them more versatile bikes with more features. I see very little difference in the All Rounder and the 26” Toyo / Waterford Atlantis models like mine:

[Patrick Moore]

Lovely. It's interesting to hear about and see photos of other recent 26" wheel bikes that aren't old mountain bikes.

Question: how do others compare the XO-1 (I take it that this is the best of the Grant-era Bridgestone XOs) with later 26" wheel Rivendell models? My own impression from years of riding a 1992 XO1 and then riding 3 custom 26" wheel Riv Roads and now a 26" wheel Matthews near clone of those customer Rivs is that the XOs were early, "primitive" (pejorative sense, "later" meaning "improvements") expressions of an idea that have been vastly improved upon as Grant's design ideas matured. Discounting fit -- comparing customs with production model -- the Rivs cornered better on pavement while being more stable -- handling was more precise; and didn't plow as much in loose dirt (well, don't recall the 1995 on dirt, but the 2 later ones and the Matthews clone). These 3 customs became my handling benchmark and were in fact the reason I sold on a second gen Ram and a first gen Sam.

Don't get me wrong: My XO1 was a decent bike, but IMO not outstanding. I rode it in several different builds for different purposes and, IME, the handling was an even B and no more. The customs, first a 1995 modeled on the All Rounder but with road tubing, slightly steeper head, then the further improved later ones with longer stays, sloped tts and higher heads/steerers, and slightly slacker head angle, all were much better in handling than, and at least as comfortable as, the 1992 XO1. Add to this the big sizing gaps and the low stack (I rode a 55 cm; the seat tube on a 59 was too long; the 59 was the closest fit for my brother, 4" taller).The Ram and even the Sam also handled noticeably better, the Ram better than the Sam.

Personal needs and choices, of course, but I'd be interested to hear from those who have ridden an XO? and a later Rivendell 26" model: How do you compare them in handling on pavement and on dirt?

On Wed, Mar 13, 2024 at 5:36 AM Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote:

You know I’m here for this discussion. From what I’ve read, the AR and Grant’s Atlantis 2 built upon the concept of the XO-1, but made them more versatile bikes with more features. I see very little difference in the All Rounder and the 26” Toyo / Waterford Atlantis models like mine:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALimyf%2BTXvwYYxMbHysAdSA2no6vgrG5uAV4tVqec6denAurKg%40mail.gmail.com.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[Ian A]

Tastes have changed. Disc brakes opened up a lot of design options for randonneurs and touring bikes, making real rough stuff much more manageable.  I have no intention of trading in my thin walled rSogn 650b rim brake or my beloved and much abused Marinoni Turismo. But I bought the Marinoni used in 2008 and the rSogn a number of years ago too now. Would I buy the same if starting from scratch today? Not sure about that. I have used the Marinoni for a lot rough stuff style touring and was seriously underbiked in those times (all part of the fun and misery!). If I want to take on the Baja Divide, I know the Marinoni just simply wouldn't be appropriate, but there are many modern disc designs that could handle it with aplomb.

I love my two 26" bikes as well and have been stockpiling rims and even brake pads to keep them in service. There are just so few options left in keeping non-disc 26" bikes on the road, despite it being a versatile, strong, light and awesome wheel size. The same can be said for 650b rim brakes. Sometimes it's just more practical to follow the herd. Sometimes the herd's got a point.

IanA Alberta Canada

[Bernard Duhon]

My Waterford custom 26 inch rim brake

The speck sheet said “Atlantis” build

I always thought they were copying  Riv specs

Now I know it’s the Bridgestone specs

Btw that’s my “winter” ride.

PICT could be down the road from Brian’s ride😎🚴

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From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ian A <atte...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2024 12:24:14 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [RBW] Re: How similar are the Bridgestone Atlantis (1), XO-1, All Rounder, Toyo Atlantis?

 

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[ian m]

On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 1:24:14 PM UTC-4 Ian A wrote:

I love my two 26" bikes as well and have been stockpiling rims and even brake pads to keep them in service. There are just so few options left in keeping non-disc 26" bikes on the road, despite it being a versatile, strong, light and awesome wheel size.

The first wheelset I built myself has Riv prototype hubs (Velocity made? Maybe Bitex) laced to 26" ceramic Mavic rims and I didn't think I'd want to switch to 26" disc wheels until I found myself trying to find ceramic brake pads for the v-brakes and paid a dumb amount for some.

[Philip Williamson]

I would bet that it was a Riv spec, not a Bridgestone spec. 

Philip

[Bernard Duhon]

The wheels on the Waterford pict were purchased from Nashbar during a clearance for $150.00 w/ shipping a long time ago.  I use them to bomb around town etc & swap out to my Dt Swiss for touring.

For a while I felt bad about buying & riding em.  Now I am glad to be able to “save” my real touring 26” wheels for when I need em.     

I only wish the 2 rims were the same width, I have to reset the cable when I switch them out.

 

I have adjusters at the lever & the Noodle.  Any suggestions for major brake adjustment

 

Bernard

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of ian m
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2024 8:52 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [RBW] Re: How similar are the Bridgestone Atlantis (1), XO-1, All Rounder, Toyo Atlantis?

 

On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 1:24:14 PM UTC-4 Ian A wrote:

I love my two 26" bikes as well and have been stockpiling rims and even brake pads to keep them in service. There are just so few options left in keeping non-disc 26" bikes on the road, despite it being a versatile, strong, light and awesome wheel size.

 

The first wheelset I built myself has Riv prototype hubs (Velocity made? Maybe Bitex) laced to 26" ceramic Mavic rims and I didn't think I'd want to switch to 26" disc wheels until I found myself trying to find ceramic brake pads for the v-brakes and paid a dumb amount for some.

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[Brian Turner]

I feel ya on that one, Bernard. I too have a couple of wheelsets for my 26" Atlantis and there's two different sets of tires I enjoy running on that bike. Rims are different widths of course so it's a question of, which is the least amount of hassle: swapping out tires on the one wheelset, or swapping wheels and readjusting the brakes each time? My other issue is that one wheelset is built up with a dyno hub and the other isn't, so I have to find a way to secure the light wiring if I'm not using the dyno hub set. AGH! I'm not at the point yet where I want to spring for an additional matching wheelset, though!

Brian

Lexington KY

[Bernard Duhon]

So maybe a third  and fourth cable adjuster mid run along the top tube😎🚴

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From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2024 11:06:43 AM

To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: [RBW] Re: Major v brake adjustment

 

I feel ya on that one, Bernard. I too have a couple of wheelsets for my 26" Atlantis and there's two different sets of tires I enjoy running on that bike. Rims are different widths of course so it's a question of, which is the least amount of hassle: swapping out tires on the one wheelset, or swapping wheels and readjusting the brakes each time? My other issue is that one wheelset is built up with a dyno hub and the other isn't, so I have to find a way to secure the light wiring if I'm not using the dyno hub set. AGH! I'm not at the point yet where I want to spring for an additional matching wheelset, though!

Brian

Lexington KY

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[NYCbikeguy]

I feel like there can be some convenient use of da vinchi splitters on the segments where the cable is exposed. Not sure how practical it will be, but I usually undo the cable splitters on my coupled bikes to take my wheel on and off, instead of tweaking with brakes and tire pressure. 

[Jerry Lynn]

Not sure if Im the sole outlier here - but I rather enjoy the XO-1’s steeper road geometry. I spent years racing BMX, as well as, CX making technical singletrack sessions on my XO-1 so much fun. I also love the playful nature of 26”  wheels - not to mention the improved cornering and acceleration. 

That said, I would love to get my hands on an Atlantis/Toyo as my passion for touring is growing with each day.

[NYCbikeguy]

That's the CLEANEST XO-1 I've ever seen! Not even a scratch on the paint!

What a treat!

[Jerry Lynn]

Thank you - it's only 2 years old as I bought it NOS from a mom-n-pop bike shop (yes, it was stored and untouched for 27 years). I removed all the OEM parts and safely stored them. I then swapped the parts from my "older" XO-1 to the NOS. My "older" XO-1 looked good from afar, but was far from good. I rode it pretty hard for over 15 years, rain or shine. I filled in the dents, had it powder-coated and rode for another year until I stumbled on the NOS XO-1.